back then we took a great interest in the new chief there, scott thompson. he and i spent hours together talking and riding and meeting people as he made the switch to community policing and de-escalation. during one ride through the city, he told me if police can build relationships with the people they protect, quote, anything is possible. for more, we're so happy to welcome to the broadcast scott thompson, former police chief for camden county, new jersey, where we add police headquarters now bears his name. chief, it's great to see you. as you know, as a jersey guy, i've always viewed camden and its history with a mix of pride and sadness just like everybody, i think. riding around with you, i remember the corner store. i remember the parish priest. i remember the young single mom and her son. all were stops on your route. so cast modesty aside. tell our audience how bad was it when you got there, and what were the improvements by the time you left? >> well, brian, when you were with us in 2012, it was arguably the darkest hour in the history of the city

now, nbc white house correspondent and 12krist welker, pbs news hour's yamiche alcindor, and scott thompson, former police chief for new jersey's camden county. kristen, first to you. this is a stunning admission from general milley, who is a strong adviser, a very close adviser to the president, to do this. was the white house given any kind of heads up and what is their reaction to his apology today? >> we're trying to get answers to all of those questions, andrea. you are right, it was a remarkable thing to hear the chairman of the joint chiefs say that it was a mistake to be there in front of st. john's church last week. administration officials, white house officials have not responded yet and won't say if the president or any top officials here were given a heads up before that happened. but putting this into a broader context, this is not the first military official to break with president trump in terms of his decision to go to st. john's church and hold up that bible. the defense secretary, mark esper, also, a day later, saying that he wasn't sure where they were going, so basicall

joining me now is former camden police chief scott thompson. scott, thank you very much for joining us. how did it work? >> so, in 2012, every member of the camden city police department including myself was fired. i was a police chief pore 20 years, i had been a police officer for 20 years, police chief for five. myself and everyone else had to fill out a 50-page application, take a psychological, take a mental -- the physical conditioning, interview, the whole nine yards. we were all new employees. the opportunity that that really provided for us was the ability to build culture as opposed to changing it. so in the previous organization, we had very high levels of mistrust with the community. we were in a public safety crisis, our crime rates were greater than that of third world countries. and we had a labor organization that every time we tried to institute a change for the positive, it would be litigated, stalled, and if it didn't have a pay raise attached to it for the cops, then it essentially could not come to fruition. so all of this ca

. >> reporter: scott thompson knows how much work is needed to make changes. he served as police chief of camden, new jersey from 2008 to 2019. >> the overwhelming majority of the men and women who choose policing as a profession do so for al truistic reasons. i don't fault the police officers as much as i do the systems in which they operate. >> reporter: camden, once labeled the most dangerous city in america. grappled with high crime and poverty for generations. the majority of black and brown. >> it wasn't until w took a different approach to things until we started to change the trajectory of the city. >> reporter: in 2012 with a strapped budget and spiking murder rates, the state decided to disband the police department. the next year, the county rebuilt a new police department and re-imagined public safety. thompson was there for all of it. >> there would be three bedrock principles of which we would construct this organization. the first was that there would be an identity of guardianship over warriors. the second was that we would engage in extraordin

they had the good fortune to choose my friend scott thompson as the chief. good person.y he understood what you need to do is not enforce your way out of difficult situations, but build the community. we worked on a number of things, a youth program in schools, we had body cameras, we were one of the first jurisdictions that set policy. we didt important thing was help establish a use of force policy. this is the model that the world needs to take away. that policy was signed off on by both the aclu of new jersey and the fraternal order of police. there was consensus around what the use of force should look like. if you haven't consensus, it's easier to train to it and hold people accountable. countryace in the doesn't need to abolish the police force to get there. when i argue is we need new dispatch,esponse, instead of sending people to all of these problems, we need to expand our horizons and think about it. we are starting to see this around the country with responses with other agencies. we can create a new first responder who goes to several years of t

scott thompson himself, the former chief, said he would trade 10 officers for another boys and girls club. there is still that sense that we could be doing more to protect our public safety that would not involve law enforcement presence. i hope that distinction make sense. host: what do you think about and what the minneapolis city council is trying to do with ending what they call their policing system? guest: i think it is an ambitious and visionary approach. i'm always worried when people take steps like that in the midst of a crisis, because i think there's a tendency to be reactive and do things before they are thought through. on the other hand, if they recognize this will take a lot of work and is not going to probably look exactly like anyone wanted to look, they can probably do a lot of good and create a system that keeps people safer and that shifts a lot of resources to the kinds of social services and programs that can prevent violence and harm we are trying to prevent. host: let's let our viewers and social media followers join the conversation. i will start with a twee

maybe they need to do like camden, new jersey did with scott thompson where they disbanded in a thoughtful way, the police department. started a new county police department and they got to choose the best of the officers that were already there before and get rid of some of the deadweight that actually hurt the good cause of policing and hurt good police officers because they really not worthy of wearing the uniform. there's way to do those things but to do it just from the hip would be disasterous for any city. >> the houston police chief, thank you so much for joining us. always good to have you here in "the situation room." >> thank you. be safe. >>> just ahead, we'll have more on the fired officer charged with murder in george floyd's death. did we get any clues today about his defense as he appeared in court for the first time? what do i need from a partner right now? an insightful outlook that comes from experience navigating multiple bear markets. can i find a partner to help guide me through this uncertainty? with capital group, i can. talk to your financial professional or consul

. >> scott thompson is the recently retired police chief.isbanded city police force meant no more police union and the ability to make new work directives. the union is now back but the work directives and new traditions remain innovative like this. serving barbecue or ice cream is a regular feature of the community oriented policing that is done in camden. >> give me a high five, man. >> with the nearly 400 cops in a city of 77,000, are expected to walk the streets and personally get to know those they are policing. crime is still a problem here, but violent crime is way down since a high point in 2012 when the city police department was disbanded. homicides down by about 63% as of last year and the department says excessive force complaints against police are down 95%, all amid this directive. >> you will use force as an absolute last resort and you will de-escalate. there must be an attempt to de-escalate a situation prior to using force. >> this video from a few years back shows an example of that policy. a man flailing a knife inside a

i was listening to anderson cooper with chief scott thompson in camden, who was one of the pioneers in 2015, forcing a national conversation around what police departments were doing using force, not de-escalating, approaching scenes with a warrior mentality. the problem is, i think that we have to admit this, this is what's going to make this different. police reform alone, and all of the efforts that have been engaged, and i'm putting aside the trump administration's total abdication of this work, i think there's 18,000 police departments in this country. policing is inherently local. there are things that the federal government can do to support and push, and the justice department has a big role and it has not been acting to use that role at this time. what i think is really different about this moment is when i was in the protests in washington, d.c., on saturday. legions of people in the street, multiracial, all exclaiming black lives matter, that's a different cultural experience than what we were experiencing in 2015 when that phrase alone was considered controversial. and you

. >> reporter: scott thompson is the recently-retired police chief.is disbanded police force meant no more police union and the ability to make work directives. the union is now back, but the work directives remain innovative. serving barbecue or ice cream is a regular feature of the community-oriented policing done here in camden. >> can i get a high-five? >> reporter: with the nearly 400 cops in the city of roughly 77,000 are expected to walk the streets and personally get to know those they are policing. crime is still a problem here, but violent crime is way down since a high point in 2012 when the city police department was disbanded. homicide's down by about 63% as of last year. and the department says excessive force complaints against police are down 95%. all amid this directive. >> you will use force as an absolute last resort and i will deescalate. there must be an attempt to deescalate a situation prior to using force. >> reporter: this video shows an example of that policy. a man flailing a knife inside a store. he continued doing so outsi

. >> scott thompson is the recently retired police chief. his disbanded city police force meant no more police union and the ability to make new work directives. the union is now back, but the work directives and new traditions remain innovative, like this. serving bbq or ice cream as a regular feature of the community-oriented policing that is done here in camden. with the nearly 400 cops in the city of roughly 770,000 are expected to walk the streets and personally get to know those they are policing. crime is still a problem here, but violent crime is way down since a high point in 2012 when the city police department was disbanded. homicide is down by 63% by last year. the department says excessive force complaints against police are down 95%, all amid this directive. >> you will use force as an absolute last resort. and you will de-escalate, there must be an attempt to de-escalate a situation prior to using force. >> this video from a few years back, shows an example of that policy, a man flailing a knife inside a store. he continued do

. >> reporter: scott thompson is the recently retired police chief. meant no more police union and ability to make new work directives. the union is back but the work directives and new traditions remain innovative, like this. serving barbecue or ice cream as a regular feature of the community-oriented policing done here in camden. >> jeremiah, a high five? >> reporter: with the nearly 400 cops in this city of roughly 77,000, they're expected to walk the streets and virtually get to know who they're policing. crime is still a problem but violent crime down in 2012 when the police force was disbanded. homicides down 63% as of last year and excessive force complaints against police down 95%. all amid this directive. >> you will use force as an absolute last resort, and you will de-escalate. there must be an attempt to de-escalate a situation prior to using force. >> reporter: this video from a few years back shows an example of that policy. a man flailing a knife inside a store. he continues doing so outside. >> drop the knife! >> reporter: it's a dange

new department, a county department that would incorporate community policing led by the chief scott thompsoning. our police officers are trained in de-escalation. they're trained in community relations. and the day they hit the streets, the first day they hit the streets of camden, they go door to door, introduce themselves to residents, give residents their cards, and say, hey, if you have a problem, give me a call. so it's about building trust in the residents of the city. and that's something we have been working on for seven years quite successfully. your residents have to trust your police department, and your police department has to be completely unbiased as it does its job day to day. >> so ten years ago camden was regularly described as one of the most violent cities in the entire country. the crime rate since then has dropped by almost half. why? what's responsible for the drop in the crime rate? >> well, a couple of things. number one, i think the relationship between our residents and our police department is very good. it's a true partnership in preventing and fighting crime. an

. >> and the former police chief of -- former chief of police in camden, new jersey, scott thompson, new approach to policing now after centuries or decades at least of issues between police and the black community, he told the news outlet 538, quote, there is this failed mindset, if we show force we will deter criminal activity, and show me where that's worked. do you agree with him, the idea that meeting a protest, even one that's potentially violent or has some violent elements in it, meeting that with force, more often than not, escalates the violence as opposed to lowering the temperature? >> if i'm understanding your question correctly, you're asking if officers show force at the beginning, does that escalate the encounter, the potential of violence in protests. i would say absolutely, because once you're up here, there's not much room, right, to go. it's harder to de-escalate when you have to be very skilled at deescalation, and we see a lack of that in cases around the country even though there's been a real effort to improve that training for officers. so what we see in thos

. >> reporter: scott thompson is the recently retired police chief. his disbanded city police force meant no more police union, and the ability it make new work directives. the union is now back. but the work directives, new traditions, remain innovative, like this. serving barbecue, ice cream as a regular feature of the community oriented policing that is done here in camden. >> high five, man. >> reporter: with the nearly 400 cops in the city of roughly 77,000 are expected to walk the streets and personally get to know those they are policing. >> future recruit right there. >> reporter: crime still is a problem here, but violent crime is way down since the high point of 2012 when the city police department was disbanded. homicides down by 63% as of last year. and the department says excessive force complaints against police are down 95%. all amid this directive. >> you will use force as an absolute last row soesort and y will de-escalate. there must be an attempt to de-escalate a situation prior to using force. >> reporter: this video from a few yea

they had the good fortune to choose my friend scott thompson as the chief.person.y he understood what you need to do is not enforce your way out of difficult situations, but build the community. we worked on a number of things, a youth program in schools, we had body cameras, we were one of the first jurisdictions that set policy. we didt important thing was help establish a use of force policy. this is the model that the world needs to take away. that policy was signed off on by both the aclu of new jersey and the fraternal order of police. there was consensus around what the use of force should look like. if you haven't consensus, it's easier to train to it and hold people accountable. countryace in the doesn't need to abolish the police force to get there. when i argue is we need new dispatch,esponse, instead of sending people to all of these problems, we need to expand our horizons and think about it. we are starting to see this around the country with responses with other agencies. we can create a new first responder who goes to several years of trainin

thompson, the nominee to the inspector general for the cia. later senators debate the police reform bill offered by senate republicans led by south carolina senator tim scott. >> next to conversation with police reform hosted by georgetown university pre-participants talk about what abolishingic

protesters this afternoon for peaceful march in oakland lawyer want to scott anderson led the walking in unity event. >>and william clay thompson was also at this march they all marched near lake merritt chanting say his name george floyd also saying her name brianna taylor you may recall taylor was the 26 year-old black woman a medical worker who was killed by police in kentucky in her home in march on analysts taken warrant. >>on the peninsula hundreds gathered outside san mateo city hall to voice their concerns over police brutality kron four's gayle ong was there. >>the crowd spanned blocks as hundreds got together outside san mateo city hall wednesday afternoon demonstrating against racism and police brutality in response to the death of george floyd it's enough we've had enough death senseless deaths in this country. >>trying to something that's been got going on since. >>reconstruction really many were face coverings and carried signs declaring black lives matter say their names and just calling for change i would like to see some some type of legislation passed mel something that you will not protect. though few police

there the back to steph curry and wife aisha there's klay thompson raising his hand damion lee was there and so is looney after the marsha scott anderson took to the megaphone to share his oakland tried. >>it's not our job to it's like i said it's our job to enlighten and educate those don't know if you're a certain way everybody then drops are the same way we are different people they don't have the luxury of going up in a city like open to diversity >>during members of our trade >>a lot of people around lake merritt need to see them all out there and again peaceful you can sell that and they had a lot of towels as you could see around because it was hot out there was yanez kind of thing i want to how many people in the crowd actually recognized because a rematch everybody i know so like i saw a clip of klay thompson more from the sign i saw people standing around paying no attention to the fact that klay thompson and i caught a profile. we'll have his face covered up a 100 honestly i think i saw the same thing and i thought you know whatever his leave him alone. i could i could clearly tell us stephon i shot him from his bac

thompson, the nominee to the inspector general for the cia. later senators debate the police reform bill offered by senate republicans led by south carolina senator tim scott. >> next to conversation with police reform hosted by georgetown university pre-participants talk about what abolishing police looks like to them in ways that idea can be implemented pre-they talked about the history of police brutality toward black and other minority communities. this runs one hour. >> this series called rethinking policing, activism and reform has examined efforts to reform the police as well as preparing the next generation for activism and healing, i invite you to explore these inspiring sessions on our website. but today our panel of legal experts will focus on police evolution, what it means, what it does not mean and what public safety can look like without policing as we know it today. our aim with this series is to educate and empower those in pursuit of meaningful change. both in the wake of george floyd's death in the midst of a larger legacy of racial injustice in this country. i want to thank you all again for joining and i want to thank chris henning for

soledad: scott thompson is a former police chief in camden, new jersey. nice to talk to you, sir.arilyn mosby is baltimore city state attorney. it's so nice to have you with us. we mentioned in your introduction the freddie gray case. what differences and what similarities do you see between that case and also what's unfolding in minneapolis right now? marilyn: the difference, i think, between then and now is that you have a level of the veil of ignorance has been lifted from americans when it comes to the engagement with police and black people in this country. and so i think that i'mnghe civo expose, you know, the the racial intolerance. and so i'm encouraged. soledad: how do you see getting to police reform and then eventually into criminal justice reform? marilyn: it starts with accountability. that is first and foremost. we have tangible reforms that are in place where officers are now mandated to seatbelt all prisoners. officers are mandated to call a medic when requesting. there is an affirmative obligation for fellow officers to intervene when their fellow officers cross t

. >> reporter: former police chief scott thompson spent the last seven years trying to change that ine department over budget constraints, political disputes, and union contracts, it was an opportunity to start over. how do you as police chief then rebuild it from the ground up? >> we were coming off of what was statistically our most violent, deadliest year in the city we had 67 murders in 2012. every new recruit that came through the door were told you are going to identify yourself more with being a member of the peace corps than you will be a special forces member of the military >> reporter: the hope was to restore the public's trust in law enforcement or in some cases build trust where there never had been any a shift to community policing. >> when our recruits graduate the academy, they're immediateld introduced to the community. >> don't look to make your arrest as the first tool you're pulling out of your tool box >> reporter: at the time there were streets over run by drug deals. people were afraid to come outside. >> what we did which has given us sustainability and momentu