>> the towed locator pinger work continues. there have been no further contacts with any transmission. and we need to continue that for several days. right up to the point of which there's absolutely no doubt that the pinger batters will have expired. so it will be several days more. now, until we stop the pinger search, we will not deploy the submersible. is that clear? we will not deploy it, unless we find, unless we get another transmission, in which case we'll probably have a better idea of what's down there, and we'll go down there and have a look. [ inaudible question ] yeah. the issue is that if we can get more pinger -- well, more transmissions, we can get a better fix on the ocean floor, which will enable a much more narrowly focused visual search for wreckage. that's the issue. if we go down there now and do the visual search, it will take many, many, many days. because it's very slow, very painstaking work to scour the ocean floor. and of course, depths are very deep and it's very challenging. [ inaudible question ]

of the pinger.hat do you make of this? >> as i said earlier, these -- any one of these problems involve a lot of different clues and usually these bits of information are very different from each other. a pinger data point is different than an oil slick is different than an inmarsat signal and they all have different -- contribute different parts of the answer. certainly we'll be very curious to know if they can identify this oil as being possibly from an airplane. that will be nice to know. one thing you mentioned in comparing the time it takes to do this would be the air france flight 447. i want to mention that there were actually three autonomous vehicles used in that search, three vehicles and that triples your ability to search for things, too. so as mr. houston mentioned, there may be other assets brought in to play later on, especially if it turns out that they are deeper than the bluefin can search. another point is, there was a mention of four hours to analyze the data. that actually is fo

and pinger trackers work because they build them.e breaking news coverage right after this. nnouncer ] nearly 7 million clients. how did edward jones get so big? let me just put this away. ♪ could you teach our kids that trick? [ male announcer ] by not acting that way. it's how edward jones makes sense of investing. ...and let in the dog that woke the man who drove to the control room [ woman ] driverless mode engaged. find parking space. [ woman ] parking space found. [ male announcer ] ...that secured the data that directed the turbines that powered the farm that made the milk that went to the store that reminded the man to buy the milk that was poured by the girl who loved the cat. [ meows ] the internet of everything is changing everything. cisco. tomorrow starts here. the internet of everything gunderman group is growing. getting in a groove. growth is gratifying. goal is to grow. gotta get greater growth. growth? growth. i just talked to ups. they've got a lot of great ideas. like smart pick ups. they'll only show up when you

and focus on what the pingers tell us.are true, you heard the captain talk about 30 x what was it -- 30 x 10 kilometers. that is about 100 square miles, something like that. that is a very manageable area where you don't have to maybe mow the lawn you may be able to go directly to the target if you believe what the pingers tell you. so it might be a little bit different in this case. >> yeah, well, let's hope. david gallo, up next, we'll talk to the marathon boston bombing survivor, adrienne haslet, she told me moments after the bombing she would dance again. she documented her journey, every step of the way including some of the toughest moments. >> i'm at the studio. and -- just tried dancing again. determination is going to get me through. but -- crap, it is hard. ben! ♪ [ train whistle blows ] oh, that was close. you ain't lying. [ ql guy ] let quicken loans help you save your money. anybody have occasional constipation, diarrhea, gas, bloating? one phillips' colon health probiotic cap each day helps defend against the

towed pinger locator. to this point, it has not been able to reacquire the signals. this are many steps yet before these detections can be positively verified as being from missing flight mh 370. firstly, we need to fix the position. then the ocean shield can lower the autonomous underwater vehicle bluefin 21 into the water and attempt to locate wreckage on the sea floor. another source of evidence search as wreckage would verify this lead. the area in which the signals have been received has a depth of approximately 4,500 meters. this is also the limited capability of the autonomous underwater vehicle. i need to be honest with you. it could take some days before the information is available to establish whether these detections can be confirmed as being from mh 370. in very deep oceanic water, nothing happens fast. of course, i will update you once we have an unequivocal determination. ocean shield will stay in its current area until such time as it can verify or discount the detections as being from mh 3

pinger locator, towing a u.s. pinger locator.turned off all the noise producing equipment, lowered their device to 1400 feet. and they said they got some stronger and then it faded out because they were moving away from it, which they said was encouraging. then they said they reeled it in and they did a course change. and then when they turned around, once they did the course change, they lowered it to 3,000 meters, and then detected it for about 15 more minutes. and everything that the commander told us and also that the man in charge of this search told us is consistent with what our audio expert says is what happened before we even had this press conference to reveal that. >> it's very exciting. very exciting. i think we are finally found the haystack. >> right. >> and we are zeroing in on both of the devices. and remember, he said also that when they made the turn and came back, what they detected had a slightly different frequency, meaning it might have been the second one. so that we may have both in this narrow field at th

in that case the pinger locater failed to find the pinger.ff from the black box. it might have been damaged. three other cases success, egypt air crash in the atlantic in 1999 and air crash of adam air jet off indonesia. the black boxes were found by search areas were small. malaysia air is the fifth attempt and still a long shot. >> we have nothing to use. it's a better shot on the indian ocean. >> an official from the manufacturer expresses confidence telling us if that pinger on malaysia airlines 370 is working and they are searching in the right area, they will find it. the pinger locater will speak for itself. >> a new ship with equipment is trying to see if underwater sounds are connected to flight 370. how will that change the effort? our panel is back right after this. do you think you'll need when you retire? then we gave each person a ribbon to show how many years that amount might last. i was trying to, like, pull it a little further. [ woman ] got me to 70 years old. i'm going to have to rethink this thing. it's hard to imagine ho

it reacquired signals with the sonar pinger.ent a short time ago ago. take a listen. >> today i can report further information on the search for the missing flight mh-370. on monday, i advised the towed pinger located deployed by the "ocean shield" had detected

navy's pinger locater has detected pinger signals consistent with the black box.s first detected a series of pings that lasted approximately two hours and 20 minutes, lost the signal, turned around and again, the pinger picked up another signal. both sounds were different which is what we would expect from two separate pingers. on the flight data reporter and the other from the cockpit voice recorder but the head of the search task force says until they actually have evidence they can't be sure if indeed it is the plane. >> i need to be honest with you. it could take some days before the information is available to establish whether these detections can be confirmed as being from mh-370. in very deep oceanianic water, nothing happens fast. >> when he says deep he means waters some three miles deep. the blue fin is prepared to scour the ocean floor. as the search continues so does speculation as to what actually happened inside the cockpit. we are being told that the plane may have steered a curious course around indonesian air space, a route that suggests an inten

the pinger locator search goes on. but just how difficult is that search? we'll show you when we come right back. and tea parties. i'll have more awkward conversations than i'm equipped for, because i'm raising two girls on my own. i'll worry about the economy more than a few times before they're grown. but it's for them, so i've found a way. who matters most to you says the most about you. at massmutual we're owned by our policyowners, and they matter most to us. ready to plan for your future? we'll help you get there. ♪ hooking up the country whelping business run ♪ ♪ build! we're investing big to keep our country in the lead. ♪ load! we keep moving to deliver what you need. and that means growth, lots of cargo going all around the globe. cars and parts, fuel and steel, peas and rice, hey that's nice! ♪ norfolk southern what's your function? ♪ ♪ helping this big country move ahead as one ♪ ♪ norfolk southern how's that function? ♪ gunderman group is growing. getting in a groove. growth is gratifying. goal is to grow. gotta get greater growth. growth? grow

but the pinger, the very noise of the pinger is designed to be unique.designed to be identifiable, and that is why angus houston said last night he was encouraged because it had the characteristics of the black box noise. >> if the black boxes are somewhere in that area, why is there no evidence of debris anywhere around it because they've searched a why area around that spot, right? >> and there you have put your finger on one of the most troubling aspects of the discovery. because they now have to triangulate, basically hear the pinger again and again and again. and by doing that, work out exactly where it is. and one would hope that they're in the vicinity, the very close vicinity and not on the outer extremities. but you might have hoped, and it would have been nice to have some debris, anything to back up that claim. because here is the problem, carol, even a month on, there should be something. and even if the plane ditched in the water in the most gentle fashion, the experts say it would have broken up in some shape or fashion. and even if it went

this's why they have those two towed pinger locaters. one from the u.s., one from the uk, doing that 150-mile trek. they believe that's trperhaps where they're going to find that evidence that that wife says she needs. yes, they're not sure they're looking in the right spot, john. >> the words we hear now are luck and best guess. it tells you exactly where this search is right now. kyung lah, thanks so much. the panel joins us next to talk about this. also, tom forman shows us how the latest search area was arrived at. and we'll show you the high tech undersea tools that just started working today. and also, revisit some of the longest running disappearances in aviation history. stay with us. ♪ ♪ ben! ♪ [ train whistle blows ] oh, that was close. you ain't lying. let quicken loans help you save your money with a mortgage that's engineered to amaze. a seven day cruise to alaska or the caribbean from just $549. that's seven days to either marvel at mayan ruins... savor the very best local flavors... or sail in glistening glacier bay. with

i'm holding a pinger now.ying it's 37 1/2 kilohertz but in reality it's around 37 1/2 kilohertz it it's not exactly. each pinger's a little different. what you would expect is the voice recorder and the flight data recorder should have slightly different frequencies. they should come in a little differently and they should have different times. if you think about it, they're talking that they're hearing an echo or a ping and a ping. they're hearing a ping at one frequency and a ping at another frequency. >> which would be entirely different. >> which would say it's from two different devices compared to an echo or something bouncing off the bottom or something in the water. >> that's the other question i have for christine. what are the odds that double echo or double ping could have been as simple as a bounce off of a thermal layer or cavern or mountain or other debris? >> well, actually, we're working -- they're working in very deep water. approximately 12,000 feet. it's very dense water. sound travels faste

the first is the pinger locater. the other is the bluefin 21. that can be equipped with a side can sonar or a still camera. we'll put that in the water, make a map of the ocean floor to see what's under there. to see if we can find some debris, large or small aircraft debris and hopefully that black box. >> thank you very much. stand by. geoffrey thomas is with us. mary schiavo is an attorney for victims of transportation accidents. ocean explorer, tim taylor. jeff wise. jim tilmotilmon. the batteries may already be dead. do you believe the data recorders will ever be found? >> if the pinger is dead and there's no debris on the surface and we're convinced it's along this southern arm, then what we're really facing is we would have to go down and try to locate this thing with side scan sonar, which is equivalent of riding around the continental united states on a horse looking for this thing. it's getting extremely slow process. if you deployed multiple underwater robots, this could take decades. >> tim taylor, how does a search plan change, if n

how much longer can the pingers last? we'll go straight to the source on that. >> as soon as it hits the water it starts pinging. it's designed that way. >> also ahead i want to take you back into the simulator to explore this idea the 777 was on a course to deliberately avoid radar coverage. does that automatically mean that there was a human at the controls of this plane? we'll be right back. i dbefore i dosearch any projects on my home. i love my contractor, and i am so thankful to angie's list for bringing us together. find out why more than two million members count on angie's list. angie's list -- reviews you can trust. ameriprise asked people a simple question: can you keep your lifestyle in retirement? i don't want to think about the alternative. i don't even know how to answer that. i mean, no one knows how long their money is going to last. i try not to worry, but you worry. what happens when your paychecks stop? because everyone has retirement questions. ameriprise created the exclusive confident retirement app

let's talk about the pinger and signal with the person who makes pingers and not only makes pingers,we have anish patel joining us on the phone with us from dukane seacom. anish, what do you think of the detection of the single pulse signal? >> good morning, victor and good morning, christi. my degree of skepticism is high. i have to get some cooperation. i would like to see additional assets put on-site quickly. maybe some sonar buoys on the water quickly. there should be a indication from the voice recorder. if the recorders are adjacent or near each other or reasonable proximi proximity, they should have detected two signals. let's get assets in the water in the area to corroborate before we get hopes up and disappoint families another time. it is the right number. 37.5 kilohertz, that's fantastic. it's the right number. >> what else could it be if not this pinger? what else at 37.5 kilohertz? give us an idea what else is out there that would be emitting that frequency? >> to our knowledge, to my knowledge, it is not a number, it is not a frequency that readily occurs in nature. d

the first is the pinger locater. the other is the bluefin 21. that can be equipped with a side can sonar or a still camera. we'll put that in the water, make a map of the ocean floor to see what's under there. to see if we can find some debris, large or small aircraft debris and hopefully that black box. >> thank you very much. stand by. geoffrey thomas is with us. mary schiavo is an attorney for victims of transportation accidents. ocean explorer, tim taylor. jeff wise. jim tilmon. the batteries may already be dead. do you believe the data recorders will ever be found? >> if the pinger is dead and there's no debris on the surface and we're convinced it's along this southern arm, then what we're really facing is we would have to go down and try to locate this thing with side scan sonar, which is equivalent of riding around the continental united states on a horse looking for this thing. it's getting extremely slow process. if you deployed multiple underwater robots, this could take decades. >> tim taylor, how does a search plan change, if nothin

if they don't retract the towed pinger, the effective movement through the water slows down, the pinger will sink because the effective ship movement is reduced. so they -- it's brought up close to the surface. that also helps speed up the turn. and once they're around it, it's deployed fully again. so the first detection was obtained whilst the towed pinger locator was at a relatively shallow depth. and given that it's within about 800 yards to 2,000 yards, the two detections, that would be consistent with the sound anomalies that i mentioned before. the different propagation paths. so it's quite possible that even though they assess it to be within 1,800 yards apart, it's quite possible it could be from the same source on the seabed. [ inaudible question ] >> well, we're very focused at the moment on exhausting the investigation into that source. and that's going to take quite some considerable period of time. for example, for the rest of the day, i would imagine and probably into tomorrow, we will still be doing towed pinger runs over this area. now, when that's finished, probably th

it sounds like a pinger, the frequent looks like a pinger, most of us conclude it must be a pinger. that's why everybody is so optimistic, but it does no good unless we find the black boxes. >> you think these pingers are more indicative of where the search is headed, but the chinese picked up some pingers on saturday, but you trust the ones picked up by the american equipment more? >> i think realistically, both have to be checked out because we don't have the black boxes anymore. you can't afford to overlook any lead because the battery life is dwindling down, but the chinese ship noted the lat tuitude and longitude. but because they replicated it, the ocean shield, they replicate it it. that's a really, that's a good fix on a sound and because they have so many indexes of reliability, i think that sounds very reliable. if i had to choose, that would be the one i go with. >> i think that many people were sort of hoping, maybe they'll spot some debris, a visual spots of planes in conjunction with the area that the pings were detected. is it realistic to think that debris would stil

how much longer can the pingers last? we'll go straight to the source on that. >> as soon as it hits the water it starts pinging. it's designed that way. >> also ahead i want to take you back into the simulator to explore this idea the 777 was on a course to deliberately avoid radar coverage. does that automatically mean that there was a human at the controls of this plane? we'll be right back. peace of mind is important when you're running a successful business. so we provide it services you can rely on. with centurylink as your trusted it partner, you'll experience reliable uptime for the network and services you depend on. multi-layered security solutions keep your information safe, and secure. and responsive dedicated support meets your needs, and eases your mind. centurylink. your link to what's next. ♪ ...work with equity experts... who work with regional experts... that's when expertise happens. mfs. because there is no expertise without collaboration. (agent) i understand. (dad) we've never sold a house before. (a

it is called a pinger locator.where the pinger would be. and what it does is it gives you a target strength and a bearing. you put this on an underwater vehicle and you can get a target strength and bearing so that vehicle could then find its way along the sea bed to wherever that pinger is located. >> but this is the part that confuses me. if that device needs to be within a kilometer, how can these four different locations, 17 miles apart from one another all be accurate unless that is a reflection of sound bouncing around within the ocean. >> the towed pinger locator is more sensitive than this device. it can detect the ping over an area of a few miles. what you have is the acoustic properties of the seawater and other geological obstructions or debris. the pinger could actually be tucked in under a piece of debris. it could be channelling the sound away in one direction. also, the sound under water can be tricky. the sound wants to always bend toward the area of the least sound velocity. so after you get near t

this towed pinger locater can go 20,000 feet below the surface, can detect the pinger from two milest does have its limitations. still, here's what the chief search coordinator, air marshal angus houston said a few hours ago about the pinger locater. >> using the towed pinger locater from the united states navy, on australian defense vessel "ocean shield," and a similar capability on "hmsecho" the two ships will search a 240 kilometer track, converging on each other. >> brian, i'm going to interrupt your report for a moment. i want to go to ft. hood, texas. the governor of texas, rick perry, is there. let's listen. >> a very thoughtful time that they allowed us to have, briefed us on the events. and also went by darnel to visit with some of the wounded. the families that were there, and giving us an opportunity to love on them and share with them our support. and a larger sense, though, there aren't any easy answers to what occurred here. and there's no way to wish away the suffering that is -- that's occurring of those caught in this very senseless act of violence. but i want to sta

>> just like one of our pingers. >> reporter: what does one of their pingers sound like? listen., it starts pinging. >> it doesn't take a lot of water to activate. it's designed that way. >> so if this were in an airplane, and hit the ocean, this would start immediately, this pinging sound? >> if it was not damaged in the incident. >> reporter: in perfect conditions the pinger's pulse can travel as far as 2 1/2 nautical miles. ocean caverns and cliffs, even vegetation can get in the way limiting that distance, though. before any beacon is shipped from here, its sound output is measured in one of these huge 50,000-gallon tanks. it's lowered into the tank through the floor above. surrounded by hydrophones, ultrasonic readings are recorded on this computer. this pinger is from twa flight 800. it went down off the coast of new york back in 1996. this company made this pinger, but after it was recovered, they got it back. now, this one was found in shallow water. but they are designed to function in water as deep as 20,000 feet. but what about the frequency? crews at sea picked up a s

we know that the other pinger is not an aviation pinger.ertz. it's one that we manufacture. it's used to put something in the ocean and set a time that says don't start going off for five days from now and then i can find what i put in the ocean. the chinese appears to be testing the device and working okay. so if they're careful it would be fine to have it in the boat if you keep it dry when using it in the water. >> that's the key. >> really, we have trained the users originally of that equipment. but that equipment was sold five to ten years ago. >> we appreciate you bringing it in for us. great information. >> thank you. >> chris, to you. >>> we have is a lot of news this morning. pistorius is on the stand. we have new office ft. hood shooter. >>> and breaking developments on flight 370. the left lead yet. let's get to it. >> the towed pinger locator has detected signals of aircraft black boxes. >> the u.s. navy did detect a pinging signal. >> i think we have finally found the haystack. >> this is extremely encouraging. go >> if this pr

the pinger locator is well below that. marine biologist paula carlson said at these depths marine life is unlike anyone has ever seen. >> the deeper you go you find less and less. very cold tolerant. might not even have eyes. may be blind because they don't need to see. there's no light down there. >> reporter: keep going towards the ocean floor, at 12,500 below sea level, the "titanic." where it still rests today. turned upside down and 14,400 is where you hit the iconic peak of washington state's mt. rainier. only after all that would you reach the spot search teams believe the pings are coming from. 14,800 feet into the abyss. if that doesn't capture the magnitude of this search, imagine what one oceanographer described to ed for us. picture yourself standing on top of one of the highest peak ps of the rocky mountains looking all the way down and trying to find a suitcase, in the dark. >> uh-oh. not good. >> got a lot of failures. a problem. >> reporter: only a handful of problem have traveled to these staggering depths

the range in these pingers on a good day is two miles.here's all kinds of conditions that can make it less. of course as the batteries go out, that can be reduced tremendously. so it is in fact a hail mary pass but they should do it. >> in football terms, at least in a football game they know where the end zone is when there's a hail mary. not sure they know where the end zone is here. richard quest, we hear about the assets now from skies, from space, from the surface and now underwater. still now that they've deployed the underwater devices is that reason for more hope? >> no more hope than there was earlier on, just more assets. they've started to add satellite telemetry as well. earlier it brought up a lot of objects which when they went to find them they could never find them. therefore it wasn't very valid. also there haven't many satellites actually looking at this part of the ocean normally. so they're having to retask those satellites. >> tom foreman said they keep refining the search based on new math and new calculations. i won

that's not really what the pinger locater hears.loud sound, and it can be sensitive down to a very long distance. we talk about it being one mile. that's the minimum it could be. it's designed to be up to three miles. it's the blocking of other things around it. don, we've been talking about the ebbs and flows -- >> quickly, david. we have to get to a break. let's talk about that after the break. i want to get your information. >> i would love to say about it. >> i want to discuss what happened in that press conference with all of my guests. so bill, david, stick around. we'll be back after a very quick break. these days, everything your business does is done on the internet. and tomorrow you'll do even more. that's what comcast business was built for. slow dsl from the phone company was built for stuff like this. switch to comcast business internet. then add voice and tv for just $34.90 more per month. and you'll be ready for tomorrow today. comcast business. built for business. >>> back to bill schofield who helped create the blac

and then, between three and then the fourth pinger was actually nine.understanding -- this is my area of -- is not my area of expertise, but strange things happen under water. it doesn't quite seem like a pattern. i think definitely for what all the other experts that know about this, it is just wonderful that this -- you know, it sounds very positive. and to me as a pilot when we look at the inmarsat calculations that i think were just brilliant and clever, and all the people that are involved with this whole project this is going to confirm a lot of things where the impact zone was. it will probably take all of those assumptions and calculations and they will be able to draw back and say hey, this was the speed it was traveling and therefore this was the altitude it was at. a lot of interesting things will happen just even before we pick up the black boxes and even before actual wreckage is sighted. so that is kind of an interesting way of looking at it. >> and as you were speaking we showed yet another map which kind of put them on a time line, all t

it reacquired signals with the sonar pinger. authorities made the announcement a short time ago ago. take a listen. >> today i can report further information on the search for the missing flight mh-370. on monday, i advised the towed pinger located deployed by the "ocean shield" had detected signals consistent with those emitted by aircraft black boxes on two separate occasions. i can tell you that "ocean shield" has been able to reacquire the signals on two more occasions. late yesterday afternoon and late last night perth time. the detection yesterday afternoon was held for approximately five minutes and 32 seconds. the detection late last night was held for approximately seven minutes. "ocean shield" has now detected four transmissions in the same broad area. yesterday's signals will assist in better defining a reduced and much more manageable search area on the ocean floor. i believe we are searching in the right area, but we need to visually identify aircraft wreckage before we can confirm with certainty that this is the re

david, you have the pinger, explain how it works. >> this is the pinger, it gets replaced on the c check on the cockpit voice recorder and data recorder. two boxes, that's the battery. this battery does not keep the memory in it, the memory's already stored, it's solid. even after this goes off, the data is still stored in here. i've had that question. >> this battery is for the actual pinging sound? >> that's correct. and we have a thing of water here. how does it work? >> i'll place it in there in a second. >> what's going to happen, we have 37 kilo hertz. which is higher that the human ear can hear. but it moves through water pretty well. what we have here is the connecter, the plastic area in between, keeps it isolated, as soon as the water connects that dot with this case is when it starts -- >> do you know what distance it can broadcast from? >> it's supposed to go up to 3 miles. now remember, as gallo, i'm sure, will point out here, there's a lot of interference. you can hide submarines under thermal differences in the water. i learned a lot from david on that. >> let's put it in

so the pingers go out. they don't hear anything, which is probably the odds are. the air search isn't going to continue as long as the weather holds up. there will be a point when the vessels on the water won't be able to do their work. they won't be able to get the devices in and out of the ships because of high seas. that will have to end. besides at a certain point you have to assume those pingers aren't pinging at all and you have to get into more sophisticated work like side-scan sonar. you just don't do that without any information about where to go. so i'm afraid we're entering into this really scary point in time where we move into the enduring mystery phase of this. it goes into the winter, then hopefully there will be some other resumed search afterward. as the australians have said, we'll search till hell freezes over. down in that part of the world, that's coming up. >> it certainly is. and let's not forget 229 people are missing still in a huge u.s.-made boeing 777 is missing as well. >>> still

in black box pinger.eliable piece of equipment that you're ever going to come across. and for a variety of reasons. not least of which, mechanical, distance, topography, all sorts of reasons can lead one entity with -- can lead it not to be successful. but in 447, in each winter they would go away, they would look at the science, they would refine the search area, they would then have to get the money and the commitment from the french, the brazilians and everybody else to go back out there again. a a airbus was very much involved in that decision. it was the fourth orfifth attempt and the tenth day of the second week they found it. it was literally the last moment. >> there's a sliver of hope with science and time they can do that. richard and mike, thanks for joining me here. we keep going back to the batteries and the pingers and the missing plane. they were only expected to last give or take 30 days, at best, 45. it's unlikely. the batteries were scheduled for replacement, but the recorders were never

>> well, ashleigh, we make the pinger. we don't know which pingers are on which air frame.e sell them through a distributor o. is so it could be us, it could be another manufacturer in the u.s. >> we're talking about how the time is really running out. i don't need to go any further but that the battery issue with you. i want you to show me the one we may be talking about right now, and compare it to the other example you have with you that could be -- it could last years and years, depending how we use it. >> this is the type of pinger used right now on black boxes. this or the other -- [ no audio ] >> i hope we haven't just lost him. so unfortunate. whenever -- do we have thomas back on skype? oh, rats. chad myers, you're going to have to do part of the job here. he was just showing us, at least our viewers got a view of that first pinger, which is the one we're talking about now. possibly not exactly, because as he just mentioned, we don't know about the dispersement of the pingers among various aircraft. that's the one on 370, effectively. looks small, but it is mighty.

two different types of pinger.nt kinds over sound or radio. >> but to help locate where this plane or wreckage is if something were to happen? >> absolutely. >> this wing here, this is a wing that crashed into the water. and how do you know that? >> well, we know that because it was recovered from the water. but what is important to us here is tracing the front leading edge of this right wing. and, in fact, if you look at it, there is deformation. it looks like it's dented inward. it looks like it struck some object. but in fact this wing hit the water. the water being a very, very hard surface when you hit it fast. and this is hydraulic deformation of the leading edge of the wing. >> so if you're talking about a 777 hitting the water, it would be immensely more noticeable? >> the energy that is transferred to the wing would be -- is in proportion to the speed. and that 777 would be moving at a much higher weed speed than this aircraft here. so therefore the energy would be greater. >> i mean, it's pretty interesti

that's according to the pinger manufacturer.k this could still be the black boxes in your estimation, even at these different temperatures or different rates? >> there's a lot of problems with this pinger data. the 33.3 megahertz frequency, that's a big problem. it may be explainable do to some of these factors that bill nye was talking about. it may not be. we have the fact that we had over false positives in recent days. and i want to bring us something that someone mentioned to me in an e-mail, but i haven't heard mention on air. there's a simple math problem that if the ship is pulling the tow fish along at 3 knots and the tow fish can detect the signal within two miles, basically, you wouldn't expect it to retain a signal for two hours. there seems to be a fundamental mathematical problem right there. and you add on to that that they weren't able to reacquire the signal, in the most recent day of searching. it starts to add up to a big problem. >> bill nye, our science guy, do you want to weigh in on that? do you agree? >>

>> the towed locator pinger work continues.ave been no further contacts with any transmission. and we need to continue that for several days. right up to the point of which there's absolutely no doubt that the pinger batters will have expired. so it will be several days more. now, until we stop the pinger search, we will not deploy the submersible. is that clear? we will not deploy it, unless we find, unless we get another transmission, in which case we'll probably have a better idea of what's down there, and we'll go down there and have a look. [ inaudible question ] yeah. the issue is that if we can get more pinger -- well, more transmissions, we can get a better fix on the ocean floor, which will enable a much more narrowly focused visual search for wreckage. that's the issue. if we go down there now and do the visual search, it will take many, many, many days. because it's very slow, very painstaking work to scour the ocean floor. and of course, depths are very deep and it's very challenging. [ inaudible question ] the advi

pinger locator was 33.3 kilo herts and usually the pinger you might manufacturer, the one you manufacturerbe 31.5. does this concern you, make you think they are listening to the wrong thing? >> well, it's something we need to study further. there's a lot of variables that come into play, age of battery, depth of water, temperature of water, possible debris that could be refracting or changing the frequency. all of these things need to be examined. the more data we have, the more we can help them. >> so, when you hear 33.3 is what this is broadcasting on, you're not throwing your hands up and saying that's not it, you're saying this very well could be it, right? >> we're on tptimistic, but cautious, we don't think it's dolphins. >> that's a big statement. people have been very worried that's what we could have picked up. 300 miles away you have the chinese picking something up, as well. >> yes, and the discrepancy between what the chinese heard, the equipment they were using, and the inability to replicate it, and also the very short space of time that they heard it, versus what the ocean

the debris field in terms of the pinger not drawing correlation, but i believe this is the pinger. pinger. that area closed in is extremely important right now. >> all right. so let's get to a point of confusion, mr. gallo. i was under the impression that if you get the pinger, you lock on to it, let alone for two hours, that means that you're just a few miles away from this. why is the search area 30,000 square miles, if picking up the pinger means you're just a couple of miles away? what's the disconnect? >> yeah. chris, i think you've got that right. i don't think they're related. if you've got the search area, i believe that big, wide search area is based on the inmarsat data mostly. the pinger is something totally different. if you've got a good couple of pings, loaning in on that, you're pretty close. so if you can believe in that site, we're within about five mimes on the outside. that's still about, oh, 75 square miles, something like that, but it's very doable. >> what were you tedealing with? how big was your area again, mr. gallo? >> 5,000 square miles. a irk issal with

-- towed pinger locator.weep through and then exit the search area and then hms echo comes in behind it and it's doing methodical echo sounding search on the bottom as well. i think they're putting a lot of hope in the fact that -- first of all, getting some more pings, obviously. but that hope is fading fast. they're also hope that "echo" will pick up something on the bottom or if nothing else, eliminate an area where there was no positive return off the bottom so when they do put the bluefin-21 down the area is going to be reduced even further and make this pain staking process just that little bit shorter. >> yeah. absolutely right, geoffrey thomas. >> i was fascinated to continue to conversation with paul on the proactive piece. paul, if you are still on, how much does temperature, solidity and pressure and all of these thermal layers in the depths of the ocean, how much does that affect the process being proacti proactive? >> that was last week's lesson, but go ahead, paul. >> sorry. >> in review -- well

to find the pinger, you have to be on top of it. i guess the response to my own skepticism is to say, maybe the chinese had this information all along and weren't sharing it. where am i wrong, richard? >> you are not, frankly. you're not. if you talk to anybody this morning, they are all raising the same questions. firstly, the timing looks interesting and i'm being charitable. secondly, the nature of the release of the information is counter to everything that anybody ever involved in an investigation is involved with. even if you wanted to avoid the malaysians, you should have told the jacc in perth. the variety of circumstances, toppled with the fact that the satellite pictures three weeks ago raises the question and skepticism. here i will say this, michael. what i will say from our lips to god's ears, this should be true. the manner in which it is being done raises fundamental questions. >> we don't want to give false hope to the families that have been tortured for a month. >> this is way up there in the league of giving false

was, if it is the pinger. located on the ocean floor because there is a short range to the ability to detect these pings. you know, about a mile and a half deep or maybe three-mile radius. so, if the boat with the kind of makeshift pinger detector was moving around, it could move in and out of the signal. so, it's possible and it was moving off the site. the pinger doesn't stop and go if the battery was running out. it would be the ship moving in and out of the signal area. it's possible. and i don't think, they also said there is also ocean sounds, but the finger frequency and pulse was intentionally selected not to sound like sort of random ocean sounds. unless a whale has a stopwatch, i don't think so. so, the sound is the right sound. coming in and out of focus is probably what has people wondering. because once you latched on to that sound, you would put the boat right there and not get off of it. not a sure thing, but it's promising. >> mary ellen, let's look at this from a different perspective and diff

on any debris that might be found, on the pinger locations. of this is obviously fascinating and important, but this is ultimately a human story with very real consequences for very real people. and with more than 150 onboard from here in china, the chinese families are certainly bearing the brunt of that not knowing and that at this stage i think is what they really want. so they can move on with their lives. wolf? >> what a heartbreaking story it is. now in week five. david mckenzie in beijing. thank you. let's bring in cnn's tom foreman right now, he's got a closer look at those underwater pings that have the u.s. navy saying they're cautiously optimistic. walk us through a little bit, tom, right now the kind of search equipment that's being used. >> you know, wolf, the differences between the teams and equipment is one of the reasons the families have such a hard time because they're getting messages from different people. we know there are two acoustic events as they describe them. the chinese ship that found something on april 5th and th

yeah, i'm convinced that it is a pinger. there are some confusion on the reporting and who it came from and where it came from. i'm optimistic that it is that pinger that we're looking for. again, too, they said they saw it, only heard it for a minute and a half and they haven't been able to relocate it from what i understand, which makes me very concerned about typically if you do have that pinger signal you should be able to come back over that same spot knowing where you were and pick it up again. i'm -- my optimism is weaning a little bit until we hear that they picked it up again. >> miles o'brien is with us now, as well. and, miles, i know you've been skeptical of a lot of things, of inmars inmarsat's findings, of how many resources were or were not admitted to this entire search, especially in terms of how many resources the u.s. was able to se send. what is your level of optimism or pessimism about this new information, i should say? >> well, you know, my first reaction is exactly jeff's, wow. but then you have to st

number one, the pinger may be -- the battery life in the pinger may be dying out if it hasn't alreadyen told about the towed pinger locator, really, to be most effective, it needs to have a confirmed piece of wreckage already found. we haven't found that yet. the makers say it's got to have that to basically have a starting point. it never had that starting point. they just put it in the water. it was a hail mary pass. now it looks as if it may have found signals consistent with the black box. it could be a major find here wolf. that's extraordinary for the odds it was up against. >> the u.s. made towed pinger locator, what kind of track record does it have in finding these black boxes? >> it has a good one overall. in the last 18 years, it has been used four times in major air accidents in water. including the egypt air crash in 199 in the atlantic ocean. the only time the manufacturer says it failed was from the 2009 air france crash in the atlantic. it went over the black box and did not find the black box but the manufacture says that's because the actual pinger from those black b

. >> australian ship, ocean shield detected two pingers.ne the leader on of the search said it could take days to confirm it. >> joining me now at the base of operations is cnn aaron mclaughlin's, this is the news for those viewers who are perhaps just joining us in this hour. i think it's critical, erin, that we go through the breaking news that we received about three hours ago now from perth f australia and the search chief. >> rosemary, they have detected not one but two, it happened in more shallow waters, and the second signal lasted 13 minutes. both consistent with the characteristics of the voice recorder and the inflight data recorder. take a listen to what angus houston has had to say, as he tried to characterize the discovery in a press conference earlier today. >>. >> clearly this is a most promising lead. and probably in the search so far, its the -- it's probably the best information that we have had. and again, i would ask all of you to treat this information cautiously, and responsibly until such time as we can provide the u

it's not a real pinger. but it's to show you that we have one second intervals and for each second, i have .2 second pulse within the one second. i don't know whether they have the audio wave sound that i produced. >> we'll have it for you a little bit later on this hour. yeah. >> okay. finally, the amplitude that is the strength. >> amplitude of received pulses. >> right. the strength of the received pulses is very important because, especially when you're trying to plot this versus position to determine where this device is. so you can plot so and so received signal strength over here. and when the ship moves it's a little louder. a little stronger. then it's getting weaker again. if you come back and make a track, you can pretty much do a contour of signal strength to determine what's the most likely position of the device below the surface. >> steady or fading? is that what you mean? >> that's a function of the water. the medium through which the signal is passing. in this case, the ocean. >> yeah. so do

the pingers are not the ball game. as bobbie testified air france, the pinger were dead.all. you know, this is immeasurably more difficult than air france because the search area is so enormous. >> because there's been no debris. >> and yet, again, i remain less optimistic that this will be sofrled than i was on day one since i've never seen an unsolved transport jet accident but this is looking like the all-time toughest one. >> someone described like trying to find something on a football field with a straw which gives you the idea of the difficulty of the immense expanse they're dealing with. tell me, bobbie, if the pinger goes out or goes silent, what's this next step under water? >> you still have an underwater search capability with those autonomous underwater vehicles doing side scan sonar and you take the data that you've got. maybe you still look at the areas that you've got pingers and start there. you take the best radars and satellite and continue the search by the mappings of the ocean, but now instead of a straw on the football field, you have a stir stick.

pinger locator in the indian ocean.scrambling to confirm whether the pings came from the plane's black boxes. brian todd is joining us. he's got details on what is going on. brian? >> we've heard the phrase cautious optimism and their next steps are so crucial to making the most out of these detections. they've got to move fast to find those signals again and with the batteries in the black box pinger almost dead, they certainly don't have much time. it had a tough job from the get-go. no wreckage from the plane. searching in waters so rough and so deep. but the towed pinger locator has detected signals in the indian ocean consistent with pings from black boxes. >> this would be called miraculous. this has come down from hundreds and thousands of square kilometers. >> two separate signals have been detected. what happens next? officials say they have to reacquire those signals. that means the pinger locator has to make other passes, first at least three runs parallel to those it made when it first detected the signal. t