the word "ping" started out in sonar. ping ping in a submarine. there's an expression now, i'll ping you, means i'll send you an e-mail and remind you to do this. so there's two different kinds here. talking about the underwater clicking like a bell that would be a ping from my day. it's also being used in this context to refer to a radar blip which has an echo or just a signal being sent to satellites. so maybe it's being used three ways. but the pings that the pilot was talking about a few moments ago would be the underwater ones. so i still question if the original search, which i understand was by the vietnamese navy, did they really listen underwater with underwater microphones? or in the right part of the world zble world. >> exactly. >> in terms of a 777 plane, obviously very big, very modern plane, how easy would it be to land a plane like that, given the wide area it could have landed, without any radar detection? >> well, i think if you get low enough you don't worry about radar. you can fly this thing on what we call map of the earth wh

there are two sorts of pings. one is a ping initiated by the satellite network, the hourly pings we see where the network checks in like it would with your cell phone to check it's still connected. then you have irregular pings look like they're initiated by the plane itself. for example, if you drive through a long tunnel, your phone will ping the network to

but why ping-pong? "ping pong dilpomacy" this thought occurred to me in 2008 about beijing with the olympics and one of the things to do was to look although you can watch people go play seriously and you realize it was about acceptable face of nationalism. when you walked into the stadiums you were given a bunch of papers with lots of information if you want to right about them. end of the very first fact 300 million will play ping-pong get least once her review have been to china it is a top down country. so that means someone has some time made the decision to tell ever ready to play ping-pong. it is a very strange idea but it is true. think of the things they could have told them to do. weightlifters or sharpshooter's. [laughter] why? why would they do that? at the height of the english empire they were codifying and exporting sports at an incredible rate from soccer to rugby to hockey but the chinese decided to concentrate on pingpong. so i ask a man who knew a thing or two ancient how did that hap

what on board the aircraft could cause that ping eight minutes after the last ping?ot really sure, and i'm not sure about the ping. all these things have come up, we have this partial information, bits and pieces of information. let's say it's in that area. again, we're not -- i don't think it narrows it down a great deal even if it was. maybe something broke, maybe it wasn't a ping, maybe it was an echo. this whole thing from day one has been breakthrough after breakthrough that wasn't a breakthrough. >> very true. mike, thank you. if the plane did go down in the indian ocean, what kind of clues will investigators be looking for. dr. michael boden was the forensic biologist in charge of the twa 800 capture. supervised diving operations for the uss cole recovery. it was your team that brought in dr. boden. much evidence is retrievable if a flight goes down in the water. how much? >> well, a great deal of the evidence is retrievable on twa flight 800. we were able to collect not only the black boxes, but almost 97, 98% of the aircraft from twa flight 800 and bring it

the other thing that they've relied on are pings, these messages, these pings that went out from different equipment on the plane. the rolls royce engines sent out pings that went back to rolls royce that said that the plane had fallen 40,000 feet in a minute. and what i heard today from law enforcement officials here is that the information they're getting has gotten better and better in recent days as different pieces on the plane have sent back different pings to their manufacturers who were tracking it through satellites. these are not pings that were easily obtainable in the days afterwards but as time has gone on, that information has gotten better and they anticipate it will get better going into the weekend. now, will this tell them exactly where it is, they say no, but it's certainly better off than they were just a few days ago. >> after this erratic behavior, 45,000 down to 23,000 back up to 30-something thousand, did it continue flying for four or five hours? >> it continues on for several more hours and the question is, where does it go at that point and what other information

today the partial ping.es your aviation expert head tell you is the most likely sequence of events here? >> well, we don't have a lot of facts number one, piers. that's one of the big problems in all of this. and frankly, the best primary factual information we have right now comes from this inmarsat data which we've been talking about. and the inmarsat data, the inmarsat satellite is not a satellite-tracking device. they have done a clever bit of work to try to make it do this job using the time it takes from the aim to tthe airplane and sa back and figure out timing as well as doppler shift to plot speed and direction. it's pretty clever engineering. if you look at that track, what you see initially would totally buttress the idea there was some sort of rapid decompression, a quick turn back and a descent t 12,000 feet. based on other information, military radar from malaysia. up to that point i don't see anything that would indicate anything that was a willful act. but then there are two turns after that,

the reason we're calling them pings and not data links is because the ping is saying, i have some data. the aircraft does this, when it loses communication or can't reach anyone, it sends out a ping. it says where are we and i need to connect with you. so it sends out basically a telephone call waiting for someone to answer. and that's what we're receiving. >> so first of all, the fact that there are these pings leads me to think that whole notion of a catastrophic disaster in which every single system was destroyed and that's why this thing disappeared isn't quite the case because if there are pings why are there not transponder information available? >> exactly. now there are things that could cause that. i'm not ruling it out. because if the buses are all lost and the other thing connected to the buses that transmit, which is incredibly unlikely. so i would agree with you that things were intentionally turned off or there was some kind of process, something happened where they were all turned off. >> it's a series of events, the transponder was disabled or failed first, then you've

we keep talking about the pings. with the black box or the flight data recorder that really holds the key to the answers as far as what happened on the plane, and the cockpit voice recorder, are those separate pings? they're listening for two sets of pings. >> that's correct. there's two different boxes entirely. one keeps track of just the voices and the other keeps track of the data. and yeah, there are two of them. but either of the pingers are 30-day pingers. they have 30-day batteries on them. >> okay. phaedra, we know that the pilot and the co-pilot, the pilot logged some 18,000 flying miles. so he was very, very experienced. this co-pilot, 27 years of age. pretty fresh out of flight school. and i'm just curious, as a pilot asking you in an emergency situation, if we don't know what kind of emergency happened onboard this particular plane, would you rather have someone who was a little more veteran, a little more experienced or younger and fresh out of school and fresh with procedure? >> this sounds like a tric

full ping there was a partial ping or partial handshake. there was a little bit more information. what do you make of the latest half ping? >> every hour when the ground station is getting no data from the plane it sends out a ping saying are you there and the plane sends back a signal saying we are still logged on to the network. there is no data going back and forth. there is just the ping. we are here. 8:11 a.m. malaysian time was the last full computer handshake. eight minutes later there is some evidence for a partial handshake. i'm sorry to say that we have no explanation for what that is or what it means. that is something we are pushing on right now in our news room. >> can you add to that? >> joel expresses it well. it took two years to find the air france black box and we knew where air france went. that water where air france crashed is shallow in comparison to this water. this is three times as deep. so finding -- we don't know if that debris is connected with the aircraft. if we do it will put it within thousand of square miles

officials tell cnn malaysian authorities think they have several pings, pings that were sent from thehours after its transponders, the signals went out. based on that information and other data, investigators now believe the plane may have made it to the indian ocean. the commander of the u.s. navy's seventh fleet told me just a short while ago an american warship just turned into the entrance of the indian ocean to search the area. he said the u.s. has moved at the request of the malaysian government. our correspondents are working their source. our cnn effort is using the global reach to cover this story like no one else can. let's go to our pentagon correspondent barbara starr first. she's got new information, barbara? >> wolf, a senior u.s. official told me that the malaysian government has now said to them, to the u.s., it does have several pings from what they do believe is this airliner. they're not clear about how much data is actually involved, but essentially electronic pings that have led them to calculate that a plane like this one with engines like this plane had flew sev

it wasn't a full ping, it was a partial ping. say could be triggered by a catastrophic event like the plane hiltittinge ocean. let's go to will ripley working the story for days. will ripley, great, they see the satellite imagery. tell me when they get the planes and boats out there to find this stuff. >> reporter: yeah, the planes are taking off about three hours from now, brooke. you can bet they're going to be heading towards the area they think the debris field, possible debris field may be located in. here is the challenge. the satellite pictures are three days old, taken when the seas were very rough. huge waves, gale force winds. this debris has moved since then. while pilots are going to have sort of an idea where to look, it is a moving target as you mentioned, location changing every single day. satellite imagery is not precise as well. you have a window of area that you have to look through. there are a number of factors. we have 12 planes from 6 countries. they divided into two sectors, east and the west. they fly fou

but the real question is why ping pong? ping pong diplomacy. this thought occurred to me in 2008 when my in-laws were kind enough not to invite me to go to the 11th. i went along and we were wandering around and one of the fun things to do is look at some of the more love sports but, of course, ping pong is not unloved in china but it's good to go into what should be played so seriously. what you realize even then was it was about gold it was nationalism, about acceptable place of nationalism. if you are a journalist in the trade of any kind, when you walk into these stadiums you're given a big bunch of papers with lots of information just in case you want to go and write about that fantastic match between uganda and ghana in the corner. the very first act on the page was it every week in china 300 million people will play ping pong at least once. if you've ever been to china you know one thing. china is a top down country. it's not bottom up country. that means someone at sometime made this decision to tell everyone to play ping pong. it's a v

there are two sorts of pings.ated by the satellite network, the hourly pings we see where the network checks in like it would with your cell phone to check it's still connected. then you have irregular pings look like they're initiated by the plane itself. for example, if you drive through a long tunnel, your phone will ping the network to re-establish contact. there are pings associated with this turn. the plane may have lost contact with the satellite if it turned sharply, went up and down, something like that. then the plane's term that will would have tried to re-establish with the satellite. it seems like the last partial ping, same thing was happening. it wasn't a timeout from the network to re-establish the plane was still connected. if it's the same situation, it may well be connected with a turn, stall, dive, whatever. >> really interesting notion there. bob, we know you've had a chance to look at these images, the 122 first spotted and the field of 300, then maybe i don't know if you've had the chance --

and then there was the seventh, the partial ping. they couldn't say, and they were quite open about it, they couldn't say why, and they couldn't say the significance of it. today, they said that they don't believe this partial ping was done by human intervention. in other words, this last ping only eight minutes after the previous one -- >> 8:11 a.m. was believed to be the last communication from this aircraft. >> the sixth ping, yes. the sixth ping. then you have this partial one eight minutes later, 8:19. the significance is, no human intervention, so nobody has tried to switch it on to register on the network. the significance, this is the plane, because it's a ping not coming from the ground station that way, it's the plane to the ground station, and this they believe is very significant or will be in honing down exactly where the plane was, because it's only eight minutes. >> david, early on the 8:00 program, this was called a potential game changer. do you agree with that? >> absolutely. i can derive some information from it, a

you heard what molly was saying and you know, she said that at 8:11, there was a ping and that that ping is recognized by malaysian officials as having come from flight 370 and i just had a guest on in the block before this, who said that they really can't be sure that the ping is from this 777 given the fact that the transponders were off and that the data on our cell phone. >> first of all with malaysian authorities and the way they've handled this, i think it's pretty outrage it took malaysia to search the homes. really, 24 hours after this flight went missing, it pretty much became apparent that something was up here and the first folks you would look at were the people in the cockpit piloting the plane. i think it's pretty disgraceful the way the malaysians have handled. this seems like every angle but a hijacking or terrorism. if they want to avoid getting egg on their face, too late, because it's there. >> the pilot should have been investigated immediately and apparently, the two guys, the fbi says oh, they're not a problem either. now, we know this is a criminal investigation. s

final partial ping you heard so much about. it came from the plane but it was what they called sort of a half ping. we'll explain exactly what that is and why it could be a game changer in the search. and st. race against time. a construction worker trapped in a burning building about to collapse. this video, someone standing there, she was on her way back from lunch, she was there and filmed this. we have that coming up. ♪ [ male announcer ] when fixed income experts... ♪ ...work with equity experts... ♪ ...who work with regional experts... ♪ ...who work with portfolio management experts, that's when expertise happens. mfs. because there is no expertise without collaboration. mfs. predibut, manufacturings a prettin the united states do. means advanced technology. we learned that technology allows us to be craft oriented. no one's losing their job. there's no beer robot that has suddenly chased them out. the technology is actually creating new jobs. siemens designed and built the right tools and resources to get the job done. i

here comes the ping-pong ball. oh, he misses. he tries it again. i'll tell you what this is, this is amazing feats of editing. brilliant editing. these look spectacular. they do a great, great job. i would love to think that somebody can hit a banana into someone's mouth, cut it in half with a ping-pong ball. >> but it makes it less believable. you have this light ping-pong ball going to smash a banana in half. there's not enough velocity in a human arm to do that. ever tried to pitt into a bana with the skin and bite it off. >> did it on the show. it's awful. >> it's nasty. >> these guys always match. they always have the same kind of attire on. >> it's very entertaining. you can say that about all of their videos. they're very create in, too. >> i'm sure they fooled some people. they're not going to fool us. >> right. that's it for "right this minute," everybody. thanks for joining us. we'll see you next time. ?ñÑ;Ñ; [doorbell rings] hey. hey. what's this? it's u-verse live tv. with at&t u-verse... you can watch live tv from your device. hey. hey

but why ping-pong? "ping pong dilpomacy" this thought occurred to me in 2008 about beijing with the olympics and one of the things to do was to look although you can watch people go play seriously and you realize it was about acceptable face of nationalism. when you walked into the stadiums you were given a bunch of papers with lots of information if you want to right about them. end of the very first fact 300 million will play ping-pong get least once her review have been to china it is a top down country. so that means someone has some time made the decision to tell ever ready to play ping-pong. it is a very strange idea but it is true. think of the things they could have told them to do. weightlifters or sharpshooter's. [laughter] why? why would they do that? at the height of the english empire they were codifying and exporting sports at an incredible rate from soccer to rugby to hockey but the chinese decided to concentrate on pingpong. so i ask a man who knew a thing or two ancient how did that hap

this isn't like one of the other pings where you've got an hour before the next check in with this ping, the investigators will be able to narrow down, as miles was saying, the timing of it. this gives you a much closer -- potentially a much closer range of timings. so you can pinpoint much more intensely where it was likely to be. still vast distances, anderson, to be sure. but more intensely. and miles, i just want to go back to a point you made earlier. it's also possible that even the impact of the plane could have caused this ping? >> yeah. it's hard to say for sure, of course. but there's any number of scenarios you could come up with that would sort of reactivate that box in some way to have it try to communicate with that satellite. whatever it was it was probably some sort of power surge. what would cause that? i think the first suspect would be the flame out of the engine. that's not going to be the exact spot necessarily where it went down. the other engine would be going for a little while but not much longer. but certainly you talk about trying to find the haystack. that's

find that pinging. now, if they know the area this fr which that plane may have went down, then you have a search area to find the flight data recorders. but, again, to the pinging, are we seeing any news about that? >> you have to understand how the pinging works. this is sort of inexact. it can be 15 days. it could be another 20 days. it's a bt ri that's basically inside that sends the pinging out. it's right at the water's edge. and you can't be a hundred miles away in the water with a listening device and hear the ping. you have to be very close, almost on top of it. the depth of the water are 2, 2 1/2 miles down. so for that ping to penetrate through the water and make its way to a listening device which will be deployed in this case likely by the australia military, because they will have that gear on board. it's a science that requirings them to kind of know exactly where to be. you can't be a hundred miles away, stick your listening device in and say let's ping. >> as they mentioned, they put bu

how is the pinging, sat com pinging at that point. i'm going to be looking into that. >> you've investigated crashes before. does that theory sound plausible to you? >> it certainly does. the turn seems to me to take it back to a place to land. on that heading, there was a very large, long runway with no obstructions. i do think the pilot certainly had the ability to fight for the flight for a while. we find in so many other accidents statistically speaking, this is what often comes up. have you a malfunction on the plane and then you have pilot action. those two things, so many times in an accident, the report of the national transportation safety board, mechanical failure exacerbated by pilot action. it's tragic and sad but makes it soish so important to get that flight data recorder and find out what happened. the passengers' families will want to make sure it never happens to anyone else. >> no question. the next key, finding this plane. thank all of you. mary, rick, kip. coming up news hour after this break, we learn today about

it could have flown across this way and pinged here. it could have flown there and pinged here. this is part of a bad plan because there is not gps sent from the planes down to the ground. this is one ping of a circle there. there is a satellite in space there. they call it the hand shake there. they found out that the distance would have put that plane somewhere along that ring. now we have to start eliminating the ring. it didn't have enough fuel plus it wasn't fast enough to get there. and then they are saying you know what, we have great coverage through here. it couldn't be there. this is all we have left. this is the northern corridor here and one to the south. at 8:11 am. i'm assuming that this thing pinged for one hour at every hour. and if they now where those are and they now how they moved they can draw conclusions from that. >> my gosh. it is an incredible search here. the kind of technology that is at the fingertips at the investigators is going to be paramount here. just as the availability of that technology is important we are finding that perhaps there is a lack

why would a plane send that ping outside of reports? >> that's right where we are, the question of the day, is this when it hits the water? is this what causes some partial burst of information as the electron nicks in the aircraft are inundated with water? whatever information data burst is available, that's what they are looking at. >> this could be something that might send out a burst, not on its scheduled hourly report possibly hitting the water. also the theory that possibly when the plane turns, because it has an antenna on each wing, this could be a turn as the plane was heading down? again, possibly. >> those are the things that will come out of this. trying to get into the datastream or the partial data stream that's been available, i think that will reveal something definitive over the next coming days. >> i'm glad you brought up data stream and definitive. the plane sent out partial information only by accident, these handshakes. what could change and crucially how quickly in the way that planes send out information to preve

ping. we say 2:11. within a couple hundred miles. the plane was flying inside the ring which means it was getting closer to the satellite itself. so this is doppler radar. we use doppler radar to know this is tuscaloosa's tornado. is th this is moving this way by doppler shift. we knew at the time there was a tornado on the ground right there at tuscaloosa. where else can you hear doppler shift? if you hear a fire truck or train or racecar go -- there's a shift. if you're going closer, the frequency is different than moving away from you. the train moves across, sound gets lower as the train goes by. back to the satellite. this is the first ping. there is a second ping through here, a third ping down here. this ping is getting closer to the satellite. this ping is flying along the line. the ping down here is definitely flying away from the satellite to get it down to australia and the last ping here, we don't know if it was the end of the flight or was there still another hour of fuel or 59

electronic pings. >> electronic -- >> pings. pings. >> pings. >> what the u.s.ied their best to get whatever sources from their satellite system to come up with a possibility, as i mentioned just now, possibility of where the aircraft should be. >> as i indicated yesterday, we are now sharing information we had normally shared because of national security with agencies that could assist us. and this new information, or the availability of this information in our hands is shared to these experts are now being digested. i hope within a couple of days that they can come to some conclusive position on what you asked earlier. then i will immediately inform the media. >> yes. from where, sir? [ inaudible question ] >> i think we've already said that. we already said that earlier. >> okay, hold on -- [ inaudible question ] >> reports suggest that -- >> you don't want to go into that -- >> next. >> next, please. >> the timeline, when we finalize it. >> next, please. [ everyone talking at once ] >> we've said it. >> yes. over here, sir. yes. [ inaudible question ] [ spea

the flight could have been going this way, and then ping, this way, and ping. it does not mean that this is the path of the plane nor is this the path of the plane, but just happens to be on the line at 8:11 a.m. that is what that mean lines means. >> and that is a fantastic reminder, chad. it again shows how big the search area is. and this is another question from twitter and the only one we have time for, but could it have sh shadowed another airline to avoid detection? the slip screen so you would be confused with them and not getting two lifts, or is the satellite data clear enough to pick it out? >> it is possible, and it is dangerous, because of the jet wa wash, because they are big planes and the primary radar would say, what in the world was that? that was huge and that was not just some 727 that flew over me or an md 888, and it is large, and it is possible that it is military movie mania where you have five helicopters in the big clu clump, but all of the sudden, there is as they fly on the land there is only showing up one. and remember "top gun" fi

do we have the specific pings? no.his is what the spokesman told me on friday, every ping gets further away, so we know go to my website, it is kind of hard to explain, go to jeffwise.net, i explained it all. that analysis we saw was great. it was great, but it lacked the data that let us know whether it was plausible or not. we have the data that says it is not plausible. >> hang on. jim, you can beat up on jeff wise. first jim. go ahead, jim. >> i got to tell you, i don't think it is possible. and i don't think it was possible because this is a very, very tricky maneuver. it would take a lot of practice and a pilot with a lot of luck. >> i got 500 hours formation flying. formation joined by day is a tricky maneuver in an agile jet or helicopter. something with momentum of a 777, it is even harder. if you overlay the fact that it is at night, the only night formation i've done, 300 hours flying, senior instructor, very experienced, on night vision goggles, for me this is not a plausible option and not what we should b

as a former investigators, what does all of this pinging indicate to you, the pinging that was cominge hours after it went off radar? >> first of all, this pinging, just like the turn, the first day and the second day. the information seems to be sort of coming out incrementally. this is a poorly organized and poorly directed investigation up to this point. this amounts to a new bit of information. i would point out that this airplane was fueled for a flight to beijing. that flight, that fuel, includes very substantial margins which are required under the regulation. that airplane could fly to beijing and for quite a long distance after that. you draw a great big arc as to where it could be. >> i've heard that now officials are saying this changes the search from the area of a chest board to a football field. that's going to make things very, very difficult. how do you pinpoint that, exactly where this plane is? >> you use the best information and it has just been very difficult to me. it seems to me that to get that best information before the best experts who are there in the ar are

the company who got the pings said the pings meant the plane took the northerly path or went south.ect which says as sound gets closer, the far her away it gets, the softer, so why come back on camera here they took the seven pings and measured exactly how strong the ping was, as the plane was first flying they said it was the same distance away. you see it's gets done here it gets closer to the satellite, a little further away down here and closer here and even closer still at the last ping at 11:00. meaning, they're saying there is no way mathematically using this doppler model that the plane could have flown to the north. must have flown to the south, and also charted other 777s that flew the same path and it matched almost identical. >> thank you very much. this is just coming in, and a statement from the survivors. a statement from those left behind by those who died on the malaysian airlines flying and it's quite something. we have just confirmed this is from them. and it says: 18 days have passed during which the malaysian government and military constantly tried to delay, de

the pinging stopped. it makes a turn, and at that point, according to the brand new reporting in the last five minutes, it went up and then went down. they told us they thought it was cruising at a much lower altitude that the 35,000 once it reportedly made the turn and then went on for some four to five hours. nobody can explain why that would happen. >> shep, this is bob. over your -- i guess your right shoulder, the area they were looking for the plane, the direction it was supposed to be flying in, they had a lot of aircraft and radar looking in that area. i look at that big circle you're talking about. how much equipment would it take to cover that kind of area? >> you can't cover that area. this is six times -- and i saw a graphic on your program just a few minutes ago. six times the size of the united states. they're not searching all of this. they can't search all of this. they think in general it headed this way. the u.s. military seems to believe it ended up somewhere in the indian ocean. does t

from all the pings that came before it.gs that came before it were initiated by an automated ground station. essentially asked the satellite to ask the airplane do you still want to be connected to the network. in all those cases the plane answered yes, i do want to be connected to the satellite and it flue on. this ping originated from the aircraft itself. what immarsat investigators are trying to determine now is what would cause the aircraft to initiate a request for service. would it be, for example, a change in the power of the airplane, some type of tem to logon to the network? that's really not clear. immarsat and boeing are going to be going through this to understand what would prompt a condition like this. >> john, would it require a human to do something to send out that ping? >> wii, in our reporting last night, we were able to determine in an interview with immarsat that, no, in fact, this was not the interaction of a human with the system, not someone switching a system on manually and saying they want the sat

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navy sent a ping to australia which could pick up the sounds or pings emitted under water by the plane's black box but this is now a race against time scott because the ping that emits those noises only has a battery life of around a month. >> so about ten days left in that. holey, thanks very much. the pink locator is a device that is towed by a ship. it can hear the pings from the recorders from about a mile away. the u.s. is also sending a robot sub that you see right here that has cameras and sensors. it can scan the bottom for 20 hours at a time. there's another urgent search tonight, this one for victims of a mudslide north of seattle. we have just got word that at least ten people were killed. police are going through a list of others who are unaccounted for. the hillside was once green and full of trees but saturday 15 million cubic yards of mud gave way. danielle nottingham is there danielle? >> reporter: scott, rescue crews were pulled from part of the search zone today because the hillside is so unstable. the soupy mud is 40 feet deep in some places and covers a square mile. c

first of all, explain these pings. are these coming from satellite pinging off of the plane or is the plane sending out some sort of a signal? >> so it's not entirely clear to me but it's my understanding that the acars, the data went off 14 to 24 minutes before the transponder was shut off. my understanding is that these are sort of like blank pings and how the conditions were derived from that, i'm not sure. i would point out here that in this modern age, waypoints are just everywhere. so this airplane, it's not clear whether it flew directly over the waypoints or it just got near them. >> right. is this consistent -- i can actually draw on here. so if the activity was this way and goes this way and changes or regardless of that, does that indicate that somebody is punching those coordinates into the cockpit somehow or that they are coming close to the waypoints that that's the reference that we know roughly where they were? >> well, that's an excellent question. if this airplane were flying on a flight management co

do we have the specific pings? no. me on friday, every ping gets further away, so we know go to my website, it is kind of hard to explain, go to jeffwise.net, i explained it all. that analysis we saw was great. it was great, but it lacked the data that let us know whether it was plausible or not. we have the data that says it is not plausible. >> hang on. jim, you can beat up on jeff wise. first jim. go ahead, jim. >> i got to tell you, i don't think it is possible. and i don't think it was possible because this is a very, very tricky maneuver. it would take a lot of practice and a pilot with a lot of luck. >> i got 500 hours formation flying. formation joined by day is a tricky maneuver in an agile jet or helicopter. something with momentum of a 777, it is even harder. if you overlay the fact that it is at night, the only night formation i've done, 300 hours flying, senior instructor, very experienced, on night vision goggles, for me this is not a plausible option and not what we should be looking at. it is taking peo

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we also heard about another ping, a mysterious ping eight minutes later. >> at 8:19. >> correct.be sending them out at this hour. >> any explanation possibly? >> the investigators say they don't know. they say it was a partial handshake not a full one like the previous ones. they don't know. i can speculate that possibly it was the aircraft running out of fuel, powering down, and the whole system just went dead. and as it went dead it sent out a last partial signal. if that is the case, then it helps us, again, narrow down the impact point. because the plane could have continued gliding for up to 100 miles or so. but at least it is within 100 miles of that last ping. that is the impact point. the debris could be hundreds of miles away now. >> thank you very much. we'll be looking at what the challenge is for the weather down there. the big waves and the big winds. even if they found small bits of defree. >>> 100 bereaved relatives have staged. i asked why this happened and how protesters managed to defy meece there. >> protests are of course very rare on the streets of beijing. i

these pings is one. new information on the pings. the idea they were not sending data about the engines but they were at least giving a location of that plane. and what analysts did, they looked at all the other planes in that area which had transponders on as planes would normally. this one does not. and they determined that this plane had no corresponding transponder and therefore concluded this must be the missing plane that had turned its transponder off. you talk about other clues. it's my understanding they've pieced together several clues which makes them turn their direction to the west, to the indian ocean. the other one being the key information really that radar track that they've had from the malaysian air force for some days now that showed the plane going north and taking that southwesterly turn. and remember, they've had time now over the last couple of days to further analyze that radar data. i've talked to experts. they say that reading this radar data is more art than science. you got a lot of noise out there. and t

it pings about once every second or so.ed up by akousic equipment that the navy will drop in the water. we're talking about depths of water that's two plus miles deep. you're already limiting the area of where that ping can go. >> all right. kerry sanders pointing out the first step has to be taken. we have to determine is this part of the plane and that raises a lot of questions that still need to be answered and they still have to find what the main debris area might be and where the black boxes might be. we're going to take a quick break and be back with more of this breaking news coverage on msnbc right after this. >>> we're covering the breaking news of what could be a break in the case. this incredible mystery of the missing triple seven malaysia airline flight. two pieces of debris that have been found floating in an area that was determined by the ntsb to be a likely search area and the possible flight path. joining me on the phone john mcgraw. good to have you with us. as you look at these developments and the poss

they're looking right now for the pings. if it is in the water, that thing is pinging for 30 cay -- days. finally they have resources in there that have the type of microphones they can put in the water. i think it was days before the stuff was deployed. so also with the aircraft, you know, anti-submarine aircraft. the same technology could probably hear the pinging of those -- >> but, you know, jim, when you talk about that -- >> i hope they don't hear the pinging. >> why? >> then it is probably on land. >> i see. if they do -- >> if it is on land. >> okay. what about the fact that if it is on land, shouldn't -- could it have landed, i mean, this is a big plane, could it have landed somewhere where there is no airstrip? where it can, you know -- >> you should have asked chuck that. i think he talked about that before. i think it needs about -- >> 5,000 feet. >> 5,000 feet. it has to be pretty solid ground. it is a heavy aircraft. you're not going to take off from there again, i suspect. >> then you would empty the cargo. le

they're looking right now for the pings. if it is in the water, that thing is pinging for 30 cay -- days. finally they have resources in there that have the type of microphones they can put in the water. i think it was days before the stuff was deployed. so also with the aircraft, you know, anti-submarine aircraft. the same technology could probably hear the pinging of those -- >> but, you know, jim, when you talk about that -- >> i hope they don't hear the pinging. >> why? >> then it is probably on land. >> i see. if they do -- >> if it is on land. >> okay. what about the fact that if it is on land, shouldn't -- could it have landed, i mean, this is a big plane, could it have landed somewhere where there is no airstrip? where it can, you know -- >> you should have asked chuck that. i think he talked about that before. i think it needs about -- >> 5,000 feet. >> 5,000 feet. it has to be pretty solid ground. it is a heavy aircraft. you're not going to take off from there again, i suspect. >> then you would empty the cargo. le

off it was communicating with a satellite orbiting more than 22,000 miles above earth, sending out pingsr electronic hand shakes to say "i'm here and okay." >> the ping is really like your cell phone checking that it's connected with a cell phone network. >> reporter: the first three recorded pings come between 12:30 and 1:00 a.m. local time as the plane takes off from kuala lumpur an ascends, all normal stuff. >> the first three pings are messages which are carrying the data about the performance of the engines on the plane. >> reporter: at 1:19, a.m., the co-pilot send his final message to air traffic "all right, good night." then the transponder, which identifies the plane to civilian radar, stops communicating. between 1:121 and 1:28, a.m., radar shows the plane makes a sharp left turn then dips as low as 12,000 feet. at 2:22 a.m., as the plane appears to be making another turn the satellite thehen picksp three more electronic pings. one right after the other in the span of just a few minutes. >> looks like they were initiated by the plane because the plane had lost contact with the

the partial ping. i'm not qualified, but the investigators can tell us. >> and these are all pieces of the puzzle. to jeffrey thomas now. here's what one of our viewers asked. how come it takes to long to get the pinger there when you can fly there commercially in a day? it's going to take about four or five days to reach the search ar area? why does it take so long? >> because of the endurance of the aircraft. two hours over the search area, and four hours back. about a ten-hour endurance for the aircraft. and as has been mentioned before, it's a very, very remote part of the world. >> and you're joining us from australia. we'll rejoin you in a bit. now to michael kay. john kirby said we're looking for the haystack, not just the needle yet. one of our viewers said, how long would it take to find that needle? what is one piece of evidence you would like to see that would help investigators here? >> we're talking about an investigation that has been over 17 days, with no conclusive leads. so, the analys