>> ted nelson in 1960.

that's where it all started. >> rose: who prepared it. >> ted nelson in 1960. before packet switching work which is the technology that runs the internet. the very first origin idea, yes. >> rose: this is all very exciting. >> well. >> rose: -- where it's normal to find success. >> yes. i think a lot of folks these days are making the mistakes of believing that personal wealth or you know riches mean anything absent a society around, you know. like you can only, the only way that your wealth can mean anything is if you're part of a functioning society in which there's a lovely civil society people to buy your products, things for you to spend money on. if we try to enrich ourselves or concentrate so much the whole thing is falling apart in a huge slum which is happening in my view. even our own wealth is not real at the end of that process. >> rose: what do we have to do to pull out of that? >> well, what i'm interested in is finding moments when we connect periment with alter nut models. let me give you an example of what i mean. recently a technology's become

>> ted nelson in 1960. the technology that runs the internet. the very first origin idea. >> this is all very exciting. know.my daughter will it will be a world where this is normal. >> a lot of folks these days are making the mistake of believing that personal wealth and riches mean anything. way that your wealth can mean anything if you are part of a functioning society in a civil society where there are people to i your products. if we enrich ourselves and concentrate so much that the whole thing is falling apart, which is happening in my view, our own wealth is no longer real. >> what we have to do? findinginterested in moments where we can experience of alternate models. let me give you an example. recently technology has become popular for hobbyists and it is starting to the mainstream. 3-d printing. that's right, right. >> they are simple these days. they are getting better and better. someday you will be able to print out your new computer. >> or you're gone. -- your gun. >> the way this has been propagated is on the latex model. -- linu