the nfl knew it, but the players certainly didn't know it. >> narrator: on the other side, the nfl's presenting the national football league will be paul clement, who will be flanked by anastasia danias, she's from the national football league, and also beth wilkinson from paul weiss... >> narrator: they insisted the league had done nothing wrong. >> let's be clear. we strongly deny those allegations that we withheld any information or misled the players. and if we have to defend this suit, as paul was alluding to, we will do that and be able to make those factual allegations. but we absolutely deny those allegations. >> narrator: but away from the cameras, the two sides were engaged in tense court-ordered negotiations. >> the players, initially, they were requesting around $2 billion or a little more than $2 billion, and what we've been told is the nfl was offering virtually nothing-- they were offering "peanuts," as one person said. >> narrator: the players believed they had significant leverage-- a threat to the nfl. >> the threat was that the doctors and trainers, neuropsychologis

the nfl. they will squash you. >> narrator: next, part one of "league of denial: the nfl's concussion crisis" >> frontline is made possible by contributions to your pbs station from: and by the corporation for public broadcasting. major support for frontline is provided by the john d. and catherine t. macarthur foundation. committed to building a more just, verdant, and peaceful world. more information is available at macfound.org. additional funding is provided by the park foundation. dedicated to heightening public awareness of critical issues. the wyncote foundation. and by tfrontline journalism fund with a grant from and scott nathan and laura debonis. (horns blowing) >> erenberg touchdown! >> listen to this crowd, they're on fire! >> the steelers have their key receivers in. stallworth on the left, 82, swann, 88, on the right. franco harris is now at the 30, big pileup. he fumbled the ball! and let's see... minnesota has it! jeff siemon on it. >> oh, yeah! it's still wild and woolly, and

the nfl took action. they've changed the rules.hey've created this fund with $765 million to take care of the players' health needs. why are you saying they are in denial? >>ic it's interesting. when you look at the way the league has dealt with this over times, there is certainly a move they've made, but when the commissioner is asked, is there a connection between football and brain damage, he says the same thing he said four years ago when he got hammered before congress, we'll let the medical people decide that. the medical people already decided that. >> you get your medical people, i'll get my medical poom. >> that's sot of what they did. that's exactly what they did. >> stephen: okay, isn't there a point at which we make things too safe? all sport are dangerous on a certain level, aren't we? you didn't see the ancient romans worrying about the brain damage the christians and the lions, okay. ( laughter ) so have you guys been attacked by nfl? have you been attacked by the nfl? because the doctor vbz attacked. have you person

the owners. very well paid. $30 million a year. nfl headquarters is tax exempt and it pays roger goodell $30 million a year. host: how did that happen? guest: that 1966 piece of legislation that granted the anti-trust waiver, also a classic example of the lobbyists art. it. snuck the phrase into when congress voted on that bill in 19 6 they essentially said philanthropies, opera houses and professional football leagues are exempt from federal taxes. the individual clubs we assume pay corporate income taxes but since they don't disclose anything we don't actually know that host: $30 million a year. how does he earn that money? guest: people have said that goodell is worth that because the free market has shown that the nfl is success. it certainly is successful. the league rolls in money, almost $10 billion in revenue is expected this year. it's not a free narcotic. the stadiums are built largely or entirely of public expense. it's not a free market at all. why does he pay himself $30 million? because he can get away with it, wambingly.

>> look at the nfl. is season you have had as many as eight or nine african- american quarterbacks starting in a given week. these african-american head coaches. ,ou had african-american gm's ozzie newsome of the defending super bowl champs -- none of that would have existed without the pages that came out of black college football in 1967 in particular. also the fact that schools that hadn't desegregated their teams until the late 1960 possible or early 1970 path -- now they are african-american. there are other changes. that's just on the field. what: before we get to happened on the field, how did what happened that year changed the course of civil rights? >> that's a fair question to ask. the thing you have to remember is football, particularly in the south, was one of the strongest of the stronghold for the jim crow era and segregation. four years after big colleges, state universities in a place like alabama, mississippi, louisiana, georgia, texas, south carolina -- you name it. after they be grudgi

the nfl is a brand. it doesn't represent football. it doesn't have anything to do with high school football, or arena football, or college football. it is a brand representing the teams, the very highly profitable teams, and that's different than a broad association of groups of people, the national skiing association or something, that represented a whole sport. this is a brand. and i think that's what really -- what the difference is. >> so what kind of -- this bill that you introduced, what kind of support does it actually have in the u.s. senate? a lot of times, look, i note that this bill is being sponsor bid two guys who do not have nfl franchises in their states. is there going to be a divide we see states with football and states without the nfl? >> well, i don't know. that'll be kind of an interesting question. but, you know, if you have king and coburn, that's a lot of muscle right there. we just sent a "dear colleague" letter out the day before yesterday, and so we don't really know what kind of support we're going to get. y

and earlier this year, sabra hummus became the official dip of the nfl. ng. (cheers and applause) it's pretty exciting. they're already grinding the chick peas for the sell bra tory hummus dump. folks, there is a reason the nfl takes corporate participate so seriously. in fact, there are 1.2 billion reasons because that's how much it costs to make bud light the nfl's official beer which is actually a pretty fair price for officially recognizing are bud lite as a beer. (applause) i love this sponsorship. folks, i love this partnership and so does one of the game's biggest stars because here's what broncos quarterback payton manning said after his team's win on sunday. >> what is on my mind is how soon i can get a bud lite in my mouth after the game. priority number one. >> folks, i believe this just might be the greatest act of sports adjacent corporate promotion since lou gehrig's tearful farewell. >> today i consider myself the luckiest man on the face of the earth. and a it's all thanks to brill cream, a little dab will do you. >> payton manning you keep

>> the nfl should not pay taxes because you are talk about the administrative part of the nfl. teams themselves pay taxes. they pay over $10 billion worth of taxes every year. that is the teams themselves. boy, that is not chopped liver. you find somebody else not paying $10 billion worth of taxes. i'll tell you. >> michelle, ask you this. i'm trying to figure this out. tom coburn, the republican senator from oklahoma says the nfl should pay tax. what do you think of that? >> he is absolutely wrong. it's really difficult for me to get outraged by the fact that someone isn't paying more money to got. it's good to have money in the hands of ordinary people rather than a government bureaucrat. like wayne said, the individual franchises pay taxes. they pay taxes on all the per per -- merchandise. the administrative arm isn't paying taxes. i don't think it's a bad thing. >> throw you a bone here. the commissioner of the nfl roger goodell, guess how much he made last year? $29 million. i'm sure he will pay taxes on that, though. >> the top five executives made around $60 million. they

inside the business of nfl. diplomacy at work. can you put the secretary of state, john kerry, and dennis rodman next to each other on the same video? we might try. robot invasion. it is happening all over the world. a basement us are in and could take you years to get a reservation. there is no shortage of deals now that everyone is back from a long holiday vacation, trying to make up for the days off. s. is buying spectrum from verizon wireless. they are the fourth largest u.s. carrier. verizon is number one. this is part of an airwave that and give both companies -- airwave swap that will give both space where they need it. >> the big deals come from this man. john malone is the leader of liberty media. ofy offered to take control sirius xm holdings. the swap is valued at more than $10 billion. pay forl could help another deal with charter communications, bidding for time warner cable. thatmight get bigger with time warner cable deal. 's also learned that malone liberty global is putting its final touches on ziggo. necessarily a

inside the business of nfl. diplomacy at work. can you put the secretary of state, john kerry, and dennis rodman next to each other on the same video? we might try. robot invasion. it is happening all over the world. this dinner is served in a basement and could take you years to get a reservation. there is no shortage of deals now that everyone is back from a long holiday vacation, trying to make up for the days off. t-mobile u.s. is buying spectrum from verizon wireless. they are the fourth largest u.s. carrier. verizon is number one. this is part of an airwave swap that will give both companies space where they need it. >> the big deals come from this man. john malone is the leader of liberty media. they offered to take control of sirius xm holdings. the swap is valued at more than $10 billion. that deal could help pay for another deal with charter communications, bidding for time warner cable. they might get bigger with that time warner cable deal. we also learned that malone's liberty global is putting its final touches on zig

is the nfl's screwing fans? ote on the right-hand side of the screen and i will share the results. more to come, my "2 cents more." and in many parts of the country these temperatures are being accompanied by a record snowfalls. how one is trying to make life easier for you this winter coming up. we will be right back. ♪ [ chilen yelling ] [ telephone rings ] [ shirley ] ed jones. this is shirley eaking. how y i help you? oh hey, neill, how areou? how was the trip? [ male announcer ] with nearly 7 million investors... [ shirle] he's right here. hold on one sec. [ malennouncer ] ...you'd expect us to have a highly skilled call center. kevin, neill holley's on line one. ok, great. [ male announcer ] and we do. it's how edward jones makes sense of investing. ♪ open to innovation. open to ambition. open to boldids. that's why n yorkk has a new plan -- dozens of tax free zon all across the state. move here, expand here, or start a new business here d pay no taxes for ten years... we're new york. if there's something t

sherrod brown blew the whistle on the nfl's threat. t a time when the price of attending games continuing to rise and the economy is not where it needs to be. i applaud the senator for doing that. nfl owners are some of the wealthiest americans. good for them. they use taxpayers to subsidize the building of their stadiums. they charge extraordinary amounts for tickets. and they have used this blackout rule for years as extortion to grab every dollar they possibly can get. the federal communications commission, by the way, recently proposed to eliminate the sports blackout rule. this is a case, i believe, of classic income inequality. if you're wealthy, you have all the access to entertainment. if you're an average joe wage earner, you're left in the cold. senator sherrod brown of ohio joins us now. good to have you with us. i think it's gutsy to bring this up. because the nfl is such a -- such an institution in america. it's really a big part of our culture. and i was certainly interested in your story today on the radio when you talked

you have to come to the nfl and the nfl players to get that.create that in a 30-second clip and you draw on that emotion around a sport and an athlete that people see as really super sized in their own lives it's just very magical. and i tip my hat to the creative people who made that. it's just awesome. >> but the nfl has to okay, you can't just go for it. >> yes. we okay everything. mark waller and his staff in marketing and our creative people review everything. they approve everything. and we hope that they get it right all the time. >> all right. now, i see you're on -- on the lapels, i see you have some new decal. what have you got? >> i've got the nfl pin, i'm glad you noticed it and right below it is a limited edition, this is for the fire and police departments of new york and new jersey. we owe a lot to them in all areas and in our recent memory we owe them a tremendous debt of gratitude. i'm taking the opportunity on your show. >> well, someone wants to buy them, can they? >> yes, you can buy and trade them. this is a terrific nfl li

i am only 23, and i do not know how long i will be in the nfl. pportunity to save as much now. >> i do not go out a lot, and spend a lot of money. i've a good financial team, and i'm going to stick with my mother and not go over budget. >> europe to start small, and look at the growth. when you see the growth, you will start to understand the possibilities. >> i believe in saving commented something that works everything old i'm -- every single time. today, saving is something i have learned over time, you cannot go wrong doing that. i do not know anybody who is saved to a flock money. -- who has lost money. >> we also asked them was their first -- what their first major purchase was. >> i bought my mother a house, moved her to a spot i could feel ok with. >> bought my sister a car, and helped her to go to nursing school. >> i bought my mom a house, that was the first big purchase. had to make sure she was situated. >> a mutual fund was the first thing i purchased. i did a reward program after i saved a certain amount. a $400 ipod back in 2003. >>

i have spoken to teammates in other locker rooms across the nfl, and i said is this normal? and the consensus was this is not normal. >> a lot of what i'm hearing centers around richie incognito. was it one individual or more than one? >> more than one. it was a culture. offensive line men are like a brotherhood. >> it started your rookie year, and did you feel like you were singled out? do you think you got it more? >> other people got it too. i can't say why i may have gotten more, there is normal hazing in the nfl. you get a haircut, stuff like that, little pranks. but of a personal attacking nature, i don't think there is any place for that. >> did you talk to anybody before you started your second year? >> i did mention, and the organization knew they was struggling. >> who did you talk to? >> i had conversations with my coaches. i didn't get into specifics. you're not supposed to, "snitch" on teammates. i would talk to coaches about my teammates. >> you say there was no one specific incident, but at some point you started thinking about leaving the team. tell me what le

scouts say you have to be 6'2" to start to be a successful quarterback in the nfl. >> 28 of the 32 startinguarterbacks are 6'2" or taller. nobody under six feet is starting in the nfl right now. >> if i was 6'2", i couldn't see over any offensive lineman. they're 6'8". >> what is it about society that we want to put people in these boxes and say he's too short, he can't do this? >> that's a tough question. the biggest thing is we want to find the prototypical person. you want to find the perfect athlete, actress, whatever it is, and the thing that makes people unique is what they bring to the table that's different than everybody else. i want to be the uncommon one. i think it's pretty cool that i'm only 5'11" and playing in the national football league. >> does having to approach football a little different make you a better player? >> i think it gives me an extra bit of motivation, a little fire in me. >> wilson comes from a family of high achievers. his grandfather was a university president. his grandmother earned a doctorate on her way to becoming a college dean. and then there was his

the story behind a band of vie lapt vigilantes. and an nfl mascot takes a terrifying plunge. and bad weather device. don't drive in it and never jump on a frozen trampoline. >>> what seems like a fun holiday tradition quickly turned in on something par worse. you'll see what i'm talking about in this video out of italy near naples. it's a 45-year-old firefighter, he's dressed as a character who is an old woman, an italian tradition, signifies the end of the christmas holiday. he's going to zip line to a nearby building. there are all kinds of people on the street. and there's music, jubilation. but watch what happens here. >> did the cable just snap? >> the cable snapped. cause is being investigated. could be brick work not being able to hold the cable. he swings into the tower of the building. very hard. and you'll see when he starts to swing, listen to the thud here. you hear that thud and you see him kind of hanging. paramedics were at the scene and they were able to lower him down. he was rushed to the hospital. had to have emergency surgery for a serious head injury. the

pain is a big problem in the nfl." s on the question of pain? >> for me personally it's not as addictive. pain pills, i had some injuries over my career that were pretty bad and required surgery and a lot of rehab and pain pills made me feel sad, depressed, down, sluggish mentally, and pills are something you can do all day long. you could be sitting at meetings taking pills whereas marijuana you can't do that at meetings, you can't be at practice smoking weed. it's something you do after the fact. and for me it helped me take my mind off my body and the pain and it wasn't physically addictive. there were no withdrawal symptoms. >> one of the things you said in an earlier interview is you guessed about 50%, maybe 60% of players use marijuana. that seems like a fairly big percentage given the fact that it's not officially sanctioned in the nfl. was it kind of -- the coaches look the other way? what was the culture in and around the use of it? >> yeah, i think the coaches look the other way. they understand these guys are

>> the nfl continues to grow its product. ys looking for new ways to distribute the game itself, the images of the game. commissioner goodell and his team do a very good job. the challenge today is how do you compete with what goes on in the stadium versus sitting at home with a very large tv where you're not inconvenienced by traffic. that's what they work on, how to ensure when you're sitting there for three hours, you'll experience an event that you'll talk about for weeks with your kids. when you say i was at a jets game or a giants game, it was a great sunday. >> it has nothing to do with the weather, nothing to do with the, paing situation. they'll all be sold. there won't be any empty seats in this stadium. >> no. >> what it depends on, you can't control which teams -- i think you got lucky. russell versus peyton. thank god sherman lost it onn erin andrews. he's like miley cyrus. he grew up in compton and went to stanford. >> 4.2 average. the best offense against the best defense. what better matchup could you ask for?

to the end zone, touchdown! >> most nfl wouldn't be a game away from the super bowl just months after major open heart surgery. but john fox has an ace in the hole, peyton manning. i once read you described him as a special cat. >> the guy's remarkable. i mean, from rehab to strength and conditioning, the mental work, game preparation, film work, the guy's probably the best time manager on the planet, let alone in the nfl. >> he's so detailed oriented on the field. can you give us a peek into how detailed oriented he is off the field? >> he sent me a picture, he was in the cold tub soaking an ankle of his that was sore, looking at his ipad and had his football helmet on so that he could listen to the coach-to-quarterback outside, while he was rehabbing, he was gettingmental reps on the field. >> so he can multi task, no doubt? >> yes. >> earlier this year, the owner of the former colts' team criticized manning for having only won one super bowl in indianapolis. it was fox who stepped in to defend manning. you called them a

the nfl's concussion settlement. and no deal. >> they had a deal, and no deal up right now, but that could change. let me explain. it was the largest sports related settlement in history. but the nfl may have to pay more than the record-breaking settlement. the u.s. federal judge rejected it, saying that i'm primarily concerned that not all nfl players who didn't receive a qualifying diagnoses and their families will be paid. joining me, ted corliss, and ted, we appreciate the time. >> my pleasure. >> lane phillips, a federal judge from california, was appointed by judge brody to lead the negotiations and at the time he called the $765 million settlement a fair deal when it was announced in august, and were then would judge brodo come behind him and reject it. >> he was hired to produce the best settlement he could with the parties negotiating and the judge's job is different. she has to look out for the people who were not able toker participate in the negotiations, and in this case, we're talking about as many as 20

the life they know is over. that is where one nfl quarterback can help. assador for the life reimagined row graham. the third all time career passing yards. third all time for career touchdowns. dan marino spoke -- >> as you are going through your career and whatever it may be, what you want to get into as far as your second career, it will help you. it is a platform. it is your personal gps. you can go there and get information. it was about relationships for me when i was playing. building relationships outside the sport area kind of finding what your passions are. either when you are done playing, more prepared and ready to go. i played 17 years. i had my idea i wanted to do tv and get into businesses. but i did not know for sure. i suggest, and i talked to current players, you always try to get in to a field you have a passion for. .org will help you navigate that. if you are a former player looking to make a change in your life, you could jump on the website and find out what you would want to do and they can help. >> he has been a cbs pregame analyst

we contacted the nfl which tells abc news, "we can never fulfill all the requests for tickets. the nfl's super bowl ticket distribution process has been in existence for years and is well documented. we are confident it is in compliance with all applicable laws." what's your clients experience with ticket buying? >>our client spent $2,000 for tickets that probably have a face value of $1,000. so for him it was double. >>the new york post reports prices for suites are going for $1 million.why are prices rising so quickly? >>i think it's a combination of things. the fact that the nfl keeps 25% of their tickets for their own folks but what happens with a large number of these tickets is they end up on the secondary market. these secondary folks come in and they package these tickets. >>those packages include, limo rides,and pre-game festivities.. is your goal to get more tickets away from the corporate sponsors and thesecondary market and into regular fans hands? >>what would be fair is if the nfl put restrictions and said that those tickets that go to the individual teams would h

the network. it reads in part nfl is very aggressive in protecting their trademark. they have so in the world that people are shy about using the logo without permission. and it's true. i mean just look how commercials avoid naming this championship. within get ready for the big game sale. >> it's the big game sale event. >> big game. >> big game sale. >> the big game, mattress supersale. >> are you ready for the big game! (laughter) >> stephen: yeah, the big game. and of course we all know -- (cheers and applause) we all know the winner of the big game goes to animated mouse theme park. but-- (laughter) sports nation, i'm going to-- not going to just give up just because the network won't let me play footage or show official logos or mention the name of the game. >> i believe we can cover the story like nobody else simply by moving one consonant in the title. so ladies and gentlemen, it is time for my week long coverage of superb owl 48. jim? (cheers and applause) whooo! >> stephen: nation, this week superb owl coverage-- (laughter) will be as majestic as the great a

i want to talk about the potential nfl blackouts. of the playoffs games are not sold out three why is that? >> i think you look at the fact that there was such a cost and also such a demand, but the combination of our short-term numbers and the demand immediately coming up on six days notice, it's a stretch. and yes, i think you said it in the tease a couple of moments ago, the experience at home is a comfortable experience and the nfl is confronting that. the former oakland raider president was talking about how the emphasis for the nfl right now is to increase that experience at the games, to make it very attractive for people to spend that hundreds of dollars for those tickets. that is what the push poll is, particularly on short notice when you don't know what time, saturday or sunday, and that's why you are looking at currently a lack out rule which was the subject of a legal entanglement. >> i was just speaking with the former ceo of the raiders he basically thinks is lack out rule is irrelevant. yet there is an argument for loc

the nfl.>> $765 million, a total that represents the largest sports related settlement in history. but when you dive defer, the players who received concussion and mental illnesses may not receive as much as they thought. those who dies and cte is found in his brain, $4 million. $3 million available for former players with dementia, but a diagnoses with any of these conditions must be made before the age of 45 in order for a player to receive the maximum amount. only a handful of players will qualify. the older the player, the less money he or his family receives. joining us from tampa, florida, ted corliss, what does this mean for those who accept the terms, and those who opted out of the lawsuit? >> yesterday, the representatives of the nfl, as well as 18,000 players filed a motion with the court to approve a settlement that had been entered into last august, regarding a payment of $765 million. the way it's going to be broken up, $765 million will be available for compensation for players t

you suspect tuesday to your outspoken views, you're having trouble finding a job in the nfl despite the fact you can still perform as an athlete. i want to get your reaction to this. in 2012, "san diego tribune" found 21 of 32 nfl teams at one point that year had a player with a domestic violence or sexual assault charge on his record. is there a double standard that the league will allow people that have these kinds of criminal entanglements back on to play, no problem, but someone like yourself is now looking at exile? >> i think it is a problem, and i think it's one that we as society let the nfl get away with because we're more concerned about seeing players that will entertain us with feats of athletic fortitude on the field rather than, you know, hey, are these guys taking care of business in their personal life? you know, are they acting like human beings? and i think, again, that's something that as a whole, as a society, we have to ask ourselves that question. is our entertainment worth what we're paying for it in terms of how people are acting? >> finally, do you think we will

the nfl won't comment on belcher's mother's lawsuit. ity chiefs told us they are aware of the suit but won't comment on it. jim? >> belcher's family are even having his body exhumed to deal with this? >> that's right. they had the body exhumed two weeks ago from a cemetery on long island. his brain is being tested for what's called chronic traumatic encephalopathy, the brain disease caused by head trauma linked to dementia and depression which has affected a lot of former players. tony dorsett says it affected him. belcher's family is awaiting the results of that exam. >> brian, thank you. for more, let's turn to cnn's dr. sanjay gupta. he has been reporting on the relationship between concussions and brain disease for years here at cnn and also with me is steve feinarau, author of "league of denial." thank you for joining us. sanjay, interesting that brian todd just mentioned that the family of belcher had his body exhumed so his brain could be examined for this condition, cte. that's basically how it has to work. the person has to die

the ceo and president. etl associates. he represents players from four nflount proposed is sufficient. he told fox business, quote, the $765 million sellment is on the lightened. if you take into account the league generates close to 9 billion in annual revenue. the settlements close to $1 billion would be more acceptable. it was filed on behalf of 5500 former players and families. david: it will cost the nfl for that. speaking of the nfl one company is focused on enhancing nfl fans instadium experiences. extreme networks announce ad partnership with the nfl to provide wi-fi networks in the league's stadiums. liz: no, i don't have a signal, right? it includes the super bowl which is expected to attract 82,000 fans in the stadium. join us in a fox business exclusive, chris comewell, the chief operating officer. it is not just the super bowl. you have the real opportunity to wire every single arena if you get your way, correct. >> let's start the official announcement of the partnership today, liz was being the wi-fi analytics provider to the nfl the second ph

he's the current president of the nfl physicians society. ank you so much for being here and thanks for your patience. i know you are getting ready for the big games between the denver broncos and seattle seahawks. tell us about something called the nfl sideline assessment tool -- the baseline test. what is this test question are >> the baseline test is a narrow psychological test that measures memory, process, speed and balance to tell how a player is an be used that same tool after the sideline it takes six or eight minutes to assess and we can determine whether he's had eight concussion. >> how long ago was this introduced in the league? >> we now have on the sidelines, so there are timers built-in and graphic representation. this coming season, the nfl will use the electronic medical records throughout their problems -- throughout their life, so the we will know their allergies and other medical problems. will have real-time access to their medical records of stop >> who created the actual questionnaire? i noticed one of the big things th

isn't that a huge part of the nfl culture? and this is the reason why, again, professional football is really about -- is really part of americana, where people like to have a to attend sunday's a year where they -- h2 to 10 sundays a year where they can do that. if they remove the lockout rule, i do think that what is going to happen is you will see the price of accessing nfl content with mobile devices go up. >> we should say that the fcc has moved to end the blackout rule, and the nfl will strongly oppose it. >> let's hope they prevail. >> the owners say the solution is technology for tom -- is technology. i see people paying a lot of money to see the game at now they are watching something else on their phone. >> now that is a statement on the culture. >> is it compelling enough? are they giving people the compelling enough roddick in the arena? if they want the arenas in the stadiums full, they have to make the product compelling enough. if they are watching something else while they are there, that makes -- that mean some

they give them x amount of dollars to run the nfl. what they do with it is what the examination is going to be about. you still have to define what a nonprofit is and move from there if you are going to figure out exactly what they want to do. >> so -- see so much money. if they did take the nonprofit status away from the nfl and a few other of the professional teams, nba, by the way, is not a nonprofit. >> and so is major league baseball. they gave it up five or six years ago. >> they didn't want to reveal some of the information you are required to for nonprofit is what i understand. if you strip that away, if we were to strip all of the away about $10 million a a year revenue. so it's not a huge amount of tax revenue. >> that's the interesting thing to me is you talk about $9 million. washington redskins, 1.2 billion. dallas cowboys 10 pain a billion. the values are there for the team. the question is, what kind of benefit are you going to gain by taking away the status of a nonprofit. how much status are you going to be able to tax