richard herman, thanks so much.> take care. >> thanks so much. >> listen, yeah, an accident chloroform overdeuce just to keep her quiet which led to death is also going to be murder and that's what's going to sway any of those remaining jurors, i think. >>> moving on our sound effect is from a courtroom thousands of miles away. a defendant on trial for thousands of deaths. rad co mladic committed general know side in the 1980s. he was on the run for 15 years. today before a criminal tribunal, mladic refused to enter a plea. but had a lot to say otherwise. here's the way it went down in the hague. >> you're charged with genocide, punishable under article 43-a. >> no, no, i'm not going to listen to this. i'm not going to listen to this at all. without my lawyer, i'm not going to listen any more. you're talking in vain. i'm not going to listen to anything. >> mr. mladic, mr. mladic, mr. mlad mladic. the court orders you be removed from the courtroom. could security -- >> still defy and. well, the judge entered a not gu

avery friedman, richard herman, thanks so much. we'll sew you agae you again in.ou brought up the name casey anthony, richard. there is something more to talk about in that case. the judge apparently presiding over that has issued new orders impacting the jurors in that case. [ male announcer ] sitting, waiting, hoping. that's not how successful investing is done. at e-trade it's harnessing some of the most powerful yet easy to use trading tools on the planet to help diversify, identify opportunities, take action. it's using professional grade research and your brain to seek maximum returns to reach your goals. it's investing with intelligence and cold hard conviction. you made the money. you should have everything you need to invest it. e-trade. investing unleashed. >>> taking a look at the top stories right now. dna evidence is the focus of testimony today in the appeal for american college student amanda knox. court-appointed experts say they have serious doubts about the evidence used to convict knox of killing her british roommate. but police are denying accu

on the phone from cleveland, avery friedman, and from las vegas richard herman. richard, you first. is the behavior of the attorneys upstaging the closing arguments for today? >> i'll tell you, fred, i've been watching this trial every single day. and i would challenge this judge to review the videotape because at every single tape, you can see ashton in the background either laughing or smirking or shaking his head no. and that goes from day one from the baez opening. he shakes his head no. he is in full view of the jury. handy is absolutely going to turn off some jurors with that conduct. >> so that's a big no-no. how influential would that be? >> he was certainly in the heat of the moment, fred. a crescendo in his summation. he turns around, and there is ashton smiling again. so he was inappropriate. the judge halted the proceedings. it hurt baez a little bit. but i really believe, avery, i believe some of those jurors will really be emboldened by that. they will like baez for his tenacity. he is fighting for his client with whatever he has. and he is bringing everything he has h

avery friedman and richard herman are back with us. richard, you first.been sentenced to 26 years in connection with murder. now on monday, these forensic experts will start three days of dna and related testimony. so what can she hope for that hasn't already occurred? >> what you can hope for is the fact that her defense experts are claiming that the dna relied upon for her convictions was either contaminated or unreliable. they're claiming that based on that, her conviction should be overturned because that was the essence of the evidence against her and therefore she should be set free. the problem with that argument is that as the prosecution's case did not solely rely on dna, there was other evidence that was presented which led to her conviction. so even if the dna is struck from the record, she still has a mountain of evidence which convicted her. i don't know if this is going anywhere. it looks like they're bending over backwards to try to give her a break. but i just don't see it happening right now. >> avery, you're disagreeing with everything t

our legal guys are back, avery friedman and richard herman. this is stunning, is it not, avery?after him immediately, within hours of the accuser launching these allegations. so they didn't vet the story? they just went after him, took him off a plane. he was a suspect, indicted him and now there are holes in the story. how remarkable is this? >> yeah. it blew up. i think this is the most electrifying legal development of the year. i'm not going to be critical, by the way, of the prosecution. they had forensics. they really didn't have a choice. this guy was gone. and the fact is that the opportunity for prosecution to develop the case, to get to it the grand jury was a relatively short window. but to its credit, they said, there are such credibility issues, that if we're going to do justice at least in meeting its burden beyond a reasonable doubt, the case must win. and cyrus vance did the right thing. >> what's going on here, richard? avery underscored, yes, there is forensic evidence substantiating that something -- there was some sort of contact between these two, or at leas

avery friedman in cleveland and richard herman in las vegas.ot their math right because first they thought she'd be out wednesday. now they recalculated. looks like next sunday she'll be out of jail. but her legal problems are not over, are they, richard? >> no, they're not over. by the way, as far as the calculations go, fred, my calculations i confirm with a judge in orlando as well as a bureau of prison personnel, she should be out already. this all may be a ruse. people are threatening to kill her. who knows what's going on down there? >> maybe for her own protection? >> i think so. let's see what happens. >> okay. clearly there are some problems with the relations in the family. we saw that. while some were taking the stand and even after the fact, she may not necessarily want to go straight home or be welcomed to go straight home, avery. >> right. >> so when she does get out of jail, there are other legal cases that might come to the surface. a civil case by this nanny or this woman that was named as the nanny, casey anthony blaming that

and richard herman, criminal defense attorney and law professor joining us from las vegas. lo to both of you. richard, we heard david mattingly talking about all the precautions being taken to make sure this is a clean sense of freedom for casey anthony as she will be released somewhere after midnight sunday. and there will be photographers that are kind of embedded. we'll get a chance to see her leaving and maybe getting into a vehicle. is this normal or is this what is to be expected when you have a high-profile case like this? protecting this departure? >> well, fred, they have an obligation to protect her if there are credible threats against her. and apparently they've agreed that there have been credible threats. so they're going to try to whisk her away in the wee hours of the morning. in fact, she may even go sometime this evening or she may be gone already. we don't know. like david said, where, when and how, just like in the trial when they didn't know how she was murdered, this is the situation on her release today. i do not believe they're going to get a live rep

fornler prosecutor holly hughes, she's here with me in atlanta, and criminal defense attorney richard herman joins us from las vegas. so, what happened today? richard, i'll start with you. is it what you expected? >> it pretty much -- kind of what i expected. i'm sure the judge is taking vengeance out on her right now. i think what we left out of that clip is now we'll speak to bureau of prisons to calculate her time. since i was so stellar in my prediction of the outcome of the verdict, and i'm in las vegas, i'm going to double down and say this -- i think she's going to be released today when they get those results in. when you are arrested for seven crimes and you go to prison, you begin to get credit for each day you're in prison. she's getting credit now for 900 days if prison. those misdemeanor counts are one-year maximum sentences. she's already maxed out on all four of those. it's irrelevant today that the judge stacked the sentence. i really believe, when bureau of prisons gets together with them today, she is going to be released this afternoon. >> holly, what do you -- do you thin

with that, richard herman, you are standing by for me. richard herman, are you surprised not a single one of those 12 jurors wants to walk into that room and explain his or her point of view and division? >> you know, brooke, i tried a federal case, an 11-month jury trial and we were prohibited to speaking to the jurors afterwards. i expected this. i was surprised they would hold a press conference. this case was too emotional. some of their lives could be at stake, these jurors. i think they made the right decision right now. down the road maybe they will give interviews. right now they have to get out of dodge safely. an amazing decision today. she is acquitted. she is not guilty. no matter what you think. i was floored because, you know, look, she is innocent, and i apologized for my remarks and my criticisof baez which i would make of any lawyer, as well as cheney mason. but in any event, listen, this little girl was last seen with casey, and for 30 days she lied and lied and lied about this little girl. i mean, she's innocent. she's

we were talking to richard herman earlier who said the sniffer machine is junk.is a nurse. her father a homicide detective. the tow truck driver smelled decomposing bodies, the lead detective, all those folks and more said it is the smell of human decomposition. i've been on scenes with decomposed bodies. let me tell you something, you don't forget it and mistake it for rotten pizza. >> thank you. we'll be watching, ten minutes away now. that court case is going to resume and we'll be paying close attention. >>> nba players are locked out, one of basketball's greatest, if the labor fight is going to sink the season. kareem abdul-jabbar is in the cnn news room. [ male announcer ] you sprayed them. thought they were dead. [ laughter ] [ grunting ] huh? [ male announcer ] should've used roundup. america's number one weed killer. it kills weeds to the root, so they don't come back. guaranteed. weeds won't play dead, they'll stay dead. roundup. no root. no weed. no problem. oh, we call it the bundler. let's say you need home and auto insurance. you give us your inform

. >> i want to bring richard herman, a criminal defense attorney, he's been following the trial with and joins me now from las vegas. hi, richard. give us some perspective if you can. i mean, it was like watching judge perry trying to break up an argument you might see in a schoolyard. i mean, what is the deal here? >> he is obviously so frustrate ing because we knew the prosecution was going to be very quick and apparently, baez in learning that some of the defense experts, some of the prosecution experts are going to provide opinions not contained in their reports was forced to bring that to the attention of the judge and there's a rule that if an expert testifies, it must be contained in a written report and baez is proper in making this objection. the judge is saying, look, this bert be real because ashton said you know, jnlg, some of these findings were contained in the reports issued a year or two ago. the judge is saying, look, i got a jury. they want to go home for the holiday. they're sequestered. you're making them stop and go back to their rooms. i had enough. we're going t

the last time the close of team was in the cool down richard herman flock from all over the world out a few centimeters to their self-confidence if this time archie goes to the on the region if where the girls were still gets people like took her in to try flights to save its culture look where cranes are protected and the first to own the fischel nature reserve to complete coverage of. russia close up on the party. marsh's let me assume which writer. evolves from months to pressure. has. starts on t.v. dot com. the headlines on r t under the guns for hire company accused of killing seventeen innocent iraqis goes on trial in the u.s. but only on accusations of over billing blackwater now known as z. allegedly charged too much for protecting u.s. officials in a war zone. no way releases the names of victims from friday's twin attack as experts warn the spread of anti islamic sentiment in europe could lead to more atrocities. nato led peacekeepers are deployed along the coast of those northern border with serbia to calm escalating ethnic tensions over attempts to enforce a trade embargo

plus time to close to losing the cool down richard herman flock from all over the world to out a few centimeters to their self-confidence if this time marty goes to the onboard reach if for the gold rush still gets people like joe cool or an agent try flights to save its culture look where cranes are protected in the first on the fictional nature preserve. books of the original. bush a close up on the artsy. the are. just so. the same pitch the same. wealthy british style. the tightness of. the. market why not. come to. find out what's really happening to the global economy with much stronger for a no holds barred look at the global financial headlines tune into cars a report on our cheap. it's. c. c c. c. k. the guns for hire company accused of killing seventeen innocent iraqis goes on trial in the u.s. but only on accusations of overbilling blackwater now known as allegedly charged too much for protecting u.s. officials in war zones. norway releases the names of victims from friday's twenty attack as the suspects lawyer says he's client is unaware and killed seventy six people some

the last time the close of team was in the cool down richard herman flock from all over the world out a few centimeters to their self-confidence if this time our t.v. goes to the on the reach if for the cold war still gets people like joe took her in to try flights to save its culture look where cranes are protected in the first down on official nature reserve. to the original . bush a close up on the party. can . welcome back you know about to remind you we're talking about extremism in europe. you can. see. ok as on i go back to you in a comment that you made before we went to the break about how the media and al qaeda it's quite interesting that in the fifteen hundred page manifesto that was left behind there was an enormous amount of admiration actually for al qaeda because of its tactics i mean that is going to be one of the greatest irony is that all this considering that media and many politicians including the united states and simply said this is al qaeda or al qaeda like operation this is this telling us they were missing this is a huge security lapse and on the part of west

richard herman is joining us to weigh in on the story.een speaking to holly hughes, and diane and david mattingly outside the courthouse. you have been in this position as a defense lawyer. describe it to me. it has to be excruciating. >> cannot describe it. i stand up next to men, powerful men, and supreme businessmen controlling hundreds of employees and businesses, and they are quivering in their pants standing there. when that jury comes in and you know it's coming down, and your life is at stake, you can't get a breath in you. your heart is punching through your chest. i will tell you the truth and i am sure the other lawyers will tell you if they take the verdicts. when i stand there and take the verdict, the same thing is happening to me. it's absolutely -- it's a surreal experience. and this is going to be bad for her. this is absolutely going to be murder. and she's got to know it. somebody had to have told her if they came back this quick it's going to be murder. no way out for her. >> do you see a series of appeals coming down?

our legal guys, avery freedman and richard herman weighed in earlier. >> from 800 newlyweds are goinge the knot in new york city. it's going to be quite festive and gay in new york city tomorrow. that's all i can tell you. they can do it in the state of new york. like you're talking, fred, many, many states do not recognize this. the federal government does not recognize this. you know what happens when there's a conflict between federal law and state law. federal law always wins. they cannot file joint tax returns. they cannot get spousal benefits. there's a lot of, lot of, lot of problems. there's a lot of litigation that's going to arise as a result of this. >> fredricka? >> yes. >> fredricka, is fredricka asking if a minister has to perform it? >> right. because i thought there was some institutions that have already said we are not going to perform a marriage even though the state law says that it is allowed in new york. >> yeah. the answer is that -- what? they're not compelled. the only thing that gay people are entitled to do if they want same-sex marriage is to go to a govern

earlier i asked our legal guy civil rights attorney avery friedman and criminal defense attorney richard hermanout the other legal cases that anthony could face. >> the amazing thing about that, fredricka, is everybody was assuming, including us, that there was going to be a conviction. so when zenaida gonzalez, zanny the nanny, bought her defamation act, it struck me as principle but futile. now casey anthony will be making a lot of money and indeed she has already been noticed for a deposition by the lawyer of gonzalez. and so that case actually has merit because casey published a falsity, said that gonzalez engaged in a felony. you know, criminal kidnapping. so it is going to be one of a number of things that we're going to be looking at. >> does it matter? >> casey anthony is far from out of the woods. >> does it matter whether they knew each other or not, that apparently, richard, if there is no relationship, they didn't know each other they were strangers, there really is no case, just an arbitrary name. >> this case is going to be dismissed. casey couldn't talk while the criminal case wa