royal air force. give you credit where credit is due. royal air force. first to you, daft kay. don't know why i'm so annoyed about this coming out about the westward turn. three days later they told us about the westward turn they knew about it. should i be annoyed they kept it close to the vest or can it be for a good reason >> the only reason if they think it was a criminal investigation from the beginning. they didn't think it was as far as i i know. they were search aircraft so it wasn't a defensive move, not like they didn't know what aircraft it was coming into the airspace. if it was an unknown ping they didn't know was associated with this airplane they would have sent out defensive aircraft michael could respond to better than i could but sent out search aircraft which i find very curious. >> curious in what way? >> the fact they didn't send out information and thought it was a criminal investigation. >> why wouldn't they have jamled jejamled -- they have scrambled the jets. let me ask you something about the voice. i don't know why some people are stuck on who said wh

at the far end, a wall of modern stained glass marks the royal air force chapel.he fighter pilots of all nations who died defending britain in 1944. with saints in stained glass, heroes in carved stone, and the remains of england's greatest citizens under the floor stones, westminster abbey is the national church and the religious heart of england. >> welcome to "film school shorts" -- a showcase of the most exciting new talent from across the country. experience the future of film, next on "film school shorts." >> "film school shorts" is made possible by a grant from maurice kanbar, celebrating the vitality and power of the moving image, and by the members of kqed. [ answering machine beeps ] >> man on machine: hey, sweetie, it's daddy. i -- i just wanted to tell you that i love you. i...

i'm johned ejoined again by mi cahill, in the royal air force. how could he survive these condition? >> there's two conditions and they're the two key environmental issues that will be working against this particular stowaway. hypoxia is a starvation of oxygen to the body, and that usually happens at around 10,000 to 12,000 feet. the effect you get from that is feeling of ur euphoria. that's the danger of hypoxia. hypothermia, as you know, the core body temperature is around 37.5 c. the onset of hypothermia comes at 40 below. up at 35,000 feet, you'll be in the region between minus 45 and minus 50. skin freezes almost instantaneo instantaneously. >> it's just above the line of having -- his skin freezing, right, frostbite, so to speak. i want you to listen to this, this airport manager in maui. he says he saw the boy and is skeptic skeptical. >> i imagine 35,000 feet is very cold. also 35,000 feet in the wheel well is not pressurized or temperature controlled so it would be a miracle to survive in the wheel well. he looked pretty good from what i

let's discuss now, michael, aviation analyst, retired royal air force pilot. les, 777 pilot.illespie, international group for historic aircraft recovery. mary schiavo, former transportation department inspector general. let me start with the criticism toward the malaysians. is it warranted, mary? >> well, some is. we don't know what all is going on there. certainly they got off to a pretty rocky start and we're kind of used to -- not kind of. we're very used to the ntsb standards which are also the international civil aviation organization standards which they didn't follow at first. so those standards are there because they've been proven over literally hundreds of investigations, and they work. that's how the world runs investigations. so the the criticism would be they should have stuck to those standards right from the start and would have a smoother ride right now. >> rick gillespie, is that criticism warranted? >> human factors are always a major issue. and in an aviation accident, in a disappearance like this one, paramount. looking into the backgrounds of the pilots a

and not only a terrific resource on this, and aviator, former royal air force lieutenant colonel, michael kay. and ocean explorer and expedition leader, christine dennison. and your insights become even more critical, as now the search goes under water. richard, start with you. four weeks ago, i did not think we would be sitting here today, effectively talking about what seems like the very same thing. but have we made more progress than what we knew four weeks ago today? >> yes. since we've made an enormous amount of progress in the sense that four weeks ago, on the night when it happened, if you had said to me, richard, within days the search area will be 2,000 miles in exactly the opposite direction. and you will have absolutely no trace of the plane, other than by some hokey pokey science to deal with satellite technology that's never been done before. we would have said you are barking mad. >>> and you would have said that's never happened before. and there is no reason to think it's happened now. and now we know it has. >> i would have laid money back then that this plane eventually

joining me on the phone is leon fox from the royal new zealand air force.ut the search operation? how it's going. we know it has been moved. what can you tell us? >> it has moved slightly north based on updated information. we are continuing to drop buoys in the area to make sure the modeling is correct. apart from that you have it continuing. >> squadron leader fox, again, the search area has been moved a little bit. how confident are you, you know, that you are in the right area? does it matter? you are going to continue to search, i would imagine, if you feel you are in the right area or not. it's your job to surgery that area. >> that's correct. it's our job to search it. we are confident the areas we are getting will eventually leading to finding something. the area is absolutely massive. we have to systemically break it down and search it day by day to cover it thoroughly and properly. if we did it quickly there is a chance we would misparts. it will take time to get there and narrow it down. >> new zealand director peter jackson said a jet is assisti

joining me now air commodore kevin mcelvoy of the royal new zealand air force, so he's deeply involved in this search. air commodore, good to see you. in a matter of hours your planes will be back up in the air, yes? how many, and what's the mission? >> so, it's 4:00 in perth at the moment. the first aircraft takes off at 6:00 and there will be a total of eight search aircraft and another three communications aircraft until about 12:00. >> and then what is the difference between the missions of the search versus the communication aircraft? >> so, the search aircraft will be typically something like the c-130 hercules aircraft that will be specifically either designed or fitted out for search and rescue, able to go the long distances and stay out there for a long period of time, so it's an endurance thing as well as specially fitted with specific seats. whereas the communications aircraft such as the australian witch tail aircraft will be up there listening and making sure that the aircraft in the vicinity are all deconflicted. so, largely operating as a traffic advisory for the aircraf

joined by lieutenant michael colonel kay, r.a.f., royal air force, for those that don't know that. vid soucie, it occurred to me when you brought it up that there was a whole other air space that this flight was headed into. to your knowledge, didn't make it into that air space. >> right. >> what would happen for air traffic control and what kind of transcript might be out there if there is one. >> there is communication whenever there is a handoff, so going from kuala lumpur to ho chi minh. >> yeah, that air space. and then you're going into ho chi minh air space. what happens -- >> vietnamese air space. >> correct. >> thats would the path. >> yes. so what happens is, you're talking with the pilot. if i'm the controlling, talking with the pilot, i'm saying i want you to go -- i see you're going to head that way. i'm going to hand you off. here is 120.9. tune to 120.9. the pilot does that. underneath that, what's happened is, this controller talks to the controller at ho chi minh and says there is an airplane coming into your air space. >> picks up the phone. land line call. >> or s

and michael kay, a retired royal air force pilot broke down the key elements a couple of hours ago. >> a calm, measured and supremely effective response by air chief marshall houston. he hit a couple of critical points in looking towards the family and loved ones. number one, he confirmed the ping from chinese news agency wasn't verified .i think that's very important, just to reduce everyone's expectations. he then said that he was actually talking to the rcy in china, the rescue coordination center in china. i think that's important. we've been talking about the importance of establishing that communication with china, bringing in that information. he then said, and i think this was aimed towards the families, all credible leads will be followed up. and again, that reassures the families that they're not going to gloss over this, so that's great. and then finally, the importance of this really came through when he said he was going to redeploy. we spoke about it early on this evening about redeploying thoses a spepts that places a real importance of just how significance this ping i

australian agency coordinating search operations, cnn aviation analyst michael kay, a retired royal air force pilot, former adviser to the uk defense ministry was listen to go this news conference that happened a few hours ago and he broke down some of the key points of what houston had to say. >> i think this was a calm, measured, and supremely effective response by air chief marshall houston. what he did in this press conference, he hit a number of critical points and i'm looking towards the family and loved ones at this point. number one, he confirmed that the ping from chinese news agency wasn't verified. i think that's very important just to reduce everyone's expectations. he then said that he was actually talking to the rcc in china, the rescue coordination center in china. i think that's important because we've been talking about the importance of establishing that communication with china, bringing in that information. he then said -- and i think this was aimed towards the families, all credible leads will be followed up. that reassures the families they're not going to gloss over thi

first of all, they're going to be flying australian royal air force planes across the area, they can get there quickly and try and monitor any acoustic activity. to get the ships it takes much longer. it's going to be at least 14 hours from when that press conference was held to when the "hms echo" will get there and longer for the "ocean shield." >> it's the bottom of the hour and i have to reset for our viewers. >> in the southern indian ocean now, more pings, more pulses and possibly more clues from deep beneath the surface as to the location of the malaysia flight 370. a chinese ship reported hearing something this weekend. what is that something? nobody knows yet. but the search commanders intend to find out. i want you to listen to angus houston. this convinced him to take this seriously. >> this morning we were contacted by chinese authorities and advised that "haixun 01" had late yesterday redetected the signals to 90 seconds within just 2 kilometers of the original detection. >> this is what's heading to the place where the chinese ship heard those pings, the "ocean shield"

panel david gallow who is the hole institute and a sound expert is here and michael kay, former royal air forcean start with you. why such a mystery under the ocean? is it the conditions, the money, the technology? >> sure. it requires technology. it's vast. it's covering 70% of the earth surface and its deep average depth about two and a half miles. the pressure there is incredible. you can crush the "titanic" like a paper cup in your hand and it requires specialized technology to get down there and begin to explore. >> michael, one question that comes to mind here is why aren't they showing -- you have this one blue-fin 21 but others exist in the world and it moves at a walking pace and you're mowing the lawn in effect three miles down. why isn't there half a dozen searching now to narrow the search area more quickly? >> that is a really good question. i think david is probably a better person to answer that. >> well, i think it's the tactics that have been chosen. they have the pinger locations and we only need one vehicle to go right to the spot. captain matthews is running it said that is

michael kay is a retired lieutenant colonel in the royal air force, former adviser to the uk minister of defense. david suze is a former air accident investigator. from boston, tom acheler is the vice president of teledine marine systems, happens to be the maker of pingers and also pinger detectors. tom, that fifth ping has now been ruled out as a black box ping. i'm not sure exactly how they do it, but does this sound to you that the sonobuoys maybe aren't what we thought they might be be in this search? >> i don't think that's true at all. they're different than, let's say the way the total towed pinger works. they're incredibly sensitive. and so they've been tuned differently. in this particular case, they've looked at them, they've tried to tune them so they can detect the frequency of what the pinger should emit. the first thing. the second thing is they operate deep enough. almost 300 meters, maybe deeper, and are able to provide that good link to a better acoustic channel away from the noise of the surface. the only problem with them is they really are a narrow area search tool

michael kay, you were a pilot in the british royal air force.you keep motivated here when you're not finding any success? as you were saying and listening to this story, you said these guys and ladies, they take this personally. >> yeah. it's a great question. i think it's something that we need to be cognizant of in day 37 of this search. i've been involved in a couple of search operation on a much, much smaller scale, but you become emotionally attached and you take it personally responsible. you want to be that crew that finds something. i think on day 37 there are all sorts of human factors that come into this which ultimately will affect not only operational effectiveness, as mary was saying in terms of the analysis on operations in the past, but also safety. safety is absolutely paramount in this. you've got loss of aircraft and ships floating into the area. people are going to start getting tired because of the long nature of the flights on obviously the long nature of the search. i think the last thing that angus houston needs at the mom

aviation analyst, former pilot with british royal air force, aviation analyst mary schiavo, former inspectoreneral, and former navy submarine officer david jordan, he is co-founder and president of the deep ocean exploration company nautikos. >> can you imagine this search comes up empty and years later we find out what happened? >> we can. if we look back to air force 447, it took two years to find the black boxes. we're in day 45 as you pointed out. i think our expectations should be set for the long haul. if we look at the blue finer it's on its eighth mission. this is a critical phase, but i think there have been a number of critical phases given the lack of evidence we've had. there's been updates that pulled us into the location. and then there's be the discovery of the pings and then the fight against the time line of the batteries going dead. i think that was a critical part of the investigation as well. so yes, this is another critical part of the investigation. and there will be other critical parts of the investigation going forward. but i think the language that the deputy used i

lieutenant colonel michael kay, retired military pilot with the british royal air force, jim tilmon, retired american airlines pilot. les abend, aviation analyst and triple seven pilot and aviation attorney arthur rosenberg and geoffrey thomas editor in chief of airlineratings.com. let's go to geoffrey first. what did you make of the interview? did the prime minister have a good explanation of how they acted in the immediate after math of the disappearance? >> first of all, great interview that richard was able to get. the malaysian prime minister has given us more clarity but it's not crystal clear. some of the answers were still left question marks. as far as the way they reacted afterwards he did concede they didn't handle it as well as they could but at the same time he does say, which is true, this disappearance is unprecedented and many, many countries would have been challenged by it. certainly we have more clarity from them about what is going to happen in the next week or so. >> one of the most important pieces of the interview, i thought, is the prime minister saying that m

this is a p-3 from the new zealand royal air force that we have flown.e 30 flights. they are searching hundreds of miles from where the bluefin is diving. they have enough fuel for about an hour and and a half of searching and then it's a five-hour flight home. here's what the captain has said about the frustration. there must be a level of frustration at staring at the water for so long and hoping to see something and not coming up with it. >> not so much frustration as in i guess it's our mission to find it and we want to be the crew that does find it but it takes time. >> reporter: now, this prean las spotted a few things out there on the south indian ocean. they have been able to direct ships to them. so far they have not found anything substantial. the one thing that they did find that they thought they had a hit on turned out to be a large, red basket or bread holder. they thought they had something there. at the end of the day, it wasn't. it took hours to get the ship and there have been smaller boats to get to that piece in order to check it out.

look, we were up at pearce royal air force base here just north of perth, and it was amazing to see all of the crews, some 650 air personnel from seven different countries. most interesting was to see the chinese crews and the american crews hanging out, exchanging pleasantries about their kids and patches. clearly, a sense of frustration that this has come to an end and they have not found anything related to mh-370, but also a sense that they have tried their damnedest to get this thing, and it is extremely hard work for these crews to be out there for so long and looking at that ocean. with regard to the search, the bluefin may be out today, but it will continue working. really, they're going to continue in three different ways. the bluefin is going to continue to work, the "ocean shield" that it's launching off of, can stay out until may 15th or so before it has to return to port for fuel. then the authorities will go back to all of their partners and recrunch the numbers, figure out what other areas may be promising to search in. we already know they'll move to the pinger one locat

most of the air crews will leave the royal australian air force base pearce, near perth, over the next few days. on monday, australia's prime minister said most of the debris is probably waterlogged and has likely sunk. the senate is expected to reject president obama's increase in the federal minimum wage today. the bill would gradually boost the now seven-dollars- and-25-cent minimum to ten- dollars-and -ten-cents over 30 months. but republicans are opposed to the bill. they say lawmakers should focus on bills that would create jobs. first lady michelle obama will announce pledges of more than $150 million from foundations and corporations to help veterans and their families get the services they need. the first lady and jill biden, the vice president's wife, are scheduled to appear at the red cross today with a number of charities to launch the philanthropy-joining forces impact pledge. more than 30 organizations are committing to provide services over the next five years. wal-mart will soon start offering auto insurance. the nation's largest retailer says it is partnering with auto

miles o'brien, mike's kaye, retired british royal air force pilot and aviation and 777 captain les aubin and david gallo and i want to start with this malaysia response first. start with you, miles. how do we know what to believe coming out of the malaysian government? why can't they get on the same page here? >> i have no idea why they can't get on the same page but can tell you i'm skeptical of everything they say. cleared the back side of are the cockpit door in a eweek's time and now implicated everybody as a suspect kind of randomly is a perfect example of a pattern. so the question is, are they really investigating the patterns from the cabin crew or not? just saying so because there was pressure and they indicated they cleared them in a way that was so clear that it didn't pass the smell test? i think that, you know, in is is not surprising. this has been a consistent pattern for an investigation that's been confused and not well coordinated. and face it, an unprecedented investigation in general and the best and brightest in this business would have a hard time dealing with. >> s

joining us by phone, andy scott of the royal new zealand air force.thanks for joining us. first of all, any updates on what's going on as far as the search for debris on the surface or what's going on underwater, as far as those signals from the two black boxes are concerned? >> so, today's search is concentrating on an area approximately 250 miles separated from each other. we have the underwater search, still going on in the area and the vicinity of the pings det t detected by ocean shield and the airborne assets, 250 miles further to the west of that area for any possible drift and debris field. of course, every day the currents will go and move any potential debris as well. that of course, needs to be constantly adjusted. >> have you found any debris at all yet? >> the fly from the new zealand aircraft detected ten targets of interest. all photographed. following post-mission analysis, there was nothing to report that would link it to mh 370 regrettably. >> how surprised are you they detected pings, we hope coming from the two black boxes, but des

cnn's erin mclaughlin from australia and in new york i'm joined by former royal air force pilot michael kay and cnn meteorologist chad myers. live in perth, erin, tell me about this object of interest. what more do we know about it? >> hi, ashleigh. we're hearing from the head of australian transportation and safety bureau that it was found about 160 miles to the south of here, to the south of perth. he said that the atsb is currently analyzing photographs of the object. he described it as a metal sheet with rivets. we're also hearing from an australian defense force source saying it appears as though it's coated in fiberglass. not exactly sure what that means exactly. martin dolan, the head of the atsb, also saying, urging caution, saying that the more they analyze these photographs, the less excited they're getting about this find. we understand from officials that it's currently en route to perth for further analysis. ashleigh. >> erin, is it possible there's been other material that's been found and just not publicized, has anyone talked about that? >> well, this is the first report

colonel michael kay is a cnn aviation analyst, former royal air force pilot and adviser to the uk government. tom, i want to begin with you. we are seven weeks in. is this perhaps all coming back to the pings? >> ashleigh, i think it has to right now. that's the best evidence that there is something in the water in that general area. the pings are what you would expect to hear in a search area. but the issue is have they really drawn the right circle, expanding the search area is probably the only solution they have right now. but they probably also should start looking at analyzing the data more carefully, getting other eyes on that data to see if they've interpreted the pings and the locations correctly. >> certainly, the reassessment of the data changed things dramatically terms of the search field. but does not finding debris confirm that the pings weren't real? >> yes, i don't think that not finding debris really means a lot. there's all kinds of scenarios where you can see the air frame on the water and then sink and not end up with a debris field. it's highly unusual, but in all this,

i want to bring in cnn aviation analyst and retired british royal air force michael michael kay and les abend and there at the end, famed ocean pioneer jacques cousteau and also fame noud in his own right. cnn analyst and ocean expert, david gallo. welcome to the panel. thank you for coming in. i just had a conversation, actually, with -- what's his name? the other cousteau. >> which one? >> jacques, fabian. >> sebob. >> a small group. >> i wanted him to come in and talk about it and he's working on a show and he will come in i time. so, listen, i want to start with that part of the world is considered extremely, extremely -- it's considered extreme, right? i should just say an extreme part of the world. how long can they keep looking? forever? this is very costly. you have a lot of people out there tiring themselves out. >> that's just it. you're talking about trying to find an object like the you were looking through the front door keyhole to see what's going on up in the attic. that's how clueless we are about this area. we have limited access to technology, although the technology t

i'm joined now by cnn's aviation analyst and retired lieutenant colonel in the royal air force michael kay. all right, colonel kay, so perhaps he got lucky. but first and foremost, is there any way for a pilot to know that someone or something is in a wheel well? >> i think that's a great question, ashleigh. there are designated airfields around the world that various airlines have put a designation on for stowaway risk. what that means is when the aircraft lands, in ghana, west africa, what the engineers will do is drop those doors. you saw from that previous piece where gary was climbing into the 767. just below gary there, are two large doors. the normal mechanism, the way the wheels deploy, the wheels will come down and those two big doors you can see just in the bottom of the picture, they come up to get rid of the drag as the aircraft is on final approach. in these areas of specific designations of stowaway risks, the engineers at the airfield will drop those doors so when the pilot or the first officer does their walk around, they can actually look up and see the enormity of the

tantalizing details from kuala lumpur, malaysia, and i'm also joined by cnn aviation analyst, former royal air force pilot, colonel michael kay. will, first to you, more about this discovery, it's somewhat perplexing to say the least, especially where it was. who made the discovery, how they made the discovery, how serious is this? >> certainly an having development, although considering all the false leads we've had in this investigation, the mystery going on nearly eight weeks now. this australian private company, s georesonan georesonance, they were looking for aluminum first because a boeing 777 is about 70% aluminum. then they started looking for other metals you'd find in a 77 7, other traces of materials. that's how they zeroed into this area, 3,100 miles north of the current search zone. i want you to hear what the company spokesman says as he describes this process. >> the southern area doesn't seem logical to us at all. the pings coming from the satellite is basically a 50/50 chance that it was heading on the northern corridor or the southern corridor. as it turned out, we found out afterw

that's why today royal australian air force assets will deploys to examine the signals in the vicinityf where the chinese ship detected the sound. >> egypt's prime minister met in a prove since after fighting between families in aswan city. >> al jazeera is demanding the release of its journalist who have been imprisoned in egypt for 99 days. the trial of peter greste, mohamed fadel fahmy, and mohammed badr have been adjourned until 10th april. they are falsely accused of providing a platform for the outlaweded muslim brotherhood. a fourth abdullah al-shami has been imprisonmented without trial since august. after 76 days of a hunger strike, his health is deteriorating. >> now the gruelling race has start in the moroccan sahara desert, where runners take on the dunes, sand. terrain varies from salt pans and rocky plateaus to sand dunes. there are six stages. the fourth is the toughest, 80km, and must be completed in 48 hours. >> an italian competitor was lost, discovered nine days later, 300km off course. al jazeera's andy richardson spoke to two competitors before starting the race, a

that's why today royal australian air force assets will deploy to assist in further examining the acoustic signals in the vicinity of where the chinese ship has detected the sounds. >> al jazeera is demanding the release of its journalists who have been imprisoned for 91 days, the trial of mohamed fadel fahmy, mohammed badr, and peter greste's trial has been adjourned until april 10th. a fourth journalist abdullah al-shami has been detained without trial until august. his health is deteriorating. >> al jazeera detects all the charges against the journalists. >> the gruelling mass is about to start in morocco's sahara desert. where runners take on the mountains. the route is so top secret that competitors only find out on the eve of the event. temperatures reach up to 50 degrees celsius. the terrain is sand flats to sand dunes. the fourth statement is the toughest, 80km that must be completed in 34 hours. runners compete at their own peril. an italian competitor got lost in a sandstorm, discovered nine days later, 300km off course. he lost 20% of his body weight. al jazeera's andry richards

lieutenant colonel michael kaye, retired military pilot with the british royal air force. jim tillman, retired american airlines pilot, aviation attorney arthur rosenburg, and of course jeffrey thomas, back with us from perth. david, you say in jean's piece that additional countries coming forward to help could complicate efforts. what's the alternative, though? >> well, the idea is that as time -- there's a time in investigation when you stop doing and start thinking. that's important, really important. and most of the my investigations, i spent at least 80% of our time planning and figuring it out and analyzing data. and only about 20% do you actually go out and do. now, those investigations didn't involve this type of search, obviously. but with this type of search, it's so important that it's a coordinated effort. there's a strategy, a plan for it to go forward. throwing more people at the problem won't fix it. i think it will help financially, it will help a lot. people are going to pitch in on the project, bring in, per tease. you need to select the people -- bring i

here to help us, retired royal air force pilot. russ, 777 pilot. and cnn aviation analyst, aviation correspondent, i should say, richard quest. are you happy now that i said 777? >> very happy. >> earlier he said, stop saying 777, say triple 7. first question from mark. is it possible what the chinese heard could be a submarine? michael, go. >> i don't think it could be a submarine. i think there's lots of background choice. i think it could be something natural. it doesn't have a hitter. the hydroplane doesn't have a filter on it. it's incredibly difficult to know what it is. submarine, probably not. >> okay. david, how does ocean currents, tides and weather impact listening for the pings? >> hi, don. well, you know, the oceans can play a lot of games with sound especially when we're talking about these water depths. we're looking at anywhere from 1,000 which is not so bad down to 6,000 meters. so they could have -- almost certainly has an effect. and the question is how much of an effect would it have in this area? >> okay. what does that -- what

danger mary schavio, lieutenant colonel michael kay, a retired military pilot with the british royal air force. jim tilmon, david soucie author of why why planes crash. arthur rosenberg and jeffrey thomas editor and chief of airline ratings.com. this is the original group we assembled eight weeks ago and you are back here with us. thank you for joining us. we will start with you, jim. some families have been question wlng searchers are looking in the right place. you share their skepticism, don't you? tell me why you think they may need to go back to the drawing board, jim. >> i never got assurance there was a strong scientific reason for taking the approach we are taking. i don't know what was the thinking involved when the decision was let's go south and ignore anything to the north. i don't think the idea of ignoring any part of a search like this because we don't know very much. it's one of these things that came up last week when someone made the statement we don't know anything. we suppose a lot. we have a lot of assumptions. we need to know something. i'm with the family on that. tell m

welcome cnn aviation expert, richard quest, and also michael kay, retired lieutenant colonel in the royal air forceand one-time adviser to the u.k. minute industry of defense. okay. martin, i want to come to you first with this new revelation that there is a circulating flier, so to speak, that's going around malaysian airlines with the information and the new protocols on tightening the cockpit rules for who can be in and when one pilot wants to leave, what must happen and who must come in and take his place. could you two walk me through technically how this happens? because i know those locks aren't like any normal locks on any doors. >> right. i mean, you know, we always are sensitive when we start talking about security issues pertaining to the cockpit that we want to be able to demonstrate to people that there are things that are being done. we don't want to get too specific so people would come up with counter measures. on the 777, there is specifically right here a flight deck door lock, which is an electric switch -- try not to block with my hand. but you can turn it and now it's listed as

the war, he volunteered for an ambulance unit for the red cross, then trained pilots for the royal air forced a comfortable living. for 50 years, he told hardly anyone what he had done. a question which i know intrigues everyone who hears your story is why did you keep it secret for so long? >> winton: i didn't really keep it secret; i just didn't talk about it. >> simon: all this time, you're in england, and then you go back to czechoslovakia. then you go to israel. you still had no idea how your departure from czechoslovakia had been organized? >> meisl: absolutely no idea. >> simon: and you learned that by seeing it on television? >> meisl: that's right. >> simon: in 1988, the bbc learned about winton's story and invited him to be part of a program. he had no idea that the people sitting around him were people he had saved. >> can i ask, is there anyone in our audience tonight who owes their life to nicholas winton? if so, could you stand up please? mr. winton, would you like to turn around? on behalf of all of them, thank you very much indeed. ( applause ) >> winton: i suppose it was the

with me now to talk about this is michael kay, retired royal air force pilot, and christine dennison, whose company specializes in ocean exploration. so the reality colonel kay, is that this search can't go on forever. and we're starting to hear that articulated by some of the officials in australia. some say we're going to search until hell freezes over and the others say we need to be prepared for us never finding the plane. as a searcher, how are you supposed to read that? >> i think it's right to be cautious. and i think the prime minister has as we saw last night started to take a slightly more cautious approach when he's delivering his information, which is a good thing. one thing i will say is it would be virtually impossible to replace the military assets that we currently have used on the search. we talk about the p-8 poseidon, that's a $280 million airplane. you're not going to be able to pull in those -- >> i think there's two of them now on site. there was one and then another one was coming from the pacific at some point as well and joining in the search. which is great,

that's why today, royal australian air force resources will deploy to assist in further examining the acoustic signals in the vicinity of where the chinese ship has detected the sounds. >> experts say if the sounds can be verified it could reduce the search area from 84,000 square miles down to four square miles. >>> millions of people went to the polls today in afghanistan despite threats from the taliban to disrupt the country's presidential election. election officials say 7 million people voted today. that's a 45% voter turnout. voters waited in long lines today. some polling stations ran out of ballots. afghan military forces say there were 146 attacks at voting locations. last election they responded to 600 attacks. this marks the first election they secured on their own with u.s. soldiers on standby. >> the people are committed to go to the polling stations for many reasons. number one, they want to say no to the taliban. >> eight candidates are competing to replace hamid karzai. the results are expected to take six weeks to come in due to the country's rugged terrain. >>> up n

many, many hundreds of air personnel from seven different countries that got together at pearce royal air forcenorth of perth here to take a group photo, and it's a very impressive group photo, among the many planes they used during this search over the many months. personnel we spoke to, american speaking to chinese counterparts, very pleased to take part in this, frustrated, though, that they did not come up with anything. as for the search for the plane itself, it will continue and intensify under water. the bluefin will continue to dive, even though it's already searched 100% of the most likely area where they thought the airliner was. it will continue to search north of that. they will also target an area that is about ten kilometers or six miles north of that area, where the first ping was picked up. and then they will also prepare for a much longer search that could involve a lot of different types of devices, probably towed-type devices, side sonar devices that they can get giant scans, very fine scans of the ocean, and that would be towed by ships that would take, you know, this is an

that if something is on the surface, our airline will find it. >> kevin mcevoy from the royal new zealand air forceuck to you and all of the men and women that are part of this massive, massive search. thank you. >>> coming up, investigators finally know who spoke last in the cockpit and the voices not who they first assumed it was. sources say the airliner made a dramatic descent and for a long time effectively disappeared from radar. we'll tackle that mysterious development with our experts. ♪ [ male announcer ] when fixed income experts... ♪ ...work with equity experts... ♪ ...who work with regional experts... ♪ ...who work with portfolio management experts, that's when expertise happens. mfs. because there is no expertise without collaboration. >>> we're getting stunning new clues in the disappearance of flight 370. joining us now is aviation correspondent rene marsh and justice reporter evan perez and law enforcement analyst former fbi assistant director tom fuentes. rene, let's start with the new information that we're getting on the last person to speak the final words heard from the cockpit

this stage, we're continuing the air search. >> air commodore kevin mcavoy. royal new zealand air force. thanks, as usual, for all your help. >>> still ahead, the challenges of scouring the bottom of the sea. what will it take to find the missing plane with the bluefin-2 1? >>> plus, did searchers give up too soon on listening for pings from those two black boxes? what if the batteries aren't actually dead? much more on this story coming up. plus the day ee's other news. [ male announcer ] this is the cat that drank the milk... [ meows ] ...and let in the dog that woke the man who drove to the control room [ woman ] driverless mode engaged. find parking space. [ woman ] parking space found. [ male announcer ] ...that secured the data that directed the turbines that powered the farm that made the milk that went to the store that reminded the man to buy the milk that was poured by the girl who loved the cat. [ meows ] the internet of everything is changing everything. cisco. tomorrow starts here. that's why i got a new windows 2 in 1. it has exactly what i need for half of what i thought

we also know against overwhelming odds the royal air force did not exactly prevailed against the lufafa that they were able to battle the lufafa to stalemate in the battle of britain which ended up ending in october of 1940. the leadership made the difference. winston churchill was one of the most dramatic figures in 20th century history said this you may recall about the battle of britain and specifically the raf fighters who went up day after day tracy said never before in the annals of valor has so much been owed by so many to so few. when i started studying this battle more closely when i read a biography of churchill a discovered something that for some reason i didn't know before and that was that the raf at that time only had 2000 pilots. it was only 2000 pilots that went up every day against the full mind of the german lufafa. when i found out the number gave me a lot of encouragement. i believe that journalism is the air war of our time so while it is tempting to become discouraged in the face of some of the statistics i might've shared with you there's a lot of them and so few

australian authorities also confirmed on friday that the signal detected thursday by huge royal australian air forceorion aircraft was not from the black boxes of the missing plane. earlier we spoke to our course on an adhesive which are in perth that he said so far there's still no major breakthrough in the search operation. he also talked about some of the main obstacles facing search teams the fact that the prime minister of a throw ask em on and said this optimistic mood here to there house. they're quite confident that this signals come from the black box is actually a very positive sign from the series that's been going on. up to five weeks now and this is the closest have ever been. those four things that they've effective from the ocean shield. this has been their best league so far they have confirmed that it has the same frequency boxes the difficulties that they have is that this ocean scene of the deep oceans are are very noisy with a lot of fun animal noises and a lot of a man made. oceanography of krugman's being put in there and that's what they thought they heard another thing on thu

. >> i'm joined on the phone by kevin mcevoy from the royal new zealand air force. good to talk to you again, commander. searchers have been desperately trying to analyze that ping, picked up by a sonar buoy all night and day. any idea when we're going to get the results and know what they have? >> no. the acoustic event that happened, you say the ping was picked up after a royal australian air force orion dropped some sonar buoys and they picked up that. and that data will be analyzed overnight. so we're anticipating with the search later on today, potentially, there will be some feedback and some refeignment of the area for the search. and more importantly, for the recovery. >> your planes obviously going airborne at this hour, going out again. where are you searching right now? >> so we're already airborne. we're over the first off the group today. we're searching in the area which is removed from the subsurface search. the area where the pings are going on that the ships are looking in will be different from the area that the majority of aircraft are looking for

we're awaiting a news conference from royal australian air force base pierce with the man in charge of the hunt for flight 370. we're expecting that to start at any moment now and we're going to bring it to you as it happens. meanwhile, searchers are working feverishly to answer the questions that the world is asking. have we finally found a trace of flight 370? a tow pinger locator on the australian ship "ocean shield" picked up signals over the weekend that are being called the most promising lead so far. and ever since, they have been searching and re-searching the area, trying to pick up those pings again. but officials warn, the process could take days. so let's get right to cnn's matthew chance. he is in perth. also, richard quest is here with me in new york. good evening to you. and good evening to you, matthew chance. matthew, we're expecting a news briefing from the joint agency coordinate, center chief, angus houston, along with the minister for defense, senator david johnson. what are we expecting to hear from this news conference? do you have any word for us? >> reporter: n

we also know against overwhelming odds the royal air force did not exactly prevailed against the lufafa that they were able to battle the lufafa to stalemate in the battle of britain which ended up ending in october of 1940. the leadership made the difference. winston churchill was one of the most dramatic figures in 20th century history said this you may recall about the battle of britain and specifically the raf fighters who went up day after day tracy said never before in the annals of valor has so much been owed by so many to so few. when i started studying this battle more closely when i read a biography of churchill a discovered something that for some reason i didn't know before and that was that the raf at that time only had 2000 pilots. it was only 2000 pilots that went up every day against the full mind of the german lufafa. when i found out the number gave me a lot of encouragement. i believe that journalism is the air war of our time so while it is tempting to become discouraged in the face of some of the statistics i might've shared with you there's a lot of them and so few

i want to bring in eric mcevoy of the joint forces headquarters with the royal new zealand air force, one of the chiefs in charge of the air search. good to talk to you again, commander. air search i know just getting under way. obviously, you know, we're told we're in the final days and hours of a visual search whether by plane or by plane. are you ready to make the call to call it off? >> no, that won't be our call. it will be a political call between australia and the malaysian authorities. what i can tell you today is there is another eight or nine missions planned. air crews will be going out again today for that visual search. and the crews will be focused on making sure that they make the most of today, as they have -- this is day 40 for the air search. so we'll be continuing their effort today. >> there is also that sample from the oil slick on its way to a lab in australia. i know it could be a little bit of time, maybe a day or so before we know, they're tasked whether it's from flight 370. how optimistic are you that this slick is from the plane, given you've had your plane

yoiping me to discuss with the airman and colonel in the royal air force. usually they start with the worst possible scenario and work backwards. they have to rule out that it's not criminal before they find malfunction. is that ak raiccurate? >> police investigate criminal activities. notice he said this is a criminal investigation. he didn't say the whole thing is a criminal investigation. he is saying that from the police's point of view, they are looking at it from a criminal point of view. the investigation itself, that is still concern with what happened, where is the plane and what happened. >> adding a lot more layers on some levels of confusion again. everybody makes the point that they entered a new programming code and it could have been that the pilot was trying to save the plane and bring it back to land. not criminal, but absent of evidence, it's suspicious. >> here it's that we need to keep looking at all the facts and keeping an open mind. we don't need to jump to the end where it could be sabotage and hijack. we can't take those off the tab