>> the fec is in this because there were some fec staff that reached out to the irs in 2008 regarding conservative groups and as you know the irs has already come under fire for targeting conservative groups. this was made public somewhat recently by folks in the house of representatives. >> what business does the fec have going to the irs for information? was this public or private information? >> originally an fec investigator reached out to the irs directly to lois lerner, the person who has come under most fire at irs asking for more information about a group called the american future fund and the request was for information generally, and the irs cannot provide general information. eventually the irs did provide some public information. what is interesting is, first of all, why would an fec investigator be reaching out to the irs without commission approval. the way the fec works -- >> you're on the commission. >> i'm vice chairman currently. the commission needs to approve any sort of investigations so first you have an investigator reaching out to the irs. second, if her askin

in a letter to the fec, he wrote that documents recently produced to the committee demonstrate that fecersonnel communicated with irs personnel about tax ex-exempt groups. it gets worse. lohse learner also happens to be a former fec employee. coincidence? i think not. here with reaction from the center of law and justice and steve murphy. before we get to the new information can we just get out of the way targeting american citizens or groups because of their political views is not a phony scandal? could we just get that on the table from you? >> well, if that's what happened, sure. if the fec knows about tax exempt money being used on behalf of partisan candidates, they should tell the irs that because it's not legal. >> is that why lois lerner pleaded the fifth? >> there's only one problem with that. that's against the law. >> steve, let him talk. >> go ahead. >> it's not a citizen. it's two governmental agencies. there's specific provisions that prohibit it with groups like the fec. the fec is not exempt. it's not one of them. that's number one. >> so you're defending using tamt exem

>> correct. >> who tipped you off that the irs and the fec were talking about you? >> we wouldn't know about any of this if it wasn't for the investigation of the ways and means and oversight committee. >> is there anything wrong for the fec and irs to talk to each other? these are both government agencies. any problem with that? >> two things that are concerning. first, you had don mcgan on here, commissioner at the fec. the fec, if they are going to seek out in an investigatory way and talk to other agencies about pending investigations, they are supposed to seek approval from their commissioners. they didn't do that. the second thing is, if you look at the entire e-mail string, the last instance was in february of 2009, references conversations that took place between lois lerner and the individual at the fec. some of that was take place before we were an approved group. the question remains with lois lerner, what was she communicating with the fec about? unless she was communicating something that wasn't publicly available, why would the fec call. she doesn't div

. >> do you know why your name surfaced with the fec? >> the first add we ran was in march of 2008 and it mentioned senator norm coleman and senator amy cole bashar, both in a positive light and talked about how they worked together and worked well together. following that, the minnesota dfl, their equivalent to the democratic party, filed a complaint against us which then the irs began to investigate. >> what is your thought about this? you feel singled out and targeted? or do you think politics is a rough business and the irs is now beginning to check you out and the fed does too? >> i think it is very unfortunate. when you saw all the other tea party groups that initially got targeted, pro life groups, very small groups. the common thread was that most were conservative. they were so small. i couldn't really understand why would you mass target very small groups. people focused on their own community wanting to advocate for issues in their own community. i was shocked i didn't think we were targeted, because we have grown to be fairly

>> well, i think congress needs to continue doing oversight of the fec and the irs. e communication between fec and irs which is not in the ordinary course of the fec business. it seems odd. it seems odd that an investigator would reach out to lois lerner directly. asking for documents and hopefully they will do their job and we'll see where this takes us. >> mr. vice chairman, thank you, sir. >> thank you. >>> coming up, the truth behind the jobs numbers. find out why the white house was not high fiving with the july news and you'll hear from one frustrated job seeker. that's next. >>> what is with politicians tweeting pictures? we'll show you another one. you have to see this, coming up. [ male announcer ] these days, a small business can save by sharing. like carpools... polly wants to know if we can pick her up. yeah, we can make room. yeah. [ male announcer ] ...office space. yes, we're loving this communal seating. it's great. [ male announcer ] the best thing to share? a data plan. at&t mobile share for business. one bucket of data for everyone on the plan, unl

and the fec. tonight there is growing suspicion that the securities and ex change commission, the s.e.c., may also be targeting conservative groups. the house oversight committee demanding document thes from the s.e.c., too. ron desantos joins us. good evening, sir. >> good evening. >> i have seen the july 22 letter where you make a demand of the s.e.c., the honorable mary jo white, chairperson, to comply with documents by july 29. i take it that didn't happen. right? >> no. it hasn't happened yet. we do anticipate getting those documents because we are entitled to those documents. you had all these career people in the s.e.c. being asked to push this political speech angle. they were like, look. this is not what we do. go to the fec, go to congress. when activists weren't having success for that they were trying to go through the s.e.c. the s.e.c., mind you, were being tasked with implementing dodd frank which is thousands of pages. yet they were being pushed to put it aside and take up this issue

and then share that information with the fec. you know the irs has a lot of confidentiality requirements that bind it. and if it is sharing information about either individual taxpayers or about tax-exempt organization it is can't share them with other parts of the government except under very controlled circumstances. if you have the irs and the fec sort of openly sharing information that is another source of concern in this whole thing. bill: go back to the original point, by the way, issa wants all the documents going back to 2008. we'll see what they reveal in the end. when you put the dea story with the irs and the fec story with the irs, and the benghazi story that been picked up a little bit more by the mainstream media in recent weeks, what does that suggest overall about the theme from the administration that wants to declare all these scandals phony? >> well it suggests it just won't fly. you're right about benghazi. for months and months fox was kind of a lonely voice investigating what was going on in benghazi. now it

. >> it's not just the irs and the fec. there is agreeing suspicion that the securities and exchange commission may be targeting conservative groups. the committee is demanding do you means too. the committee member joins us. good evening, sir. >> good evening, greta. >> what's up? i have seen this letter where you make a demand of the fec, mary jo white to comply with do you means by july 29th. i take it that didn't happen, right? >> well, no. it hasn't happened yet. we do anticipate getting those documents because we are entitled to those documents. here's the thing. you had all these career people in the ftc who are being asked to push this political speech angle and they were like look, this is not what we do. go to congress. when activists were not having success for that,the f it, c, they were implementing dodd frank which is hundreds of payments and being pushed to put that aside and take up this issue of corporate political donations. it's very strange and we think it's part of a broader effort connected with the irs

but then i'm thinking can it would be even worse if the irs calls the fec you about to to hear about this one. either way it's scary, isn't it? >> either way it's very scary and the entire problem really does rest within the confines of the bureaucracy of the irs and it's absolutely wrong, absolutely illegal for them to share confidential tax information. neil: it's absolutely endorse bed the mainstream media. it's like the scandal that wasn't a scandal. it's like gone air. what do you think of that? >> well, if you listen to the white house, they say it's a phony scandal, and i like to tell people that ask me about that, i don't think anybody targeted by the irs feels that is a phony scandal or that's a phony situation. it's something you have to take very seriously and this is a very serious situation. >> neil: especially when, whether publicly available information or not, it's interagency talking to one another. then it gets to be a little bit more than curious, doesn't it? >> it almost looks like there's collusion between the federal election commission and the and the irs in thi

accounts for government-type business or communications with other individuals and agencies such as the fec or the s.e.c., it raises concerns about what she was really up to. >> first of all, would this be illegal what she's done? do you think she's been obstructing justice? if in fact she was using a personal account? is that legal? >> it's an odd law. the federal records act requires that all this information be gathered. but there's no explicit penalty. it's not a crime you can go to jail for for simply using that. so if you have a hard time putting her in jail for it. but it is the responsible of the irs and the secretary of the treasury to get this information, and so far they haven't been willing to get it and give it to us. >> let's talk about the relationship with the fec. didn't she once work for that agency? >> she did. and this is one of those interesting things about people who move around in government, and everywhere they go they seem to move an agenda. and she certainly seems like she has an agenda against conservatives. >> well, you're sort of being obscure here, congressman

what he is asking the fec is to do is turn over records with the irs.quote, the prospect of inappropriate coordination about tax-exempt entities. among the thing he's demanding is all communications between the irs and the if. ec dating back to 2008. i should underscore the republican fec commissioner i talked to, heunder scored that he is not sure that anyone nefarious or sinister was going on, but it should be investigated. and now it is. >> there's a lot of acronyms. >> alphabet soup. >> the original controversy is whether or not the irs was unfairly -- not allowing tax-exempt status. that was the allegations. this is about whether or not the irs, the same people were also reaching out to the federal election commission? >> or vice versa, whether people at the federal election commission were reaching out to the irs. the bottom line is if there's information in the public domain, there's nothing el lyle. they can talk about -- if it is private, it could potentially be illegal, so that is basically what they're looking at. again we don't know -- the s

the interaction between the irs and fec. lerner used to work at the fec.igation seems it is in early stages. to listen to representative kevin brady of texas. they have e-mails that they think are damning. >> i think representative brady is correct. we are in the early phases of this investigation. it is not too early toorn that the what is going on here is really, really problematic. it is deeply corrupt. it is probably illegal. it changes it is now morphing, gra gone from an irs scandal. president obama earlier this week said that these were phoneo scandals like the mississippi river they keep rolling and keeps getting bigger. i think the republicans are doing well. i think they are very methodical and are not hysterical. they are pursuing it and it will take time but they are pulling on it a thread at a time. >> what about that? if it starts expanding beyond the irs that starts to become more of a problem for the administration. >> they are not supposed to share information but the threat would be that they are sharing information for political purposes

congressman jim jordan co-signed the letter to the fec and joins us now. he chairman of the fec, why did you send it? to ellen weintraub. >> you have to remember. lois lerner who broke the story about the targeting of conservative groups then started the false narrative about

the one thing that is -- might be something to what he says. an expert law enforcement officer and all -- an expert lawyer and all that. it would appear to me to be an fec official checking with an irs official on the status of a group that -- the defense being it's publicly available information but you still singled out this group for questioning and we want to know what you have on them. >> a lot of words to use to describe it. whether or not it's illegal i questionable but the procedure is definitely questionable and may border on illegal. they're supposed to only let people know whether or not a company has received tax exempt status. >> neil: what difference would that make at the fec? >> the fec, part of their job is to investigate whether or not somebody is influencing elections or has -- >> neil: to dominic's point that could be a legitimate inquiry. >> absolutely, but how do you do? your not supposed to just send an e-mail inquiring as to the information. >> neil: what e-mails are fairly innocuous. >> you shouldn't know whether or not they applied for this. that is a pending applications are something that is not supposed to be disclosed by th

to get into these issues. >> gnaw lawmakers are demand thing want all e-mails between the irs and the fecrom 2008 to 2012. >> not the only topic of discussion on the hill. also the implementation or obamacare. >> that's right. the irs plays a key role in the implementation of obamacare. a question came um about why the union employees working at the irs are seeking an exemption from obama care when that agency plays such a critical role. >> why are your employees trying to exempt themselves from the very law you're to enforce? >> i can speak for myself. i prefer to stay withrrent polid with rather than go through a change if i don't need to go through the change. >> change is coming to the irs. president obama is nominateing a new irs commissioner. aides think he has the right leadership skills. >> thanks. an important recall underway. tens of thousands of pounds of ground beef may be tainted with the bacteria e.coli. we have the details straight ahead. >> looks like it just got a lot harder for the u.s. to get its handses on ed snowden. his lawyer said russia just granted him asylum and

the fec, a lawyer used to work there. didn't they ask to share information? 1974 we passed the privacy act. government agencies even for good purposes aren't supposed to share things. originally the social security number was what? a social security number. it wasn't supposed to be used for anything else. now we have a lot of agencies sharing data and it is very concerning to me. i'm a strong believer, we want minimal government. we don't want government everywhere in our lives. we want to impact our lives. >> we just had mark levin on. we've had 27 amendments to the constitution passed but none have passed the other way that article 5 calls for which is through state legislatures. what do you think of that idea in. >> i don't have a problem with it. there are some people concerned about having a constitutional convention, run away. >> this wouldn't be a convention. >> so what i argue to them is, i've testified in favor of a balanced budget amendment in my state legislature. the state legislature can actually write the rules and say, you can only vote on the b

the ftpc policy is 14 days to respond, the fec's policy is 30 days, and so we would ask that at the very least it would remain that the pcc policy of 14 days or possibly longer. we understand that this is a process where you are trying to get through the violation quickly but we would praesht the longer time there well. >> and also to take into account that sometimes it is not a black and white issue, it is not easily seen that someone gave 500 dollars at one point and 100 later on and maybe the campaign stretched over a year and a half and did not realize that they had written up that check and so giving the donor and the campaign a chance to rectify would be appreciated as well. we also have a due process question in regards to the picture to the city and i understand completely that in situations where a candidate or a committee was not supposed to take a contribution they should not benefit from that, but instead of the money going to the city it should go back to the distributor. we would ask that possible have a city attorney on that and giving that it could have implications for a

the fec started looking into whether or not in that same year an endorsement from an iowa anti-gay group cost rick santorum's campaign a million dollars. iowa gets a lot of benefit out of going first when we pick a president. >>> good thursday morning. right now on "first look," three americans are waking up this morning winners of the $448 million powerball. >>> a massive and frightening wildfire continues to plow through parts of california forcing more evacuations. edward snowden has single-handedly sparked a new chapter in the cold war with russians. >>> plus, lingerie for the wealthiest 1%. >>> the house of horrors is no more. >>> and how did a shark end up on a new york city subway? >>> they hit the jackpot. lottery officials say three people won powerball's third biggest pot ever, two tickets in new jersey and one in minnesota matched all six numbers beating the $1- 1-175 million odds. here are the numbers. 5, 25, 30, 58, 59, and 32. the jackpot was originally $425 million. but at the drawing, officials said it spiked to a whopping $448 million. but that lump sum is sliced almost

accounts for government-type business or communications with other individuals in agencies such as the feconcerns about what she was really up to. bill: jay sekulow, chief counsel for the american center of law and justice representing some groups targeted by the irs. jay, good morning to you and welcome become here. >> good morning, bill. bill: what does this mean? >> well it is another troubling development in a series of troubling developments. the explanation which we've not received yet but i'm trying to, practicing law a long time, why would you send government information from your government e-mail account to your personal e-mail account? well, here's one reason why. if a freedom of information act request was filed on your government accounts, then you had stuff on your, other emails going to your private accounts, those private email accounts would not be covered necessarily within the scope of that foia request. the other aspect of this is, was information, taxpayer information, sent from her government account, sent to her private email account? what did she do with that inform

this comes at the same time that the fec started looking into whether or not in that same year an endorsementwa anti-gay group cost rick santorum's campaign a million dollars. iowa gets a lot of benefit out of going first when we pick a president. >>> good thursday morning. right now on "first look," three americans are waking up this morning winners of the $448 million powerball. >>> a massive and frightening wildfire continues to plow through parts of california forcing more evacuations. edward snowden has single-handedly sparked a new chapter in the cold war with russians. >>> plus, lingerie for the wealthiest 1%. >>> the house of horrors is no more. >>> and how did a shark end up on a new york city subway? >>> they hit the jackpot. lottery officials say three pe

right, you know, we have e-mails from the ways and means committee showing lois lerner talking to the fecbout this, as well. the federal election commission. and those go back to 2008 before president obama took office. which does suggest, you know, we may -- >> she might have done it on her own. >> it does suggest this was happening before the president took office and there is a larger and more systemic problem, it goes beyond the irs, beyond the obama administration, it's a larger problem in the bureaucracy. >> thank you so much for joining us. really appreciate it. >> thank you so much. >>> all right. now, rock star bono. has he been watching the "kudlow report"? you may not believe what he just said, but i think you're going to like it. the full story just ahead. [ male announcer ] come to the lexus golden opportunity sales event and choose from one of five lexus hybrids that's right for you, including the lexus es and ct hybrids. ♪ this is the pursuit of perfection. in a world that's changing faster than ever, we believe outshining the competition tomorrow requires challenging your

this comes at the same time that the fec started looking into whether or not in that same year an endorsementgay group cost rick

the republican vice chair of the fec, don mcgann, says e-mails from his staff to the irs raise seriousollusion in the targeting of conservative groups that may also be illegal. what's the irs chief counsel's office doing? william wilkins. is he completely off the hook? too many people in the media are buying into the idea from the president that this is a phony scandal. i do not think it's over. let's go to jay sekulow. he is the chief counsel with the american center for law and justice. as always, jay, i just -- i don't think this is near over. but you tell me. you follow it more closely. >> well, it's not. the latest revelation as you mexed you've got f.e.c. involvement. f.e.c. in coordination, in consultation with the irs, the e-mails are to lois lerner. lois lerner responds back. taxpayer information evidently shared, which is a crime. the government, the irs cannot do that. now we have a better understanding why lois lerner took the fifth amendment, by the way. and while at the same time it was the attorney general eric holder who said this may well be criminal. opened up a crimi

this comes at the same time that the fec started looking into whether or not in that same year an endorcementay group cost rick santorum's campaign a million dollars. iowa gets a lot of benefit out of going first when we pick a president. the next election is still a long way off thank god but maybe it's time for them to start explaining why they deserve to keep going first. now it is time for "last word with lawrence o'donnell." have a great night. >>> president obama made news last night on "the tonight show" telling jay leno he will go to russia and today the white house told vladimir putin that he will not be meeting one-on-one with president obama. >> the big chill between the u.s. and russia may be heading for the deep freeze. >> putin's shelter of edward snowden -- >> no snowde

this comes at the same time that the fec started looking into whether or not in that same year an endorcement from an iowa anti-gay group cost rick santorum's campaign a million dollars. iowa gets a lot of benefit out of going first when we pick a president. the next election is still a long way off thank god but maybe it's time for them to start explaining why they deserve to keep going first. now it is time for "last word with lawrence o'donnell." have a great night. >>> president obama made news last night on "the tonight show" telling jay leno he will go to russia and today the white house told vladimir putin that he will not be meeting one-on-one with president obama. >> the big chill between the u.s. and russia may be heading for the deep freeze. >> putin's shelter of edward snowden -- >> no snowden, no meeting? >> comes at a price. >> he has officially cancelled to plans to meet putin. >> they slipped back into the cold war mentality. that's the past of the we have to think about the future. >> it's a totally moderate response. >> snowden was one part of this puzzle. >> edward snowden,

>> tyler, it was financial regulators from all across the government, including the federal reserve, cftc, fec, comptroller of the currency. the president wanted to sell his economic agenda, only about 40% of the regulations, putting in place the dodd/frank financial regulation reform have been enacted or completed by the regulators. this was a pep rally to try to get them to finish that job. i caught up after the meeting with mary jo white, the chair of the fcc. here is her assessment of this conference. results of the meeting? >> very productive meeting, talking about status and progress under dodd/frank and keep going. >> reporter: what's the most important thing you still have to do? >> we have a number of important things left to do. obviously the volcker rule stands up. >> reporter: this is one part of the president's economic agenda this week. later this week he'll go on the road and press his case for a middle out path to economic growth. he's got to select a new fed chair. ben bernanke who attended this meeting, this may be one of the last times he's at the white house. we know that -