king with roy wilkins. to david's point, you saw dr.ing so poised and unflappable facing questions of potential violence in washington. but there was tension about the value of that kind of demonstration, mass demonstration in the street, and how it made african-americans look and appear to a largely white america. >> it's ironic that people don't understand mrs. king, who i've got to know well -- i was too young to know dr. king -- talked about how controversial he was during his lifetime and those tactics of randolph and rustin. people always said, you're causing violence, stirring things up, and you're moving too fast, and i think that upon his death people gave him credit for things that he never heard in life. and in many ways we hear today some of the same kinds of attacks. certainly no one's on the scale that they were, but the same kinds of things, that why don't y'all do it another way, when these are the ways you dramatize the problem. marches are not set to solve a problem. they're set to show the problem and force someone to

and at one point, i said to roy wilkins, i said, "mr. wilkins, this speech represents the young people in the student nonviolent coordinating committee and all of the people, indigenous people in alabama and georgia and mississippi and all across the south." and he sort of walked away, sort of backed off. then, mr. randolph and dr. king came back and said -- dr. king said, "john, this doesn't sound like you." and mr. randolph said something like, "we come this far together, john. let's stay together." and i couldn't say no to a. philip randolph. i couldn't say no to martin luther king, jr. >> so you agreed to some changes. you took out the words criticizing the president's bill as being too little and too late. you took out the call to march through the heart of dixie the way sherman did. you took out the question asking which side is the federal government on. you took out the reference to some political leaders as "cheap," and you took them out, you're saying, because you were on the team, and because you honored a. philip randolph and

and roy wilkins, whitney young and others. who's off way over to the side? martin luther king. in fact, i think we have the speaking program from august 28, 1963. i think we can put this up. there you go. number 16 in order, somebody named reverend dr. martin luther king jr. robert, that was -- we're going to get to king a little later. we intentionally not talked about him for now for this precise point, that until he stood on the steps of lincoln monument and made that speech, he was not going to be the star of the day. in fact, i think "the washington post" the day after, like in their 16 reports the day after the march, didn't really -- didn't do a story on martin luther king's speech. that wasn't supposed to be what people were there to hear. >> a lot of people missed it. although i went back the other day and looked at the coverage the associated press did in new orleans, for example. and king's speech, while it was completely absent from the pages of "the washington post," was on the front page of the new orleans times pacayne. i think up to that point the real story was

martin luther king, jr., and naacp director at the time, roy wilkins from 50 years ago. the previous months were tumultuous ones in the civil rights movement. images of brutality were widely publicized. police turned fire hoses and attack dogs on demonstrators in birmingham. the ncaap medgar evers was murdered in june in jackson, mississippi. it was against that back drop that a fearful nation's capitol prepared for the march on washington. one official said it was like getting ready for d-day and now "meet the press" from august 25, 1963, three days before dr. king made history with his "i have a dream" sp.

we really got worried, and he brought in my memorandum and roy wilkins looked at it and said, hot damn, we're going to go over a quarter of a million. and he said, what she doesn't know, said wilkins, is the number of people who are going to wake up wednesday morning and decide to get in their car and go. >> the government and the kennedy administration was not quite sure what was going to happen. >> the kennedys were almost morbidly afraid of this march. and remember that it was in the backdrop of the violence in the south. who was to say that that violence wouldn't be brought to washington? >> they closed the bars. they put the national guard on standby. they had a draft drawn up declaring marshal law. >> as an employee as the highway department in washington, d.c., my assignment, because i did not want to stay home, was to come in and man a highway department truck to carry out bodies. the 82nd airborne showed up and proceeded to occupy the area between there and the capitol. >> on august 28, 1963, the city shut down. >> by noon the next day, almost 250,000 people would be jammed sh

wilkins and i said roy, this is my speech. and i'm speaking for the young people.ing people fresh from jails. and he sort of dropped it. and randolph and martin luther king, jr. came to me. and we met right on the side of mr. lincoln. the music was already playing. someone had a portable;÷ñ÷ typewriter. and dr. king said to me, john that doesn't sound like you. and mr. randolph said, john we've come this far together let's stay together. i could not say no to randolph or martin luther king, jr.. mr. randolph had been dreaming of a march on washington since the days of roosevelt and the days of truman. so we made the changes. and i deleted all the reference to sherman. and sort of suggested thateñ we would be forced to march through cities, including cities in the north as well as the south. >> so after the speech was over, you went back to the white house and this time the president was happier? >> after dr. king had delivered his i have a dream speech, president kennedy invited us back to the white house. he was stand in the oval office. he was just smiling almos

it would not be, because i recall the time when lena horne, sammy davis jr., and roy wilkins were probablyafrican-americans ever on television and whenever they would come on a program, the tv would go black. and nothing was said. nothing was done until they were off. and then you usually heard dixie being played and the original program being restored. there have been so many changes, and i just -- i think about all of those people that we don't even mention or don't know who paid such a tremendous price. you are doing -- and everyone else involved in this -- you're providing such a wonderful service of knowledge of the past. because we can move forward with that and hopefully that's exactly what we're going to do. >> that's what we're doing this for. and that's what tomorrow is about dealing with today's issues. but we need to know what happened. taylor branch, dr. king's speech is now one of history's high points. and you wrote in your book that president kennedy in reacting to the speech, actually watched the speech. i'm going to read from your book. kennedy was witnessing a complete k

civil rights movement who founded the brotherhood of sleeping carporters in 1925, speakers from roy wilkins, the naacp's executive secretary, greeted the crowd. the youngest speaker at the march was a 23-year-old civil rights organizer from alabama named john lewis. leader of the student nonviolence coordinating committee. by the time of the march, lewis had been arrested 24 times for his activism during nonviolent protest. >> i want to hear a yell and thunder from all those people who are out there under the tree. let's hear you. >> there is a lot of noble talk about brotherhood. and then some americans drop the brother and keep the hood. this rally is not the end. it's the beginning. it's the beginning of a great moral crusade. to allow america do the unfinished work of american democracy. the congress has to act. >> by the forces of our demands, our determination and our numbers, we shall splitter the segregated south into a thousand pieces and put them together in the image of god and democracy. >> we must say wake up, america, wake up, for we cannot stop and we will not and cannot be p

three days before the march, martin luther king appeared on "meet the press" with fellow organizer roy wilkinse naacp at the time. and the moderator asked wilkins about the possibility of riots at the march. listen to this. >> mr. wilkins, there are a great many people as i'm sure you know that believe it would be impossible to bring more than a hundred thousand militant negroeinto washington without rioting. >> i don't think there will be rioting. i don't think people just assembling is cause for apprehension about a riot. city of washington has accommodated much larger crowds and nobody has talked up in advance the possibility of violence. >> i mean, this was the real talking point on the right back then. doesn't it expose why the march was needed in the first place, james? >> it does. and again, it speaks to the history i was talking about in my earlier comment. i'm reminded as we approach the march and all the work he did in making the phone calls and going door to do for, setting up the stage and lineup. what's interesting here, people maybe don't understand this as much is that a lot of

roy wilkins at the naacp, whitney young at the urban league, they turned on martin.yndon johnson disinvites him to the white house. 72% of people that turned against him in the last harris poll, 57% of his own people, black people turned against this. >> i get this but i come back to the same question. what do you do about it? you have the first african-american president in the country. he is faced with a genocidal monster in syria. what do you do? is it nothing. i don't think the sensible answer is turn our backs. >> the answer is never nothing. you had a wonderful conversation at the top of the show and more questions raised. we can't go it alone. there is no u.n. mandate. we want to get in. we don't know how to get out. we want to punish somebody. what's the long-term objective. all the things you talked to your guest about these are questions that have to be asked if martin king were here he would say that nonviolence is the answer and love is the only weapon that can turn an enemy in to a friend and somehow we think love is a joke. love is a real thing and it m

on meet the press, roy wilkins being asked about the likelihood that it would be marchers who would riot's take a listen. >> mr. wilkins, there are a great many people, as i'm sure you know, that believe it would be impossible to bring more than 100,000 militant negroes into washington without incidence and possibly riot. >> i don't think there will be any rioting. i don't think a hundred thousand people, just assembling, is cause for apprehension about a riot. the city of washington has accommodated much larger crowds and nobody has talked up in advance the possibility of violence. >> so as you just pointed out, all of the violence up to this moment had been against demonstrators, against civil rights activists, and yet the question was, are you guys going to come here and riot? >> segregation was government policy. it was a part of the structure of our society at that time. the march on washington, the military had locked down the airport, transit and bus stations. they coraled the five military bases in this area, including the naval base. they put police on 18-hour shifts. and evened

there were just grievances with him and roy wilkins, who was the head of the naacp, for example. stan mentioned bayyup ruston who did such an amazing job of bringing this whole coalition of people together. who talk about all these various issues. and of course, it was a day on which "the washington post," among other newspapers, missed "i have a dream." >> what?! >> covered the speech and other speeches. the lead story from that day was preoccupied with the fact that there had been no violence and there was just a casual mention and actually quoted other parts of the dr. king's speech, but we missed the lead. >> at the time of the march in 1963, some people thought that the movement was actually moving too fast. and that skepticism, we have, actually, a piece of sound that i want to play. and we'll talk about it on the other side. >> i'm sure that many whites both north and south have the feeling that we are pushing things too fast and that we should cool off a while, slow up for a period. i cannot agree with this at all, for i think there can be no gain saying of the fact that

. >> warner: 50 years ago this sunday in advance of the upcoming march on washington roy wilkins, the then chairman of the n.a.a.c.p. and martin luther king, jr., president of the southern christian leadership conference appeared on nbc's "meet the press". one of the questioners was the white house correspondent for nbc news, our own robert macneil. >> mr. wilkins, the march on wednesday is the psychological climax of a movement that has been crescendoing for many months. what do you plan after wednesday? >> after wednesday, of course, will be the follow-up on the crescendo, as you say, that has been developing. it will be immediately addressed to the task of getting legislation through the congress, and then it will proceed, as it must proceed, on all local and state levels, to the elimination step by step, or sweepingly as the case might be, of remaining pockets of discrimination, even while we wait for legislation from the congress. there will be one other aspect, of course, and that has been developing all along. that is to guide and direct and instruct and inspire the negro popul

york times," right around the time of the march of washington, was asking people like king and roy wilkinsthe naacp where are we at, what do we need to do to promote equality, and their argument was, you know, there are different forms of equality. if what you mean by equality is ending race discrimination by law, we could probably accomplish that in a couple years. but if you want to be in a truly equal society where people are, as king said, judged by the content of their character and not the color of their skin, you need to have substantive equality. in a society where african-americans are more likely to be incarcerated, more likely to die early, more likely to live in poor conditions, you don't genuinely have equality of opportunity. they defined equality of opportunity as somebody having an equal chance to realize that person's potential regardless of race from the time of their birth. and we don't have that yet. we don't really have a civil rights movement now that is as energized and focused on trying to accomplish that. so the civil rights movement in the 1960s was an incredibly

and roy wilkins from the naacp to be the guests that sunday on "meet the press."this is kind of awesome. this weekend, this upcoming weekend, either right before or right after the regular edition of "meet the press," depending on where you live, nbc, this weekend, is going to re-air that episode from 1963 in its entirety with dr. martin luther king. that is this sunday. that is going to be amazing. between now and then, whole swaths of msnbc are already relocating to washington, to mark what happened in washington 50 years ago this week and also, of course, to mark what is happening there right now. including melissa harris-perry's show, which will be coming from washington tomorrow morning at 10:00 eastern. joining us now from d.c. is melissa. she's host of the melissa harris-perry show weekend mornings here on msnbc. she's also professor of political science at tulane. melissa, great to see you. thanks for being here. >> yes, and all of your viewers should dvr that incredible "meet the press," because they're going to be wanting to watch mhp show live on sunday

all these black people it was going to -- the city was going to explode. >> jon, one other thing, roy wilkins naacp at the time, i was speaking to taylor branch yesterday, the historian, about the appearance on "meet the press," and wilkins and king had a fair amount of tension between one another about the tactics of protests and mass demonstration. yet, wilkins was really in the position of saying no, this is going to be peaceful and this is the right thing to do. but remember, it was a march on washington for jobs and freedom. and that's why dr. king on "meet the press" was so powerful when he said, you can't have economic equality unless you first have social equality. >> david, let's hear from the man himself on august 25th, 1963. >> i think that we must face the fact that in reality, you cannot have economic and political equality without having some form of social equality. i think this is inevitable and i don't think our society will rise to its full maturity until we come to see that men are made to live together as brothers as that we can have genuine intergroup, interpersonal livin

it would not be, because i recall the time when lena horne, sammy davis jr., and roy wilkins were probably african-americans ever on television and whenever they would come on a program, the tv would go black. and nothing was said. nothing was done until they were off. and then you usually heard dixie being played and the original program being restored. there have been so many changes, and i just -- i think about all of those people that we don't even mention or don't know who paid such a tremendous price. you are doing -- and everyone else involved in this -- you're providing such a wonderful service of knowledge of the past. because we can move forward with that and hopefully that's exactly what we're going to do. >> that's what we're doing this for. and that's what tomorrow is about dealing with today's issues. but we need to know what happened. taylor branch, dr. king's speech is now one of history's high points. and you wrote in your book that president kennedy in reacting to the speech, actually watched the speech. i'm going to read from your book. kennedy was witnessing a complete

roy wilkins was on fire when people tried to slander ruskin during the 1963 march, and it motivated him because he was gay. right after the march on washington, we were pushing through the voting rights act, we got rid of the europe only preference, part of the grand coalition put together, we were all together. we got rid of the europe only preference for immigration. we have always been for sensible immigration reform. the new naacp is nothing but a renaissance of the old naacp and the multiracial and were multiracial from our founding. thatet fueled by the anger the specific oppression of black people in our society generates. and the perspective that it itrs in your soul, that in-- sears in your soul, that in order to have friends, you have to be a friend, and in a democracy, in order to win, you have to have a lot of friends. >> we're almost out of time, but the last question, a couple of housekeeping matters. on september events. 7, the national press club will host the 16th annual be the deadline 5k. the race features tony horton-- creator of p90 x, and erika gonzalez. more infor

as at march is taking place because 50 years after his father a philip randolph and roy wilkins and theeague and the john lewis of sncc and others came together. we are still confronted with some of the same problems and then a new problems. you do not act like protest is something like a hit record that you go with it while it's hot we are not in the business of seeing what the polls say. we are in the business of turning around the poles. [applause] we were as we were 50 years ago. 50 years ago they had no right to vote. 50 years later they are given with a photo id law. it's ending early voting cut ending the fund below the election day with regard to the new policy. 50 years later mass incarceration. 50 years later, we can't get a jobs bill through congress. [applause] people are asking me why are we marching. the issue is why did we wait until now to come and march on washington? [applause] we should be marching more. no one asks anyone in the community why they come to washington and march. no one challenges what they are marching for. we are the ones that taught america how to ma

basically, the black leadership had turned on king, most notably roy wilkins and thurgood marshall. a. philip randolph step forward compared remember king was only 34 at the time. and so it was a. philip randolph who said look, back up off of him. i've got a plan that can mobilize the nation. and he bought for the march on washington that he had had on the shelf for 20 years. not only that, he said, i'm going to give dr. king the platform to articulate his view, his message. and that's what he did. cane, now unfortunately for history's sake, who organized the march on washington has been misappropriated to dr. king. team was only the featured speaker. okay? he was not the organizer. the organizer was a. philip randolph and buyer dressed and. but have the team came -- byron rustin. a. philip randolph had the muscle through the union to be able to underwrite the march. and what can have done, remember when the youth began to go to jail, king was obligated to go to jail with him and he wrote the letter from the birmingham jail, essentially calling on white clergy to step forward. so th

i was on the dais when roy wilkins introduced dr. king.n who was willing to take the risk to shape it. i hope some of our leaders today , that we will not be silent about these things that we walk around. thank you. >> thank you so much, and thank you so much, mr. brown, for sharing those wise words, your wisdom, and your future. the program we will have another musical selection by mr. washington. ♪ >> ♪ let it shine let it shine let it shine if i can help somebody alongass cheer somebody or sonword -- or song somebodyshow they've been traveling wrong not be inving shall vain y dutyan do m back dutyring world message bring my that the master taught not be inving shall vain be iny living shall not vain then my living shall not be in vain can i help somebody as i pass along not my living shall vain not my living shall be in vain my living shall not be in vain can help somebody as i pass along shall notving vain somebodyhelp as i pass along then my living vain not be in let it shine let it shine shine ♪ white,k you so much, too for that befo

king gave the i have a dream speech or roy wilkins that would stand there along with john lewis to helpssues forward. we stopped for a moment because we recognized even as it was the 100th anniversary of the emancipation proclamation, august 20th 1963 was the 100th anniversary of the emancipation proclamation. 50 years later this is 150th anniversary. those are important marks and watersheds and our movement forward. we have an awful lot done. people thought that when we came there that we would never be able to fix the problems that we had even though the constitution have guaranteed these fixes. we went through the reconstruction era in which the constitution is clarified to provide those rights and protections for the three reconstruction amendment. the first guaranteeing equal protection on wall. the fourth amendment says we as a former servitude would be considered full first-class citizens in the country and so what our children and our children's children. they made it very clear and clarified the right to vote. they said even the former servitudes wouldn't allow any state or jur