i also doubt his future as speakership pretty seriously. but look, ed, the main thing here, let's not lose focus. the main thing is what the republican harty has just done to the country. these people aren't legislators. they're vandals. this is really outrageous. barack obama moved and moved and moved, you chronicled his steps very well at the top of the show, the changes he made in his approach, the steps he took to go meet boehner halfway, at least halfway. his balance of tax revenues and spending cuts. boehner also, to his mild credit, at the end of last week, boehner also moved a little bit. but then after he moved obviously his caucus came to him and said no, buddy, no way, we're not going to sit for this. and then he tried this gambit, this plan b gambit. and they said no even to that. they're not legislating. they don't care about the country. they don't care about what happens to the economy. they care only about naked political power and being primaried from their right in their congressional districts. those are the only two thin

as i said, cantor -- throughout john boehner's speakership and cantor's majority leadership, cantor's been really trying to wrest the power of the caucus away from john boehner. in the last few weeks it's been all lovey-dovey between them. i don't know. i think cantor's going to have a hard time restraining his ambition because this is a very bad blow to the speaker. if you can't deliver your caucus and you publicly fall on your face like that, it makes everybody in your party look bad. the tea party people know that. this is a problem for john boehner. >> well, they're going home tonight without a deal. they'll come back after christmas. what's the next best play for the president, do you think, governor? >> i think the president -- unlike me, the president really does want a deal. i'd like to make a bigger down payment. i think we're not going to raise the revenue or cut the defense to the degree we need to without the fiscal cliff. this was a bipartisan deal made between democrats and republicans a year and a half ago and i think we ought to keep it because it would be better for t

, he's worried he may be losing out or being thrown out of the speakership by his own party? >> for sure. he spent the first two years of his speakership looking over his shoulder as the camera shows of eric cantor right behind him ready -- >> but cantor is with him now, isn't he? hasn't his number two guy joined him? >> he's his number two guy and supporter, but he's the spiritual leader of the tea party caucus there, and that's the group that seems to be calling the shots right now in the house of representatives. >> let's talk about the republican party. let's try to be really analytical here. you know, to me two things happen in every election. one, somebody wins, somebody loses, and then there's the other part of every election, a signal is sent, which way the country wants to go. it's a verdict that goes out to the people who got re-elected. careful, buddy, careful, lady, you could be next. isn't there a sense in the republican party that obama won a comfortable re-election? >> yeah but -- >> yeah but. >> that was boehner's mistake. >> he thought that was reality. >> he

. >> reporter: well, you know, the speakership isn't what it used to be. >> apparently not. >> reporter: i was talking to a veteran member of congress up here, a republican, and we were talking a little bit about the leverage that a speaker might have. you know, it used to be way back in the day, all the way back in the sam rayburn day, when a speaker wanted to talk to an appropriations chair, the appropriations chair didn't go to the speaker's suite. the speaker went to the appropriations chair suite. a man was offered the chairman of the appropriations committee, he passed it over. patrick leahy. another man was offered it, tom harkin. he passed it over. they don't have the leverage. they don't have the swag they used to have here largely because or -- not necessarily largely or principally but to a certain degree because this place is cleaned up somewhat. there are no more earmarks, not $20 billion of earmarks. you can't say i'm going to take that bridge away unless you vote for this project. we saw jayne baohn boehner play hardball yanking them off the 5678d committees, but evidentl

if it costs him his speakership at some point my guess is so be it. >> chris: really?g. >> it's not his preferred course but he has been in washington a long time. he sees how real the problem is. >> chris: fox news has a new poll out. interesting results. put them up on the screenm when people are asked what is the best way to deal with the deficit, 69% say not surprisingly raise taxes on the wealthy. that doesn't affect them. 65% say cut government workers. 56% call for changes to social security. 51% raise the eligibility age for medicare. a lot of support for the tough measures here. and when it comes to entitlement reforms 46% favor major cuts even if it will hurt. be tough on people. including 59% of republicans while 40% say keep the funding and just pass debt to the children including 52% of democrats. charles? what does that tell you? >> you start by saying asking us every day for daily update on the cliff is like covering every day a tortoise 10k. you know, tortoise "a" advanced a neck length and the other is not a full shell. obama is running out the clock.

within a republican caucus to maintain that speakership. but on the first day of next congress, you have a vote. and the person who gives the speaker has to get a majority. so, he can only lose 17 members before they have a leadership crisis and nancy pelosi starts looking like she has the most votes. she's not going to be speaker, but this reduces some of boehner's flexibility. what we're seeing in this vote, this is a show me vote. this is breaking the seal for a lot of members to vote on a bill that has a tax increase, maybe not, kind of, at the million dollar level, but in the future, when you lower it to 400,000, it's about the same thing. >> ed, where's the line drawn in the sand? do you think it's this tax issue that i think has become an olive -- excuse me, a branch that's very difficult for president obama to come in off of? >> it depends on who you talk to. for democrats, it is entitlements. they don't want to make some of these changes because they won the election and they're being asked to kind of change things that were not in

both striking a deal or failing to do so could cost him his speakership, but in the eyes of the american people, will he find a way to preserve consumer confidence and tax cuts for 98% of america or will he end up becoming the unseasonably tanned grinch who stole christmas? joining us on that note from capitol hill is nbc's luke russert. luke, you know, boehner is in sort of a no-win situation, right? if he cuts a deal, then the justin amash's of the world who politico put in the category of something that rhymes with bass coal, and if he doesn't cut i a deal, then the american people hate him and blame him for the tacks going up. what can boehner do? >> i think that a lot of that consternation on the right is going towards john boehner is a little bit overplayed. surely, there are folks who are angry at him, but his speakership is not in any serious jeopardy at this time. what i find interesting here, though, joy, especially coming out of the press conference with speaker boehner just now, is he neglected to answer head on questions about whether or not he would allow a bill that would

the number he's most interested in is the number of votes he has to maintain his speakership. i don't think he gives a hoot about the rest and that he would be willing to make any kind of deal that would keep him with the speakership. the truth is, though, the american people are with us. they are for raising taxes over $250,000. they want to protect their social security, their medicare, their medicaid. we have agreed to $1.6 trillion in cuts. >> so right now, it sounds like it's the president's deal or nothing as far as democrats are concerned, because boehner has not been specific. is that a fair characterization? >> i think that's absolutely right. the president has been very firm, he's gone out to the american people who nod their head in unanimous agreement. and so i think that we just need to stick with our president and if we go to january 1, we're in even better shape. >> congresswoman jan schakowsky, we should also point out in the house races across the country, 1,165,000 people voted for democrats more than republicans. so i don't think boehner has any mandate for

. >> last week i asked you if you were concerned about using your speakership.u're not concerned, shouldn't you be? >> no, i'm not. and while we may have not been able to get the votes last night to avert 99.81% of the tax increases, i don't think -- they were not taking that out on me. they're dealing with the perception that somebody might could -- accuse them. >> you have great sources in washington, could you please tell us what president obama said to john boehner during their phone call? >> i wish i knew, i don't have that good of sources, but i mean look, we're at a place now where it is very, very conceivably that we'll get to january one with nothing done. for a while i assumed this was noise and theater, and each side needed to demonstrate to their respective bases that they were getting what they needed to get. at this point i'm a lot more skeptical about that, and the people i talked to, that is a reported problem, they're worried about it getting done, as well. >> sam, i thought it was all noise, and bluster, as well. and it is done, as you say to t

we told you earlier, the vote that did not happen, may have put john boehner speakership in jeopardy.veryone thinks this means the end of the line for him. chief political correspondent carl cap ron explains for us. >> the morning after failing to convince the party to support the fiscal cliff, john boehner said he is not worried that the setback could cost him his speakership. >> no, i'm not. >> while we have not been able to get vote to avert the tax increases, you don't think they weren't getting that on me. they were dealing with the perception that somebody might accuse them of raising taxes. >> republican candidate campaign against raising any income tax rates this year. so when two to four dozen fiscal conservatives held the line to say they would oppose the plan on rate hike last night, boehner knew it would be depeteed. >> victory for conservative principles because the leadership strayed from the principles. the proposal over the weekend that the speaker offered was $1 trillion tax increase. perhaps a year long extension of the raising of the debt ceiling. those are things t

there has been a lot of speculation that he might have to leaveve the speakership. but ththere is no one to replace keken. >> who is going to cave? what group ofepublicans are going to disassociate with them and join with the democrats -- >> the question is noonger who is going to cave, but what pressures are necesessary. >> alan blinder from princeton -- >> and a very good democrat. >>e made the point that he does not see the situation changing that much once we go over the cliff because w already know what the stakes are. the bibig questions whether how the market will react and whetheher we will get that reaction. >> as an economist, i cannot let that go by bending. i am quite certain -- >> i have no personal animosity towards the president, but do not think there is any confident a economist who would tell him other than the really right wing guys that subtracting $600 billion from aggregate demand overnight a $500 billion tax increase and a hundrdred billion dollars becaususe of the budget act wod not thrust ththe economy into recessionon. if he really believes

it doesn't take much for him to possibly lose the speakership. as majority of the house of representatives to remain speaker and with j jackson dropping out, there are 434 people in the house and he needs 217 votes so he only has to lose 17 people from the republican caucus assuming zero democrats to not have a majority. but is there an alternative who can get the majority? i am not so sure. >>neil: it doesn't look that good. all right, if you just tuned in we will hear from the president in 35 michigans and he will address the country briefly on the state of this fiscal cliff situation and you could take questions from the press but the republican congressman from florida, allen west, will be leaving the circus soon. will a lame duck session be able to resolve it? >>guest: i don't know because we need to have people to come together on a concepts us and decide they want to have policy that will stimulate economic group and get away from the politics and the bad thoughts and bad ideas. i would like to look at the president and ask him, what is yo

john boehner seems to care more about keeping his speakership than keeping the nation on footing. >> john boehner's office fired back -- senator reid should talk less and legislate more. the house has already passed legislation to avoid the entire fiscal cliff. >>> the president gets set to land in washington this hour. there's new word that the president has called all four congressional leaders. reid, mcconnell, boehner and pelosi. . joining me to talk more, we have peter alexander standing by at the white house as well as nbc's mike viqueira on capitol hill. some verbal smackdown, basically flipping the lights back on and harry reid taking to the floor to eviscerate speaker boehner. >> the sad part is you often seen the floor opened that way. mitch mcconnell being later today. i'm sure we'll hear something later. to hear it two days after christmas and a matter of days before we go through the fiscal cliff, obviously not encouraging. harry reid says time is running hout. he doesn't know if they could go through the legislative hurdles. if they have the votes around here, they can

john boehner kind of got together and nancy pelosi told boehner he could bring the votes for his speakership and then maybe together could isolate the tea party section of his group and take away some of the radical left of her group and bring the moderates together, support him for speakership. me, being a democrat, i would not get everything i want, but the republicans would get everything they wanted. by the time re-election came up they would have seen there was a lot of progress made and maybe they could not run primaries on those guys that decided to run to the middle with policy they laid out together. host: thank you for the call. guest: so many things. basically, you are assuming that john boehner would be elected speaker in a democratic house. it is not likely that they would give him their votes. it is far more likely, quite honestly, that the democrats would like to see continued disruption on the republican side. either way there would be a much-weakened speaker or he would be deposed. host: this president haas tried to give him some cover and boehner's party made him look fooli

but i don't think those 50 who are opposing him like on plan b are ready upend his speakership.ink they can get 17 people to vote against him for speaker, particularly when they know the kind of kay yoos it would create in the republican conference. i doubt it. i think speaker boehner, the real question is, is he willing to run any risk? will he put a deal up for a vote in which it takes a majority of democrats to pass? that's the real question. even if he can retain his spe speakersh speakership, does rereally want to govern in a way where he needs democrats to do it? i think that's the long-term serious question. it would make him better but at the end of the day it's his decision to make in terms of whether it's him keeps his job or a firm grip on his job, or putting americans back to work. that's the choice he has to make. >> congressman, this is fergus cullen. to what expect does the fact that the majority of members of congress in both parties come from safe districts driving this trouble to reach a compromise on issues like this? >> that's a good question. i think convent

you might think his speakership might be in danger given how he has performed in the job. but as of yet, no named other republican is challenging him for the job. maybe that's because whoever is holding the job, the job is doomed to failure. today president obama met with senator harry reid. he gave a statement saying he expected republicans to come back after christmas before the end of the year to try again. mr. boehner gave his own statement saying maybe something could break the rules a little bit and start in the senate to fix the problem instead of starting with his side in the house. if that happens and they can put something together on the senate side that can pass the senate, and that can earn all of nancy pelosi's 193 democrats in the house, they would need, then, 25 republicans to defect and vote with all the democrats to save the country. to save us at least from a self-inflicted recession. they would need 25 republicans. among the republicans who did side with john boehner last night on one bill that he was able to pass before it all fell apart, among the rep

the other thing i think is a subplot in this, look at this how it relates to john boehner and his speakershipst week was very embarrassing. all it would take would be 28 conservative republicans to speak up and vote for somebody else which would not deprive him of the speakership but would essentially be a protest vote and make him go to a second ballot. also mitch mcconnell doesn't want his fingerprints on this because he doesn't want to be primaried. so you have these sort of -- shall we say, the lack of courage or ziesh to move on this from mcconnell and boehner, it's directly tied to prospects to serve in current jobs. it's a fascinating subplot. >> i want to pick up on that on something jared was starting to say. some degree we're playing a bit of a game of semantics here. because there's some calculation that the republicans say we go over the cliff and then technically we can be seen as not voting to increase taxes, but we can be seen as voting for cutting taxes once the sort of -- we go over the cliff and we're on the other side of it. am i right about that? >> yeah. it's a very cynic

if he can put this off until he's firmly established the speakership for the next congress, and then does a deal, presumably he would be buying himself some more time. i guess. i'm trying to think what's forcing this man to do this but you heard the congresswoman bass say if you would bring it up for a vote, anything, either the president's office or passed through the senate, bring it up for a vote and we might see some traction there. he's clearly afraid to get something passed in a bipartisan fashion. >> go ahead. >> i mean, look. the irony here is by virtue of doing nothing by january 1st and the democrats are not shrouded in glory. i don't think reid's comments are helpful but by doing nothing, they do something and literally more than they've been able to do for the past four years which is a draconian and effective revenue enhancer and spending decreaser. i don't think this is the way to go about our long-term fiscal health. >> yeah. >> but weirdly enough, their inactivity leads to more constructive moving of the needle in the bigger picture than any else. >> can i jump in? th

>> no, he's not going to be challenged for the speakership. he didn't bring it to the floor. he decided not to bring it to the floor. but he could have brought it to the floor if they had even 30 democrats willing to say i'll do what nancy pelosi said we should do. and that plan "b" would have passed. it would have demonstrated we were willing to put revenue on the table and got the wheels greased a little bit for a negotiation. >> john harwood tweeted this. he said gop house members and colleagues, i blame most of this on a block of about 50 members who have the political judgment god gave a goose. do you think the far right of your party is a big part of the problem in washington right now? >> i think the extremes on both sides are a big part of the problem right now. and i've got a lot of respect for the men and women who are representing voters in their district who are telling them this. but we have to look at a broader reason why we're having members of congress coming from the perimeters. we can talk about gerrymandering of districts and the whole political process tha

a lot of people say his speakership is safe but that vote happens on thursday. you have seen things implode, leadership fights. it's a dangerous thing do. >> it could be blessed, though. >> right. >> they could agree in advance, his members, to let him do it potentially. >> right. >> even though they would vote against it. >> lots and lots of things that are going on many layers to this. can we remind viewers the negotiators are working this out, reid and mcconnell explaining it to their members they could if they get the deal and members agree and they could hold the vote later this evening. >> we'll monitor things. we have to take a quick break. on the other side "fareed zakaria gps." >> i remember saying to my husband oh, my goodness what will happen, there won't be any more u.s. government bonds because we'll be out of the debt situation. 've persevered, supporting some of the biggest ideas in modern history. so why should our anniversary matter to you? because for 200 years, we've been helping ideas move from ambition to achievement. and the next great idea

it hasn't always been that way and all he has to do and this could threaten his speakership or at leaste him run against somebody and not just gavelled in. let the bill pass,y free up 35 or so republicans and at least have the stop-gap measure passed by the end of the year because that's essentially what president obama was suggesting the stopgap. >> mark, one of those who was rejecting plan b and what speaker boehner was trying to do is consider republican tim hills' camp is the one who rebelled against speaker boehner. that's when he said on morning joe. let's listen to him first. >> i disagree with john boehner caving on taxes. and we'll give you $1 trillion in tax revenue and we'll raise it for a year and take a lever on the hand of the republicans and he did that without the support of the conference, as we found out. >> i'm interested in terms of what you're hearing the number of votes he came up short. he came up short 21 in a bill related to softening the sequester that was done right before the plan b vote when the plan b vote was supposed to happen here. >> the numbers i've he

. >> john boehner seems to care more about keeping his speakership than keeping the nation on firm financial footing. >> the only reason why democrats have been trying to defect -- deflect attention over the past few weeks is they did not have a plan of their own. >> the path for the rest in the hands of the senate. house republican leaders say they will take action on whatever bill can pass the chamber. if there is a breakthrough, the legislation will not pass until the 11th hour or because house members to not return here until sunday night. abc news washington. >> new word on a potential dockworkers' strike that could cripple the nation's economy. the mediator now says contract with the longshoremen on the east and gulf coast have been extended for 30 days. thousands of workers at the port of baltimore and 14 other ports from boston to houston were ready to go on strike sunday. those ports move about 40% of the nation's container cargo traffic. we enjoyed sunshine across the region, but the big story is tomorrow's potential snow. steve rudin is here to talk about that. >> we are watching

[video clip] >> the speakership all members of the house back to washington today. he should not give let them go. they are not here. they are not here. john boehner seems to care more about keeping his speakership than about keeping the nation on sound financial footing. it's obvious what's going on around here. he is waiting until january 3 to get reelected as speaker before we get serious with the negotiations, because he has so many people over there that will not follow what he wants. that's obvious from the debacle that took place last week's. host: referring to the vote oesterday on speaker b ehner's plan b. guest: they might feel they have better numbers in the house than they do now later. he would be able may be to push a plan through without as much republican support. i doubt it. it would be really risky move and then we are in early january without a deal still. host: that's what you wrote in the washington journal this morning -- the wall street journal. republicans participating in a conference call yesterday said -- guest: that's right. the republica

his speakership is secure. >> congressman, i want to ask you to stand by for one second. we want to take everyone to the national cathedral as the president begins to say goodbye to hawaiian senator daniel inouye. >> the man would probably be wondering what all the fuss is about. this tuesday was in many ways a day like any other, the sun rose, the sun set, and the great work of our democracy carried on, but in a fundamental sense it was different. it was the first day in many of our lives, certainly my own, that the l thats of the united states congress were not graced by the presence of daniel ken inouye. danny was elected to the u.s. senate when i was two years old. he had been elected to congress a couple years before i was born. he would remain my senator until i left hawaii for college. even though my mother and grandparents took great pride that they had voted for him, i confess that i wasn't paying much attention to the united states senate at the age of four or five or six. it wasn't until i was 11 years old that i recall even learning what a u.s. senator was or

the white house to address this. >> last week i asked you if you were concerned about losing your speakership and you said you were not. in light of what happened last night, if you're not concerned shouldn't you be? >> no. i am not. listen, you have all heard me say this, and i have told my colleagues this. if you do the right things every day for the right reasons, the right things will happen. while we may have not been able to get the votes last night, to avert 98.9% of the tax increase, i don't think they weren't taking that out on me. they were dealing with the perception that somebody might accuse them of raising taxes. merry christmas, everyone. thank you. >> speaker john boehner with the reality that they were not able to get his plan b even to a vote and they are going home for the holidays and there is no plan at least from what we seem to hear for any future conversations with the president. i want to bring in editor in chief of the national journal, reed wilson and political editor for the grio perry bacon. >> god only knows. he really does not seem to have a strategy going forwa

is speaker -- is john boehner's speakership at risk? >> we don't know. i would say that probably not. that what you often see is when you have moments like this the real conservatives like to gloat. but what you do see is a real problem in him being able to get together a coalition that can deal with this very large problem that's on the horizon, this big drop-off. we won't say the word you don't like. but here's one thing that i find very fascinating. i spoke to some members who are walking out of there. and they said, well, if this was really the last possible deal we could get, maybe we would have supported it. but they did not want to go along with this sort of kabuki theater, if you will, this sort of dancing around the issue. and they knew the senate was going to reject it. so that leads me to believe that there still is some faith in john boehner. but make no mistake. the question about whether or not he can retain his speakership will certainly be asked of a lot of his colleagues because this was deeply embarrassing. and the question now moving f

his speakership has been bad the whole way through. he's not been able to get much done.hould he have gone in for the kill? we are going back to my original deal, take it or leave it or help boehner save face here? >> he's put the speaker in an awkward position with the new bill that's going to come out in the senate. big if as to whether it could pass. is mitch mcconnell going to agree not to filibuster. is the speaker going to be able to bring it to the floor, which is viewed by his right wing as a complete sell out? because if he brings it to the floor, the democrats and the votes, 17, 20 you mentioned might be enough to pass it. that would be the end of his speakership. >> okay. >> so he's going to have to say no to bringing it to the floor. the president looks very good. i think the real story here is, if i were the president, i would not want to make a deal now. i think things get better for him as time goes on. >> at the same time -- >> it's a critical part of negotiations. if we don't make a deal, what will happen. what's likely to happen. >> at the same time, the

now, will he lose his speakership? it's something that we're sort of skeptical of because the only person we really think could possiblyover take john boehner is a paul ryan, and really he hasn't expressed interest. >> going on to say we have a republican party today willing to eliminate any prospect for decent future for anyone including itself. if it cannot abe future that is 100% in accordance with its core beliefs and principles that's not governing. that's lobbing hand grenades. if you are only stabbeding on principle to appear taller, then you appear smaller, and the gop is shrinking daily before our eyes. if leadership casting vision, calling all your people to rise up, and we just watched what happened with lan b and speaker boehner trying to call his people to rise up, and you say his leadership really not in question unless paul ryan really wants it. do you think that people having these types of perspectives, like a mark mckinnan, that doesn't really ring true coming into the new year for speaker boehner. >>

kind of deal, and works with nancy pelosi and works with the white house, that he could lose his speakership over. it but he has been moving in this last week, he has been removing recall trants from committee assignments. he has been exercising the powers that he should as a leader. >> president obama is not just sitting there. he has come forward asking to raise the debt ceiling. are you following that? >> yes. >> what do you think of that, and what do you think the congress thinks of that? >> well, it has to be raised. >> that's the power of the purse. >> the power of the purse is the power to spend. congress has already authorized and appropriated all of this money. now, it wants to come back in and prevent the government from paying the debts accrued by congress itself. so there is something absurd in congress coming in behind, and saying all of am money that we appropriated, we -- this money that we appropriated, we don't want to pay for it. we want to default on the national debt. >> if he has the power to raise the debt ceiling, the defacto power to do that, is that causing a mall-ba

john boehner seems to care more about keeping his speakership. >> reporter: the republican leader respondedmake no mistake, the only reason the democrats have been trying to deflect attention onto me and my colleagues is that they don't have a plan of their own. >> reporter: president obama returned to washington for a last-minute push before leaving vacation in hawaii, he had separate phone conversations with congressional leaders. but it's not clear the talks helped. house republican leaders say they'll take action on whatever bill the senate can pass. but the senate must act first. brandi and muhammad? >> thank you. oh, to be a fly on the wall today in that meeting when it all happens. >> we've been talking all week about this going down to the deadline. i mean, we are right at that deadline. this is going to be a photo finish. >> and if the house ends up adjourning, it usually takes 48 hours to be called back. so the timing is really key here. whatever happens today could be the deciding factor. >> a lot of it comes down to who is going to blink first. >> if either side each does. >>> a

i mean, in terms of -- david mentioned the speakership question. to what degree do you guys have a sense that there is any sort of currency to this threat from the aircraft ericksons of the world to oust him from the. >> i think it's noise. it's worth paying attention to. >> it's not that there will be another speaker who will run against him, cantor or anyone else, but if 20 tea party members of the house decide to vote present on january 3rd, he will not become speaker. he can be delayed. he can be embarrassed. a lot of things can happen without someone having to challenge him. you can vote for anyone for speaker. you can vote for dafy duck. >> david corn. >> alex wagner, mark, jim, or anyone. or present. he still has to have his caucus behind him to be fully behind him to become speaker. >> the dance continues, my friends. we have to take a break, but we are just getting some breaking news in now. the ap is reporting that michigan's house has ok'd the state's contentious right to work bill. we will have more on that next on "now." music is a uni

but at the same time i think boehner is pretty safe when it comes to his speakership.re making noise against the speaker, there would be huge trouble. i think boehner's pretty safe because there's not a challenger. >> sam, if boehner's safe in his job, it doesn't mean to say he's at all relevant here. he's just not a factor at this point, is that right? >> i think it's right but it's because boehner expressed he couldn't get his plan throw the court. i can only imagine how angry mcconnell and his staff are because they put him in a bind. all the while mitch mcconnell's got an eye on 2014 when he's up for re-election but the house speaker has shown he's largely ineffectual when it comes to this stuff. but i see what he's saying. his deputies, eric cantor, mccarthy, were both there when plan b was introduced and failed to be introduced. so the logical successors weren't there. >> so paul ryan is the person who has the support of the house of speakers. those who don't like boehner, don't love boehner, they love paul ryan. he was whipping plan b. so paul ryan, probably the

, but he still got the rejectionist in the lame duck caucus and i'm afraid it might come at the speakership that he'll have to re-up for on january 3rd. he's still got to talk the tea party talk even though he knows it's a losing proposition. >> the fact of the matter here is let's talk politics. why is the political party hosting it put all its stock in 2%? >> well, you're dealing with reality. the reality -- >> yeah. >> no. the tea party caucus of the house went from 55 to 51 to 52. >> they're not rich people, these tea party people. >> it doesn't matter. they're against taxes because they think it fuels government and they're against government. they're against compromise -- they're particularly compromised with this particular president for a whole host of reasons. we have the same dynamic. we had back in 2011 when john boehner, i think, left to his own devices would cut a deal with the president in five minutes. >> let's stop for a second. i think they're darn serious. who knows what the world's going to react to this. we don't know. we don't know. forget the market. the world economy

they say that maybe he's more concerned about saving his speakership than he is, you know, for what's good of the country and the republican and the house of representatives. and boehner's aides don't trust the president either. they don't see him as an effective negotiator and they think he oversells his ability to be able to bring republicans and bring democrat at long. >> rose: al better wa, do you think? >> i think the country is out there sang, you know, why don't you clowns get your act together. this really is-- i think it just infuriates people to see business as usual with something that is this serious. and charlie, what justifies that position, i think is they aren't that far apart. now to be sure a lot of what they do now has to then be really implemented next year. but when you talk about the macro numbers at least, they're talking about a package now, a little over $2 trillion. they've already done a little over one last year. about half-and-half and on spending, they're abt 50 billion art,ver 10 years. over 10 years. and on revenues they're about 200 billion apart. that