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richard clark, dick, thank you for coming back.n i was at abc news when we started this 20 years ago. you gave me a number of books to read when i first met you about you won't even remember because you were doing it for so many us. but the idea of what the taliban is because i was like well in afghanistan. you were like read the book. the taliban is not a bunch of people from afghanistan. you are hearing all the talks from the interpreters about them spe speaking pashtun. who is the taliban and what are they about? >> look, chris, they began in 1994 when the pakistani intelligence service wanted to get a group that could defeat all the warlords because in 1994 there were, like, six warlords in -- in afghanistan. all fighting each other. and pakistan wanted one government. and they didn't want any of the warlords to be in charge. so they found these religious fanatics that were going to some of the afghans but they were going to religious school in pakistan. and they trained them. they equipped them. they ran them. and they gave th

richard clark, thank you so much for the clear eyes. appreciate it. >> thank you. >>> it's not numbers. it's people, it's families, it's dreams and i want to introduce you to one of the people that we're talking about. okay? he volunteered to keep the united states troops safe as an interpreter. very, very important. they do a lot more than just language. his family is trapped in afghanistan. some of his relatives won't even have a chance to leave for days. he is scared. i want you to hear why he's scared and what he was told and what this will mean for him and his family. next. think wearing less makeup means no need for a wipe? think again. neutrogena® makeup remover wipes remove the 30% of makeup ordinary cleansers can leave behind. your skin will thank you. neutrogena®. for people with skin. millions of vulnerable americans struggle to get reliable transportation to their medical appointments. that's why i started medhaul. citi launched the impact fund to invest in both women and entrepreneurs of color like me, so i can realize my v

richard clark, thank you so much for the clear eyes. appreciate it. >> thank you. >>> it's not numbers. it's people, it's families, it's dreams and i want to introduce you to one of the people that we're talking about. okay? he volunteered to keep the united states troops safe as an interpreter. very, very important. they do a lot more than just language. his family is trapped in afghanistan. some of his relatives won't even have a chance to leave for days. he is scared. i want you to hear why he's scared and what he was told and what this will mean for him and his family. next. ♪ ♪ oh, focaccia! ah, there's no place like panera. enjoy the toasty, saucy chipotle chicken avocado melt on freshly baked bread. panera. order on the app today. ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ deposit, plan and pay with easy tools from chase. simplicity feels good. chase. make more of what's yours. mission control, we are go for launch. um, she's eating the rocket. ♪ lunchables! built to be eaten. i've got moderate to severe plaque psoriasis. now, there's skyrizi. with skyrizi, 3

. >> right now, we are joined by richard clark. he is currently chairman of the middle east institute. richard, thanks for being with us. if -- if intelligence suggests that another terrorist attack is, quote, likely what does one do? i mean, what tools do you have in a situation like this to keep afghans from dying? to keep u.s. service members from -- from dying? >> well, not enough. i -- i think it's pretty clear that the u.s. and its allies have some sort of intelligence stream coming from isis. they are somehow tapping into isis. they know what they're planning. they know what they're talking about. but that doesn't mean you can prevent it. you don't know what is going to happen, you don't know when, you don't know how which is very frustrating. if you know who, you can try to track them down. now, the u.s. can't track them down very readily. but the taliban might be able to. and the bizarre thing, anderson, about the way the u.s. has chosen to leave afghanistan is that we have become dependent on the taliban. dependent on them

richard clark. dick, it's good to see you again tonight. judge what you are seeing in here. >> well, chris, it's a debacle. and right now, let's just state the obvious. the people who decide how many americans get out and how many former employees of the united states get out. the people who decide that are the taliban. the general that you showed earlier said in his press conference today, we do not have the military capability to go into the city and get people and bring them out. so the people we are allowed to fly out are the people the taliban is willing to let us have. and how did we allow ourselves to be painted into that kind of corner? where the greatest power in the world that's the largest military and has spent trillions of dollars on its military is at the mercy of the taliban to decide who we're allowed to rescue. what did they think was going to happen? you know, the administration says well, we examined all sorts of scenarios. we had a plan for every scenario. you had a plan for this? what was your plan? your plan was to let

clark drafted a letter for rosen and his deputy that urged georgia officials to, quote, investigate and perhaps overturn president joe biden's victory in the state. but rosen's deputy, richard donoghue, rebuffed clark saying there is no chance that i would sign this letter or anything remotely like this. adding, quote, i cannot imagine a scenario in which already-certified election results should somehow be overridden by legislative action. both stories show that american democracy itself was hanging by a thread in the closing days of the last administration and that it was only a few government officials who held it together. the threat that this country faced and continues to face from trump's big lie was underscored today in a criminal hearing for one of the january 6th defendants. the judge in the case of karl dresch said the defendant came to the capitol because he placed his trust in someone who repaid that trust by lying to him. she told dresch that your vote doesn't count any more than anyone else's. you don't get to cancel them out. patriotism means loyalty to country, not to a single head of state. joining me now, michael steele, former chairman of the rnc, and da

nick clark, our environment editor. and richard allen is the author of chapter 8 of the i pay ccs report on water cycle changes. he says urgent action is needed to prevent the situation from getting even worse. so it's a comprehensive assessment of the science of climate change. and it paints a pretty bleak picture in terms of what's already happening as, as you've been showing with the wildfires, but also extreme events happening across the world hates in north america and southern europe and turkey and, but also extreme rainfall an associated flooding like we've seen in iran, in north korea recently, but also in europe and elsewhere. and it's only going to get worse unless we commit to strong rapid and sustained drug reductions in carbon dioxide and other greenhouse gases. some aspects of the climate system are reversible. if we limit the warming, then we will be able to limit the extreme events and the reduction in arctic sea ice and things like that. some aspects are going to be irreversible and these are the, the very slow par

sources former acting attorney general jeffrey rosen and former acting deputy attorney richard odonhue said that jeffrey clarkt's resources in support of false voting ing fraud claims by trumd tried to oust his bosses who were resisting trump. joining us is former attorney general alberto gonzalez. he is now the dean at belmont university college of law in nashville. attorney general, always a pleasure to you on. thanks so much. two things are going on here, number one, the former president himself leaning on the acting attorney general saying just say the election was corrupt and leave the rest to me and the republicans in congress. and then you have this guy who at the time was running the civil rights division. everyone was acting at that point. but a senior justice department official actively trying to overturn the election. that is what jeffrey rosen, who is the acting attorney general is now telling congress. how big of a deal is this? >> it's a pretty big deal, john. probably as big as it can get. before i get into that, let me just say, put me in the camp that believes that jeffrey smith and others l

donald trump had similar plans to fire jeffrey rosen and fire richard donahue and then to elevate jeffrey clark to be the a.g. so that that letter we now know could go out. this is scary as you point out. the thing that gnaws at me, it's all royal and good for the senate judiciary committee to pursue this and they should. it's all well and good for the department of justice inspector generals office which, initially evaluate whether or not individuals employees of the department of justice violated regulations or protocols or perhaps laws, but they are not a prosecutorial arm of the department of justice. the big question here is, what is going on with these allegations and the ongoing january 6th criminal investigation? it is clear that in the information that jeffrey rosen have, is that dj pac is gonna give next week or in a couple of days, relate to what happened on january 6th. we do know there is a massive criminal investigation related to january 6th, we don't know at this point whether that investigation has included any interviews with jeffrey rosen, or richard donahue, or vijay putt. w

jeffreyry clark who had no business interfering in the election, a guy we never heard of -- the part i left out here is that there was an underlying promise there if jeff rossen and richard donohue did not do the president's bidding, jeffreyy clark would have been a name every american knew because he might have become the attorney general of the united states. >> that's exactly right, ali. i think this all ties together. i think that -- i don't know this for certain. but i believe that b.j. pacs with a sacrificial lamb. president trump on a sunday meeting with top people at the justice department and the white house was furious, had promised the ag job to jeffreyy clark wanted to get rid of the acting attorney general, jeffreyy rosen. too many jefferies in this story. he wanted to fire somebody. i think b.j. pac was the sacrificial lamb because the president was told if he fired rosen and installed jeffrey clark that the entire hierarchy of the justice department remaining hierarchy of the justice department would resign. and i think you got it exactly right. we have focused properly on the coup we saw unfold before our eyes on january 6th. but there was a slow motion c

we can put up on the screen, jeffrey rosen, richard donahue was his acting attorney general. jeffrey clarktly willing to do his bidding. is there criminal activity here? as congress looks into this, do you see the potential for either the former president or those around him trying to help him, do they have criminal ku culpability? >> i fall on senator blumenthal's side. i think there's criminality here that needs to be investigated by the justice department, but this is an important distinction. the report is that jeffrey rosen has been talking to congress, which can't bring criminal charges. they can refer it, but can't bring criminal charges. but also the justice department inspector general, however, the inspector general does not bring criminal charges either. they do internal discipline and review. so according to the reporting, jeffrey rosen is not talking to the part of doj that can bring criminal charges right now and that's where merit garland i think needs to step up. he needs to make sure there's a criminal investigation of this happening at doj. we don't see any evidence that

also had courage and integrity in acting attorney general rosen and his deputy, richard done a hurks and how about jeffrey clark ready to be the henchman for donald trump, next time, it may be that we have more clarks than rosens or vindmans. i think we need to take a strong stand that it's a crime against the united states and certainly we need to make sure that the evidence is there, but prosecutors always deal with, number one, can we charge based on the evidence, but number two, should we charge? is there a substantial federal interest that needs to be vindicated and i can think of no interest than our democracy. >> there's more clarks already. and the vindmans have been purged, including yourself. good luck with the book. you are a hero for what you did for your country, thank you very much, and we appreciate you. always appreciate you both. all right, and the book again is here, right matters. still ahead, missouri governor, displayed some, you know, interesting priorities. by pardoning the gun toting mcclawskys and not the two black men that the prosecutors say -- c [sfx: radio being tuned] welcome to al

lose his job, that the president was thinking about replacing him with jeff clark, something we now know from notes that richard donahue took had been on the president's mind for days before january 3rd when there was a showdown at the oval office between the two jeffs and a variety of other justice department officials who informed the president they were to remove jeff rosen and replace him with jeff clark that they would all quit. which would subsume the justice department and the white house with chaos and take the public's eye about trump's claims about false election. it helped convince the president not to make that move. but again it is another example of how close the republic came to being pushed into chaos that would have further called into doubt the results of the election. >> this is just wild. we have known each other a lot of years. this is just wild. i encourage people to follow your reporting on this. this is what real reporting is. you have figured out every part of the story from what was going on behind the scenes to the stuff that happened that caused people to go to the united states cong

i think because of honorable people like jeffrey rosen and his deputy, richard donahue, and we saw in the reports that jeffrey clark who was the acting attorney general for the civil division was only too happy to try and help, so it does seem we narrowly skated away from something that could have been absolutely historic and tragic in terms of free democracy. i think the next step needs to be to tell the story. they reported this information to the inspector general of the justice department and the senate judiciary committee will no doubt continue to investigate and uncover the facts. if that is true that president trump was trying to break the doj and use it. possibly even racketeering, and all of those things need to be considered. >> i want to circle back to gop hypocrisy when it comes to, quote, law and order. she argues a party should not be trusted with power. especially as we see republic-led states try to change election rules in their favor. >> it's important to note that this is part of a pattern, what trump allegedly did with the doj is something he did with the department of homeland security. having

and we know that rosen and his deputy richard donoghue, they refused to sign onto those letters. but now, jeffrey clarkessional investigators. sources told us, that when rosen testified, he talked about five episodes work clark went out of the chain of command of doj to push these fraud claims. and trump and clark were indirect communication. that something totally out of the norm for officials other than the attorney general at doj. and we also know that in this testimony this weekend, rosen and donoghue told lynn lawmakers that trump, he never ordered them to do anything illegal and trump eventually accepted their advice. that doj could claim fraud when they have zero evidence of it but still, they remain a lot of questions about who else at the white house might have been part of this push to get doj involved in pushing these false election fraud claims, and potentially what other schemes might have been in the works. so erica, this might be the tip of the iceberg, what we've already seen come out, there needs to be a lot more testimony that the senators are pushing for in particular, they want to h

so clark wanted the acting attorney, jeffrey rosen and his deputy, richard donoghue to sign off on thisr and it falsely stated that doj found voting irregularities that impacted the election outcome in several states. what we're seeing in subsequent emails that accompanied this letter is how rosen and donoghue stopped this effort. they said there was no widespread election fraud. that's something the a.g. bill barr publicly stated and there was no basis for this letter drafted by jeffrey clark to be sent to georgia or any other state. donoghue put it in black and white and said this. there is no chance i would sign this letter or anything remotely like this. so the letter was never sent but it is part of a trove of evidence that lawmakers and likely the doj inspector general are sifting through to uncover the lengths that trump and his allies went to to push their claims of election fraud. this likely won't be the last we hear or last documents we get. doj has told trump officials that they can cooperate. we might get more documents that show how far the white house and trump went to pu

richard donoghue at the time. and the guy who wrote it, jeff clark, the head of the civil division, at the time.ed with clark that they should sign this and send it, think about what that would have meant. there, of course, would have been a national clamor that the u.s. justice department had declared the election to be corrupted, potentially fatally so. the georgia republican legislature, if trump was right -- if -- if trump was right that they were onboard with this, they're on our side. and they -- if he was right, they would have tried to call themselves into special session to -- to, what, try to recall the state's biden electors from the electoral college. instead, consider whether the other slate, meaning the trump slate, should have been sent, instead. so, jeff clark sent over this draft letter, dated december 28th. he also sent over an e-mail, accompanying the letter, to the attorney general and the deputy attorney general. in that e-mail, he spelled out exactly that the plan was to do this, not just in georgia but, in multiple states. it says quote, the concept is to send it to the go

clark. he's writing the letter to other trump loyalists but they pushed back because of how absurd the letter is. one of the things richarde department don't advise states as to how to handle their election certification processes. this is simply a misunderstanding and an abuse of the power of the justice department and clark clearly didn't understand that and did not have the justice department's interests at heart. so, you know, i think we should also -- yes, there are reasons to criticize both jeffrey rosen and richard donoughe, the two people to whom this was sent because they were complicit in any number of let's say untoward actions of the justice department, but they knew enough to know that this was nonsense and it was not rooted in law and should never have happened. and they put the brakes on it. >> and there's reporting out there that indicates kwlarks eager to get them out of the way to do trump's bidding, too. margaret, the house oversight committee reportedly had this and other doj documents that were then turned over to the january 6th committee so they can continue to work. what's your sense of how this ev

jeffrey rosen and his deputy richard donahue, were pushing back on trump's attempts to use the justice department to undermine the election, they were unaware that mr. clark, jeffrey clark, had been introduced to president trump by a pennsylvania politician, and that clark had told the president he agreed that fraud had affected the election results. basically, he auditioned for the president and let him know that he would be a trigger man for donald trump's attempt to kill off american democracy in its present form. that is not hyperbole. clark met with trump, he schemed with trump, and he drafted the document i talked about. it's this letter. it's still letter that the georgia governor and a drafted for rosen and donahue to sign, officially from the u.s. department of justice. it says in part, the department of justice is investigating various irregularities in the 2020 election for the president of the united states. at this time, we have identified significant concerns that may have impacted the outcome of the election in multiple states, including georgia. while the department of justice agrees the governor of georgia should immediately call a specia

of the private testimony of richard do donahue but in general terms, how much closer do you believe congress is learning the full scope of trump and one loyalist, jeffrey clark we are getting closer to the full range of trump's big lie and his use of the department of justice like it was his own law firm. jumping over the attorney general, acting attorney general and trying to get them to push out the big lie. we are closer to getting to the truth. by the way, this is important because the big lie still going on with all of these voter suppression bills being considered in the legislatures. >> so many people sadly buy the big lie. >> yes. >> there's new reporting that jeffrey clark was actually given a high level intelligence briefing by trump's own appointee as director of national intelligence was told directly. there was no evidence of foreign interfeerrence in the election which clark had by trying to float at the doj. there was no information that would convince him otherwise. >> jeffrey clark is turning out to be trump's guy in the department of justice. he tried to replace the attorney general with this person, it would have been disasterous. thank go

clark and things could have turned out very differently, couldn't they? >> yeah, a lot of credit goes here to jeffrey rosen to richardhad a very up and down term as deputy attorney general but here he absolutely did the right thing and it's an important reminder of the importance of the justice department as a check on the run away powers of the president and i think it's so important that we not go numb here because we've seen so much reporting on this and it's sort of started to become a drum beat. we see that the president tried to weapon nize doj to steal thi election. there is nothing normal and acceptable. it's an act of disloyalty by donald trump, rey clark. it needs to stick with them for history and there needs to be real consequences. >> jeffrey clark is the trump loyalest at the center of this and abc news has gotten a letter showing he tried to meddle in the georgia election. he was vying for the job in the hours long oval office meeting jessica describes as "apprentice" style and wants to replace him with clark and trying to overturn the election there. the on consequences of all of t could have been inc

general, richard donahue and the former acting attorney general, jeffrey rosen, spoke to the judiciary committee this weekend. they told lawmakers another trump-appointed doj official, jeffrey clarkesident trump's claims. jessica schneider joins us from washington. what else are we learning about this testimony? >> it was robust and illuminating testimony. it amounted to about seven hours for rosen, six hours for donahue. we know that rosen sat with the doj inspector general this weekend, too. our sources are telling our team that rosen and donahue focused on their interactions with trump but also jeffrey clark. in particular, detailing how clark subverted the chain of command at doj at least five times to push these false claims of fraud untron trump's behalf. clark insisted that chinese intelligence used special kinds of thermometers to change results in machines tallying votes, something that was false. and when the director of national intelligence at the time rebutted those claims in a briefing, clark wouldn't believe him. so we learned that. there were also new revelations in this testimony over the weekend about trump and how much he actually pressured the acting a.g., jef

attorney general richard donoghue both sitting down for interviews with the senate judiciary committee and we're learning they shed new light on one specific former doj lawyer, jeffrey clarkt the election, including his efforts to get them fired for refusing to back up trump's lies about the 2020 election. cnn has learned that rosen and donahue both told investigators they don't know whether clark was acting on trump's orders. they have also told investigators apparently that trump himself never instructed either of them to do anything illegal. >>> well, the $1 trillion infrastructure bill clears another hurdle, closer to a senate vote. 18 republican senators joined democrats to shut down debate on the bill and to just move it forward. among them was senate minority leader mitch mcconnell. >>l >> the american people need roads, bridges, ports, and airports to build our businesses, build our families, and build our liechs. republicans and democrats have radically different visions these days, but both those visions include physical infrastructure that works for all of our citizens. >> a rare moment of bipartisanship. let's get to jasmine wright, live in wilmington, delawar

attorney general richard donoghue both sitting down for interviews with the senate judiciary committee and we're learning they shed new light on one specific official. former doj lawyer jeffrey clark. and the lengths that clark went to do subvert the election, including his efforts to get his bosses fired for refusing to back up trump's lies about the 2020 election. cnn has learned that rosen and donahue both told investigators they didn't know whether clark was acting on trump's orders. they apparently also told investigators that trump himself never instructed them, either of them, to do anything illegal. >>> coming up, hospitals are being pushed to the brink again as coronavirus cases are skyrocketing. we are talking to a woman whose husband is in the icu right now. her message to all of us. centrum multigummies aren't just great tasting... they're power-packed vitamins... that help unleash your energy. loaded with b vitamins... ...and other key essential nutrients... ...it's a tasty way to conquer your day. try centrum multi gummies. now with a new look. is olay better than your clean beauty? olay has 99% pure niacinamide. it's derm-tested. and now, it's cleanest formula with

richard donaghue said, there is no chance that i would sign this letter or anything reprmotely le this. and rosen said, i confirmed again today that i am not prepared to sign such a letter. clarkthe job, rosen remained on the job until president biden was inaugurated on january 20th. but, wolf, it really just goes to show you the efforts beyond what we know the president was doing and his lawyers were doing, some of these extraordinary crazy claims that they were making inside the justice department. these officials, who were basically standing tall, were trying to prevent chaiyasombat -- chaos from ensuing. >> i'm glad they did. evan perez with excellent, excellent reporting. david axelrod is with us, cnn legal and national security analyst. carrie cordero is with us also. what do you think about laying this groundwork for a coup? >> to the extent there is anyone out there who doesn't think former president trump was actually trying to undermine and overturn the election, this is the latest piece of evidence demonstrating that, in fact, that is what he was doing. so in this case, there now is more information in terms of these memos and other communications, notes, that the f

clark figure the environmental several lawyer who evidently was in cahoots with trump. did he play any role in this? the night before you resigned the deputy acting deputy attorney general richardwhat was discussed? most importantly, bjp resigned on january 4th and the day after it was revealed that trump had pressured georgia secretary of state ross and burger to find the 11,780 votes. i want to know what the reaction was to that. was his reaction -- resignation anyway related to that? >> it does seem between rows, in bjp, awkward getting's mansour's. everything is leaked and that's how we're finding it out but they are all saying that they were told to do something that was either at best wrong, and at worst highly illegal. one happens now? how does this unfold in your opinion. where does this go next? it feels to me this has to exist outside the political realm and go into the criminal realm. >> 100%. there are some hunters we know and some we don't. we know donald trump filed a bunch of bogus lawsuits. we know donald trump held the pap rally on january 6th. we know trump manoeuvred with jeffrey clark this lower level justice department officials to try to throw the election

richard donoghue in a phone call. he pressured them to declare that the election was corrupt, something of course they both refused. but the pressure continued that next day with that draft letter from jeffrey clarkended to georgia asl's lawmakers that they assemble this special election to investigate voter fraud. and clark said, i think we should get it out as soon as possible. personally i see no valid downside to sending out the letter. but an hour later very promptly donoghue sent back a lengthy rebuttal saying this, there is no chance that i would sign this letter or anything remotely like this from where i stand, this is not even within the realm of possibility. and the acting a.g. sending donoghue an email that said, i confirmed again today that i am not prepared to sign such a letter. so in the end this letter was never sent. but it is part of this trove of evidence that lawmakers as well likely the doj inspector general, they are all sifting through it to uncover the lengths that trump and his allies went to push their claims of election fraud to hopefully get the election overturned, in their view. and this probably won't be the last that we hear. the doj has told trump officials they

richard donahue, he was in for five hours on friday. yesterday, seven hours. that was jeff rosen. and what rosen specifically was talking about was a subordinate of both of these men. a man named jeffrey clarkhe number three level at the justice department. an environmental lawyer who was trying to get the justice department to substantiate these election fraud claims as well. trying to get the justice department to take steps publicly to support what trump wanted. now those five episodes we know a little bit of the details of those, but we don't actually know any new information that may have been presented from jeff rosen or richard donahue to the committee. that was something that dick durbin, the senate judiciary chairman, declined to expand on this morning, but this is what he did say to dana on cnn. >> just how directly personally involved the president was. the pressure he was putting on jeffrey rosen, it was real. very real. and it was very specific. this president's not subtle. the former president. he's not subtle when he wants something. it's a good thing for america that we had a person like rosen in that position who withstood the pressure. >> and durbin also said that the comm

clark's plotting to investigators. in two separate interview, he told the justice department watchdog and congressional investigators that one of his deputies tried to help donald trump subvert the results of the 2020 election. richard blumenthal sat in on this testimony and said the american people should hear what he heard. >> they deserve to know what we have heard so far. which amounts to a chilling and shocking picture of a president seeking to corrupt the department of justice and overthrow an election. >> yet today, eight months later, donald trump and jeffrey clark, the guy who tried to overturn the election, they are not behind bars. they're not facing any criminal charges. they're not even considered pariahs. clark just landed a cushy job at the right wing civil liberties alliance, suing universities and trying to get the eviction moritorium lifted. again, i ask why hasn't the justice department gone after clark or trump? we already have so much evidence that the then president incited the insurrection and called in during the attack, begging him to call off the dogs. this is how jamie raskin summed it up. >> the president said, well, kevin, i guess these people, meaning the mobsters, are more upset about

richard donahue, the principle associate deputy attorney general who was also in on that meeting. now, the very next day, december 28th we learn trump loyalist and former head of the d.o.j. civil rights division jeffrey clarka road map for republicans in georgia and five other states to flip the election outcome. ten days later a violent group of the expresident's supporters attacked the capitol in a desperate attempt to prevent congress from certifying the election results. joining me now, katie benner of the "new york times," he's an msnbc contributor. katie, you have literally been piecing all this together because you have been