. >> 11-year-old paul hartness is trapped, sandwiched between two huge boulders in a crack just a few inches wide. >> oh, poor kid. jesus. >> rescuer tom jones quickly understands the thing the boy needs to do most to survive, keep breathing, is the very thing putting him in even more danger. >> he was like farther and farther down into that crevice with every breath he took. obviously, if the chest cannot expand, you suffocate. >> he's so close rescuers can talk to him, even touch him, but they can't get him out. they know if they don't act fast, they'll watch this child die before their very own eyes. >> i'm trying but it hurts. >> the first thing we did was build rigging below him just to make sure he didn't slip down any farther. >> next, tom smith with the l.a. sheriff's department is able to slip a rope around paul from above, and he starts pulling. >> i was pulling on him so hard that i couldn't believe it. it should have lifted someone twice his size. >> is it doing anything? >> no. >> paul is wedged in so tight rescuers worry if they pull too hard, they'll yank an arm right o

. >> gosh, what r why have are we talking to paul all this time? >> and john hart said he's a four star general in the war on poverty. what's the big take away you've seen, bob, as you've led paul around. >> first of all, to the question why do we have such poverty? well, the $20 trillion we spent over the last 50 years, 70 cents of every dollar goes to the people who serve poor people so we have created a commodity out of poor people where there are structural disincentives for people to rise out of poverty. what we should be doing and i'm taking paul around every month for about two years into those drug-infested, crime-ridden neighborhoods where he's seeing redemption and action that poor people have got to be an agent of their own transformation. the solutions to poverty exist not by paying some paid professionals to parachute in remedies but go in and go to the people with the solutions and that's what paul -- we're trying to turn policy around so that the people suffering the problems become agents of their own uplift. >> bob, john heilemann here we've now ta