the teachers union or the parents? i think it's the parents and so do they. >> well, the parents overwhelmingly want them. i'm so glad that rick pointed out this physicalure in the democratic party. you have people on the right side of this like rahm emanuel, governor cuomo in new york and then you have people like de blasio and part of the reason his polls are plummeting he is on the wrong side of this. how could you be against parents wanting their kids to get out of the cycle of poverty by getting a real education. >> and john, we should mention by the way, we mentioned there is this connection with the old acorn people, and the teachers union, the teachers union funding acorn, acorn putting de blasio in office. and remember, president obama was very close to acorn. it was his administration funneling money towards them. >> yeah, i mean, i may not like it, i can see why teachers are defending their turf. how ever wrong it may be. my only problem with this discussion is that too often all of the criticism is on teach

the heavy pressure from the teacher's union. the teacher's union views these as very very dangerous. because a lot of these teachers are not unionized. and they have different rules and they can give incentive pay and do all the things you are supposed to do to straighten out a scovment second it, gives a little bit too much control to the parents which i think the teacher's union doesn't like. i think maybe as a matter of ideology he has problems with this. i mean, i don't understand it. the people that are being helped by this are the children who -- where their parents feel they're not getting good enough education in the public schools. why shouldn't their parents have a choice? why shouldn't they have more alternatives? we can hardly say our public school system in this country is working so well that there shouldn't be other alternatives. >> you know, mayor, i have actually walked through a charter school in new york city. one part of it is the charter school and the other is the public school it is like walking from one un

the teachers union or the parents?s the parents and so do they. >> well, the parents overwhelmingly want them. i'm so glad that rick pointed out this physicalure in the democratic party. you have people on the right side of this like rahm emanuel, governor cuomo in new york and then you have people like de blasio and part of the reason his polls are plummeting he is on the wrong side of this. how could you be against parents wanting their kids to get out of the cycle of poverty by getting a real education. >> and john, we should mention by the way, we mentioned there is this connection with the old acorn people, and the teachers union, the teachers union funding acorn, acorn putting de blasio in office. and remember, president obama was very close to acorn. it was his administration funneling money towards them. >> yeah, i mean, i may not like it, i can see why teachers are defending their turf. how ever wrong it may be. my only problem with this discussion is that too often all of the criticism is on teachers and teac

it's not clear what will happen at the school and drummond montessori where teachers spearheaded the boycott. according to the teachers' union, parents and more than 70 schools have expressed the don't want their children taking the test. some parents spoke out of the thompson center yesterday claiming administrators are making it uncomfortable for students who are opting out. >> they have the power to stop the intimidation and abuse and mistreatment. >> the test is required by the new child left behind act but since it is being replaced by two other tests next year, critics claim this round of testing is pointless and a waste of time. c p s says it's working to ensure a proper environment for students to take the test. according to some parents, but district made calls to stress the test is required by state and federal law. >> i am against it. i sent my daughter out of it because i am aware is not counting toward promotion or anything. >> the state board of education says the test provide a valuable data on how districts are ferrying in meeting higher benchmarks. this morning the test is supposed to be administered to all

he's the murder mayor. >> chicago teacher's union president karen lewis is mayor emanuel's most outspoken's the largest teacher strike this country has teen in two decades. >> in 2012, she led teachers out on a week-long strike and faced off with rahm emanuel. >> he's a liar. and a bully. >> this is the wrong choice for our children. >> it was a bitter fight. when it was over, both sides claimed victory. lewis and the teachers walked away with a better contract. and the mayor got his longer school day, and longer school year. >> do you feel you have won this strike? >> absolutely. >> you had a strike. i don't know, kids got a longer school day. >> hey, guys. how are you? >> hi! >> have you been quiet and patient? >> yes. >> better than the mayor, because i'm not quiet or patient. in that order. you know how any adult always says be careful with sharp objects? i was working somewhere and i was working with a sharp object, and i wasn't careful. i had a cut and i had to go to the doctor and a hospital for a while. so when somebody says, don't play with sharp objects, like doesn't your teache

because the teachers union -- not the teachers, but the teachers union, rudy, they don't care about theses, they never have. >> a big distinction. mayor bloomberg did a very good job here of creating these alternati alternatives. but if you look at the public school system itself, one could argue that it's a job protection system and not really a school system. since teachers get paid according to formulas that can't be varied, so if a teacher dawes good job, bad job, intermediate job, teachers who are alleged to have sexually abused children have to get paid for two, three, four years. it's primarily a job protection system. the charter school breaks you out of that system and puts the child and the parent at the forefront of the school. >> right. >> they've been enormously successful. we should be doing it for more of these children. the big argument they make is you can't do it for every child. well, i mean, the fact is, you help every child one at a time. and hopefully, ultimately these charter schools will point the way to a way in which we can recreate our public school system, make

too much of the argument against charter schools focuses, unfortunately, on the teachers union. e teachers union is certainly to blame for some of this. but the reason, the biggest reason the charter schools work, if you've been in them, if you go to them and focus on them, is that the parents fight to get their kids in the charter schools. if a lot of parents had the time or the ability to fight to make their public schools a little bit better, the public schools would be a bit better but charter schools are a terrific -- >> charter schools just, quite frankly, give freedom to educators that you don't have and the public schools and principals and to administrators and success is rewarded and failure is punished. we don't do that in our public schools. willie, that's why we spend more money in this country per pupil than any country in the world and our public schools continue to stuvemble. >> what is interesting about this is the mantle of the charter schools we are talking about here that were getting free rent approved by mayor bloomberg are being left intact. a small group r

the entire system for evaluating and protecting teacher rights based on a couple of students' perspective, i think really misses the boat. >> reporter: joshua is president of the california federation of teachers, one of the unions fighting the lawsuit. he says the union supports efforts to streamline the dismissal process. >> i think the process could be more effective and efficient. >> reporter: he said many ineffective teachers are weeded out during the two-year probation period. and he says granting permanent status to the rest encourages them to stay op the job, despite often difficult class roomd conditions. >> the bigger problem we have in california, and i think nationally, is that we can't keep teachers in the profession. classes are overcrowded. that really is a bigger issue in public education. that's creating conditions that make it attractive for people to make this a life-long profession. >> reporter: this 4th grade teacher in englewood, california, says she knows firsthand how precarious her job can be. she's been laid off three times in the last three years because she doesn't have enough seniority, then brought back. even though, she supports the seniority based layoff system. she said it's obje

i grew up in the bronx, but my mother was a public school teacher for 28 years and a union member but she worked extra jobs to send me to the catholic schools in the area, father, safer. >> by the way, he was the one that was in trouble, with me. >> it was safer and she knew i was going to get a better education there. i really don't understand where the leaders in my party are on this issue. they demonize the parents. and that is -- >> whoa, whoa, what doug is about to say here is really important. they're in the pocket of the unions. >> the pocket of the unions because charter schools work, and if we're going to be inclusive as a nation we have to use solutions like vouchers, charters, giving poor kids every opportunity like your mother gave you. >> and she -- >> she shouldn't have to do that. >> and your mom is a teacher and union member. stefano. >> battling the teacher's unions in the >> she is a democrat, listen -- >> that would empower them to make the best decisions, the mothers to get into the charter school have a right, it is a moral issue. not a left or right issue. >> the

after defending governor scott walker's stance against the teachers union, i was repeatedly insulted, not by my fellow students. by my teachers. i was called stupid. i was called weird. i was called a racist. by my teachers. when the story became a national issue my house was act. my inbox was full of disgusting profanity. i received anonymous death threats. i believe in the hard-line governor walker took in our state. i had to take a stand. [applause] why were so many people angry about scott walker's policy? it is because the mainstream media cover the uproar. they cover the protesters. they had failed to cover the reason for the chaos. they failed to cover the wisconsincrisis that wa was facing. it failed to cover how scott walker solved our deficit. doing this all without raising taxes. [applause] let's compare governor walker's response to the fiscal crisis to president obama's response to his national fiscal crisis. did face theer deficit. in three years, he turned that into a $1 billion surplus. [applause] he created 100,000 jobs. he did it all while lowering taxes on wisconsin

not the teachers unions or the mayor of new york city. liz macdonald is here. it's a ht topic. what do you make of this? >> i come from a familyf teachers. teachers in public schools. my mother and my grandmother. what sing is that children are crying, the parents are saying that they would rather homeschool their children now, those who are in charter schools and they are saying that if our kids are going to be taken out of the charter schools, we'd rather homeschool them, put them back in failing public schools where th are not learning to read or math or science. great rates are quadrupling. the performance rates for the kids are getti even better. neil: that is what the teachers union groups are afraid of because the numbers are that stark. >> yes, that is the word on the street. let's see the e-mails between the city council and bill de blasio's office going against the charter school. because this is being painted as a blood vendetta between bill de blasio. the e-mails need to be shown to the public on how they are using their personal city council committee to go after t

permanent status. >> reporter: what's more, the school district is standing united with the local teachers union. >> what we're asking for is not for the entire state to have the flexibility, one district, to have a little flexibility. >> reporter: flexibility the california teachers association, the parent union sees as problematic. they say extending tenure time would set a standard. the concerns are echoed by the california department of education which also opposes the local request. but that's not stopping san jose. >> we're not trying to send a message. we're not trying to create state-wide policy. we're trying to protect our members with the support of our district. and we think that we should be allowed to do that. >> we did reach out to the cta, but they said they were not able to do an interview. the state board of education will consider san jose's request in may. >>> now another hot button issue here. california parents realize they won't get a score this year. normally they find out how their school is doing academically. now the state is introducing new computerized tests this year

i think he did it for one reason only, the teacher's union. they hate the charter school and they got him elected. he did it purely for selfish reasons. >> well, we have tripled public school investment. the results have been flat to declining in some cases. it's clearly not the fact that public schools are missing money or charter schools are stealing money away from charter schools. they work that's why parents keep choosing them over and over again. >> it's the poor kids. the rich kids are going to schools that start with the. the something school. but these are poor kids trying to get a shot at education. >> either they are going to private schools or their parents are moving into expensive neighborhoods where they go to good public schools. everyone in new york city understands the game and the parents in harlem who want to get their kids out of public schools and in to something like success academy unfortunately have four less options today thanks to the mayor's actions. >> and the poor kids who are poor, who just want an education, thei

the exam. barbara byrd bennett sent a letter telling principles that she wants them to order teachers out of the building if they refuse to give the tests and the tips chicago teachers union supports the teachers and says its attorneys are gearing up for a fight. >>taking a look at the *other top stories this morning. robbery may have been the motive behind saturday's fatal shooting of a near north side business owner. herbert goode owned "silver cloud galleries," near state and ohio. he was shot at his company's factory facility on the southwest side. two witnesses say they saw a light blue car speeding away from the secne. the killer hasn't been caught. a truck driver from hanover park will be arraigned today, on multiple felony charges in the death of an illinois tollway employee on i-88. police say renato velasquez was driving for too long, with too little sleep, and with falsified records, when his rig crashed into a tollway vehicle and a state police car that had stopped to help a disabled vehicle. the crash killed vincent petrella, and injured a state trooper. early voting begins today, and some younger voters could be at the polls. a new law lets "17 year olds" re

-- >> she shouldn't have to do that. >> that's correct. >> and your mom's a teacher and union member. amazing. >> battling thes in the states that i do, it's a fundamental morality issue, not left and right. let me give you one statistic. 12% reading proficiency. we build jail cells based on reading proficiency. 88% of headed to jail based on that. >> tell him. >> school choice would empower parents to make the best decision so mothers don't have to work three and four jobs. they don't have to weep when they lose a lottery to get into the charter schools. it's not left or right. it's a moral issue. >> the democratic governor of new york, by the way, who doesn't want me here -- side note -- interestingly, he stood up for the charter schools this week, and he was right. now, he said he'll find a way to keep them open. listen to what basil said about his own mother, teacher in the union. >> i'll argue that they should stay here. but it's easy to be successful on education when you cherry pick the students that you want. if you have a small pool of the best students, very easy to be successful. >> whoa whoa. thes

level teachers have voted overwhelmingly in favor of industrial action over concerns about the government's proposed new junior cycling program members of the countries to post primary teachers' unions posted by eighteen eight percent in favor of the acts ten forty five percent of the sti members voted to the teachers' union in diamonds turner's was sixty two percent. the joke was swift number cafferty and connor cruise o'brien has the appeal was included in a new publication called the books that defined on and publications looks out the social and political history of run throughs this picture. russell interesting inclusions and exclusions justice brian funding instead laugh and think they discuss books the way of the peak to discuss politics with a pepper together a list of books station for the seventeenth century tuesday to find items seem to hear what the great irish folks were here but the great irish novels and of course the great irish novels the girls and very very important books ever. york is mostly non fiction ones here's a youtube social impact. all have need of something as defined eye and oftentimes in some way. many recent books cover topics also known to us from te

the teacher's union has now decided that they're going to stonewall the police investigation on this.e found in the teacher's lounge. >> tell me how it is not small town politics when there is no reason you can't put them on administrative leave. i'm not satisfied. point blank, i'm not satisfied. i want to know what is state law and what are your grounds for not putting these people on administrative leave. administrative leave. and everybody can disagree with good job! still runnng in the morning? yeah. getting your vegebles every day? when i can. [ bop ] [ male announcer ] could've had a v8. two full servings of vegetables for only 50 delicious calories. two full servings of vegetables she loves a lot of it's what you love about her. but your erectile dysfunction - that could be a question of blood flow. cialis tadalafil for daily use helps you be ready anytime the moment's right. you can be more confident in your ability to be ready. and the same cialis is the only daily ed tablet approvedo treat ed and symptoms obph, like needing to go frequently or urgently. tell your doctor abou

. >> the flipside of this and you know this is that there are a lot of folks who blame the teachers unions and it is teachers' fault that we are in this mess. >> we need to create a system that works for almost all the teachers to succeed. that is a scalable system. we can just say it is just that -- the michael jordan teachers we need. it is scalable. that is the premise. from the researcher does not say that the number one thing you need to do is get rid of the very bottom. you need to get rid of those. that is one of the five things you need to do which i call the roadblock teachers. that is -- everyone is focused in on that. that is one of the things. our primary thing is making sure that 97% of the teachers working can succeed. gap.osing the i am not against the unions. there is no research that what thetenure, results of tenure after two or three years. one of the cool things about the research is that you can't fire a teacher. everyone hurts their class in the first three years. even michael jordan teachers do not do much in the first three years. it is after that that that you can

the teacher's union has now decided that they're going to stonewall the police investigation on this. needles were found in the teacher's lounge. >> tell me how it is not small town politics when there is no reason you can't put them on administrative leave. i'm not satisfied. point blank, i'm not satisfied. i want to know what is state law and what are your grounds for not putting these people on administrative leave. and everybody can disagree with me. my kids are important to me. re. re. while a body in motion tends to stay in motion. staying active can actually ease arthritis symptoms. but if you have arthritis, staying active can be difficult. prescription celebrex can help relieve arthritis pain so your body can stay in motion. because just one 200mcelebrex a day can provide 24 hour relief for ny with arthritis pain d inflammation. plus, in clinical studies, celebrex is proven to improve daily physical function celeex can be taken with or without food. and it's not a narcotic. you and your doctor should balance the benefits with the risks. all prescription nsaids, like celebrex,

teachers say they know the risk. they will punish any teacher refuses to his minister the exam and consider it an act of insubordination. the teachers' union calls it upsurge. at the same time taking these threats seriously. despite the threats at least one teacher says she is not deterred. >> we know that they are controlled by the mayor. he believes people. they see no compelling reason for the task. it is not a bad school. they are getting good grades. why for somethinforce something that does not help them? >> i believe my child. my child feels a lot of stress. about 40 teachers announced early last week that they would boycott the exam. they are giving away some valuable instructional time. they're not using the results for grade promotion. friday several teachers announced they too will refuse to give the test. the state require students to take the illinois standards achievement test. the chieftains to strip teachers to boycott of their teaching license. she urges them to have a contingency plan in place. some had to disagresome teachers disagree. >> they're brainwashing our children. they're telling them if you do not take the test

down because they don't have near as much money as the public schools and you were nice but the teachers unionlay in this. the teachers union has campaigned against charter schools from day one and they have campaigned against performance standards from day one. i got to get out. thank you very much. this is an incredible injustice. >>> now it was a wild up and down ride on wall street today. stocks slugged off a big gdp revision and some other bad news but the ukraine reports almost killed the whole rally. we'll talk about that next up on kudlow. when you order the works you want everything. an expert ford technician knows your car's health depends on a full, complete checkup. the works. because when it comes to feeling safe behind the wheel, going the distance and saving at the pump you want it all. get our multi-point inspection with a a synthetic blend oil change, tire rotation, brake inspection and more for $29.95 or less. get a complete vehicle checkup. only at your ford dealer. oh, there's a prize, all right. [ male announcer ] inside every box of cheerios are those great-tasting little

i think he's kowtowing to the teachers unions. there's no fiscal reason to do this. there's every reason -- the standard test scores are 85% to 90% for the kids in the schools versus about 70% in schools where they're going to go to. charter schools have to be the alternative. you have to give it up, teachers unions. >> why not find a way, from a business perspective if you're the mayor, find a way that's working like that and expand it rather than shut it down. >> bob is right. going directly back to the people who voted for him and probably fnlss his campaign and said i'm going to push back on the charter schools because i owe you, unions. teachers unions, especially, but bob, listen to what you said. if it's working, if the charter schools are outperforming the public schools. maybe we should look at it. guess what? they're outperforming -- they're outperforming the public schools. >> the only problem with charter schools is they're expanded to places where they have a good public school system. >> so then what? don't do it there because a charter school would outp

the mayor, however, has the very powerful teachers union behind him because the charter schools don'tver since charter schools were established and made legal. >> so is this payback from the teachers union? >> i won't say payback. i will say that the teachers union is very happy if de blasio limits the number of charter schools out there. >> okay. >> all right. to be continued for sure. thank you, don >>> some of the world's biggest tech companies are fighting to sit in your car. apple, google and even blackberry put new technology on four wheels. but is it a safety threat? that's coming up next on "cbs this morning." next on "cbs this morning." ♪ baby you can drive my car guess i'm gonna be a star ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ new hershey's spreads. bring the delicious taste of hershey's chocolate to anything - everything - you can imagine. explore the endless possibilities of the delicious chocolate taste that only hershey's can deliver. with new hershey's spreads, the possibilities are delicious. [ john sarrouf ] it's our mission at the family dinner project to support families in getting back to the ta

family that is in the paper there, there was an article, in the chronicle but also this is the teacher's union paper where we also carry that story. and if you have not heard the testimony from salia about what happened when he was burned out and then all of a sudden had to find a new place, i urge you to look it up and hear it. tonight you have heard from two para professionals who cannot buy a home in san francisco and they can no longer afford to rent an apartment in our city. we have had another para in our office just today who is homeless, and is trying to balance his responsibilities to children, with the need to simply survive. the median home in san francisco now costs $925,000. the median home. apartments are soaring into more than $3,000, the average teacher makes $62,000, the average para professional makes $25,000. housing can easily take up all the money a para can make. easily, half if they are careful. a teacher contributing 40 percent of his or her income can afford less than half with the median home costs. 450,000. teachers and paras who have to commute, spend less time work

8 thun,000 in contributions. >> there's no greater contributor than american politics than the teacher's unionigger contributor. >> new york state the charter lob brie hit everyone. coming up will you watching the show now you can via the droem. will government effect this service, too. thing else. it works, simple as that. it's a natural source of fiber and 5 essential vitamins. it's the smart choice for me. try sunsweet's amazing juices and new amazing prune light. ladabout constantly beingive blanear one of these?y then it's time to take control with a free two week trial of over-the-counter oxytrol for women patches. when you go online or call 1-800-682-2614. are you ready to live with less frequency, urgency and accidents? two free weeks could help you get started. so don't wait. take control with oxytrol for women. go online or call 1-800-682-2614. ♪ ♪ ♪ >> suppose you are in a remote area and suddenly you have a beer. it would be great if they could deliver it via drone. this could id happen. the technology is here. bullies in the federal government said this must stop. why? adam oh who

the public school kids. 13,000 parents on a waiting list. john: you are a democrat who doesn't like her. your father is a union leader and you have a bias against people who criticize the teachersso you say that she is pushing these people out? she gets the same money that the other schools that do badly dead. she gets money. she has no power to push anybody. >> that's simply not true. we talk about this again. >> arcade is bare and 15% are homeless. 20% have high special needs. >> she picked by lottery. >> the lottery is a sham and then she moves them out. john: okay when you talk about the kids, it's half the kids df traditional public schools. you have a lifeline with some of these charter schools including some of these. and all of these schools are serving kids and otherwise it they wouldn't get the services that they need. we ne to stop this us versus them attitude. we need to do what is best for kids. >> this fifth-grade class that she tabbed as number one in the state, this class that would be pushing out special needs kid, back class started out with 100 kids. how many kids are left today in a 51. would he think of the other 49 when we met one thing they are gone? beca

i think he's kowtowing to the teachers unions. there's no fiscal reason to do this. ason -- the standard test scores are 85% to 90% for the kids in the schools versus about 70% in schools where they're going to go to. charter schools have to be the alternative. you have to give it up, teachers unions. >> why not find a way, from a business perspective if you're the mayor, find a way that's working like that and expand it rather than shut it down. >> bob is right. going directly back to the people who voted for him and probably fnlss his campaign and said i'm going to push back on the charter schools because i owe you, unions. teachers unions, especially, but bob, listen to what you said. if it's working, if the charter schools are outperforming the public schools. maybe we should look at it. guess what? they're outperforming -- they're outperforming the public schools. >> the only problem with charter schools is they're expanded to places where they have a good public school system. >> so then what? don't do it there because a charter school would outperform a public

and union members consider a change to the status quo a career threat. >> you have a sizable chunk of the democratic party who have moved away from the allegiance to the teachers unions and are saying it's time to look at delivererables and metrics when assessing education reform and what's best for our kids. >> once in lock step with teachers unions education reforms the left is increasingly split over charter schools as more parents and even potential presidential candidates call it an idea whose time has come. >> thank you. >>> bad news for two potential presidential candidates tonight. the latest fox news poll has a steep decline for new jersey governor chris christie. only 24% believe now he would make a good president. twice that amount think he would not. there's a slight drop-off for hillary clinton. 50% approval, down five points from last year. why would the cia spy on the senate intelligence committee? >>> first, why does the obama administration want to spend twice as much as necessary to treat cancer patients? when jake and i first set out on our own, we ate anything. but in time you realize the bett you eat, the better you feel. these days we bot

he hates the idea that under his watch some people can work harder and get a better education because the unions, the teacher'sbecause they're making a sacrifice and they may actually end up at princeton or harvard or yale, or the university of chicago, and they did it in spite of his best efforts to keep everybody at the same level. >> one of the issues is one of the top-performing schools in the state, in except perhaps math and science, it is in harlem. he wanted to get rid of it. and only now under the public outcry is he saying i will find another place or another solution. >> here is the problem, his predecessor, mayor bloomberg, entered into a contract with the schools, these are tough schools to get into. the parents have to scrape the money together to get in. and it is a lottery, very difficult to get in. >> but if you can get in, it is golden. >> absolutely, you can get a terrific education and you can get ahead. bloomberg said, i like this idea so much, you will get the building for nothing because you're relieving us of the obligation for that contract. >> he says i'm worried about all students, n

the labor unions. the chamber of commerce. the teachers union. biggest donor there is. s are the people writing the checks. they have the power in sacramento. >> your a campaign consultant. do you work with democrats? you've gone around the country. something like this, a reform package or even politicians taking gifts how much impact does it have on voters? >> very little impact on voters. because voters already factored in, largely unfairly to be fair to our political friends and clients, but voters have already decided that politicians are on the take or that politicianing are sexual predators or that they live in a world aside from our own world. it's not news to them that politicianing -- politicians are misbehaving. they factored this in and largely ignore this kinds of news. >> state senator jerry hill has a package of what may be real reforms as well. that include, not allowing money to go into nonprofits that are run by your wife or -- and also reporting those junkets, who really pays for them. it will be interesting to see how far his package gets. >> we need s

the regime of augusto pinochet. >> in argentine 3 million students head back to school when a walk out by teachers end. the teachers union called off a 17-day strike agreeing to a pay rise of 30%. the union rejected an early proposal. while teachers return to the classroom, in strike is on in other provinces. >> it's been a soggy blustery day across the north-east and north-west. two systems making their way across the country. dusty winds across the north-east. and we are dealing with that, in addition to a bit of rain across portions of the coast, from main all the way to portions of new york. now, the nicest weather across the country was across the plains, minneapolis down to houston. temperatures in the '60s, and '70s. the change is on the way. there's a front getting ready to push through, bringing scattered showers across portions of montana. it will make its way into minnesota, and temperatures where it's 50 degrees in minneapolis, but will reach a high of 38 as the front pushes through on monday, it will dump 4-6 inches of snow. look for a rapid freeze up and icy spots as texture go down to the teens. we push to