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pence's chief of staff and others bravely testified, but pence didn't. so this is really pretty critical information. i sure hope pence tells the truth and doesn't claim not to remember and stuff because it is as important something that happened in our lifetime as anything. a violent assault on the capitol while donald trump was in power, while he's claiming all sorts of things to spur up the crowd, the like, ordering the removing of metal detectors and things like that. you know, we all need to get to the bottom of what exactly happened. >> it's hugely significant. you and i have had conversations before and done our own legal analysis and real time reporting as this has evolved from the january 6th committee, from what we've learned. i think it's very fair to say what was initially widely viewed as this shorter span of an event, which is why trump was impeached largely over the, quote, incitement speech that day has expanded as more evidence has become available of this multi-month plot. as you're reminding viewers, mike pence who has to tell someone
pence's chief of staff and others bravely testified, but pence didn't. so this is really pretty critical information. i sure hope pence tells the truth and doesn't claim not to remember and stuff because it is as important something that happened in our lifetime as anything. a violent assault on the capitol while donald trump was in power, while he's claiming all sorts of things to spur up the crowd, the like, ordering the removing of metal detectors and things like that. you know, we all need...
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pence did not budge. president trump called pence around 10 am on january 6th as pence met with marc short and greg jacob. pence excused himself to take the call upstairs, alone. i'm heading to the capitol soon, pence told trump. i told you i'd sleep on it, i would take a look with my team. i'll hear any objections and evidence. but when i go to capitol the, i will do my job. mike, this is not right, trump said, calling from the oval office. mike, you can do this. i'm counting on you to do it. if you don't do it, i picked the wrong man four years ago. you are going to wimp out, trump said. his anger was visible to others in the oval office including his daughter, ivanka. the next time mike pence told his story, it was for money in his book titled, so help me god. here is mike pence's book account of that phone call from donald trump on the morning of january 6th. and this account heavily overlaps with, including some quoted lines, with bob woodward and robert costa's account. the pence book says, when the
pence did not budge. president trump called pence around 10 am on january 6th as pence met with marc short and greg jacob. pence excused himself to take the call upstairs, alone. i'm heading to the capitol soon, pence told trump. i told you i'd sleep on it, i would take a look with my team. i'll hear any objections and evidence. but when i go to capitol the, i will do my job. mike, this is not right, trump said, calling from the oval office. mike, you can do this. i'm counting on you to do it....
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it was an idea that pence ultimately rejected, now smith wants pence to turn over documents specifically related to january six investigation, and to give testimony about his interactions with trump around the time of the election and leading up to the insurrection. pence is not the only former trump administration official to receive a subpoena this week. the special counsel also subpoenaed former national security adviser, robert o'brien, in relation to both the january 6th investigation and a matter of classified documents. meanwhile, pence is dealing with his own classified document situation. yesterday the fbi conducted a five hour search of pence's home in indiana. pence and his legal team have agreed to the search beforehand, following the elevation last month at the former vice president was still in possession of classified records. as a result of yesterday search, authorities found one additional classified document on pence's property, plus six other pages without classification markings. a lot to unpack. now, joining me to discuss all of this, nbc senior national politics rep
it was an idea that pence ultimately rejected, now smith wants pence to turn over documents specifically related to january six investigation, and to give testimony about his interactions with trump around the time of the election and leading up to the insurrection. pence is not the only former trump administration official to receive a subpoena this week. the special counsel also subpoenaed former national security adviser, robert o'brien, in relation to both the january 6th investigation and...
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second, you asked, is it possible, pence is trying, trump is trying to win over pence?t's always possible. but, i think your first theory has a little more strength. which is, donald trump is worried about his classified records, exposure right now. this is a case that is probably causing the former president the most sleepless nights because it's the easiest case to establish that he was engaged in potential obstruction of a subpoena. seeking classified records, remember, his team asserted to the department of justice that they've done a diligent surge and all the records have been returned. and then the fbi agents coming at the department of justice's best, and one bullet hole, they find a lot of classified records. , so i think donald trump, who is often focus on donald trump it's mostly excited to say, look, pence had them to. he's a good guy. he didn't do anything wrong, seen here. >> silly me. i thought it could be long gone for the january 6th investigations. but, of course, i think you are right, carol leonnig, it's the most obvious answer, which is he's just tr
second, you asked, is it possible, pence is trying, trump is trying to win over pence?t's always possible. but, i think your first theory has a little more strength. which is, donald trump is worried about his classified records, exposure right now. this is a case that is probably causing the former president the most sleepless nights because it's the easiest case to establish that he was engaged in potential obstruction of a subpoena. seeking classified records, remember, his team asserted to...
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hang mike pence! hang mike pence! hang mike pence! hang mike pence! hang mike pence! >> unforgettable images of that they show pence in his family ending up in a loading dock under the capitol complex. during the committee hearing we heard testimony about the danger to pants and the president's response. >> the vice president made several calls to check on the safety of others. it was his own life that was in great danger. mr. jacob, did donald trump ever called the vice president to check on his safety? >> he did not. >> mr. jacob, how did vice president pence and mrs. pence react to that? >> with frustration. >> i remember pat saying to him something to the effect of the rioters got to the capitol and we need to go see the president. now i remember pat say something to the effect of, mark, we need to do something. more than they are literally calling for the vice president to be effing hung. and mark had responded something to the effect of, you heard it, pat, he thinks mike deserves it. he doesn't think they're doing anything wrong. >> the select c
hang mike pence! hang mike pence! hang mike pence! hang mike pence! hang mike pence! >> unforgettable images of that they show pence in his family ending up in a loading dock under the capitol complex. during the committee hearing we heard testimony about the danger to pants and the president's response. >> the vice president made several calls to check on the safety of others. it was his own life that was in great danger. mr. jacob, did donald trump ever called the vice president...
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vice president pence was there. in fact, vice president pence encouraged the debate. he said the debate is something that needed to happen and laid out his plans to entertain that. unfortunately, violence and riots obstructed the work that we wanted to do. >> violence got in the way. that's the same argument used by trump aide peter navaro. the argument was that these plotters had a peaceful plan to still steal the election, but that it didn't involve violence. and then the attack interfered with their bloodless coup plan. well, the special counsel can probe that claim, and look at what pence says about what he told the people on your screen and others, and what was covered in the meetings. what will pence say about who was pushing him to be a co-conspirator? is there any link to what pence faced and observed and why this matters, at least six of the people that we know about seen on your screen, later, according to multiple republican witnesses, tried to get themselves pardons. that's an unusual and a damning development that suggests they might be charged with somet
vice president pence was there. in fact, vice president pence encouraged the debate. he said the debate is something that needed to happen and laid out his plans to entertain that. unfortunately, violence and riots obstructed the work that we wanted to do. >> violence got in the way. that's the same argument used by trump aide peter navaro. the argument was that these plotters had a peaceful plan to still steal the election, but that it didn't involve violence. and then the attack...
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second, you asked is it possible pence is trying -- forgive me, trump is trying to win over pence. it's always possible, but i think your first theory has a little more strength, which is donald trump is worried about his classified records exposure right now. this is a case that is probably causing the former president the most sleepless nights because it's the easiest case to establish that he was engaged in potential obstruction of a subpoena seeking classified records. remember his team asserted to the department of justice that they'd done a diligent search and all the records had been returned, and then the fbi agents come in at the department of justice's behest and lo and behold they find a bunch of classified records. so i think donald trump who's often focused on donald trump is mostly excited to say, look, pence has them, too, he's a good guy, he didn't do wrong, same here. >> silly me, i thought it could be long for the january 6th investigations, but of course i think you're right, carol, it's the most obvious answer which is he's just trying to mitigate potential dama
second, you asked is it possible pence is trying -- forgive me, trump is trying to win over pence. it's always possible, but i think your first theory has a little more strength, which is donald trump is worried about his classified records exposure right now. this is a case that is probably causing the former president the most sleepless nights because it's the easiest case to establish that he was engaged in potential obstruction of a subpoena seeking classified records. remember his team...
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to a grand jury what mark short believes when he told pence the secret service agent that pence's lifel be in danger 24 hours later. >> i think it is a certainty that they would have asked him those questions. we don't know which of the secret service witnesses, potential witnesses might have testified. it is not clear whether their witnesses or considered something else in this investigation. there are a lot of people that you could go to and ask the question what do you think mike pence thought but as a prosecutor, the question i want to ask is, mike pence, what did you think? what did you understand? >> wouldn't the most, in terms of the most powerful fruitful thing for the government in this be, and i'm just making this up, pence saying basically trump said to me i know we lost, i know there is no place for me, but go ahead and do this. you could become president after me, i'll make you president. it is something that where you have trump admitting that what he's doing is wrong. and that he doesn't really have a legal path. is that the kind of thing that would be the sort of home r
to a grand jury what mark short believes when he told pence the secret service agent that pence's lifel be in danger 24 hours later. >> i think it is a certainty that they would have asked him those questions. we don't know which of the secret service witnesses, potential witnesses might have testified. it is not clear whether their witnesses or considered something else in this investigation. there are a lot of people that you could go to and ask the question what do you think mike pence...
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. >> the pence subpoena. what really happened between trump and his vice president in the days leading up to january 6th? and could this be a signal that we are nearing the end of the special counsel investigation of donald trump? also tonight, reproductive rights under threat. again. the right wing trump nominated judge who could single-handedly ban abortion pills nationwide. >>> plus, students in alabama said they were told to censor their black history month program and leave out all the uncomfortable stuff like slavery and civil rights as the right continues to target black history. >> we begin tonight with former vice president mike pence weighing his response to a new subpoena from special counsel jack smith. that subpoena is related to the investigation into donald trump's failed attempts to stay in power after losing his bid for re-election in 2020 according to a source familiar with the matter. pence is the highest level person in trump's orbit to face a subpoena and perhaps the single most important
. >> the pence subpoena. what really happened between trump and his vice president in the days leading up to january 6th? and could this be a signal that we are nearing the end of the special counsel investigation of donald trump? also tonight, reproductive rights under threat. again. the right wing trump nominated judge who could single-handedly ban abortion pills nationwide. >>> plus, students in alabama said they were told to censor their black history month program and leave...
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pence has critical information. he's probably frame the subpoena to maximize his legal chances, and that means stuff that you can't get from anyone else. that's first and foremost the one-on-one conversations on the phone and one in the wing of the oval office where trump does a merciless pressure campaign to get him to break the law. >> mary, what do you think? >> just going to that last point that harry made, it's my understanding that the merciless campaign and at last call around 11:30 on january 6th is one that the vice president took alone without an aide there, and so that means there is no one else who can supply to jack smith evidence of what the president said and what vice president pence said back to the president at the time. now we have seen some clips from president trump's side of that call, but they were not complete, and so that is, i think, some critical testimony. and ultimately if this is challenged on executive privilege grounds, which we can talk about, of course, in more detail, it will come
pence has critical information. he's probably frame the subpoena to maximize his legal chances, and that means stuff that you can't get from anyone else. that's first and foremost the one-on-one conversations on the phone and one in the wing of the oval office where trump does a merciless pressure campaign to get him to break the law. >> mary, what do you think? >> just going to that last point that harry made, it's my understanding that the merciless campaign and at last call...
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but there is a huge break between trump and pence, and if pence's gonna win the republican nomination's part because he's won the argument within the republican party of what happened on january six. it was unconscionable. you've heard him say is not publicly. if he goes to testify, i think he has more equity to think about than just donald trump. you know as the former vice president of the united states, if somebody wants to be president himself, you know there's a lot of -- among positions for the rights of the officeholders, the rights of the institution. he may not want to set a president where there is any legal way over this. >> all right, thank you very much, and feces jon allen, from washington d.c.. i appreciate you spending your saturday morning with us. now mike pence's legal predicament is happening as the former vice president is rumored to be considering, as we mentioned, a presidential bid in 2024. that would pit him against donald trump, his former boss, who is also the subject of a special counsel's investigation for which pence has been subpoenaed. joining me now is
but there is a huge break between trump and pence, and if pence's gonna win the republican nomination's part because he's won the argument within the republican party of what happened on january six. it was unconscionable. you've heard him say is not publicly. if he goes to testify, i think he has more equity to think about than just donald trump. you know as the former vice president of the united states, if somebody wants to be president himself, you know there's a lot of -- among positions...
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all of this will hang over mike pence.ho might want to run for president will make. this is sort of the bad news bears in terms of donald trump and mike pence and everybody who was involved with that in and around the donald trump presidency. maybe there's time for some new blood. >> he's moving quickly, jack smith. >> the special counsel is moving quickly and frankly he has to because we're heading into -- it's early in 2023, but we are heading into an election. and that's going to make -- making calculations for the special counsel much, much harder. i think the stakes as david points out have never been hire. for history, this investigation into january 6th is absolutely paramount. i don't think we should lose sight of that as we coffer it in political terms. >> much more on the breaking news right after this. inspired by, created for and powered by you. ♪ if we use kevin's college fund, we can afford this house. the house whisperer! this house says use realtor.com to find options within your budget. good lk young man.
all of this will hang over mike pence.ho might want to run for president will make. this is sort of the bad news bears in terms of donald trump and mike pence and everybody who was involved with that in and around the donald trump presidency. maybe there's time for some new blood. >> he's moving quickly, jack smith. >> the special counsel is moving quickly and frankly he has to because we're heading into -- it's early in 2023, but we are heading into an election. and that's going to...
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mike pence is a critical component of that. it was trying to persuade mike pence, publicly, privately, on twitter and at the rally to thwart the counting of the votes. to abuse his power, i think all of those questions that carole just said go to donald trump's knowledge of fraud, and intent to persuade mike pence to abuse his power. if that could be proven, you need not even prove that donald trump incited the insurrection. i think that's gonna stand or fall based on some of the facts that are already known. i think the committee did something really interesting with regard to that theory. which is not so much the speed -- of the ellipse. but the failure to do anything for three hours. and making the tweet that says, mike pence didn't have the courage to do what was necessary. we demand answers. which fuels on the fire, and renewed the vigor of the protesters and causing them to start shopping, hang mike pence. the things that donald trump said to mike pence, that could reveal whether he knew he actually lost the election. and
mike pence is a critical component of that. it was trying to persuade mike pence, publicly, privately, on twitter and at the rally to thwart the counting of the votes. to abuse his power, i think all of those questions that carole just said go to donald trump's knowledge of fraud, and intent to persuade mike pence to abuse his power. if that could be proven, you need not even prove that donald trump incited the insurrection. i think that's gonna stand or fall based on some of the facts that are...
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pence's team had been talking to the justice department.epartment had reached out to pence seeking to speak to him. that was never likely to happen without a subpoena. it's not clear that pence is jumping at this opportunity. he talked about a number of these events in his book. there are many more detailed questions the justice department would like to ask. i think we are going to get into a lengthy. he he cann iveexecutive privile. >> will pence claim executive privilege when asked about his conversations with trump, especially after he writes about those conversations in the book that came out a few months ago? >> when he is eventually taken before the grand jury and interviewed in the course of the investigation under oath, i think it really will depend on the specific questions. it's going to be very lawyerly the way this plays out in terms of specific statements that will have to be parsed between what was in his book, what he has spoken about publically, what he has said in any other interviews or communications and then if there's a
pence's team had been talking to the justice department.epartment had reached out to pence seeking to speak to him. that was never likely to happen without a subpoena. it's not clear that pence is jumping at this opportunity. he talked about a number of these events in his book. there are many more detailed questions the justice department would like to ask. i think we are going to get into a lengthy. he he cann iveexecutive privile. >> will pence claim executive privilege when asked...
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what was he telling pence? what did pence tell him? there is no way you can have an indictment unless they get that evidence on a grand jury, in a subpoena, and lock in mike pence. they have to know what he was going to say, if they should go ahead and indict donald trump. >> one more question. can pence refuse a subpoena by the special counsel? . >> he can try to refuse. he can be held in contempt. he can be forced to testify. he can claim executive privilege. that ship has already passed. i think that pat cipollone was already in there before the grand jury. that issue of executive privilege has been litigated in the district of columbia. so i don't see that he has any room here other than to go in, tell the truth, and cooperate. >> natasha? your thoughts? >> i wonder about the lack of willingness to just cooperate. it seems as if mike pence wants to walk this tight rope between still being loyal to trump, still being seen as a hero in this moment. and you wonder why. what is it that he's still holding on to after all this time consi
what was he telling pence? what did pence tell him? there is no way you can have an indictment unless they get that evidence on a grand jury, in a subpoena, and lock in mike pence. they have to know what he was going to say, if they should go ahead and indict donald trump. >> one more question. can pence refuse a subpoena by the special counsel? . >> he can try to refuse. he can be held in contempt. he can be forced to testify. he can claim executive privilege. that ship has already...
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what would the options be for pence?ht he also exert an executive privilege? >> so the best course for him is to comply and continue the mike pence i'm a hero, i resisted on january 6th leaving the capitol and i did what the constitution requires of me and now i'm doing what the constitution requires of me again and i'm testifying. but if former president trump asserts executive privilege, pence can't assert it himself. the president has to assert it. the president asserts it, then mike pence can say, court, let me know if that privilege is availing or whether the grand jury subpoena trumps that assertion of executive privilege, and if so, i will come in and testify. he could say let the court decide and tell me what the best thing to do is. either way, i will come in if required. >> the fact that there is a subpoena, what does that tell you about the direction of the investigation? >> well, it tells us this is an ongoing criminal inquiry, that this is not some civil type of inquiry to determine whether or not there need
what would the options be for pence?ht he also exert an executive privilege? >> so the best course for him is to comply and continue the mike pence i'm a hero, i resisted on january 6th leaving the capitol and i did what the constitution requires of me and now i'm doing what the constitution requires of me again and i'm testifying. but if former president trump asserts executive privilege, pence can't assert it himself. the president has to assert it. the president asserts it, then mike...
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many of pence's aides have, already, testified. their testimony, implementing similar executive privilege type issues, and is likely to me that some of the grand jury the, seal reporting we have seen, that some of those considerations involves the same issues. the courts may dispense with it quickly, and pence may be in front of a grand journey sooner rather than later. >> how the fbi are finding an additional document and pence's discussion during this consensual search. when you think this leaves garland? does the doj end up with the special counsel's? >> the special counsel regulations say that you should appoint a special council if there is something criminal to investigate. so far no evidence of criminality with mike pence, of course, that is true for president biden. the council there is a point of political appearances, and you don't have to continue to make the same mistake, there is no need to appoint a special counsel for mike pence. >> i'm always happy to have you, but to have you in person on a night like this, what a
many of pence's aides have, already, testified. their testimony, implementing similar executive privilege type issues, and is likely to me that some of the grand jury the, seal reporting we have seen, that some of those considerations involves the same issues. the courts may dispense with it quickly, and pence may be in front of a grand journey sooner rather than later. >> how the fbi are finding an additional document and pence's discussion during this consensual search. when you think...
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were found in pence's home.t a day after pence was subpoenaed by special counsel jack smith. his investigation into former president trump and his efforts to overturn the 2020 election. joining me now is nbc news senior national correspondent jonathan, to help us unravel those massive a ball of entanglement here. jonathan, what is the latest on the additional classified folder that trump's legal team handed over to the justice department? >> we are still trying to figure out what might have been in that folder, corey, obviously everybody is searching their homes. searching their second homes, their third homes. their offices. the fbi is searching everybody's homes and 30 homes. who was in government in recent years, what they are trying to figure out is more and more stuff is classified, and you know, until we know the content of that folder, it's hard to make a judgment other than you are not supposed to have classified material outside of a classified setting. >> right, how far does this go? how many other doc
were found in pence's home.t a day after pence was subpoenaed by special counsel jack smith. his investigation into former president trump and his efforts to overturn the 2020 election. joining me now is nbc news senior national correspondent jonathan, to help us unravel those massive a ball of entanglement here. jonathan, what is the latest on the additional classified folder that trump's legal team handed over to the justice department? >> we are still trying to figure out what might...
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. >>> outfront next, pence subpoenaed. the special counsel investigating trump's efforts to overturn the election making a major move tonight. will pence cooperate. >>> plus, new reporting. biden has a new obsession. the president zeroing in on a certain republican. >>> and senator john fetterman still hospitalized tonight after feeling lightheaded. it comes after fetterman suffered a massive stroke last year. fellow stroke survivor randy travis is outfront tonight to talk about his road to recovery. let's go outfront. >>> good evening. welcome to all. this is a special edition of outfront. i'm erin burnett. new tonight, the special counsel with a major move. former vice president mike pence has been subpoenaed. special counsel jack smith calling in pence has part of his criminal investigation into trump's efforts to overturn the 2020 election. of course pence was there that day and in all the days before and after. and on that day, the mob threatened to hang him. remember that? and he was at the heart of trump's efforts t
. >>> outfront next, pence subpoenaed. the special counsel investigating trump's efforts to overturn the election making a major move tonight. will pence cooperate. >>> plus, new reporting. biden has a new obsession. the president zeroing in on a certain republican. >>> and senator john fetterman still hospitalized tonight after feeling lightheaded. it comes after fetterman suffered a massive stroke last year. fellow stroke survivor randy travis is outfront tonight to...
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pence declined to comment on the matter. joining me now, nbc senior legal correspondent laura jarrett, garrett haake and the former deputy assistant attorney general harry lipman. i want to play what we heard from pence in an interview about president trump on january 6. >> the president's words were reckless and his actions were reckless. the president's words that day at the rally endangered me and my family and everyone at the capitol building. >> he has been critical of trump's actions during that period of time. he also provided a bit of legal wiggle room for the president saying he thinks he didn't break the law. take us through these most recent developments with pence and the special counsel and what this means. >> that's right. in another interview, pence said he doesn't think it's illegal for president trump to have followed bad legal advice. there are entities trying to get mike pence's testimony since the moment january 6 ended. the january 6 committee did try to pursue his testimony. they subpoenaed him. he said
pence declined to comment on the matter. joining me now, nbc senior legal correspondent laura jarrett, garrett haake and the former deputy assistant attorney general harry lipman. i want to play what we heard from pence in an interview about president trump on january 6. >> the president's words were reckless and his actions were reckless. the president's words that day at the rally endangered me and my family and everyone at the capitol building. >> he has been critical of trump's...
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not mike pence's aides, just pence himself. that's one point. the other is it signals they're close to the end of the investigation. typically prosecutors want to approach the people at the highest levels after they have learned as much as they can about the case. they have talked to everyone else they can talk to. they have read every other document, and all that's left is the people in the closest inner circles. it says to me they are getting very close to the end. >> do you have in your experience, what sort of time line that could be. does that mean a few months, a few weeks. i know you have been a part of the these discussions before in a case like this, but cases that you can compare it to. any idea? >> well, we always resisted putting a deadline on things. you can talk to mike pence and learn about 25 other witnesses you need to talk to that you weren't aware of before. it suggests they were close to the end. my guess is they have done all of the legal analysis they need to do to decide what kinds of charges they're looking at. i think th
not mike pence's aides, just pence himself. that's one point. the other is it signals they're close to the end of the investigation. typically prosecutors want to approach the people at the highest levels after they have learned as much as they can about the case. they have talked to everyone else they can talk to. they have read every other document, and all that's left is the people in the closest inner circles. it says to me they are getting very close to the end. >> do you have in...
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it is about pence being afraid. it will lose quickly. but it is another delay tactic by these people because they are so scared, so scared, lawrence, of the truth ever coming out and the american people learning all of the things that trump and his minions did that day. >> neal, the washington post developed a report on new evidence we didn't know about until they reported on it. it has been over the weekend. the trump team hired a consulting firm to do a study of any possible voting irregularities in the presidential election. that study came back saying absolutely nothing. there's nothing there that could overturn it. so the firm that they hired to do that study, which they never made public because it had results that they didn't like, it looks like yet another smoking gun in the white house that they were all holding in their hands. this written report. mark meadows had that written a report. donald trump knew about that written report. when they continued with things like calling the georgia secretary of state, demanding 11,000 more
it is about pence being afraid. it will lose quickly. but it is another delay tactic by these people because they are so scared, so scared, lawrence, of the truth ever coming out and the american people learning all of the things that trump and his minions did that day. >> neal, the washington post developed a report on new evidence we didn't know about until they reported on it. it has been over the weekend. the trump team hired a consulting firm to do a study of any possible voting...
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jacob, how device president pence and mr. mike pence react to that? >> with frustration. >> well, yeah, i guess i'd be pretty frustrated as well. according to the new york times, citing the geniuses committee, mike nihilists calling that and i'm quoting the reporting here, trump had said something to the fact, of maybe mister pence should be hanged. trump of course also attacked pence on twitter, didn't hold his feelings to himself. he went after him on twitter while trump's supporters were storming the capital saying he liked the courage to act. pence, want you to show strength and clearly skeptical about his bosses intentions, resisted efforts to evacuate him from the building. >> so when his secret service agents, including one of them, who was carrying the nuclear football with him, were chased out by these neo-fascists, and they ran down to a still undisclosed mysterious place in the capitol, he uttered what i think are the six most chilling words of this entire thing i've seen so far. he said i'm not getting in that car. >> according to journali
jacob, how device president pence and mr. mike pence react to that? >> with frustration. >> well, yeah, i guess i'd be pretty frustrated as well. according to the new york times, citing the geniuses committee, mike nihilists calling that and i'm quoting the reporting here, trump had said something to the fact, of maybe mister pence should be hanged. trump of course also attacked pence on twitter, didn't hold his feelings to himself. he went after him on twitter while trump's...
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and now, pence's refusal is drawing criticism from a towering conservative figure whose advice pencesought. former federal judge michael luttig whose counsel pence sought during trump's pressure campaign in the days before january six. luttig argues today in the new york times that not only is pence's positioned just flat out wrong, but that pence's criticism of the subpoena as a political maneuver could not be further from the truth. luttig writes, quote, the only question now is not whether pence will have to testify before the grand jury, but how soon? jack smith's subpoena was neither politically motivated nor designed to strengthen president biden's political hand in 2024. that is the jarring dissonance between the subpoena and mr. pence's characterization of it. it is mr. pence who has chosen to politicize the subpoena, and not the doj. the legal titan who advised vice president pence and the most perilous moment of his career is now publicly questioning pence's legal strategy, which is probably as good as mine as any than his legal argument is maybe perhaps moot. joining us no
and now, pence's refusal is drawing criticism from a towering conservative figure whose advice pencesought. former federal judge michael luttig whose counsel pence sought during trump's pressure campaign in the days before january six. luttig argues today in the new york times that not only is pence's positioned just flat out wrong, but that pence's criticism of the subpoena as a political maneuver could not be further from the truth. luttig writes, quote, the only question now is not whether...
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that's according to a pence spokesperson.ed to search his washington, d.c., office in the coming days. pence's aides say they have been fully cooperating with the justice department since a dozen classified records were found at pence's home last month. all this coming just hours after pence was subpoenaed by a special counsel, jack smith, who is investigating donald trump and his role in the january 6th insurrection. cnn's paula reid has more. >> reporter: fbi agents arrived at the indiana home of former vice president mike pence friday to search for classified documents. in a statement released after the search, pence's team revealed investigators removed one document with classified markings and six additional pages without such markings that were not discovered in the initial review by the vice president's counsel. >> let me be clear, those classified documents should not have been in my personal residence. mistakes were made. i take full responsibility. >> reporter: the justice department is now reviewing how those docum
that's according to a pence spokesperson.ed to search his washington, d.c., office in the coming days. pence's aides say they have been fully cooperating with the justice department since a dozen classified records were found at pence's home last month. all this coming just hours after pence was subpoenaed by a special counsel, jack smith, who is investigating donald trump and his role in the january 6th insurrection. cnn's paula reid has more. >> reporter: fbi agents arrived at the...
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pence has put a lot on paper, right? we said that. he's put a lot on the public record generally, so what are the unanswered questions that most likely the special counsel will want to know the answers to? >> some of those conversations as tali just laid out are conversations that only pence has the answers to, right? some of them are circumstances in which other people are in the room, but they may want to flesh out a little bit more. in a wall street journal article last november the former vice president laid out a number of these conversations for everybody to read. one of them happens on january 4th, and this is the infamous oval office meeting where the president's lawyer john eastman lays out this harebrained idea about stealing the election and how pence is going to play a role in this. here's what pence writes about it, i turned to the president who was distracted and said, quote, mr. president, did you hear that? even your lawyer doesn't think i have the authority to return electoral votes. the president noted. if i'm a pros
pence has put a lot on paper, right? we said that. he's put a lot on the public record generally, so what are the unanswered questions that most likely the special counsel will want to know the answers to? >> some of those conversations as tali just laid out are conversations that only pence has the answers to, right? some of them are circumstances in which other people are in the room, but they may want to flesh out a little bit more. in a wall street journal article last november the...
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the skes that come up in terms of will pence be able to talk about certain things, but pence facing a definitely play out going forward as well. >> the dynamic potentially running against his former boss, while also complying with an investigation into him. that's got to be awkward. zack cohen from dc, thank you very much. >>> let's delve into the legal implications with michael moore, a former u.s. attorney for the district of pennsylvania and we are glad to have your expertise. we were joking during the commercial break, you flip over a rock and there is another classified document. what could this mean for mike pence? >> i think he is probably handling it the right way. glad to be with both of you here on the set. he has handled it the right way by saying he is responsible and he is responsible for this, and he has allowed them to come to the home to do a search. i think on a grander scale, it has probably bigger implications what may be going on with the trump documents case. the pence case and the biden case are completely different than the trump case but there is no way that th
the skes that come up in terms of will pence be able to talk about certain things, but pence facing a definitely play out going forward as well. >> the dynamic potentially running against his former boss, while also complying with an investigation into him. that's got to be awkward. zack cohen from dc, thank you very much. >>> let's delve into the legal implications with michael moore, a former u.s. attorney for the district of pennsylvania and we are glad to have your expertise....
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pence's legal team will fight the.dent was acting in it his role as president of the senate during the joint session of congress on january 6th arguing that he should be shielded from having to testify as part of the speech or debit clause that protects legislators from outside scrutiny. the source adds, it's unclear how the clause prevents pence from testifying about conversations before the capitol attack. pence previously defied his request from the january 6th select committee saying the committee had no right to his testimony. the leading of law fair to point out the ri tickness that seems to be obvious to everyone else except his legal team. so let me get this straight. pence refused to testify before january 6th committee on separation of powers grounds because congress couldn't compel his testimony as veep and he refuses to testify before the grand jury because he's president of the senate. so pence's challenge to the subpoena is not as many anticipated having to do with executive privilege, which former presid
pence's legal team will fight the.dent was acting in it his role as president of the senate during the joint session of congress on january 6th arguing that he should be shielded from having to testify as part of the speech or debit clause that protects legislators from outside scrutiny. the source adds, it's unclear how the clause prevents pence from testifying about conversations before the capitol attack. pence previously defied his request from the january 6th select committee saying the...
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we're told one of pence's private lawyers is there as they search the pence house. lawyers have been going back and forth with the government on just when and just how it would happen. let's talk about what's happening here and some other big legal developments with mike pence. with me to share reporting and insights, evan perez, former federal prosecutor elliott williams, and paula reid. this was negotiated. this is not a warrant at the pence house. but still the fbi wants to go in, the vice president, they found classified documents there. they want to go through the house to see if anything else. >> to see if there's anything else. you know, in the case of the vice president -- former vice president, he and his legal team have been trying to bend over backwards to make sure that the fbi can come in, do this search, and hopefully find nothing else. and then perhaps he can then move on to his political duties that he wants -- you know, he has plans to go to iowa and so on. so this is the best way for him to get this over with as soon as possible. you will note righ
we're told one of pence's private lawyers is there as they search the pence house. lawyers have been going back and forth with the government on just when and just how it would happen. let's talk about what's happening here and some other big legal developments with mike pence. with me to share reporting and insights, evan perez, former federal prosecutor elliott williams, and paula reid. this was negotiated. this is not a warrant at the pence house. but still the fbi wants to go in, the vice...
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pence and both -- sorry, mr. pence and mr. both handling this in a thoughtful, responsible way. again, whether or not anyone is ultimately charged, we'll see. >> kelly o'donnell and chuck rosenberg, thank you for joining us on that breaking news. >>> right now president biden is meeting with the nation's governors at the white house. this is part of the national governors association winter meeting. ali roth is with us from the white house. what can we expect from today's event? i believe this is a live picture of the vice president speaking. >> reporter: that's right. president biden, vice president kamala harris walking into the east room, starting this event a couple of minutes ago. it is kicking off a weekend of festivities between president biden and the nation's governors. we expected first lady jill biden to be in attendance, but the white house is saying this morning she's going to not attend today's events because she is feeling a little bit under the weather. the white house making sure to say she has been tested for
pence and both -- sorry, mr. pence and mr. both handling this in a thoughtful, responsible way. again, whether or not anyone is ultimately charged, we'll see. >> kelly o'donnell and chuck rosenberg, thank you for joining us on that breaking news. >>> right now president biden is meeting with the nation's governors at the white house. this is part of the national governors association winter meeting. ali roth is with us from the white house. what can we expect from today's event?...
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or they have mike pence's lawyers saying this is a tough one.it comes out that there's a subpoena, it would make it easier for them. it could be a strategy. number three, "the new york times" is now reporting just moments ago, you and i have been in the newsroom figuring it out as we go, it is related to january 6th. number three, it suggests that special counsel smith really needs to get more information to decide whether to charge other people with a crime. so on a big news night, like this, i think of little dirk, the feds listening, the feds will be listening to mike pence. they will win this battle if he fights it. they will sit him down, put him underoath and they'll be listening to his answers when he's asked, did donald trump know about the violence? did he coordinate with the militias? did anyone in the white house say to you up until the 6th they they had kind of a plan to do this? you need the hard evidence. if he says yes to those questions, more people could be indicted. >> mike pence, now that we understand this is about january 6t
or they have mike pence's lawyers saying this is a tough one.it comes out that there's a subpoena, it would make it easier for them. it could be a strategy. number three, "the new york times" is now reporting just moments ago, you and i have been in the newsroom figuring it out as we go, it is related to january 6th. number three, it suggests that special counsel smith really needs to get more information to decide whether to charge other people with a crime. so on a big news night,...
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>> reporter: it's a pretty big and busy week for mike pence. this fbi search is still going on in indiana at his home. he's not there right now because mike pence and his wife just announced a few days ago his daughters had a baby. they're on the west coast with family. the fbi is at his home, and that's because the justice department is continuing to conduct a review after classified documents were found a few weeks ago by an attorney who was doing his own search at pence's residence. it comes on the heels of classified documents being found in the home of joe biden and the office of joe biden, as well as that criminal probe into mar-a-lago having documents. so donald trump's beach house in florida also having documents. and so this search of pence's home in indiana, it was somewhat expected, abby. after this attorney had found the documents for pence, they were in touch with the justice department, and they have tried to be very cooperative. we also learned through our reporting that a private attorney is on site at that home, and in the next
>> reporter: it's a pretty big and busy week for mike pence. this fbi search is still going on in indiana at his home. he's not there right now because mike pence and his wife just announced a few days ago his daughters had a baby. they're on the west coast with family. the fbi is at his home, and that's because the justice department is continuing to conduct a review after classified documents were found a few weeks ago by an attorney who was doing his own search at pence's residence. it...
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trump has tried to block pence on testifying.entually, the courts will overcome that and previous january six cases have shown that the doj can overcome that. but i think it is interesting because, even if that is true, it is more difficult now for pence to go through granary and try to start executive privilege because he is or destroyed that privilege by discussing it publicly. i think one of the things that we never we learned through the january six committee or the proper witnesses, is what pence's thoughts were, what pence was saying and hearing from trump directly in the moments leading up to january 6th. including anna jenner four and five when he was in a closed-door meetings with trump and eastman. he really had the full picture of the kinds of discussions that were going on. you don't really know the minutiae of what eastman wanted pence to do that day. we don't know that manisha zemple of what members of congress wanted pence to do on january 6th when they met with trump and pence in the white house that in december 2
trump has tried to block pence on testifying.entually, the courts will overcome that and previous january six cases have shown that the doj can overcome that. but i think it is interesting because, even if that is true, it is more difficult now for pence to go through granary and try to start executive privilege because he is or destroyed that privilege by discussing it publicly. i think one of the things that we never we learned through the january six committee or the proper witnesses, is...
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pence: john, thank you. when i wrote "so help me god" as a about lesson learned early in my life and challenges at this season of my public career. but i hope that people who take a look at this book see that it has also been described as the most wholesome defense of the record of the trump-penn's administration because i could not be more proud to have been vice president in an administration that rebuild our military, rolled back taxes and regulations, created 7 million good paying jobs, unemployment was at a 50 year low. we unleashed american energy and became a net exporter of energy for the first time in 70 years. we secured our southern border and reduce illegal immigration by 90%. [applause] and we appointed more than 300 conservatives to our federal courts at every level included justice neil gorsuch, brett kavanaugh and amy coney barrett. that conservative majority gave america a new beginning and -- in the right to life in the last six months. [applause] to me, it was a privilege to be a part of i
pence: john, thank you. when i wrote "so help me god" as a about lesson learned early in my life and challenges at this season of my public career. but i hope that people who take a look at this book see that it has also been described as the most wholesome defense of the record of the trump-penn's administration because i could not be more proud to have been vice president in an administration that rebuild our military, rolled back taxes and regulations, created 7 million good paying...
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to seek from pence. so, pence is claiming that this is all about lofty constitutional principles, but this is not about principles. it's about politics. pence has always been a scary cat, particularly when it comes to trump. he is just afraid of telling the truth. so he is trying to throw a privilege after privilege here. the problem with this constitutional claim, and it is a particular problem for pence, because pence and trump -- they all claim to be following the strict text of the constitution. oh -- the text of the constitution gives privilege only to senators and representatives. and last i checked, pence was neither. >> that always has been a scaredy cat. sara, on one hand it feels like there is a ton going on in jack smith's world and it feels like he is picking up the pace but at the same time every day feels like groundhogs day -- and i feel like we are going in circles. what is happening? >> this is one of the most complex cases of the justice department has never got. we shouldn't be surpris
to seek from pence. so, pence is claiming that this is all about lofty constitutional principles, but this is not about principles. it's about politics. pence has always been a scary cat, particularly when it comes to trump. he is just afraid of telling the truth. so he is trying to throw a privilege after privilege here. the problem with this constitutional claim, and it is a particular problem for pence, because pence and trump -- they all claim to be following the strict text of the...
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i think ultimately mike pence will have to testify. >> michael, vice president pence refused to testifyore the january 6th committee. does this impact whether or not he complies with the subpoena, or could he become a presidential candidate, floating the rule of law? >> i'm glad to be with both of you and it's good to see you barbara. i will tell you, i don't think there's anybody in the country more excited than trump about this subpoena than mike pence. because it gives someone to put the blame on, for his delay in testifying. i think he probably doesn't want to testify, there is clearly no way out of a grand jury subpoena as it sits. as opposed to one of the congressional subpoenas that we saw, you don't have the same separation of powers in those kinds of things. i expect that the end of the day he will testify. the case you're talking about, the nixon case, it really means that executive privilege cannot be a shield to hide criminal conduct. you can't do things that are illegal, and then try to get around it by claiming executive privilege. so this shield is not gonna hold for them
i think ultimately mike pence will have to testify. >> michael, vice president pence refused to testifyore the january 6th committee. does this impact whether or not he complies with the subpoena, or could he become a presidential candidate, floating the rule of law? >> i'm glad to be with both of you and it's good to see you barbara. i will tell you, i don't think there's anybody in the country more excited than trump about this subpoena than mike pence. because it gives someone to...
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the problem with this constitutional claim, and it is a particular problem for pence, because pence and trump claim to be following the strict text of the constitution, the text of the constitution gives privilege only two senators and representatives. last i checked, pence was neither. >> that always has been a scary cat. sara, on one hand it feels like there is a ton going on in jack smith's world and it feels like he is picking up the pace but at the same time every day feels like groundhogs day and we are going in circles. what is actually happening? >> this is one of the most complex cases of the justice department has never got. we shouldn't be surprised that it is taking a long time. but he's obviously moving as quickly as possible, trying to compel the former vice president to speak over the executive -- all of this. >> how close are republicans watching all of this? the 2024 races upon us, and if trump ends up being the nominee, is he really going to be embroiled in a legal battle? are republicans going to be cool with that? >> i think the most important thing to remember in al
the problem with this constitutional claim, and it is a particular problem for pence, because pence and trump claim to be following the strict text of the constitution, the text of the constitution gives privilege only two senators and representatives. last i checked, pence was neither. >> that always has been a scary cat. sara, on one hand it feels like there is a ton going on in jack smith's world and it feels like he is picking up the pace but at the same time every day feels like...
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it some of them were chanting hang mike pence. of course the former vice president after that breaking with his former boss to whom he had been incredibly loyal in the past. this is just another chapter of this but again the special counsel investigation is something that is ongoing. we have no idea how much it will take, this is just a new chapter in how a current candidate for 24 is now dealing with another likely candidate for 2024 as many people expect mike pence to make his bid official in the coming weeks and months, yasmin. >> i want to mention, we will get into more of this with barbara mcqueen as well talking to the legality issue with all of this. not surprising necessarily, this claim the trump team is trying to make of executive privilege. something that we expected to happen. i am just wondering monica and if you talked about this forgive me, as we are trying to sift through all of this stuff. do we know if there's been any communication between the former vice president and his former boss because of now, trump's leg
it some of them were chanting hang mike pence. of course the former vice president after that breaking with his former boss to whom he had been incredibly loyal in the past. this is just another chapter of this but again the special counsel investigation is something that is ongoing. we have no idea how much it will take, this is just a new chapter in how a current candidate for 24 is now dealing with another likely candidate for 2024 as many people expect mike pence to make his bid official in...
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he brings up mike pence.e pence also in the news for a strategy regarding that inquiry from the justice department for january 6. this is from "the hill," reporting that former vice president pence is planning to fight the subpoena and the drawn -- and setting up a drawn out legal fight of the justice department ramps up its probe. his resistance to the subpoena, with this consistent with his previous reluctance to testify. it could -- more immediately, it could throw a wrench in the special counsel's efforts to investigate trump's efforts to overturn the 2020 election. he is planning to roll out a novel legal argument, once that hinges as his role on january 6. as the presiding officer of the senate, his team is expected argued that under his former position as president, his work technically falls under the legislative branch. he is therefore protected under a clause. more of that if you want to read that. if you want to talk about mike pence as a candidate, you can do so in this first hour, this first 40 m
he brings up mike pence.e pence also in the news for a strategy regarding that inquiry from the justice department for january 6. this is from "the hill," reporting that former vice president pence is planning to fight the subpoena and the drawn -- and setting up a drawn out legal fight of the justice department ramps up its probe. his resistance to the subpoena, with this consistent with his previous reluctance to testify. it could -- more immediately, it could throw a wrench in the...
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pence can shed light on these developments is important. nbc news. >>> five days after the powerful earthquakes hit turkey and syria, rescuers pulled a miracle out of the rubble. in turkey, they found a ten-day-old boy still breathing and pulled out his mother to safety a short time later. they were rushed to hospital. another man was rescued from the rubble of the same building. it's incredible how they survived multiple nights of freezing temperatures in the region, below zero. more than 23,000 people have been killed about the the earthquakes. if you want to help, our website is a useful tool. we have a link with information on the charities raising funds and sending supplies over. nbcbayarea.com and click help earthquake victims. >>> a racially unsettling and unfunny joke at an east bay middle school has district leaders wishing they had done more. >>> a major freeway will be shut down for parts of the weekend, areas that could impact travel the next couple of days. >>> storm ranger shows scattered rain moving back into the bay area, ou
pence can shed light on these developments is important. nbc news. >>> five days after the powerful earthquakes hit turkey and syria, rescuers pulled a miracle out of the rubble. in turkey, they found a ten-day-old boy still breathing and pulled out his mother to safety a short time later. they were rushed to hospital. another man was rescued from the rubble of the same building. it's incredible how they survived multiple nights of freezing temperatures in the region, below zero. more...
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it's mike pence.. >> my god. >> as jonathan just said, those trump supporters are never going to support mike pence. if you're trying to have it both ways, you're going to lose. there's a large chunk of the electorate, maybe 45-50% of the electorate that don't want donald trump to be their nominee. that's what mike pence and others should go after. vaughn just talked about georgia. i can't think of a better example of brad raffensperger and the governor down there, brian kemp, both of them crossed donald trump in a hard, tough way, both of them did. we heard reports they were done. brad raffensperger is never going to win. the trumpers are going to overwhelm him. they crushed donald trump. they crushed donald trump in the deep south in a really conservative state for republicans. that's the pathway forward. you do it the way brian kemp did it, the way brad raffensperger did. the election wasn't stolen. come on, y'all. just stop. we want to win future elections. stop lying. they can do it. if you say,
it's mike pence.. >> my god. >> as jonathan just said, those trump supporters are never going to support mike pence. if you're trying to have it both ways, you're going to lose. there's a large chunk of the electorate, maybe 45-50% of the electorate that don't want donald trump to be their nominee. that's what mike pence and others should go after. vaughn just talked about georgia. i can't think of a better example of brad raffensperger and the governor down there, brian kemp, both...
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it is going to take longer than the pence team would like. the fbi has to really examine each document, needs to identify where the intelligence originated from and whether any harm was done by the fact these records up out there. there's political implications for pence as he's eyeing a potential presidential run in 2024. for now, he's maintaining that he intends to fully cooperate with the justice department review, which is a different posture than what his rival, his former boss, president donald trump is taking in his own document investigation. >> and mike pence was also subpoenaed this week by special counsel jack smith, who is investigating trump, and his role in the january 6th insurrection. so what more do we know about that subpoena and how pence is going to handle that? >> reporter: fredricka, it's been a busy week for mike pence. this subpoena comes from the special counsel's investigation around january 6th and the 2020 election and the special counsel is requesting testimony and documents as part of that probe. pence has always
it is going to take longer than the pence team would like. the fbi has to really examine each document, needs to identify where the intelligence originated from and whether any harm was done by the fact these records up out there. there's political implications for pence as he's eyeing a potential presidential run in 2024. for now, he's maintaining that he intends to fully cooperate with the justice department review, which is a different posture than what his rival, his former boss, president...
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and you are the happiest people. >> pence, of course, refused.e has since talked about why. here he is at a cnn town hall. >> i have one higher loyalty, that was to god and the constitution. that's what set in motion the confrontation that would come to pass on january 6th. because i had taken an oath to the constitution of the united states. >> evan perez is out front live in washington. evan, this is extremely significant. talk about a former vice president of the united states, right, subpoenaed in the january 6th criminal investigation into the former president of the united states. this is important. what more are you learning? >> reporter: that's right. this is an important moment certainly in this investigation, erin. it's something that certainly we knew there were negotiations behind the scenes. we reported back in november that the justice department had approached the vice president's team about trying to get his testimony. and we know that he has certainly a lawyer, emmet floyd who is a hawk when it comes to issues when it comes to ex
and you are the happiest people. >> pence, of course, refused.e has since talked about why. here he is at a cnn town hall. >> i have one higher loyalty, that was to god and the constitution. that's what set in motion the confrontation that would come to pass on january 6th. because i had taken an oath to the constitution of the united states. >> evan perez is out front live in washington. evan, this is extremely significant. talk about a former vice president of the united...