[applause] >> as far as the republican party, do you feel that there are divisions within the republicanty as well that you are standing up to maybe and we have heard this before and establishment. will we see more unification of that republican already come november 2024? >> i will tell you this of an open and honest about it there's a civil war in the gop. but i tell you sarah, eileen into it, because i know that iron sharpened iron and there is one way to resolve our disagreement. and that is by fighting it out inside our meetings and offices. that is what we've been doing and we have been doing it for months. but when i want to see from a republican conference, our fingers and -- our voters and our donors in the republican party they will not does if we do not stop what is happening in america. we are a country with over $30 trillion in debt. we have a country that is wide open borders. we have a country that is in a recession matter how they define it. we are in a country where the children are being brainwashed where they can change their gender where they cannot each of us are mad

it is not enough votes to change the direction of the republican party here in utah. we do still have a sizable number of principled republicans. my message to the whole country is that neither principled republicans, democrats, or independents have the votes on their own to defend the american republic from the threat of a far-right anti-democracy movement. that is what we increasingly see around the country. we have to be together. that is why i am running as an independent. we are building a coalition of the country over party republicans. these are democrats and independents. that is why this is a close race. the majority of utah wants to stand up to the threat to our republic. they want to move our country forward. they want to solve problems like health care. we can only do that together. >> you have a similar view. you are also trying to find republicans and conservatives who are principled. they do want to move forward. they perhaps have these debates about policy issues that we are not really having today. we are talking about elections and election denial. we

, rina there has been polling done recently, showing you that a majority of republicans did not want mr. trump to be the party nominee in 2024. before the news of this search at more lago, was there a sense that republican lawmakers may have been ready to move on from mr. trump? and has the fact that this search has happened? has that up in did all of that now? well, in the past few months, i've definitely heard a greater sense then in a very long time that the country may, you know, really be looking for something fresh, something new. but again, it's almost as if we don't know where the pendulum has swung entirely for republicans and i speak to. there are a great many who are still very committed to make america great. again, movement who feel that trump maybe should be given a 2nd look. but there's also a fair amount whether you're talking about the mid atlantic region of republicans or western republicans or even southern republicans. there are a fair amount that want to try something new, perhaps in the form of florida governor ron de santis. it's hard to tell what will happen now. as of course, we know

a little bit more from that pole we talked about showing president trump's standing in the republican party going up since the fbi raid, his improvement, they note, has come to the detriment of florida governor ron desantis, whose 2024 support among republicans slumped five percentage points since late july, down to 16%. a record high, 71%, voters a trump should run for president in 2024. ray in elizabeth city, north carolina, good morning. you are next. ray, you are with us. caller: yes, i am here. can you hear me? host: yes, sir. caller: ok, not enough, hands down. here is the reason. people need to remember that trump is not a politician. he is a businessman. and he saw a lot what was happening, what the country was heading to, and he decided very courageously to dive in there and to run and to become president to help save this country. in my opinion, i believe so many politicians out there -- i was listening to a siren song, and their minds are being controlled by a siren song -- high taxes, open borders, and we are heading for the rocks big-time. and we have got to turn this country a

host: you hard in the statement when she talked about kind of the once greatness of the republican party and she is speaking in the's chance because the party has really changed. he has change the kind of candidate that was attracted to running in the cycle and as a result, the people that are running for office for governor, senator, whether it is dark mustering out in pennsylvania or kari lake or whether it's herschel walker in georgia the republicans that are running now are sort of these many trumps and they are running on the other action line. the idea that the election was stolen. that is how they won their primary so i agree in essence with the caller that the republican party that i came not been, though one of ronald reagan is just not there anymore . it is not a party of ideas that has become in a political organization oriented around if not just a single man, it's not just trump himself it's also trump's vibe, has temperament which all these other candidates have now adopted. the conspiracy theories, it's really fundamentally changed with the parties looks like, what it stan

the republican party has made it seem like only democratic women get abortions. h care. the amount of republican women who want slash need abortions. these are the same people who would think pro-life, but also support the death penalty, they support not giving children lunches in school. they support not helping us have housing and education and they don't care about the environment and climate change. so, there is no such thing as pro-life. this is a republican decision to make sure that women, across the board, do not have autonomy over their bodies. so the democratic party wants to start, they need he used a crack training and language about the debate we're actually having. >> we have about 30 seconds left, christina, should they start acting on gay rights and affirmative action with this court in place? >> the supreme court in places frightening, but i think we're gonna go on the offense, i was gonna insert a joke about how terrible the knicks are. if we're gonna be on the offense, i think the republicans need to take a page out of the republicans, when they

mohammed: rina, there has been polling done recently showing that a majority of republicans did not want mr. trump to be the party's2024, before the news of this search at mar-a-lago. was there a sense that republican lawmakers may have been ready to move on from mr. trump, and has the fact that this search has happened, has that upended all of that now? >> well, in the past few months, i've definitely heard a greater sense than in a very long time that the country may, you know, really be looking for something fresh, something new. but again, it's almost as if we don't know where the pendulum has swung entirely. for republicans that i speak to, there are a great many who are still very committed to the make america great again movement who feel that trump maybe should be given a second look. but there's also a fair r amoun, whether you're talking about the mid-atlantic region of republicans, or western republicans or even southern republicans, there are a fair amount that want to try something new, perhaps in the form of florida governor ron desantis. it's hard to tell what will happen now, as of course, we know i

>> the fate of democracy and the republican party in the wake of liz cheney's loss. >> i think we have to make sure that we are fighting against every single election denier. the election deniers, right now, are republicans. >> then, what did really rudy giuliani tell a fulton county grand jury? >> do you believe president trump is the ultimate target of this investigation? >> and are we on the verge of seeing a roadmap to the government's ongoing investigation of donald trump? plus, raw politics at the green grocer in pennsylvania. >> for those watching in pennsylvania, you know how particular many people are about their groceries. what happened with wegmans and wagner's? can you explain that to then? >> and the republican reckoning with extreme abortion laws that needs to be seen to be believed. >> that weighs on me. i voted for that bill. these are affecting people. >> when all in starts right now -- >> good evening from new york, i'm chris hayes, we now have, of course, the results, from wyoming's lone at-large congressional seat. congresswoman liz cheney, vice chair of the january

martin: let's turn to the republican party. do you think that moderates still have a chance? jessica: they have a chance when there's election reforms. in the house, we have seen the 10 republican members of congress at that voted to impeach trummp, many have -- donald trump, many have retired or have been beaten in primaries. ones who have won, they have been inoculated. and the only senator up for reelection this year that voted to convict trump his lisa murkowski in alaska. she's facing a republican challenger who has been endorsed by donald trump, to her far right, chile -- kelly chewbacca. but alaska implemented this top four runoff system. so, the top four, everyone runs in the same primary regardless of party and at the top four candidates, which was held last week, advance to the general election. from there, you have a ranked voting system, which maine also employees, so you have to get 50%. it is arguably more democratic because you have to get a majority of votes. you have an instant runoff system. and markowski is in a position for reelection because of that. we sa

american democracy, but for the sake of the institutional vitality, and indeed survival, of the republican party itself. and i think she is right on this. and i think it is underappreciated how right she is, by everyone. because here is the thing. a conservative parked in a two party liberal democracy like ours, which is what the republican party is and has been, cannot continue to thrive or even exist if the maga authoritarian cult takes over. there is no space for that institution in the world in which donald trump is successful, in which he successfully overturns american democracy, which is to say, to save the republican party, you actually must save american democracy. and somehow, liz cheney seems to be one of the only members of her party to grasp this elemental truth, or at least one of the only ones to act on it. the other republican cowards cannot muster the same courage to do what he has done to save their own hides in the end. instead, they have dealt with this tension, between the need to, again, preserve american democracy and their desire to win elections, retain their jobs, by ba

or outside the republican party? >> i haven't made any specific decisions or plans about this at this point. >> so running as an independent is a possibility? >> i'm not going to go down that path anymore in terms of speculating. >> the rnc is trying to figure out ways to keep you out, this idea of getting into a debate, promise to support the eventual nominee, you're not going to do that? >> i can understand why they would not want me on a debate stage with donald trump. >> so let's talk about the committee. one of the key figures here, is obviously mike pence, he said this week he's willing to consider testifying if he's asked. are you going to ask him? >> we have been discussions with his counsel when the country has been through something as grave as this was, everybody who has information has an obligation to step forward. i'd hope that wehe'll do that. >> you think we'll see him in september in this room before the committee? >> well, i would hope that he will understand how important it is for the american peo

i'm just going to start one of the figures as you describe in the actions i guess of the wu republican party one of the most -- party's thomas dewey of the governor of new york and attorney general who is a big crime buster. >> he was long neglected but a fascinating fellow. he was from michigan and he was an aspiring opera singer. he was a bass baritone and he had a very good voice. he came to new york to seek his career as a lawyer and through much of his time he sang in the jewish synagogue to sing to have enough money to pay his rent. originally he was very much teddy roosevelt oriented and teddy roosevelt had fueled much of the progressive wing of the party. the guy who seem to emerge as the heartthrob of this liberal wing of the party was someone named herbert clarke hoover. all these young guys like herbert rondell came to new york together mostly from the midwest and started their careers together. in the 1920s herbert hoover was deep into activism and dewey picked up that torch and do we and his classmates his friends became the standard bearers of the more moderate wing of the repu

it is about the forces that donald trump has unleashed in the republican party. ally is no going back to the party that i came up in, to the party that i knew. it has now fully embraced donald trump and his anti-democratic movement. judy: tim, what does that mean? you are in wyoming. what does that mean for you as you look at your party, the republican party going forward with this kind of allegiance to former president trump and the denial of the last election? tim: i don't think what sarah says is wrong. we certainly saw down ballot, the real power of dold trump's force in the election. we have a secretary of state nominee who is an election denier and will likely be the next secretary of state. but maybe i'm more optimistic. i still believe if we can get enough people of courage and integrity to stand up and really call truth, truth and a lie, a lie, we can change the direction of the republican party. it may not be the republican party of yesterday but it can be certainly a lot better than today. judy: sarah, how do you see that happening? what arguments do yo

but it's just not that same republican party of ronald reagan or john mccain. it is now every bit as flawed as its standard bearer, donald trump. >> pat cipollone has gone from standing on the senate floor opposing you in the impeachment trial of donald trump, the first one to now cooperating with the fbi, presumably telling the fbi everything he knows about the documents at mar-a-lago. we are seeing congresswoman cheney come close to a microphone, but what's your reaction to where pat cipollone is now with his cooperation of the fbi? we'll go to the congresswoman whenever she needs to speak. >> cipollone is indicative of many people in the trump administration in that, they finally got to a point where there's a line they wouldn't cross. but they crossed an awful lot of lines before that. he was one of the trump enabler, as one of the trump defenders, and we saw that during the impeachment trial when he told the senate there was no evidence of print quote print cuoco was being discussed. that's his history. at the same time, he wouldn't go along with it and in

that is the heart of the matter, that this is a republican party.blican candidates that are questioning the structures of our democracy and republican voters that are voting for them. we need to focus on this and that's why we're supporting democracy defenders up and down the ballot. >> let's talk about congressman peter major for a moment. he was one of ten republicans who voted to impeach donald trump for his actions on january the 6th. some democrats are backing his trump endorsed far-right opponent. talk us through your thoughts on this one. >> well, i think what you're seeing here, again, i can't speak to the specific strategy and to the data and details that others are looking at with this race, but this is one of the districts evident gotten more fair and redistricting. michigan was the congressional map in michigan, drawn by a commission. it's far better and fairer than it was last decade when it was during -- my republican legislature, so overall, this map is more fair, and this is a district that went from a biden 48 district to a biden 54

what has happened to that tradition in the republican party? >> money and the fact that we stopped voting in primaries in the way that we should, "we" being everybody, but particularly republicans, obviously. when you only have a 10% turnout, and that's what the average has been until recently -- 10% turnout of eligible voters in the primaries, that means you have the most partisan, and they tend to be a little bit on the extremes. and for a republican running in some of these districts, they have to worry. they don't worry about the general election because the way the districts are drawn, they just worry about the primary. and that's becoming even more true now in -- in the states in general elections. and i'm a supporter of ranked-choice voting. i think that's a way to force candidates to talk to everybody. that's where we've lost it is, now we've gotten to the point where the only thing that matters is bringing out your base, and, therefore, you need issues that excite that base. it means you hang on to controversial issues because they're t

>> because i did not feel that she represent ed the republican party.hat was right for wyoming residents. sorry, wyoming residents know what's right for wyoming residents. >> reporter: her stand made liz cheney donald trump's top target, as republicans in congress stripped her of her leadership position. >> the liz cheneys of the world, we've got to get rid of them. >> reporter: trump basically declared cheney a traitor because she voted to impeach him. >> she has gone crazy. people of wyoming are going to tell her, liz, you're fired, get out of here! get out of here! [ cheers ] >> reporter: even came to wyoming to campaign against her. >> this is the most important election that we have, right here, right here, state of wyoming. this is a symbol. gotta win, you gotta win. otherwise it's going to be a terrible thing for our country. >> reporter: trump's candidate, harriet haggerman, election denier and proponent of the big lie, won decisively. >> today, wyoming has spoken. [ cheers ] >> reporter: for months cheney has been behind in the polls. her fathe

if there were any lingering doubts about donald trump's hold on the republican party, they were erased tuesday night. liz cheney, trump's loudest and most persistent critic in the party and the number one target of his vengeance campaign, went down in a land side defeat. eight of the ten house republicans who voted to impeach him will be gone in the next congress. in state after state candidates endorsed by trump for governor, for senate and other offices have prevailed in republican pri primaries. they owe their nominations to trump and their allegiance, too. as trump tightens his grip on the party, the legal walls around him seem to be closing in. this week a federal judge in florida suggested he may release portions of the affidavit used to seek an fbi search warrant for mar-a-lago, a criminal investigation the justice department says is, quote, open and in its early stages. in new york, trump organization's chief financial officer is going to rikers prison after pleading guilty to a tax fraud scheme. trump once called allan weisselberg a loyal employee and one of the toughest peopl

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. >> we are going to talk about ron desantis and the future of the republican party. th us is adam good men, a republican strategist, veteran republican media and policy strategist very familiar with what goes on politically in florida. i'll come to the program. we sought -- welcome to the program. donald trump ron desantis jockey for position at of potential 2024 showdown. you have the two potential leading candidates both in florida. what are the strengths and weaknesses of both as presidential contenders. guest: you start with the former president, the strength is he has been there, done the job. the party base is still very firmly behind and excited about the former president. he now calls florida home. he used to brag that all roads to the white house lead to florida. it may actually be literally that in 24. in terms of the governor, governor desantis i think has the greatest story going, florida story. a sea of calm and positivity in the -- in covid. he's on his job of managing the state, the recent budget had record amounts for not just education and the environ

kurt, know, this is one of those times where i have to point out this party, the republican party, whichlly the maga party, they purport themselves to be pro-life, know. that's their term, not mine, anti-choice, but i just wonder how they reconcile that, that they are the party that's allegedly pro law enforcement, pro-life hand here they are putting the information of a child out there, a child and the school this child attends on the heels of yet another mass shooting that took the lives -- that claimed the lives of so many children. i just wonder how they navigate their own thought process and are so disillusioned with themselves. >> well, you know, my friend congressman eric swalwell says you can't be pro cop and pro coup at the same time, and that's exactly what they are. they walk around and masquerade with this term pro-life, but, again, we just saw in florida, somehow a child is not mature to have an abortion but is mature enough to be forced to carry baby to term. they say they are pro-life and all of them, every single one of them voted against the biggest climate change packag

while the republican party has this trumpian illiberal element, it's not a conservative element, it's an illiberal element, the democratic party seems in many respects being pulled farther to the left, considering the standards of the party, the justice democrat wing. there is a lot of concern that this country needs to find a better, more centrist path. and i think the big problem is there is not enough ideological diversity within both of our political parties today. there used to be that diversity, which had a moderating influence in our party. that is not the case anymore. and it is making governing that much more difficult. >> and caroline, cheney knows why she lost. as she points out, so, she won wyoming by 73% just two years ago. but donald trump's election lie is a path she could not and would not take. but that is not the case for most republicans, is it? they are totally on board with trump's election lie. why do the majority of republicans lack the courage that liz cheney? shows >> i think they want to hold their office, rosemary. i don't think a lot of republican leaders w

so yes, i do believe there needs to be a reboot of of the republican party and it starts by getting back to being a party based on our values and that formula for the for the gop has always been simple. it's been opportunity. excuse me. freedom leaves the opportunity opportunity leaves a growth growth leads to progress. and when we talk about those issues. then we can have some success and so yes, i think and and what is it going to take? it's going to take a complete blowout now i can make an argument losing 63 seats in what it was at 2018. should have been a wake-up call. right didn't and and so so but i think as an also an opportunity where the system can be shocked from the outside and because the opportunity of getting new voters into primary is fairly significant. the american dream. what's the still status of the american dream? look i think the american dream is is still bright and it's hopeful and the american dream is different things for different people and the fact that a young kid from north side of san antonio who had a big head size 13 shoe when he was in the fifth grade

donald trump has changed the republican party. g and everyone who operates within that stratosphere, and i think that is something for those republicans like joe was saying earlier who were getting worried about the party, liz cheney, adam kinzinger, this leads them with not a lot of places to go. because it's not about being conservative, it's about being worried about a deep state that we all know doesn't exist. >> jill, how does the law and order and back to blue party that the republican party tried to pretend it was at some point suddenly start chanting defund the fbi and now the iris. you have even some republicans making threats against fbi agents? >> this is all part of the subvert and disassemble. it started, let's go back to the mueller report, when barr went on air and said there is no obstruction, there is no collusion. and then finally when he released the actual report, you could see that that was a lie. it was a diversion and a disassembling. but it was too late because the first impression had already been made and

this does not have to be, the republican party does not have to be a party of white nationalism. alternative given after the republicans lost in 2012, and they did that autopsy that said you need to do a better job with black voters, with latino voters, with asian american voters. we saw it in the way that george w. bush reached out to latinos. it does not have to be this way. there was a choice that donald trump made to accentuate the worst instincts in the party. it is unfortunately what we are seeing with the likes of mastriano, with this ugliness slate of candidates in arizona. what we are seeing with desantis there in florida, but it is not the direction that the party has to go. >> dana milbank, and former congressman carlos curbelo, curbelo, i'm sorry. thank you both for being with us. coming up, and as russia's invasion of ukraine continues, we cannot forget the millions of refugees whose lives have been turned upside down by war. we will have an update on what is happening, and how to help. that is coming next. p. that is coming next. that is coming next. in three second

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cl clearly a lot of republicans are uncomfortable with where the party's going. republicans voted against the constitutional amendment on abortion. i think there are a lot of republicans out there, i'm guessing at least 30%, who are not comfortable with where this party is and want something better. look where cpac is. they've got these nativists, steve bannon, orban, and mike lindell. what is he there for? bannon had just been convicted for defying a congressional subpoena. they should change their name from cpac to ill pack. this is sick what they're doing. you always have these over the years where the polls are always win and they were going to win primaries but that's where cpac is these days. >> joe, you want to respond? >> jim, i love and respect my fo former colleague. no, this is where the republican party is. look who's winning republican primaries. election deniers left and right. all you've got to do is tune in to tucker carlson every single night you want to know where the typical republican voter is. hateful, bigoted, authoritarian nationalism. this

aisle, and others say this will test just how much of a hold that president trump has on the republican party. what are we thinking? president trump spent a fair amount of time campaigning against liz cheney, does that shape what we see tonight? >> absolutely, but if you think about it, 10 republicans who voted to impeach resident trump and of those 10 republicans, all but two are gone. either to retirement or through losing the election. so, former president trump has been very successful at dealing with his opposition and really getting rid of them. >> liz cheney has become such a big voice on the national level, is this the end of her political career, or is this just the beginning?>> she doesn't give a hint of walking away, she is a person who has got deep convictions. she believes her party is moving in the wrong direction. she believes her country is going in the wrong direction. and she's going to do everything she can to make sure she is heard to offer an alternative, particularly for what is going on in the republican party. i don't think she's about to go away quickly. >> so, what h

you know, to that larger point, there's no longer any doubt what the republican party is. ever vestiges the party had resisting trump have been wiped out with the exception of georgia. trump-backed candidates, election deniers have essentially run the table. not just trump loyalists, but in many cases, the most extreme versions of that. that's what make happened to liz cheney so epic. she not only lost yesterday. she lost by nearly 40 points. it was actually worse than it looks, because she clearly got a number of democratic voters who crossed over. so among republicans, this was even -- it was even uglier. so, as a never-trumper, i think there's no other -- there's no other thing to say other than, you know trump resisters in the republican party have been beaten. they was been routed. they have been pummelled, and you're seeing that. otherwise, liz cheney would have done better. so the question is, you know, what does she do now? i think that will be an interesting story. the idea that somehow the republican party can be recent reblgted from this, or has some rational cor

voters for the republican side were saying they wanted the party not only to support donald trump but also wanted republican candidates to be talking about things like the 2020 election. all of that other voters tell us is out of sync with what the larger electorate wants to talk about, the economy and inflation the number one issue. so it's not just that kind of rhetoric but it's the subject matter too. >> and you heard jaime harrison say the president has this tremendous set of applicators a accomplishments but our data show democrats aren't yet sold on that. >> no. they have a lot of ground to make up. >> they're not even sold on biden as a re-election candidate. >> yeah, that specifically. look, a president is always a factor as we've discussed. and biden is certainly a factor. the question is can they motivate democrats to actually go out and support him? and what we have seen, this is changing, but what we have seen so far is democrats a little bit more reluctant to do that than republicans who are sort of chomping at the bit to go and vote against joe biden. >> there's no one c

it's not your republican party of just a few years ago before donald trump came in and activated and uspect was already going on inside the party. it's not all trump. he was a catalyst, but it had to be there before he got there. >> eugene robinson, always great to talk with us. thank you for being on the program. >>> you've heard john fetterman, dr. oz, herschel walker, but what about sherry beasley? msnbc went on the trail with her, to learn why she thinking she can flip a seat from red to blue. e can flip a seat from red blue new astepro allergy. no allergy spray is faster. with the speed of astepro, almost nothing can slow you down. because astepro starts working in 30 minutes, while other allergy sprays take hours. and astepro is the first and only 24-hour steroid free allergy spray. now without a prescription. astepro and go. shouldn't body lotion do more than just moisturize? olay body lotion with vitamin b3 and collagen penetrates and hydrates to rejuvenate surface cells; so, skin looks firmer over time. with olay body, i feel fearless in my skin. >> tech: cracked windshield?

unbelievably, the state of the republican party is more crazy today than it was in january of 2020. don't take my word for it, look at the primary elections. bc republican senate candidates advance to the general election in november who promoted donald trump's election lies. later this hour, we will speak with the lieutenant governor of wisconsin, mandela barnes, to discuss why these extremist candidates endorsed by donald trump are now trailing democrats in the polls. extremism is also found in a place of the supreme court which stripped americans of the constitutional right to an abortion. now, americans are no longer guaranteed the right to an abortion in all 50 states. in at least ten states, they've imposed bans on abortion at any state of pregnancy with zero exceptions. >> with just 81 days until the midterms, these are real concerns. that should motivate democrats to go to the polls, but they should motivate people who are not democrats. conservatives. who do not want to live in a world where democratic norms are being a rodent by extremist republicans. donald trump's legal p

donald trump's capture on the republican party is total. and there really is nothing for never trumpers do at this point. it is not just trump anymore. we're never trumpers, but at this point it is the whole party. sdug mas doug mastriano, herschel walker. it is everybody that donald trump endorsed. so you have to defeat the ones that believe that the election was stolen, running on the election lies. they have to be defeated and only through sustained electoral defeat does the republican party have any incentive to come back from this incredible anti-democratic place it finds itself right now. >> and so listen to what liz cheney said last night about carrying on her fight against donald trump and trumpism. >> we must be very clear eyed about the threat we face and what is required to defeat it. i have said since january 6 that i will do whatever it takes to ensure donald trump is never again anywhere near the oval office and i mean it. >> she was able to do a lot and perhaps will continue to be able to do a lot as vice chair of the january

the problem with this is that many republicans who are ready to turn their back on donald trump because they see the difficulty he has posed on the party a more sympathetic person and republicans who were ready to say, donald trump, i'm done with you, they are looking at him as someone that they now want to support and he is essentially become a martyr because of what is happening with this. >> noah, take a step back even further than that. you are not so sure that the lame metaphor is the right metaphor here, you're looking at another object. >> there are distinct strains within the republican party, intellectual strains, i think we saw this come to the fore in the immediate wake of this search of mar-a-lago in part because we didn't have enough details to understand what actually happened here so we retreated to our priors. within the republican party there are two dispositions one the mike pence wing institutionalists regards themselves as the defenders of propriety and good working order of government and there's another wing of the republican that regard themselves as inn sur ex-naers, outside of institutions banging on the door t

maybe ron desantis is then the standard-bearer for the republican party. that is a steep hill to climb. she is the face of the opposition to donald trump and that includes republicans, democrats, and independents. it is her. because when you look at how democrats have operated, they want to stop talking about donald trump at times, because it hasn't helped them electorally. and so as she moves forward, as she works with this leadership pac, the great task, she's also going to be thinking about long-term, what is that organization that's going to fight trump and trumpism look like? and there is a lot of hope, and we saw this in 2016, if we can all remember that far, when we saw republicans hoping that someone was going to take down donald trump. the difference here is that republicans are putting their hands up saying, i will be, you know, the kamikaze candidate to ruin my political ambitions forp and his, if possible. it's hard to see, as every chance we get, republicans back donald trump. and some of his antics. you saw this with the fbi going to his home.

it was a group of people who felt vaguely toward the more conservative party, the republican party. but then like a benjamin israeli, a conservative, yeah, we are conservatives but we have to do things in order for society to stay whole, stay coherent. for people who have confidence when things are working for them. and so, specifically, it was modeled on a british organization called the bo group, which was part of a concern party there, the tory party, but it was a bridge between academic circles, policy world, and officeholders. so, the ripon society said that with this grand pretension with trying to do something like that within the republican party. that was what we tried to do. >> and it was on a ten point scale, it was the group of liberal inclined republican students, entirely? >> yes. grad students. young grad students. whatever. >> early, when it was founded ... >> in was actually starting to percolate in 1962. and it finally, it really clicked when kennedy was assassinated. we really looked at ourselves saying, what are we all about? and what should we do? and we found a

the republican party is what the party wants to be.t keeps saying this, over and over, and showing this over and over. and we have to accept that. the reason that they don't like liz cheney is because liz cheney was willing to lose which is the essential building block at any democratic system. and the republican party, therefore democracy when they want, and they're not for democracy when they lose, which means they're not for democracy. and that's the dividing line in american politics. it's not about right or left anymore. it's about, do you support a democratic system, or do you support an aquatic system? and i can't tell you how this is gonna turn out. i can tell you who's gonna win, but i know that there won't be an american experiment still flourishing, if the autocratic side winds. >> wow! we're gonna leave it there. that is a scary thought on a late tuesday night. nick troiano, peter baker, stuart stevens, thank you all. then peter and stewart, stick around. ahead on this programming, liz cheney will be doing an exclusive inte

see was really run over for the republican party only 2 years ago, many or thomas back you later that she might become a. 6 republican female president, obviously now with her $5.00 on that going to happen at this moment, but indeed she might run as an independent in 2024 that she will win the white house. but what she could do, she could feel donald on some rather moderate republican boat, and that would be kind of a revenge because that would make it difficult for him to go back into the white house in his pool in wyoming. many thanks. his reminder off the top story with following for you at this hour a series of explosions has rocked ukraine's and x, crummy, and peninsula in what's russia's defense ministry says is an act of sabotaged local officials, say a fire spock explosions acid, ammunition depot, injuring to people. and forcing thousands from their homes. ukraine has neither confirmed nor denied any attacks on crimea. and the runner up in kenya's presidential election has confirmed he will contest the results. delilah dingum says the chair of the electoral commission acted il