and that's cassidy hutchinson and sarah matthews.ean, cassidy hutchinson had to fire a lawyer and hire someone. she had no money. she was afraid of what trump world would do to her. sarah matthews quit on january 6th because she knew what was going on was wrong and she couldn't live with it. that is what really came out to me in these transcripts, these two women. >> there was fear there. there still may be. one of the things we read in the cassidy hutchinson transcript also was conversations she testified to with kevin mccarthy that the former president, donald trump would acknowledge mccarthy said that he had lost at times but then waver on it. what is important here? >> this tees up such a crucial decision that the justice department now has to make which is how hard do they push to get testimony from kevin mccarthy? the january 6 committee subpoenaed mccarthy. he brushed them off and they did nothing. they referred him to the house ethics committee. who cares. nothing is going to happen there. doj has grand jury subpoenas. if kev

and, a transcript from sarah matthews, working in a press secretary, kayleigh mcenany.her closed-door interview with the committee in february, matthews testified, after trump said the incendiary tweet about how vice president pence did not have the courage to do what should have been done after he was, repeatedly, told to encourage violent crowds to stay peaceful, trump was resistant. here is what matthews told the committee. question, did miss mcenany described, in any way, how resistant the president was to including something about being peaceful? this is matthew's. just that he didn't want to include it. that they got him to agree on the phrasing, stay peaceful. matthews then summarizes this exchange with the trump aide, as the team decided to condemn the violence on that day. i relayed again, i thought it needed to have a forceful condemnation of the violence, that there needed to be a call to action, to ask people to leave the capital. it was in a room in the press office, where others were gathered. a colleague of mine suggested, that he not condemn the violence

sarah matthews' testimony i think could be fairly intriguing for the fact that she left specifically of trump's state of mind that day, and ultimately that's kind of the dispositive question for whether or not the department of justice could decide to bring any type of action against the former president. >> we're going to take a quick break here. we're going to come back and go around the horn again so we can hear more from each of these brilliant analysts. anna palmer may be leaving. thank you for starting us off. you're the only one we're losing. i wish you could stay, but you have somewhere to go, damn you. when we come back, we'll have much more on the latest release by the january 6th select committee new transcripts. hot off the presses, freshly baked. some of the more than a thousand witnesses that went before the committee. >>> plus, at the end of the show, we will have a big recap of a big week in washington with the one and only nbc news presidential historian, michael beschloss, "deadline white house" continues after a quick break, so please hang in there. (vo) red lobste

let's bring in former white house press secretary, sarah matthews.he resigned on january 6th and testified before the january 6th committee. this is an extensive report no doubt. the committee places the blame right at the feet of the former president, trump, for this insurrection, and they conclude he should be barred from office. do you believe that this report is the next step in accountability for the former president and do you believe he should be barred from office? >> i do agree with that assessment. i think the report shows this was a very orchestrated effort by trump and his co-conspirators to try to overturn the election and that on january 6th it played out exactly how donald trump wanted it to. he sat by and watched as the riot unfolded and never once picked up the phone to try to call for help. even when his own vp was under attack. so i do think that he shouldn't hold office ever again and i hope this report now, you know that doj will have all the evidence that the committee has collected, will go forth and hopefully do something with

journi jo joining us is former press secretary sarah matthews. note you resigned after what happened on january 6th. are you surprised to hear what your colleague testified about mark meadows burning documents in his office? >> it doesn't surprise me. he was consistently one of the biggest enablers of trump and just hearing from folks that i worked with who were often in the room with him when he was with president trump, he usually didn't push back on trump. so it doesn't surprise me to hear he wasn't acting in accordance with the law. >> can you remind viewers what kind of chief of staff mark meadows was. you said he was a huge enabler of trump. what was it like working underneath him? >> yeah, i think i consistently felt like that he didn't necessarily look out for the staff and that his biggest concern was just protecting his own reputation or protecting himself in the eyes of the former president and trying to always make sure that he was ap appeasing former president trump and staying on his good side. >> in the white house you have to pres

. >>> jake, now with me, sarah matthews, the deputy white house press secretary in the trump white houseied before the select committee. i'm really curious to pick up where they were talking about. he has to start campaigning. he is obviously running again. some would say it's a time to pivot away from the 2020 election. they're advising him to do so. do you think he will lead that warning given all that is before him? >> i don't think he can help himself. it is he wants to keep relitigating it. he can't get past the fact that he lost. if we know anything about donald trump, it is all about winning. he can't get past it and can't get out of his own way. i think that the mid-term elections showed us that voters are wanting to move on from it. we saw in large part voters rejected election deniers and extremists so that will hurt him if he were to continue doing that. i don't think he can help himself. >> well, january is around the corner. we'll know if he continues to do so. in terms of reaction, what are you hearing about how he is receiving all this? remember, the committee for the past

just heard from there, former deputy white house press secretary under former president trump, sarah matthewswho resigned the night of the riots and testified before the committee. you testified you were one of the few people who went out and did it. a lot of other people superior to you in the administration fought appearing before the committee, including the former vice president. i wonder as we reflect on their work so far if you think january 6th committee has accomplished what they set out to accomplish? >> i think they have been successful in their goal. i think they wanted to shed light on what really happened, how could something like january 6th happen here in america. and what they uncovered is that this was a very orchestrated plot by president trump and his conspirators. i was inside the white house myself and i didn't realize this was going on behind the scenes, the full extent of it. i was learning in real-time with the american people watching it unfold in the hearings. i think the hearings were compelling and provided a lot of evidence to show that trump tried to overturn the

sarah matthews, who is a press aide in the trump white house. ken klukowski, an important player at the department of justice. our team is digging through those. this comes after the committee released a transcript from a blockbuster witness, someone everyone knows from watching the hearings earlier today, cassidy hutchinson. new details about the pressure campaign a blockbuster witness face prd i overheard the president say something to the effect of, i don't care that they have weapons, they're not here to hurt me, take the effing bags away. >> reporter: as she fought to convey details, cassidy hutchinson told the committee her first attorney, cnn identified as former white house ethics lawyer stefan passentino, allegedly encouraged her to deceive congress and downplay events of january 6th. "the less you remember, the better," he said according to hutchinson's testimony and allegedly advised her to stop talking to the committee saying contempt is a small risk. hutchinson said the attorney, paid for by allies of former president trump, never e

then there is the second camp sarah matthews, cassie hutchinson, younger aides to the president who seemnd of crisis of conscience or moment of revelation where they thought i don't want to be part of this. the testimony suggests that at that moment their entire friendship structure, support structure could be over and could turn in on them, that history could judge them, their peers could judge them, they could judge themselves. such a strikingly different set. roger stone versus cassidy hutchinson and then the sort of spectrum. >> and the transcript we saw released today from cassie hutchinson really embodied that and illuminated the internal struggle she was having throughout the three depositions where her attorney continually said just keep saying you don't recall and you don't really need to be complete. he was paid for by her but retained by trump world. she ultimately jettisoned him as an attorney and got outside attorneys to represent her and that led to her testifying in public before the committee. you are absolutely right. it was this wrestling that she had with herself. >> t

joining me now is former trump white house deputy press secretary sarah matthews.igned from the trump administration on january 6th and testified before the january 6th committee both behind closed doors and in a public hearing. sara, it's good to have you here. this committee highlighted what you told them and among these findings, among these many pages they highlighted what you told them about the president's efforts to promote the fraudulent conspiracy theory about dominion voting machines and what that pressure did to then white house press secretary kaley kayleigh mcenany. you told them, mcenany felt uncomfortable promoting that conspiracy theory and the president asked her to talk about that during interviews. he did request her to do briefings on it as well but we did not. why was this an important moment to you? >> i think it was a largely important moment because even his own white house press secretary wasn't willing to go out there and lie and defend these conspiracy theories on his behalf and he also wanted her to do it from the white house podium. mea

so what do we get from cassidy hutchinson, from sarah matthews who was a deputy to kayleigh mcenany, who resigned on the day of january 6th. you actually get a lot of honest and prescient recollection of facts that ultimately tighten the screws on the senior staffers who are saying i just can't remember the insurrection. i don't remember my role in the insurrection. you know, one of the damning things in addition to 1600 pennsylvania avenue were the likes of marjorie taylor greene and others who are duly-elected representatives in the united states congress that clearly aided and abetted not just the planning but the day of. we know there were members of congress in contact with insurrectionists that day. ultimately, these are hard cases for the department of justice. most of this comes down to the judgment of voters, but there will be elements that the department of justice can look at and make some hard prosecutorial decisions. >> charles, that's why i want to follow up on, now that we know that the january 6th committee basically recommended very strict argument of why donald trum

in an interview with former deputy press secretary sarah matthews, who said she heard trump seemed to privately admit that he lost the 2020 election. quote, alyssa fara, the former communication director said to me that behind closed doors, that she had witnessed trump kind of acknowledge the next administration, and it seemed like he would slip up and privately acknowledge that there was going to be an incoming administration, and quote. lots of stuff like this in the transcripts. perhaps the most revolutionary transcript was from the committee's closed-door interview with this woman. you saw the public testimony of cassidy hutchinson. but the closed-door interview with cassidy hutchinson, the former aide to trump chief of staff mark meadows, was public testimony was some of the most memorable from the committees live hearings, particularly, and there was a secondhand anecdote she shared about just how desperate the ex president was to go to the capitol himself during the insurrection. >> the president said something to the effect of, i am the effing president, take me up to the capi

so what you get from cassidy hutchinson, sarah matthews who is a deputy to kayleigh mcenany, who resignedn the day of january six, you get a lot of honest impressions and recollection of facts that ultimately tightened the screws on those senior staffers who are saying, i just cannot remember the insurrection. i do not remember my role in the insurrection. when the damning things in addiction to -- where the likes of marjorie taylor greene and others who are duly elected representatives in the united states congress, they clearly it is embedded, not just the planning but the day. of you know they were contact with insurrectionists that day. these are hard cases for the doj, most of it comes down for voters, but there will be elements that the doj can look at that makes them hard prosecutorial decisions. >> so charles, that's why want to follow up on. now that we know that the january six committee basically recommended very strict argument of why donald trump, possibly giuliani, mark, meadows and eastman, should be prosecuted. possibly. they did touch their colleagues, they did not touch

sarah, can i put something to you from matthew— that. om matthew taylor, - that. sarah, can i put something to you from matthew taylor, from - that. sarah, can i put something to you from matthew taylor, from the nhs confederation, which represents health managers? he says he is worried that the action would undoubtedly affect patient care and how quickly ambulance services could respond and may even deter people from seeking help. notwithstanding the need to campaign for higher pay, are you concerned about how an ambulance strike would affect patient care? eli ambulance strike would affect patient care?— ambulance strike would affect atient care? _, , . patient care? of course, the impact of strikes in — patient care? of course, the impact of strikes in the _ patient care? of course, the impact of strikes in the health _ patient care? of course, the impact of strikes in the health service - patient care? of course, the impact of strikes in the health service is i of strikes in the health service is always a concern, and that is why it is

multiple members of the white house staff were incredibly forthcoming, including sarah matthews.of this in black and white? >> definitely a full circle moment. i resigned on the evening of january 6th disturbed by the events of that day and trump's decision to not call off the mob, and now seeing the whole investigation that the january 6th committee has conducted, it's even worse than i thought when i resign that had evening so now to be at this place, i never thought that i would be a witness testifying against my former boss, but definitely very surreal. >> alyssa, looking through this. we also look in here. they talk about lawyers who were representing maybe you all but others like you who were testifying when were saying say you don't recall when you do recall and saying oh, we'll give you a really good job. in one case one of the lawyers for somebody testified the client was offered potential employment that would make her financially very comfortable. >> i'm going to be very serious if the department of justice looks into what amounts to in my opinion witness tampering. we

. >> sarah matthews, thank you so much. >> laura, for more on this my partners in coverage all day are correspondent -- of the podcast the assignments. be sure to download that wherever you get your podcasts. also with us is cnn senior law enforcement analyst for the fbi deputy director andrew mccabe. let me start with, you. jamie we're obviously going to get even more information on wednesday that is when there is a full report of hundreds and hundreds of pages which drops. this executive summaries about 150 or hundred and 60 pages. one of the things that we are going to find out in one of the names that we are going to hear is the trump aide or former trump aide who basically suggested the cassidy hutchinson white house aide who looks used to work with mark meadows, that she not cooperate. nice and warm you got here, she muscling happen, to a kind of thing. and we'll see that. >> i just want to say, big, picture we are going to be reading these transcripts and going through this evidence. i would, say for months. the committee is going to release the interview. thousands of witnesses

though they had planned for hutchinson to appear as a witness at a later hearing along with sarah matthewsny could not wait, that they couldn't risk it leaking, and that hutchinson's safety was at issue. the hearing was scheduled for that same afternoon in three hours. we had heard rumors that this might have been the case i remember when this was scheduled, a lot of people had started to scatter it was the beginning of summer you really nail down a lot of the atmospherics around cassidy hutchinson's testimony explain some of that reporting to us. >> right i remember that was a surprise hearing. i remember i was in florida and flew back for it, because it was called on short notice what i didn't know at the time was the other members of the committee outside of cheney and thompson hadn't been told what this meeting was about either. they were just told they need to get back on a plane and fly back to washington. so they're brought into the scif, secure room. and theyn they start laying out what cassidy hutchinson had said during her -- i believe it was her fourth interview at that point, w

quote, at one point in the conversation, former trump white house deputy press secretary sarah matthewsed that the committee was unlikely to gain the cooperation of mark meadows. then she said, the person you should really talk to is cassidy hutchinson she was his shadow hutchinson's first deposition on february 23rd ran long and she agreed to answer the remaining questions a day or two later hutchinson received a phone call from someone she knew. a caller named ben williamson said somebody had something to tell hutchinson. as the transcript would read, mark told me, you have your deposition tomorrow, mark wants me to let you know that he knows you're loyal and he knows you'll do the right thing tomorrow and that you're going to protect him and the boss you continue, after the meeting, goldstein was called at his home there's going to be a hearing next tuesday, he was informed. adding that the matter was sensitive and should be confined to a very small production team. so this feels like a very key moment here. hutchinson's testimony, perhaps the most stunning, the most headline-grabbin

pretty remarkable story that i learned of from -- i interviewed for the circus, i interviewed sarah matthewsember was the deputy white house press secretary that was at the white house on january 6th and testified before the committee. and i asked her, i said, you know, how did this happen, who reached out to you initially to ask you to come in and testify assuming that it was a staff person, and she said, a mutual friend, someone that she knows, that she trusts that liz cheney knows reached out to her. smart move, and her first meeting was not with staff. she had no interaction with staff. she had a two-hour one-on one meeting that liz cheney convinced her she should testify. we learned a similar story about cassidy hutchinson, telling the same story that liz cheney got in touch with her. what i wonder about is who else did liz cheney meet with. probably wasn't just those two women. there were probably people liz cheney met with who weren't willing to do it. that's an example of how much of herself she put into this. mark leibovich has that book, thank you for your servitude about republica

sarah thangam matthews. for all this could be different. published by viking books. penguin.ndom and alejandro rose varela for the town. babylon. published. astra house of astra publishing. house. this year's national book award for fiction goes to tess gunty for the rabbit hutch. i was so that there was no way this could happen. i did not prepare a speech. but the one thing i did do was read my fellow short listings and i first want to thank them for putting their work out into the world. i've been thinking a lot about sharon, old said yesterday about how we've been preparing to put forth action for the good. and that's why we have to be afraid and. when i think about everyone else, this list, that's what each of those books accomplished. as different as may be, they attended to those who are structurally neglected. and the humanized experience is that are not visible normally. so i want to thank them for putting their books into the world and everyone helped them do that. i also want to thank my team, my agent duvall who was here from the beginning. for her brilliance and h