that is going to help grow the middle class? that makes it early no sense at all. >> rose: tell me how the president falls short of doing what you want him to do and how much of it and why do you think that is? >> well, look, i think the point we make in the book is, that this is the sort of focus right now of our time, what do we do about this? and -- >> rose: and i want to talk about the president. >> >> rose: no, i do because you keep trying to bounce away from it. you evade the question. >> i don't evade the question. i this at this president, i like the idea he wants to take top tax rate to 39.6, i think -- >> rose: you like the idea he wants to extend the tax, bush tax cuts or another year. >> for the people under 250,000, right. >> rose: extend the tax cuts -- >> yes right now i wouldn't -- >> rose: more than a year -- >> if they propose a year, that seems like a good deal to me. >> rose: all right. >> okay? i am fine with proposing under 250,000 a year. >> rose: the buffett rule and that kind of extra taxes -- >> yes, tha

the us to. know is that we have to shrinking middle class and the kind of explosion of middle class in two parts a well meter closet is sinking and on the middle class of professionals increasing in incomes in impact in political command of society and we are not we are no more able to to to to to to create new dynamics of either class the problem is not simply technology it's a problem is that investment technology called these investments new businesses and new p.r. stuff from is more and more in china in india in buzz euna and inertia are less in less in the western countries and zoo loo where we don't class or western countries are completely since king they are first hated they face political problems and difficulties and seats we are a problem for they were crises in most with the i want if you want to call i want to do with it was for us i mean ends in the second half of the problem david you look a little perplexed if you want to jump in there yeah well there's two things first of all the middle class is dissolving but it's not that fifty percent are going down and fifty percent are goin

yes the middle is interesting so you. go into your list had we're going to new york first yes yes in fact it's very clear that fifty fifty years ago the western countries where the civilization of middle class the middle class neuroses technicians and engineers and the sky and of of associate proficient all those where as a center also says we does ation of western countries in europe in the us to. know is that we have a shrinking middle class and the kind of explosion of middle class in two parts a well made her closet is sinking and on the middle class of professionals increasing in incomes in impact in political command of society and we are not we are no more able to to to to to to create new dynamics of middle class the problem is not simply technology it's a problem is that investment technology could ease investment new businesses and new will be arsed from is more and more in china in india in buzz euna and inertia are this in less in the western countries and zoo loo where we don't class the western countries are

what we call the middle class in the west recovering i mean what's going to take for the west for the middle class to regain what it's lost over the last three or four decades. in trying to he gains indeed status first through question is. of work it's a problem in many countries and in though your bill western europe and countries of two strong welfare states is that so work the basics of work is disappearing but it's not simply that it's also investment in new businesses investment in here universities and formations the development of a new intermediate professional class such as does it is that has been disappearing over the last thirty years so the problem is that fifty years ago all associates proficient old professionals who are away or kind of in the power of the west of western countries the problem now is we have more of them are kind of nuts could anybody to say going to contrary is in front of the economic poor and technological poor and poor of china and of these two on asia our problems is that we are forgotten that investment and the problem with investment is that it's

by definition not everyone can be in the middle. ost people clearly identify with middle class values, but let's take a look at the numbers. what does it take to be middle class in america? the white house chief economist defines middle class as householding earning 25 to $75,000 a year. the president calls families earning up to $250,000 middle class. the median household income, right in the middle, $49,455. feeling middle class really depends on where you live. a family with a median income right near in manhattan, kansas, would need $115,000 to maintain that same standard in manhattan, new york. in ann arbor, michigan, they need to have 52,000, almost $53,000 and in seattle they need to earn more than $61,000 a year to feel the middle, middle class. if everyone feels like they're in the middle, knots surprise president obama has built his campaign around defending the middle class. defending it from whom? republican senator jon kyl says president obama should stop talking about class because it turns middle income americans again

upfted by what has happened in the middle middle east over the last couple of years. there is no doubt a call for dignity and accountability, a i also think that the nature of modern 90 --e will see this as the modern era spring unfolds, and what we have cfted in the west, itill be ry different. we fctstchmodiz, out of politics. we became the west post- reformation. in the middle east we will see the opposite. sp ie onterty it la g co b ti life. that is because there has never been a division between the muslim world. there has never even been a vocabu nar tht tee ed t th as never a split between the pope and emperor because the caliph was both. the selar leader and religious leader merged into one later. tofhia is a religion of faith only, and it was only when the pope and emperor were united with each other in alliance, that the religious authority had secular power. that's not true in the mlim wh t waveen t abind ate he i v country in that part of the world that has held elections is that political islam is the winner. in ian, iraq,lbleia orit sit, every country wh

well, now it's the middle class stupid. after the 1992 election, bill clinton gave his first joint session address to congress. clear the tables right at the beginning by saying we're only talking about the economy. we're only now talking about the middle class." that's on page 208 of your book. james, why is this the middle class? why is this the theme you would stick to if you were running the campaign? >> it's been a 30-year decline. better than a 30-year decline. with the exception of during the '90s. that was it. people tend to think this started for the financial crisis. it didn't. it's been going a long time. it was like someone with pneumonia being hit by a truck. their lives have been deteriorating, lost 40% of their net worth, had no raise, productivity has gone up. this economy isn't working for the middle class. they know. so we believe it is a great crisis facing the united states today. and we're urging president obama, which he's starting to do, by the way, very, very impressed with his campaign of late, to pu

guest: cutting taxes for the middle class. this president's economic policy, if you look at the recovery act, was 40% tax cuts. he has done tax cuts each year. his main economic philosophy is tax cuts. if you make 250,000 dollars, it would be in the context of making sure been middle-class -- $250,00, it would be in the context of making sure everyone in the middle class gets a tax cut. host: you have said -- we have a $16 billion debt. how did you bring it down? guest: it is not just immoral. it is dishonest. it does not tell us it will cut everything for poor people and we will give rich people a tax break, but we will not tell people things are getting a tax break. according to the cbo, he wants to increase overall health-care costs and cut it to the people who are getting medicare so they can save it and give more tax cuts. it is the essence of immorality. plus, he is a dedicated follower of ayn rand. made his staff read her. she may be one of the most immoral people of the 20th- century. i have talked to a jesuits' about t

really determined that it would change the entire middle east. this level of determination and i see it as a possibility. if there's no choice, if sanctions and negotiations don't work, if iran doesn't shut down, stop, freeze the program, i think there could be military action. >> dan raviv, the co-author of, thanks. >>> who is that mystery woman sitting next to north korea's kim jung-un. >>> and outrage is growing on capitol hill, and one lawmaker says burn them. expensive optionn using a traditional lawyer? well, legalzoom came up with a better way. we took the best of the old and combined it with modern technology. together you get quality services on your terms, with total customer support. legalzoom documents have been accepted in all 50 states, and they're backed by a 100% satisfaction guarantee. so go to legalzoom.com today and see for yourself. it's law that just makes sense. >>> when i reported from north korea back in december 2010, i saw firsthand how secretive its leaders can be. now one of kim jong-un's secrets may be out in the open

for the middle class? >> i agree with you on that. i think we'll see what happens. the leaders of the congressional committee and the senatorial committee are behind the president on this. but let's see how they whip it to use the term from the hill in whether they can enforce that because there will be some candidates in red states or swing places that are going to be reluctant to take the dare. i agree with you, if the democrats don't go firmly on this and back up the president's strategy, it will have no use whatsoever. >> they have to go to the firewall on this issue. they served it up. >> if they want to make it work. >> they have to do it rhetorically to make it stick. >> thank you so much. remember to answer tonight's question. share your thoughts on twitter at ed show and on facebook. >> mitt romney isn't giving good swbs on why he has so much money socked away in offshore accounts. dick durbin joins me next. [ female announcer ] think a thick cream is the only way to firm skin? challenge the need f

we grow from the middle class up. the government has played a role in all of our lives, whether it is educating us about -- housing loans, building homes, building roads, et cetera, and that we are all in this together. and i think the president has really found his voice in a way thanks to romney picking on him so unfairly with this little -- he keeps bearing down on the message on cnbc, here is governor romney yesterday on cnbc, doubling down on his claim the president is anti-free enterprise. >> this is an ideology that says, hey, we are all the same here. we take from all and give to one another. and the achievement individual initiative and risk taking and success are not to be rewarded as they have in the past. it is a very strange and in something respects foreign to the american experience type of philosophy. >> jonathan, does it matter romney is distorting things and taking things out of context? will this matter? >> well, it will matter in that it gets -- it gets the whole conversation back on mitt romney's t

investing in the middle class. right, the president i think is on the right point. you would call it class warfare. we call it common sense. >> so, james carville, i think that leads us to the book, it's "the middle class stupid! "who is the title speaking? could it be speaking to the candidate and more on how the president is sharpening his message on this, don't you think the bush-era tax cuts for those who make over $250,000 is a good start and remember, if you raise it to a million, you lose a lot of revenue. >> don't talk to me. he's right there. talk to him! talk to carville! we don't get him every day. talk to carville. >> carville, he's fine. >> go ahead, james. >> i think 250, a million, look, i think the president is fine. our point of the book is that there's been an ongoing destruction in the american middle class. it didn't start in 2008 with the financial crisis. it hurt like heck. the way we describe it, somebody having pneumonia got run over by a truck. there hasn't been any income growth in the midd

the black middle class was built on the public sector jobs unlike the white middle class, which was built they could guarantee they could be a couple generations working for the company or working for ibm. we don't have a deep ezer vour within the black community that's been a part of the corporate community, so that is not a part of our story or our narrative. and the other issue is at a time when blacks could get jobs in the public sector working for the post office and working as firefighters or police officers, we didn't necessarily have to be college educated or have a graduate school education. now it's a necessity. no longer a luxury because when the white folks get cut from the corporate jobs, we have long before been cut from the positions. >> it is the thing making me most nuts about the unemployment numbers because we see the private sector slowly, maybe meekly, growing. but the public sector -- it just feels like our response is cut taxes. the public sector has fewer resources to hire people. >> we are throwing these african-american public sector employees out of work at a ti

it's winning the middle class. ouncement somewhat shift this campaign and put more pressure on romney? what do you think? >> for a start, the president's talking about the economy again and about pocketbook issues. what are republicans going to do? they want another vote on repealing health care they're off mess and, off topic. they wanted to frame this whole tax debate about money going to everyone, a sort of equality issue. this president reframed it in terms of middle class and how do you get the economy moving again for the middle class in the short term and long-term. i think this is how as president, having the bully pulpit means you set the agenda. the other side has to respond in a meaningful vote. that doesn't mean another repeal of health care. >> richard wolffe, thanks so much. a lot more coming up in the next half hour of "the ed show'. the reports from mitt romney's koch brother fund-raiser read like an obama bashing mustard commercial. >> pardon me, would you have any gray poupon. >> the big panel weig

have you seen an institute for the middle class somewhere? how to get them into better jobs and education and get health care costs down. all the things we can do. i think that the obama administration has made a start with health care costs. i think we've got to push ahead. that's the ticket. >> no doubt about that. now, president obama was on cbs this morning and he said that he regrets more than anything else that he did not inspire americans. you've been critical in the past saying he needs to get on message. let me show you what he said. >> the mistake of my first couple of years was thinking this job was just about getting the policy right. then my first two years i think the notion was -- well, you know, he's been juggling and managing a lot of stuff. but where's the story that tells us where he's going? and i think that was a legitimate criticism. >> what would you say to that? >> i think the criticism was legitimate and his acknowledging it was legitimate. you have to take people -- that's why franklin roosevelt had fireside chats. i

the president wants to keep tax cuts for the middle class. the president wants to let the bush tax cuts expire for the top 2%. mitt romney pushes the old line about how this will hurt the job creators. but today, in grand junction, colorado, romney did something rarlth strange and extraordinary, i think. he got very nostalgic about the policies of president bill clinton. >> bill clinton called himself a new democrat. he put that behind him. he believed in smaller government, reformed welfare as we knew it and try today get the economy going with trade and other provisions, lowered taxes. new democrats have done some good things. a lot of republicans have done some good things, but this old style liberalism of bigger and bigger government and bigger and bigger taxes has gault to end and we will end it in november. >> that's right. you just heard the republican nominee for president talking about the glory days of president bill clinton. funny thing, though, romney got his facts wrong. taxes were higher under president clinton compared to presid

so we should all agree to extend the tax cuts for the middle class. let's agree to do what we agree on. right? that's what compromise is all about. let's not hold the vast majority of americans and our entire economy hostage while we debate the merits of another tax cut for the wealthy. we can have that debate. we can have that debate but let's not hold up working on the thing that we already agree on. in many ways, the fate of the tax cut for the wealthiest americans will be decided by the outcome of the next election. my opponent will fight to keep them in place. i will fight to end them. but that argument shouldn't threaten you. it shouldn't threaten the 98% of americans who just want to know that their taxes won't go up next year. middle class families and small business owners, they deserve that guarantee. they deserve that certainty. it will be good for the economy and it will be good for you. we should give you that certainty now. we should do it now. it will be good for you, it will be good for the economy as a whole. so my message to congress

and we also -- >> that's your definition of the middle class? >> sure. we go with the people. 0% in our polls self-define as middle class. another 25% working class. >> you're not going off a numerical equation, james. >> imagine you own your own condominium in tampa, you're a lot better off than somebody living in the metropolitan area with three kids. >> by shared dollars you be with bordering on underclass. >> so what stan decided to do, because this is his area of expertise, is go by description and take people who describe themselves as middle class and working class and lump them together. if you want to get in the club, we'll let you in. just raise your right hand. >> 125,000 for a median family of four, about that line. >> there are different estimates of that. a congressional research service defines middle class as $40,000 to $250,000. that's a big, big gap there to define the middle class. but let's talk about what happens next in this equation. forget about the candidates, forget about left and right, forget about democrat and republican what does washington need to

let's lock that in, that the middle class will get a tax cut. there's a -- there's an old cliche that that definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results. we've been in this -- we've been in this policy shop before, when they sold us the same flawed economic policies based upon tax cuts for the wealthy trickling down to the middle class. i was in the house of representatives in the first part of the last decade when president bush came to us. we had a huge budget surplus, if you remember those days, a huge budget surplus. in fact, in 2001, we had the largest budget surplus in american history. surplus, not deficit. look what we're dealing with now. so what happened? we went -- two wars, iraq and afghanistan. bad idea to go into iraq. contentious issue, the intelligence wasn't really right that the congress was given. many of us voted against it. but put that aside, nobody paid for that war in iraq. then there was the tax cuts that went overwhelmingly to the wealthiest people in our society. nobody pai

built from the middle out and not from the top down.s the heart of the choice we have this november. you know, four years ago, alley and i were proud to caucus with our neighbors for then senator obama. she was five months pregnant at the time with cooper, so she was eating and caucusing for two that night. four years later, alley and i are expecting another son in september. we couldn't be more proud to stand by our president once again. [ cheers and applause ] he has had our backs and we have his. so let's all stand up and show the world that what started in iowa four years ago continues today. ladies and gentlemen, please welcome the president of the united states, barack obama. [ cheers and applause ] ♪ >> hello cedar rapids! it is good to be back. in cedar rapids. all right. a couple people i want to acknowledge. first of all, please give jason and his wife alley a big round of applause. they are just wonderful people. i'm so glad i had a chance to meet them. they're debating what to name their son. if you guys have some suggestion

they voted against giving tax cuts to the middle class and the working force. and by the way, it always reduces the deficit by a good amount. that walked away from that because they wanted to give tax cuts to millionaires and billionaires and it wasn't good enough for them. so i have to say this election is so critical and it is so important that everybody weigh in and that women weigh in and they go to the people who love them and they explain what's on the line. everything is on the line. >> very, very, very serious times. senator barbara boxer, california, thank you for your leadership on this issue as well as for your time tonight. >> thank you. >>> coming up, today one party voted to raise taxes on the rich. the other party voted to raise taxes on the poor. can you guess which is which? >>> plus a judge names a new temporary guardian for michael jackson's kids. >>> and conservatives take aim at the muppets. these folks really have too much time on their hands. you're watching "politicsnation" on msnbc. with the spark cash card from capital one, sven's home

the book is called "it's the middle class stupid" and mr. james carville joins us for the interview. thank you for being here. >> i'm glad to be here, rachel. >> you were saying when we were playing the clip that issues like the student loan thing resonate with people more than people think they do. you think the beltway doesn't think issues like that resonate? >> i don't think they do. they understand that romney would be letting the banks make more money. stekdly, when you talk about the middle class and how do you regrow the middle class and bring it back, education is at the forefront. they understand that. i grew up, that was the ticket to prosperity. if you got an education, you knew it was going to pay for itself. that was the best investment you could make. now, not so sure. we find out the kids have more dent than the education is worth and we have to change that, and this kind of thing, i think this is a good issue. a good political issue. i think it will resonate with people and i think they'll understand it. i really do. >> one of

again, part of the problem in the middle east today is that 75% of most of the countries in the middle east have a population under the age of 30 and they don't have jobs. that's a revolution in the making. russia has the opposite problem. so does japan. they're not reproducing themselves at a rate to sustain economic development. so the united states, we rll pretty good demographic ratio going forward. the next thing that we have that a lot of countries don't have is wome ambassador ware and i have been out there on the forefront of women's movements but in a lot of countries, women are educated but aren't allowed to enter the work force. japan would be an example. economists tell us that women who are educated and join the work force is a 30%, 40% increase in gnp. we have that one solved. so we're riding pretty good. the only problem that we have, i think, is our debt and deficit problems. we can't seem to summon the political will to pay off our debt or to balance our budget, and for that, the good lord and divine providence have thrown us a lifesaver because if you look at countrie

on the middle-class, so we should all agree to extend the tax cut for the middle-class. ree to do what we agree on. right. that is what compromise is all about. let's not hold the vast majority of the americans and the entire economy hostage while we debate the merits of another tax cut for the wealthy. we can have that debate. we can have that debate, but let's not hold up working on the thing that we already agree on. in many ways the fate of the tax cut for the wealthiest americans will be decided by the outcome of the next e llection. my opponent will fight to keep them in place, and i will fight to end them. but that argument shouldn't threaten you. it shouldn't threaten the 98% of americans who just want to know that their taxes won't go up next year. middle-class families and small business owners deserve that guarantee. they deserve that certainty. it is gooder f for the economy it will be good for you and we should give you that certainty now. we should do it now. it will be good for you, and it will be good for the economy as a whole. so my message to congress i

the battle for the middle class. ident obama today asking the congress to compromise by extend tax cuts for the middle class, not the wealthy. let me play you something he said and get your response of what the politics should be. >> so we should agree to extend the tax cuts for the middle class. let's agree to do what we agree on. right? let's not hold the vast majority of the economy hostage while we debate the merits of another tax cut for the wealthy. -- for the 98% of americans who make less than $250,000 for another year. >> with republicans and another position of being between a rock and a hard place. what he's saying is don't hold the middle class hostage. we can keep fighting and arguing about the rich, but let's extend the middle class tax cuts for a year. politically how do they deal with that? >> well, i mean, you've seen them already push back. you've seen mitt romney release a statement and say raising taxes at this time of economic crisis on anyone just isn't a good idea. you saw the president flanked