[ light laughter ] >> seth: "where in the world is rudy giuliani?" ou tell rudy giuliani to meet you at the best western. where is he going to turn up at a screening of "butch cassidy at the sundance kid. correct. [ light laughter ] he would think that is the best western. [ laughter and applause also that piece of paper that says "where is rudy?" looks like something a limo driver would hold up at the airport [ laughter ] rudy is of course a figure in all of trump's various schemes and spent a lot of money helping him. he flew around the country on his own dime and bought hair dye by the barrel just to try to sway state lawmakers to overturn the election results for trump and now, not only has he been indicted for that, he's also out of cash. things are reportedly so bad, rudy reportedly pleaded with trump to pay him, and you'll never guess how that turned out. >> some exclusive new reporting on the hundreds of thousands of dollars in legal fees that rudy giuliani is now staring down and the desperate attempts that he has made to get former president

this is far from the first time rudy giuliani has been accused of this kind of behavior. earlier this summer giuliani was sued by a former employee who accused him of sexual assault and harassment, all of which giuliani denies. but in her lawsuit this former employee alleges giuliani drank all day and night during the post election period, and she specifically cites two moments in particular -- giuliani's press conference at four seasons total landscaping, the one where he falsely claimed dead people voted in pennsylvania, and the press conference where giuliani's hair spray appeared to melt down the side of his face as he falsely claimed that venezuela was tampering with our voting machines. the former employee said it was her job to keepgiuliani from looking foolish while he was drunk. he denies all those allegations and denied the allegations in "the new york times" today as well. >> there's a story in "the new york times" that you have a possible alcohol problem. >> i will sue them for that. i will comment if i have an alcohol problem i should be in the guinness book o

and it -- >> -- >> it is my press conference. >> rudy giuliani's personal tragedy is one thing, as arenials. but whether he was routinely drunk in the postelection period could really matter, legally speaking, for both giuliani and donald trump. a person familiar with the matter tells the new york times that special counsel jack smith is now looking into giuliani's alleged drinking habits. last month, three sources told rolling stone the same thing. why? trump is widely expected to use an advice of counsel defense in his federal trial, essentially claiming that he just took his lawyers professional advice about what to do in the 2020 post election period. but that could all be in serious jeopardy if trump knew his lawyer was drunk while advising him. and trump, who lost his brother to an alcohol related heart attack, is not just simply a well-kno teetotaller. he seems to take note of what happens when people around him drink. >> i never had a drink. i never had a glass of alcohol. in all fairness, i have watched people, and i study people. and i had a great, in particular, a great tuto

rudy giuliani's drinking habits are now part of that investigation. something we should note that giuliani denied today. what does that have to do with ? th that's next. >>> tonight rudy giuliani is down yet another attorney, adding to his mt. everiest of legal and financial issues. the attorney representing him in georgia who you have seen on this program several times, defending giuliani is now the second attorney in just the last week to exit team rudy. this comes at a time, not really the best for giuliani as he is facing criminal charges and owes millions of dollars in legal fees to other lawyers who have previously represented him. what has been his focus today? not any of that. instead, he is pushing back on a report in the "new york times" that details giuliani's alleged alcohol issues and why jack smith is now said to be asking questions about it. >> i have an alcohol problem, i should be in the guinness book of world records. it is a typical "new york times" malicious lie. i do not have an alcohol problem. i have never had an alcohol problem.

a letter sent from rudy giuliani's right-hand man. giuliani and him searched high and low to find anybody who would endorse the contortions about biden. their family crusade culminated in the infamous phone call that then president trump made to ukrainian president zelinski in which trump threatened to withhold hundreds of billions of dollars in economic strategic and military security assistance to ukraine unless so linsky embraced their ridiculous application and falsely advertised to the world ukraine was invested in joe biden. this shakedown became the basis for the first house impeachment of president trump. giuliani's big lie has been thoroughly debunked by multiple sources. as congressman buck, a former chief of the criminal division of the u.s. attorneys office in colorado and a member of the house freedom caucus said and i quote -- there is in fact no evidence that show can was engaged in investigation of burisma or did joe biden's role in inspiring in any way connected to burisma. he continued, what is missing despite years o

he's also the consulting producer for the cnn original series rudy giuliani will have no izmir which ic. elie honig, also back here with us. can, you hear from giuliani, there you see his defense against this article as he is filing that lawsuit, what do you make of the position he finds himself in? >> i can tell you that in the time that i work for, him in the early 90s, i never saw him during. i only saw him during that coke. so that is my frame of reference in terms of his alcohol consumption. i have seen him at the cigar bar on occasion, a closed in 2020, i saw him have a casual drink with other people. so i don't -- i was not in the room when he allegedly told trump to say you won. drunkenly. so, it was very good reporting, i must say, very in-depth. a lot of sources. most of them anonymous. but it was well researched and reported. >> but they're kind of look into this window, they know, that then you look into this window where that was amplified and they have all these people who are not anonymous who are on the record saying that is part of what we are seeing today in the gran

understanding, he does not have anything that would indicate criminality by the president, by rudy giuliani, or any member of the giuliani team. would he potentially be helpful in a case against sidney powell. i think he would. and i think that is kind of a wrinkle to this case that is difficult on a whole bunch of different levels. so i could see why they would want him to testify relevant to sidney powell. but, if you're not willing to give him the basic protections that any normal prosecutor in any other prosecuting office in the country would do, then you are just not going to be able to force him to testify. >> is sidney powell the only one that he might have evidence against or testimony against? are there other individuals that he might have witnessed something that is worth discussing? >> in this group, it is primarily sidney powell. because the testimony that he has is that rudy giuliani and his whole team, they were pursuing leads. they were hampered by lack of time. a lack of resources and so that prevented them from being able to chase everything down completely. it certainly di

pleading guilty to one count of aiding and abetting of a hearing she attended 2013 importantly with rudy giuliani, and why is that important, because she made a statement, and delivered an elocution inside of the courtroom. >> which the judge said was unusual, and -- >> and emotional. >> and if i knew nthen what i know now, i would not have represented donald trump, and i failed to do due diligence and the implication is that she was told things maybe by rudy giuliani that were not true, and now she gets that she listened. >> and let's talk about normnormize -- norm eisen, and he was the counsel for donald trump in the first impeachment, and what is your reaction to this? >> it is another milestone in the compatibility of the events that culminated january 6th. you have three lawyers participating, and a federal judge has called assault on the 2020 election a coupe in search of a legal theory. jenna ellis today, last week, ken cheese sebro and sidney pows plea are important, because ms. ellis spoke to the false facts that underlie the assault. so i think it is a significant milestone as we contin

and if your donald trump or rudy giuliani or any of these people, i think you are shivering. this is very scary stuff. >> neal katyal, barbara mcquade, amy lee copeland, pink you very much for coming to the last word. and coming, up donald trump dot to sit the new york courtroom today and listen to his former lawyer and fixer michael cohen accused him of lying about his wealth. and one thing we know for sure tonight, donald trump was mad. that's next. 's next. remember the things you loved... ...before asthma got in the way? fasenra is an add-on treatment for asthma driven by eosinophils. it's designed to target and remove them and helps prevent asthma attacks. fasenra is not for sudden breathing problems or other eosinophilic conditions. allergic reactions may occur. don't stop your asthma treatments without talking with your doctor. tell your doctor if your asthma worsens. headache and sore throat may occur. tell your doctor if you have a parasitic infection. get back to better breathing. ask your doctor about fasenra. can we get real clear about life with psoriasis? yeah,

and if your donald trump or rudy giuliani or any of these people, i think you are shivering. this is very scary stuff. >> neal katyal, barbara mcquade, amy lee copeland, pink you very much for coming to the last word. and coming, up donald trump dot to sit the new york courtroom today and listen to his former lawyer and fixer michael cohen accused him of lying about his wealth. and one thing we know for sure tonight, donald trump was mad. that's next. d. that's next. crohn's disease. now, there's skyrizi. ♪ things are looking up, i've got symptom relief. ♪ ♪ control of my crohn's means everything to me. ♪ ♪ control is everything to me. ♪ feel significant symptom relief at 4 weeks with skyrizi, including less abdominal pain and fewer bowel movements. skyrizi is the first il-23 inhibitor that can deliver remission and visibly improve damage of the intestinal lining. and the majority of people experienced long-lasting remission at one year. serious allergic reactions and an increased risk of infections or a lower ability to fight them may occur. tell your doctor if you have an i

is there, and i did false stuff, but how threatening is that to rudy giuliani? >> i think it is very effective and she relied on him, and saying that there were multiple lawyers who had greater expert experience and expertise on them, and she wished she hadn't, and so it is pointing finger squarely at giuliani and increases pressure on him, and not clear to any circumstances that giuliani would cooperate, and perhaps he would enter a guilty plea at some point, and this is increasing pressure on him to do so, and she could be an effective witness on the point that she was making that there had not been fraud of the voting in georgia and the things that she plead guilty to aiding and abetting falts statement faf the people she had reported on as fraud, and saying it is false, and acknowledging it is false, and the testimony even in a case against trump and others of how she has come to understand how that is false allegations can be powerful in the legal case against them in respect to knowingly engaging in conduct of overturning an election, and publicly acknowle

now, rudy giuliani is getting more pressure. and that in turn is going to lead to more pressure on rudy giuliani to flip against donald trump. now, we're working our way up the food chain and listen, we jumped a couple of rungs in that ladder in terms of important co-defendants. this is significant because i have just been speaking to joyce vance and msnbc legal analyst about who was going to flip and she and i were saying, there are a lot of people left, 16, but jenna ellis is the one that has been complaining the loudest and most publicly about how the fact she felt she was left in the cold because her attorney fees weren't being paid and you were seeing a future trial that has yet to be set for any of the remaining 15 co-defendants and a very long slog for somebody like jenna ellis. she decided i'm going to cut my losses now. i just want to note for you, inside the courtroom, jenna ellis was crying and we have video of that and also hugging her defense attorneys and also shaking hands with the prosecutors and so, look, she ha

trump definitively he lost weakens his argument. >> so, in jack smith's january 6th prosecution, rudy giulianicted coconspirator number one. we know that on election day, giuliani told trump just say you won. now trump's -- one of his defenses that he's floated as, well, i was just doing what my lawyers told me to do, the lawyers told me that the election was stolen. the lawyers said, everything that i was doing was legal. well, if one of the lawyers was drunk, that eviscerates that defense. >> wow. >> let me ask you between the whole plea deal thing. somebody pleads in fani willis's case. what does that do if they are also involved in jack smith's case. >> it gives them exposure. which is why people like donald trump and john eastman and rudy giuliani are unlikely too plead guilty even if willis offers them the best deal because jack smith could still indictment them, he has indicted trump and could use that as evidence against trump. and other people he hasn't indicted like giuliani and eastman, we could be sure that at some point based on the allegations in the trump indictment that jack sm

rudy giuliani is a rico defendant in georgia. he's banned from practicing law.new reports he's facing over $50000 in back taxes. because of that, the irs has placed a lien on his florida condo. maybe he can move in with trump. earlier this week, giuliani lost his georgia attorney, leaving him without local lawyers in the state. same thing happening to another trump loyalist, the mypillow guy, mike lindell, facing lawsuits related to phony election claims. like giuliani, his lawyers are dropping him, saying he owes millions. these are two of trump's most staunch loyalists who promoted the big lie, now are getting raged over the coals. >> this is not a singular voter fraud in one state, this pattern repeats itself in a number of states. >> over 54 countries have now been taken by the machines. >> this election was stolen by mail-in ballots. those are the ballots that were stuck in the machine eight times, nine times, ten times. >> i have the evidence. i dare people to put it on. i dare dominion to sue me. then it would be put on faster. >> you don't have to be a g

but jake, let me allow rudy giuliani to explain this in his own words. >> he said, you're buddy, rudyiuliani, he, then he said something we can't understand -- like he does sometimes. is being used as a russian pawn. he's being fed information that is russian -- that is not true. i'm trying to give you the flavor of the -- you could go listen to it yourself. >> they would not answer exactly how giuliani is going to pay for this legal effort. he owes other lawyers millions of dollars and earlier today his georgia lawyer withdrew raising more questions about how he's going to pay to defendant himself in that case. >> i predict that that is going to go nowhere. >> this lawsuit? >> i think that is a reasonable prediction. this was a sparsely attended press conference and again it is a very high bar. it is unclear why he is doing this now. again, he owes so many lawyers including some of his closest fri friends millions of dollars. >> i think i know why. >>> the leader of the republican party faces a fraud charges and 91 charges and republicans do not have a leader. my next guest has a uni

i imagine that is at least part of the problem that rudy giuliani has.rom grace for someone who's the former u.s. attorney for the southern district of new york, my old office, who has connections to other lawyers, who was a decorated lawyer at one time himself. to not be able to find counsel, it's really just -- it shows just what a -- what a fall from grace and what a just difficult position he finds himself in and you know, some of the reporting today about the special counsel investigating and asking questions about his being impaired, you know, and drinking alcohol on election night and other nights, i mean, this is somebody who is certainly not an ideal client, and so i think it's going to be difficult for him to find counsel, certainly counsel that's not already conflicted and on the case, but also counsel that wants to deal with rudy giuliani. >> fall from grace, difficult client, seems to be a very popular phrase that we hear a lot these days when it comes to these cases. glenn kirschner, kristy greenberg, always great to see you both. glenn, we

she was there when rudy giuliani -- she was there with rudy giuliani at that infamous press conferenceollowing the 2020 election where hair dye was dripping down his face faster than they could spout out their wild fact-free claims about widespread voter fraud. she traveled with giuliani to contested states to urge lawmakers to reject their own state's votes. she also took it upon herself to write multiple mes claiming that mike pence had every right to refuse to count the electoral votes from certain states and she was a regular on cable news, pushing the big lie and other conspiracy theories surrounding the election, none of which were true, and she knew it. she admitted that earlier this year when she was censured by the colorado state bar. she admitted again today and tried to claim it was she who had been duped. >> i relied on others including lawyers with many more years of experience than i to provide me with true and reliable information. what i did not do but should have done, your honor, was make sure the facts the other lawyers alleged to be true were in fact true. if i knew

including donald trump, and rudy giuliani.at front. peppered throughout the indictment are examples of chesebro skimming with the former new york city mayor. on december 12th of 2020, chesebro met with the chair of the republican party in wisconsin, a man named bryan shipping. in that meeting, they, quote, discussed the december 14th 2020 meeting of trump fake elector nominees in that state. rudy giuliani joined the meeting by telephone, and stated that the media should not be notified that the fake elector meeting was taking place. a day later, on december 13th, 2020, chesebro sent another email to giuliani. this one outlined multiple strategies for disrupting and delaying the joint session of congress on january 6th 2020. the day congress was to certify the election for joe biden. that same day, chesebro sent an email to a trump campaign officials saying of another fake elector meeting, giuliani wants to keep this quiet until after all the voting is done. and now, mr. chesebro will have to tell prosecutors what exactly happe

certainly we have seen her in those press conferences beside rudy giuliani, beside sydney powell, sydney her have now pleaded guilty, which means the last person standing is giuliani. do you think that they are after giuliani, eastman, trump? are those the biggest players for her testimony? >> you were a prosecutor, you know how it works. you flip the people lower down then you move up the food chain until you get to the big fish. there is to, giuliani and beyond him only trump. >> not eastman? >> eastman is probably going to be approached more through the can chesbrough plea. chesbrough worked more closely with eastman. but here, when you combine on the giuliani front, sydney powell, ken chesbrough, and now perhaps his closest aide, jenna ellis who was so persuasive and court today, whether she meant it or not, her remorse, her tears, even the judge complemented her, saying he seldom heard from a defendant that trifecta is very dangerous for giuliani. and then, what fani willis and jack smith flipping giuliani, get to trump. so, meadows and alyssa like, big development and trump's feder

. >>> and asking about rudy giuliani's drinking habits. how it plays into the legal matter and how rudy giuliani is responding. >> when the hell was i drinking? i was working 24 hours a day. it's a big damn lie. >>> any of the candidates stood up today trying to defend mccarthy in truth is open for primary returns. you got to make decisions here. >> that is steve bannon, former advisor to president trump, who now streams live. missed the word "war" behind him. that s said war room, from his basement every weekday. he helped lead to demise of kevin mccarthy as house speaker. >> for weeks mr. bannon strategizing with congressman matt gaetz on a bid to take town mr. mccarthy offering himself up as a sounding board. kaboom texts minutes after mr. goetz filed his long dangled motion to oust the speaker. i want to bring our panel back, and the john, start with you. i was grinning start of this, because this is the most bannon thing in the history of bannon things, and there was almost no chance he wasn't somewhere in this process. >> uh-huh. >>

she was close to people like rudy giuliani. she worked with sidney powell, who entered a guilty plea of her own last week. she also was responsible for organizing the legislative hearings in georgia. basically, baseless claims about election results being tainted there. they were presented to friendly republican lawmakers. she wrote legal memos arguing that mike pence did have the ability to overturn the election results on january 6th, 2021. so, another high-profile lawyer here. co-defendant of donald trump, pleading guilty and taking a deal with the prosecutors of georgia. >> if this case has gone to trial, the state would show the following. on december 3rd, 2020, the defendant did appear before a subcommittee in fulton county, georgia, with co-defendants and other individuals associated with donald j. trump for president incorporated, also nope as the trump campaign. giuliani and smith, acting as attorneys for the trump campaign, made the following false statements. one, that at least 96,600 known ballots were counted in th

serve as a witness in the investigations and the prosecutions of others. >> i would say maybe rudy giuliani is the only other person that it would be so significant to essentially cooperate at trial. >> it is a sprawling case, and we will have to see where the tentacles go, because as katelyn polantz said, she had seize the day, and now she is going to seize the deal. and now, the other parts of this case. we are seeing jim jordan and the maybe stalled quest to become the next speaker of the house. and what the house republicans have just decided to do. the coverage continues after this. >> we are following breaking news right now. the house republicans are headed back behind closed door and the point is looking at options with regard to the fight over the speaker. jim jordan spoke to lauren fox, and listen to this. >> just ask you at this point, do you think that empowering mchenry for a short period of time might give you more chance to win over some of the skeptical republicans? >> we are going to bring the conference together and look at all kinds of options at the conference. >> all ki

i suppose rudy giuliani is up there on the weak witness category as well, but sidney powell has toldmany untruths that i think it's hard to take her seriously. kenneth chesbro is a more serious person, although he has some problems himself, after all, you know, he was the one in emails talking about this as a fake electors scheme. and, look, anybody who is a convicted felon, anyone who has cut a deal with the government is subject to criticism, but now the da has two witnesses and one advantage of i would say a shotgun approach where you're charging a lot of different people with a lot of different crimes. when you fire a shotgun into a crowd you're going to hit somebody. she's bagged a couple targets and more potentially. >> and notably powell and chesbro in their agreements, they have also agreed to testify in future trials including jack smith's federal election subversion case. if you are part of donald trump's defense team none of this is good. >> absolutely not. absolutely not. i mean, there's certainly a wall that is breaking down for donald trump here and, you know, part of t

powell and then -- and then jenna ellis will follow me >> seth: trump's only defense here is that rudy giulianiorthy, which is true, but then it applies to everything including the election fraud claims. you can't have it both ways. "that rudy guy is out of his [ bleep ] mind you can't trust a word he says except on china and hugo chavez. [ laughter ] teaming up with your minion and big tech to steal the election, it's weird because on that he's right on the money usually crazy. [ light laughter ] and then of course there's one more small problem with trump's claim, that powell was never his attorney in november of 2020 trump said that powell was his attorney >> the president wrote, "i look forward to mayor giuliani's spearheading the legal effort to defend our right to free and fair elections rudy giuliani, joseph digenova, victoria toensing, sidney powell and jenna ellis, a truly great team added to our other wonderful lawyers and representatives. >> seth: it's like "ocean's eleven" if they were trying to give $160 million to a casino. "okay, rudy. let's go over the plan one more time blackja

also pay attention to john eastman and rudy giuliani. these are both individuals that ken chesebro could provide tail light about with raespect to th crafting of the fake electors scheme. all of them played some role therein, and chesebro could provide a tremendous amount of valuable testimony. and frankly, i would think that's far more what prosecutors are interested in than testimony that chesebro could provide about donald trump. the other thing i would note is it's a felony, and paula mentioned this a moment ago as well, sidney powell pled guilty to a number of misdemeanors. pleading guilty carrying a number of restrictions on somebody's rights. it could affect his right to vote, his right to own a firearm until restored by the governor of the state. this is quite significant for him and all the other defendant. >> elliot, thank you so much. appreciate it. and as we digest that, we remember that i'm here on capitol hill because we still don't have a speaker of the house. part of the reason for that is because a man who donald trump s

she was at press conferences with rudy giuliani in georgia.ite house in december of 2020 discussing seizing voting machines, so she is someone who is very, very important for the prosecution as a prosecution witness, and she's deadly to the higher level defendants because she was there. she was the one who entered into that forensic data contract. she is not certainly going to say i did this all on my own. if she was going to say that, she would not be pleading guilty. this is very important to have someone that high up in the ladder of this rico conspiracy be pleading guilty. >> obviously she's a lawyer herself, so she didn't believe that she could defend herself or have her lawyers, her representatives defend her effectively not to get a guilty plea at trial. why do you think she chose to go this route? >> because this is happening all over the country in courthouses, defendants who are guilty suddenly see oh, my goodness, this is real. and ms. powell certainly did not want to serve time in a georgia state prison. she was offered misdemeanor

you might rooej rudy giuliani, i was too incapacitated. didn't understand what was happening when i interacted with these people. that's one issue if there's a possibility of that being a defense, prosecutors are going to want to look into it themselves to counter that narrative. >> is there also the issue of donald trump, if he knew that he was inebriated he knew one of his members of his counsel was inebriated, that could play a role here. >> anytime you have that issue, an issue of whether someone's doing something with their full faculties, you'll want to explore all of the options, i think the prosecutor's position is that he shouldn't have been relied on refugee rudy giuliani no matter what state he was in. but sure, they'll want to play out everywhere that takes them if they decide that someone actually truly was incapacitated and wasn't able to act. >> every possible scenario they're trying to look at. thank you so much, jennifer rogers, appreciate your analysis. coming up for us, what happens now in the house of representatives. r

his last vacation [ laughter ] the irs last week placed a lien on a florida property owned by rudy giulianising the haunted mansion? [ laughter ] "it's all yours. those ghosts won't let me sleep. [ laughter ] after leaving the white house, former president trump reportedly shared details about the capabilities of u.s. nuclear submarines with an australian billionaire, including how close they can sail to russian vessels without being detected said trump, "oh, come on i'm not an idiot i told putin first." [ laughter ] house republicans reportedly held a phones off, closed door meeting today to discuss the speakership. and when they turned their phones back on, matt gaetz had three more venmo requests. [ laughter ] new york governor kathy hochul ordered the state liquor authority to allow bars to serve alcohol as early as 8:00 a.m. yesterday for the buffalo bills game played in london. not only that, during the giants game, she temporarily legalized heroin [ laughter ] the genetic testing company 23 and me announced last week that hackers stole personal data from their data base authorities d

let's start with rudy giuliani. we just learned his lawyer in georgia is withdrawing from the case. viously, this comes as giuliani -- there's been a lot of questions about how giuliani is going to pay for his legal representation in the georgia case. he also faces scrutiny in a variety of civil matters, too, so rudy giuliani facing more questions as he loses another lawyer in the georgia case where, as you mentioned, prosecutors have floated the idea of plea deals to multiple defendants, telling me and our colleague sara murray, that this includes multiple defendants that, in addition scott paul, the bail bondsman, who's already accepted a plea deal in exchange for cooperation in this case. again, this is all happening in the lead-up to the start of a trial date here, scheduled to start the end of the month. so, prosecutors are trying to reduce the size and number of defendants in this case. there's 19 of them. and they want to secure cooperation from them if they're willing to accept lesser charges to basically flip on their fellow co-defendants. we're looking ahead to the trial, b

less than two weeks after trump lost the election to joe biden, powell joined rudy giuliani and otherso claim without evidence that the socialist government of venezuela and hugo chavez who had been dead for almost a decade at that point, that they interfered in the 2020 election. china, according to powell, was also part of that plot. >> what we are really dealing with here and uncovering more by the day is the massive influence of communist money through venezuela, cuba, and likely china in the interference with our elections here in the united states. >> three years later it still boggles the mind. but even after powell went public with that wack adoodle theory trump considered making sidney powell a special counsel to investigate election fraud. that happened during an infamous white house meeting in december of 2020, a meeting that sidney powell, rudy giuliani, and others colocwale known as team crazy, that they tried to have in secret with president trump. in that meeting powell and others raised the prospect of seizing voting machines from key counties and deploying the national

at future trials which might not bode well for co-defendants like former fellow trump attorney rudy giuliani plea deal one day before her speedy trial was set to start with attorney kenneth c chesbrough. >> what the district attorney is doing is making a lot of these plea deals. we will see more than what we have seen so far. she is trying to get this case boiled down to something that's smaller, more manageable for the courts because her true targets in this case obviously are donald trump and probably rudy giuliani. >> and the case here in atlanta is one of four ongoing criminal indictments against former president donald trump. >> bret: we will continue to follow it. you were next the panel on the war? israel. the president's upcoming speech and jordan's gamble in the house speaker effort. fox 5 in new york with new allegations against suspected gilgo beach serial killer rex herman. a lawyer for alleged victim's family says heuermann is a serial user of sex workers who attended so-called swinger parties. he said heuermann had firsthand run-ins with two women whose bodies were found under

i think we can speculate who she is referring to is rudy giuliani. at position to provide the prosecution with more information about giuliani's own role in all of this, and how that relates to donald trump. she is the lady of the hour, i think her deal is perhaps the most significant here, she has a lot of tentacles both in the fake electors scheme, also in the georgia voting machine scheme. so she is a lot of information that she can provide here. >> real quick, have you ever in your entire life heard of 01 mob boss testifying against another mob boss in court? >> so, again, i don't have a lot of experience with mob trials outside of the sopranos, but if we were going to have such a scenario, not just with my bosses but with individuals involved in two distinct conspiracies, this might be the place that happens. >> i'm just asking, because donald trump, sorry, rudy giuliani taking the stand, i might have to show up in court. >> explosive. >> melissa murray, thank you so much for coming back to the sunday show. >> thanks for having me. >> and up next

it seems to me like if you talk to trump's lawyers, jenna ellis flipping puts squarely rudy giuliani sights. >> surely does, but they're also talking about a r. i. c. o. case. anytime you get evidence against one defendant, that goes against all of them. yes, you are building a case against rudy, but that case against rudy will also be a case against trump. it's not just that for one person, it's not for everybody left over. >> it's interesting that you say that, because i remember when the case was brought, the last of the criminal cases to be brought, there was a lot of time wasted on george's r. i. c. o. law, a strong -- candy fulton county office manage the complex case? willis is having a pretty good time so far, imran? >> you are not wrong. she has given pretty generous plea deals. times will tell whether those are good deals. >> the federal prosecutors, i would have say the same thing. >> i think time will tell, but she is clearly focused on getting people -- which is what people thought she would do. she is narrowing down the defendants quite quickly. she is moving solely fro

rudy giuliani and john eastman?he point, what does he mean for jackson, with who special counsel who is overlooking the case against donald trump? neil cattle will and anna bowers will join me next to discuss the implications of this potentially seismic development. stay with us. h us but i'm protected with arexvy. arexvy is a vaccine used to prevent lower respiratory disease from rsv in people 60 years and older. rsv can be serious for those over 60, including those with asthma, diabetes, copd, and certain other conditions. but i'm protected. arexvy is proven to be over 82% effective in preventing lower respiratory disease from rsv and over 94% effective in those with these health conditions. arexvy does not protect everyone and is not for those with severe allergic reactions to its ingredients. those with weakened immune systems may have a lower response to the vaccine. the most common side effects are injection site pain, fatigue, muscle pain, headache, and joint pain. i chose arexvy. rsv? make it arexvy. having

it was a game to rudy giuliani. it was a game to -- >> not the right word. >> that was the right word. game. exactly. that was the right word. >> good job there, willie. >> it was a game of relevance. rudy giuliani was suddenly important again. cameras were following him and listening to him and jenna ellis, we know her name, sidney powell, we knew her name. they got to be famous and they thought close to power. we said this a million times on the show, the ideal that loyalty is a two-way street with donald trump is so incredibly naive it's staggering that these people thought they were going to get anything back from him when they need him, which is right now. and of course he's running the other direction. so chuck rosenberg, let me ask you first about the distinction between a plea deal, which this is not for mark meadows and an immunity deal and why that might be significant and mark meadows is cooperating on jack smith with this 2020 election case, do we also believe or would it seem logical that he's also coop

york times" reported yesterday that federal prosecutors are investigating his drinking habits, rudy giulianiers, quote, "i do not have an alcohol problem. i have never had an alcohol problem. rudy, man, they're giving you a perfect excuse take the off-ramp. [ laughter ] do you really want people to think you helped an insurrectionist, went to the wrong four seasons, leaked hair dye, and wore these shorts while you were stone cold sober? [ laughter ] after it was reported, they put, if you wear those shorts, that's a drunk driving test [ laughter ] they pull you over and they go, "do you want to put these on?" if you're like, "yeah, i'll put them on," they're like, "get in the car. after it was reported that prosecutors are investigating his drinking habits, rudy giuliani told reporters, quote, "if i have an alcohol problem, i should be in the 'guinness book of world records.'" but it turns out he already is [ laughter ] russian president vladimir putin turns 71 on saturday he's going to celebrate by pushing a cake off a balcony [ laughter ] you guys must love cake. [ laughter ] and in a new

us is that go all the way to impacting rudy giuliani.bly has many more conversations with donald trump. i think what really matters from these gillotti plays are the dominoes that are yet to fall they are really the first domino in the series. >> tara what do you make of this what do you think trump's thinking as he sees's die hard allies turn on him. we know how important loyalty is to this man. these are two people sydney powell, at one point was supposed to be a strong trump loyalist. >> sydney powell, who? she was never his lawyer. he's giving her the coffee boy treatment here and it's funny to me because counselor kraken after they found out and now she is turning states evidence. donald trump is not happy about this. we know. he's been unhappy about the fact that there is a r.i.c.o. charge. you have all these people who are more incentivized to flipping become states evidence than to go down with donald trump he demands loyalty to everybody else but he's not loyal to anyone. so, i interviewed michael cohen once and i asked him whic

let's talk also about rudy giuliani. he's lost his local attorneys.er has left the case. so we'll put up the names. he had david wolfe and brian tevis, and john esposito. this is a problem. he doesn't have enough money left. although he has enough money to sue the president of the united states. what happens if he runs out of cash? does he end up with a public defender? is this something that could happen? >> yes, if he truly runs out of cash. before he does that, he would have to submit a financial affidavit showing his assets. so there's been reports he's got a $6 million apartment that he put up for sale in manhattan. if so, where are the proceeds of that? that needs to be used to pay his legal fees before taxpayer funds get used for legal fees. there are other assets to be explored. how much does he have in bank accounts. a judge would examine that first before deciding whether to appoint counsel that is typically given to people who are indigent or otherwise low income and can't afford it, but i think we're a long way from rudy giuliani demonstra

so for rudy giuliani, this is really a very bad development.ontinued civil liability in connection with his d.c. case against him. he is facing significant criminal liability, and he certainly is a former doj official, knows exactly what is coming, and also his off ramp, if he were to cooperate. so i think that is the thing that i'm sort of very much focused on, the honestly the mark meadows piece, if the reporting is true, is a huge development with respect to donald trump's liability. >> neil, real quick, who do you think is the next to fold here? >> i agree with andrew, i think it's rudy giuliani is a target. the thing to watch and the next week is not someone who's gonna fold, but ivanka trump testifying against her husband, against, excuse me, against her father, compelled by the court, and basically it's the old legal adagio. those families who commit crime together, testify together. >> all things to watch. we'll talk more about it next week, neal katyal and andrew weissmann, thank, you as always. for sharing with us your legal wisdom. c

>> so, this is very bad news for rudy giuliani. in her statement there, i was relying on more experienced lawyers actually provide truthful and reliable information. and basically, i just failed to fact check them and do my due diligence. well, who is she talking about? she's clearly talking about rudy giuliani here. and jenna ellis, unlike sydney powell and kenneth chesebro, jenna ellis's plea, she specifically promised full cooperation to the dea. that includes, it's stated on the record, more interviews, providing documents. she will continue to meet with prosecutors, so, you know, if she's providing emails and continuing to help the dea as they build their case, that could be very damning for rudy giuliani. i think as to donald trump, it's a bit of a mixed bag. on the one hand, it is significant that you have one of donald trump's lawyers acknowledging now that the voter fraud claims that they made are false, that they were false. so, having one of them do that -- is significant. that said, i think the same story that she is te

so she's directly pointing the finger at rudy giuliani here. the larger question is whether that's all that credible. you know, i think her value as a cooperator i think to jack smith would be if she had said, oh, if i knew then what i know now, what did others know then? did you really think donald trump won in a landslide there was evidence to support that? she went on and on about the fact and evidence to claim she was relying on others i think she has a credibility problem. if she's going in to see jack smith she's going to press on these claims what she knew and what the conversations were with others before she just points the finger at others. >> right, and that statement is one she drafted as you both know from your experience and to remind viewers, in a criminal case you're not answering targeted questions. you're not philosophically on remorse unless you get to the sentencing phase. and i want to put up a federal chart we showed. when that first came down the pipe people thought, oh, why so many unindicted coconspirators? do you think

or you might remember powell from that infamous press conference she held with rudy giuliani shortlyhe election, the one where it looked like a-1 steak sauce was dripping from his skull. [ laughter ] not that we want to imply that anything that comes out of rudy's head is a-1 [ laughter ] powell made a bunch of completely unhinged claims like these. >> what we are really dealing with here and uncovering more by the day is the massive influence of communist money through venezuela, cuba, and likely china, and the interference with our elections here in the united states. the dominion voting systems, the smartmatic technology software, and the software that goes into other computerized voting systems here as well, not just dominion, were created in venezuela at the direction of hugo chavez to make sure he never lost an election >> seth: do you think when trump was watching that, he said "oh, [ bleep ], it takes my lawyer a full minute to get a cap off his water. [ laughter ] are you seeing this? it's taking him a full -- a full [ bleep ] minute." [ laughter ] the other craziest thing a

i think rudy giuliani is the target.ch in the next week is not someone who's gonna fault, but ivanka trump testifying against her husband -- against her father, excuse me, compelled by the court. and basically it's the old legal at dodge. those families who have committed crimes together testified together. >> all things to watch. we'll talk about it next week. you'll catch yell, and you weisman, thank you so much for sharing with us your legal wisdom. coming up, as the people of lewiston maine continue degree following this weekend's mass shooting, i'll have some thoughts of my own about the epidemic of gun violence and where the country goes from here. plus, a conversation with two of the most powerful young voices on gun safety. david hogg, and justin jones will join me in a few minutes. stay with me. stay with me police and two are dead and 16 more wounded -- tampa bay, florida. hundreds were gathered in the streets for halloween festivities went in and altercation between two groups broke out. investigators believe

rudy giuliani and john eastman? more to the point, what does he mean for jackson, with who special counsel who is overlooking the case against donald trump? neil cattle will and anna bowers will join me next to discuss the implications of this potentially seismic development. stay with us. stay with us hi, my name's steve. i lost 138 pounds on golo and i kept it off. golo's changed my life in so many ways. before, i was over 300 pounds. now, i literally have the ability to take a shirt off and go out in the sun where i would have never done that before. try golo. it works. (upbeat music) - [narrator] what if there was a hearing aid that could keep up with you? (notification dings) this is jabra enhance select. it's a smart hearing solution that makes hearing aids more convenient and less expensive. it connects with your phone so you can stream calls and music. with jabra enhance select's premium package, better hearing doesn't have to start in a doctor's office. it starts with a free online hearing test you could ta

so we could see her take the stand in a hearing down the line featuring donald trump or rudy giuliani, where she has first hand knowledge. >> thank you for that reporting. here to expand on that and understand what it means for donald trump and her place in his orbit is mag give habmaggie haberman. when are you hearing from inside trump world about this deal and what are thee reverberations? >> this caught trump world by surprise. this was one of the best-kept secrets out of that d.a.'s office. they are trying to figure out what it means. there are some people tell pg me they don't think this is that big of deal for him. they think her ability to actually really testify is marginal. they are this shows that the da overcharged in this case. the flip side is the argument that she intentionally charged this way so she could get guilty pleas. there's nobody who is happy about it. there's concern about the degree to which powell could offer information, not just about former president trump, but about rudy giuliani, as noted before. now the former president is still most concerned right no