and what was tim kaine doing, just taking personal shots. ve to remember, the clinton/kaine ticket is marketing themselves as the adults in the room. if you're the adult in the room, you won't interrupt 77 times and act like a snide little child. >> we're going to have to leave it there, thank you for being with us this morning. i think we can all agree there were more insults than anyone wanted last night. >> interesting to hear the spin the next day. >> it is. even at 4:37 in the morning. >> exactly. >> we asked which candidate you thought made the best case for their ticket. here are some of your responses. tom tweets, i think pence made the best case, articulate in his responses and acted civil and kaine came off as road. jim says, now you see why trump picked mike for vp and lori an undecided independent said kaine used all the clinton dirty tricks and talking points ad nauseam. and sandy posting, no question at all it was mr. pence, kaine acted like a 5-year-old spoiled brat. keep your comments coming. >> time is 38 after the hour. dona

tim kaine said that a lot. he seemed to get under mike pence's skin a little bit listen to this. >> senator, you looked at that mexican thing again. >> can you defend that? >> look, there are criminal aliens in this country, tim, who have come into this country illegally who are perpetrating violence. >> you want to use a brush against mexico? >> he also said many of them were good people. >> it seemed like he tried to get that mexican thing trending on twitter. he was trying to make it happen. it gets to the bigger question, how much do vice presidential debates matter? that happened last night, tens of millions of people watched. what effect does it have on the race? >> well, they do matter. let me just explain it this way. give you a pathway of what i think you're getting at john and i agree with is that, it does matter. first of all if you go to the poll last night, and you dig deep into the numbers when those who watched the debate who participated in our poll were asked do you think that tim kaine could b

>> tim kaine. my father speaks from the heart and i'm so proud of what my father has accomplished and he's done an unbelievable job and we're going to win come november 8th, no question about it. >> eric trump, appreciate it. jeff zeleny, you've got a special guest, as well. >> i do, i'm here with the chair of the clinton campaign, john pedesta. did you think senator kaine came across as the more well-liked candidate? >> he did a good job explaining what he and hillary wanted to do for the american people and how to build an economy that'll work for the middle class, not just everyone at the top. he was strong on reproductive choice and he challenged governor pence to defend the kind of hateful campaign that donald trump has run and time and again, governor pence took a dive. >> and you said though that he didn't have a smooth performance. double governor pence was simply not taking the bait that senator kaine was throwing out? >> no, i think he -- he essentially had made a decision that he would n

did -- was tim kaine right to bring it up again and again and again? or are we just tired of hearing about it? >> timecaps job was pretty estimate tell -- sim kaine's job was to remind the viewers, at every moment, that things that trump has said and done that are very difficult to defend. and as we discussed pence had a very difficult time, sometimes clearly avoided answering those questions. mike pence's job was not only to deflect but try to bring it back. he sounded like trying to shoehorn in the e-mail server in an unrelated question. oh, make sure to get that in. and the clinton foundation, make sure you shoehorn that in. but pence also did at the very beginning he tried to do it again at the end tried to get it in there at other points, this is about strength, this is about putting america back on track. this message of change, things aren't going well. if you want continuity of the bad things that are happening now, then go ahead vote for hillary clinton. if you wanted to go change you want strength, come with us but that was hard to do when it

what did tim kaine do? >> reporter: well we know he and his team have been tight-lipped 5b9d the way he's been preparing but he's been preparing in his hometown of richmond, virginia. as well as in raleigh, north carolina. a chance to get away and prepare intensely. but he too has been sitting at a table, as we'll see him tonight, sitting with mike pence and the moderator during this debate. and playing mike pence in these preparations is bob barnett. washington super lawyer and agent who's spent ten cycles now helping candidates prepare for debates. mosten recently he played bernie sanders for hillary clinton in the primaries and tim kaine has described barnett as extremely tough in the preparations and also karen dunn and ron klain who been helping hillary clinton out. they have been leading her debate preparations so that's taken a pause to help out tim kaine and really helping him in a kind of debate that even he says is a little different than he is used to. he's debated but he's normally been asking v

tim kaine looked unhinged.o, i think just that the demeanor of mike pence would do a lot to calm people. i think tim kaine hurt hillary's team. i thought hillary was the most unlikable politician until i saw tim kaine last night. i think he lapped her. >> wow, congressman, these are strong words. unhinged. what is a moment that you thought tim kaine was unhinged? >> well, when he kept yapping about trump's taxes and then making up things that he took donald trump's words out of context. >> such as? >> even at the end there he said he wants to deport 16 million immigrants in the first 100 days. >> daonald trump never said the first 100 days but he did talk about a deportation during the primary, congressman. >> what he was speaking about was the immigration control group and what he said at the end is that we're going to secure the wall, secure the borders and build a wall and make sure that we deport the criminal elements and then we'll deal with those who are currently, lawfully, you know, living by our laws,

going into tonight, the big debate was like many people were going we don't know much about tim kainece. >> well that's what i used to think trevor, but then i went out to interview actual americans. and it turns out no one knows anything about mike kaine and tim pence. >> tevor: i think you switched names. >> after the vice presidential debate half of the voters had never heard of mike pence or tim kaine. i went through new york city to slap some fives and get 4911 on their names. do you know houthis guys are. >> someone's grandpa or dads. >> who are these two guys. >> don't know, don't care. >> a couple white guys, who knows the difference, huh. more like sleeping. nobody knows and why should we care. it's not like vp's do anything way. what does the vice president even do? >> nothing basically. >> do you know anything about mike pence's policies. >> no, not a bit, not a bit. >> do you think it's matters. >> no. >> what is the big difference between these two guys. >> one has white hair and one has dark hair. >> can you name these vice presidential candidates. >> oh my goodness. >>

tim kaine's strategy tonight. what is it? >> tim kaine's strategy tonight, wolf, a couple things. one, continue the argument or try to continue the argument, against donald trump that has been playing out over the last three days or so about his tax returns and what was in them. he will continue to prosecute sort of all of that. but i think it's something else as well. it is to get some voters comfortable, try to get them comfortable with hillary clinton herself. with her honesty, trustworthiness. his double task tonight, if you will, is to take on donald trump in ways that she has and keep this momentum alive. one thing about vice presidential debates that can be interesting, they can keep things going, or they can sort of halt things. republicans would love for the script to be flipped a little tonight. it's tim kaine's job to make sure that does not happen. >> and the jim acosta, what about mike pence? reverse a tough week for donald trump? >> right. mike pence has been described as trump's explainer in chief, the way that barack obama had bill clinton as his explainer in chief

i don't know that tim kaine was the needle much. but it seemed like mike pence was going out there and sounding steady and sane. if you take about substance over style. his style is very smooth. he was not rattled. there was only a couple times when it came to taxes. when it came to something else that is escaping me right now. >> too early. >> it's too early, actually. >> the e-mails. the e-mails, jackie? >> no. >> he went back and forth about the taxing and about the e-mails where he was really starting to get into it when they moved topics. >> well right, i think that was one of the other problems last night. they weren't sort of allowed to play out some of these arguments. we won't ever know what happened. >> although it was better than the last format. it was very interesting. they got to sit next to each other. you got your time. but then they were able to kind of go at it. and that was really fruitful on a couple situations that deserved layers. there was one incident last night, mark preston, that showed why pence didn't wan

and tim kaine decided to make his debate strategy to talk about donald trump and things that donald trump has said and done. and over and over governor pence refused or declined to defend the things that kaine, tim kaine, quite accurately, for the most part, said that donald trump had said or done. so while on the stage, i think you to give it to governor pence, i wonder what the media coverage is going to be like over the next day or two as people go tamover and over thin that tim kaine said donald trump said he said, and mike pence declined to defend him. so i think the night goes to pence, but i don't know about the week. wolf this. >> all right. jake, dana, what was your major take away? >> i think one man's declining to defend donald trump is another's not taking the bait, and that's what mike pence tried to avoid over and over again, not taking the bait. that made him kind of thein to donald trump's yang. he prepared and stayed calm and refused to give into what tim kaine was trying to do. he looked into the camera to try to connect with people at home. the question is will it matte

you saw tim kaine 64 times interrupting.

tim kaine/(d) vice presidential nominee)"play by the rules." pence doesn't have eyebrows" read another tweet. tweet.(jeanne moos/cnn national correspondent)"the democrats definitely don't think kaine's eyebrows are lowbrow."they flaunt them on t-shirts...kaine himself instagrammed a pumpkin with an arched brow last halloween. (sen. tim kaine/(d) vice presidential nominee)"i have an uncontrollable left eyebrow."he once gave jon stewart a button. an eyebrow raising debate may be a distraction but how bad can it be being compared to spock and the rock.(sen. tim kaine/(d) vice presidential nominee)"he trash talks."jeanne moos(sen. vice presidential nominee) "there's a better way."new york 3 3 3 3 still ahead this morning--- ?prepaid? crackdown.the 'new rules' for people who use the cards... and how they're keeping your money even safer... 3 and - why is badgers star frank kaminsky eating skittles.. in the bathtub?the answer when we come back. 3 3 3 a live look over.....on the storms. rain totals less than 1". warm with highs in the lower 70s. wind:

does tim kaine -- how does tim kaine defend against that?> well, i think there's an overriding situation here that we can't overlook. there will be specific ways each candidate will attack, but overall we're looking at extreme versus mainstream. between trump as being extreme, hillary being mainstream. believe me, it carries to their vice presidential running mates. when you look at mike pence, he got a zero from retired americans because he wanted to end social security and medicare, as we know it. he's the one who started the planned parenthood craziness with shutdowns. he started that. he signed a horrible law in indiana as governor which would have destroyed businesses there, when tim kaine was governor, five out of six years virginia was rated the top state for business. in the last year, it was the second top state. so, i think you're going to see that reflected. frankly, i know tim kaine very well. served on the sam committee with him, foreign relations. he's kind, thoughtful. he's highly respected by republicans and democrats alike.

kasie: the idea that they are trying to print tim kaine to be an attack talk -- trying to prep tim kaine be an attack dog. using his mr. nice guy persona to relate to the audience while also not letting up on mike pence. much more is a disciplined person to go after than donald trump. [laughter] i think mike pence is digging into tim kaine's gubernatorial records in a way that voters may not expect to hear what he did when he was in charge. i think they will use that to say that tim kaine would have raised taxes. mike pence, taxes have gone down in indiana -- the kind of argument. employment numbers. trying to find things about tim kaine that they can attach to the larger narrative about what trump wants to accomplish. both both these clinton is wanted run.y good the polls are in a very good direction. do you have a sense of what their current concerns are? kasie: their current concerns are that they are trying to sever losses with white working-class men. in these battleground states like ohio, predominantly not african-american areas like ohio. she's not necessarily talking about this

how effective was tim kaine? sent a video monitor to sit in the seat and play back loops of donald trump saying appalling or shock or con founding things. that's what kaine was there to do, was to repeat, repeat, repeat. it was like he had so many talking points and sound bites in his head he was afraid he wasn't going to get them all out. martha: it was very apparent that they were practiced lines. you are supposed to internalize those lines and make them feel like they are just coming out of your mind. >> hillary clinton had a few lines like that in her debate. pence is good at deflecting and not answering questions. we are here journalists praising people for people to defeat questions. martha: objecquestions.. temperature. >> he was able to deliver them with the appearance, i was just sitting here, it's interesting, and now, blah, blah, blah blah blah. martha: thank you very much, chris stirewalt. bill: a bit later we'll talk to wisconsin governor scott walker. he played tim kaine in rehearsals. when pence was

wade which is the stated position if you're pro life. >> not tim kaine. >> tim kaine said mike pence and donald trump wants to overturn it. >> sounds it. >> they do. >> you have a supreme court seat open so they can appoint someone. it was interesting to me that kaine didn't go there because he said this. and there's a seat that's being open right now that is on the line. >> because that works for my team. >> that works for both. >> the conservatives. conservatives think it works for them. how can they be wrong? they think they win on the supreme court issue? >> i think pro choice voters don't want roe overturned. >> women will give pause as i was by mike pence's answer. i thought he was thoughtful in explaining his faith. when he was explaining his personal faith, i thought that was the best personal moment for him, the last five minutes. the one thing planned parenthood can use is when they said a woman should be forced to bring a child to term so they can adopt. >> the life philosophy, the value wins. it's the law issue that the choice people -- >> always the law because that's wha

tim kaine, shut up.ere comes mike pence, well, what about deplorables, why are you always so negative and why is the campaign this way, let's stay on issue. i think on substance, he won hands down. >> who is behind you? >> that would be eric trump. >> hi, eric. honestly, it's why my father picked him. he's poised out there, he was composed. he's amazing. he's incredibly articulate. he was calming in so many ways but he also led with tremendous strength. >> the interruptions, what did you think about that? >> i found them a little annoying quite frankly sitting up front. i thought it was a little rude. >> critics are saying tim kaine interrupted too much. >> i think he had points he wanted to make and he wasn't going to let falsehood just lay on the table. when he thought there was something worth correcting or there was something that was worth interjecting, he did it and he did a aggressively. >> kelly anne, what did you think? >> an amazing night for governor mike pence. he was affable and genial. unli

interjectionse were a weakness for trunk, why were they a strength for tim kaine. >> mike pence continued to change the positions in the playbook. he refused to defend donald trump on issues and senator kaine was trying to push him to provide concrete answers as to --ther he supported in hand and believed in the things donald trump has said and done and then with russia in particular, he made up a new position. he talked about how hillary has spent three decades or more of her life fighting for kids with families and that americans can trust her to do that. i think donald trump is very frustrated right now. because he, i think senator king did a great job challenging his statements, challenging his record, challenging his policy positions and mike pence let them all breeze past them. >> are you worried that people who just tuned in may have seen a republican in both of them come across as more polished than perhaps in the next hour for both events? success in this debate for the trunk campaign was from mike pence to successfully defend donald trump's and physicians and change the race. yo

tim kaine was reciting his brief. pence was reciting his brief. >> the moderator. >> and nobody was talking to anybody else. >> and they all had their own thing-tsh. >> editors. >> and no one is listening to anyone. everyone is ranting. and at end -- well you go to the bar. but this whole thing, hillary clinton got herself three to six points ahead by driving his basic bullying really of a woman for weight gain. and it was barely mentioned except in the context you both described. i missed it. she is where she is because she sustained an attack and he helped her for tweeting about it for six days and he didn't mention it tonight. >> editors are great people. i love editor. an editor would have taken that phrase and sort of -- >> highlighted it. put it at the end of sentence instead of the middle. >> so it wasn't just about shooting himself in the foot but what he did to miss universe. not sort of the other thought to it. and that would have kind of paste it somewhere else in the debate. so you heard it and it stood ou

joe johns reporting. >>> now to tim kaine. virginia's tim kaine. who will be debating on home turf. the white house said president obama will be watching at least a portion of the debate tonight. he and senator kaine, as you might know, are good friends. jeff zeleny has been following debate preps on the democratic side for us. he is joining us now. jeff, what has tim kaine been doing today in these final hours before the debate? >> reporter: wolf, one thing he's been doing is simply relaxing. one aide said he's done all the preparations he needs to do and was simply relaxing. he visited a civil rights museum this afternoon here in farmville, virginia. his parents are visiting from kansas city, they are 're with . he is getting ready for this moment. wolf, the clinton and kaine campaign know this moment is absolutely essential. they want to continue the momentum started at that first presidential debate. and tim kaine is going to simply pick up exactly where hillary clinton left off and going to prosecute the argument against mike pence. so he has been studying up. he actually spent

tim kaine in the senate. tim kaine, the dnc chair.can't expect that they will be fighting amongst that tonight, you know, when we see them on the stage. >> and they both pride themselves on being nice as well as not name calling. so we'll see what happens when they're under the white-hot glare of the spotlight. gentlemen, thanks so much for talking this through with us. great to talk to you. >>> well, libertarian presidential candidate gary johnson holding steady in the polls despite several high-profile gaffes. can his ticket make a move or even swing this election? we're going to speak with him live next. >> there he is. >> hi, governor. talk to you in a minute. ♪ ♪ jon batiste has mastered new ways to play old classics. with chase atms, he can master new ways to deposit checks too. easy to use chase technology for whatever you're trying to master. upgrade your phone system and learn how you could save at vonage.com/business "yyou just double thetchen's great. heyheat--right?" somethig to cook faster, "no reason." "hey mom, for laun

flip it back on tim kaine.endentlot of voters just as frustrated with hillary clinton as they are with donald trump. it is a lesser of two evils argument. if mike pence can normalize it and make senator tim kaine look awkward, it would be a good night for the trump campaign. >> is his only job tonight to not make that big mistake, or will he try to hit hard against donald trump? some of the things he said about women against the last week -- what will be his message? >> those are the two things he will have to do. he will have to hit back when he is attacked, and make sure every time there is an attack on the dingy parries it and quickly pivots to donald trump for the things he said. he wants to make sure donald trump bad week continues. the tax returns, the trump foundation, and all the things trump has seen in terms of bad headlines. tim kaine will try to keep those going. >> that is putting it mildly. >> some voters don't even know who these two guys are. do they want to keep it personal, or will it be very

look at tim kaine's job tonight.i'm sure somebody on the clinton campaign has made the point to him, look, keep provoking donald trump. question his business acumen. go after him on the things that it is impossible for him to be restrained on responding to. and hey, good news, he's going to be live tweeting. he's going to have his phone in his hand during this debate. and so when we look at the first debate, we saw a premeditated deliberate strategy by secretary clinton to say when i attack donald trump on these things, it will melt him down. he does not have the capacity to not respond to it. like a labrador retriever who will chase the tennis ball when you throw it and bring it back, donald trump will respond to provocations on his business record, on his competence time and time again. i think mike pence has a very difficult job tonight. mike pence is going to have to answer questions about donald trump's comportment, about his temperament, about his capacity to be commander in chief when he's up at 3:00, 4:00, 5:

we're just hours away from mike pence and tim kaine's big evening here in farmville. the most high-profile stage either vp nomination has taken. in order for kaine to win, he needs to put pence on defense, forcing pence to own donald trump's controversial comments. joining me is brian fallon. i know it's a big night for your main man with tim kaine, but he has to get out there and talk about hillary clinton's record. we know mike pence will be going after him with hillary clinton's e-mails, the suggestion by certain republicans that the fbi and attorney general gave her a pass and what they perceive as criminal behavior and about clinton's stamina and health. is kaine prepared to take all of that on? >> yes, thomas, we expect all of that and then some probably. but i think the challenge tonight is going to be on mike pence. usually in these vice presidential debates, what the public is looking for is to see, are these people that can step into the shoes of the president if, god forbid, the worst happens and they have to assume the job. but in this case, the questions o

the day she chose tim kaine. she was beyond giddy. she was just happy. and she had somebody she could totally depend upon as a partner, and i think it was the best decision of her campaign in the sense of you couldn't get a republican the say anything bad about him. in washington and the toxicity to, have somebody like tim kaine. so i think his job again is going to be to explain her, defend her, whatever, but i just remind people, tim kaine in 2007 at virginia tech, and i have never seen anybody handle a situation after the tragedy of 32 people being murdered by a deranged person with a gun. and i've never seen anybody handle it better. >> ifill: michael gerson, the vice presidential debate, do they ever help or are they more likely to hurt? >> they're often memorable. they're seldom consequential to determine the outcome. this is a strange one, though, in a certain way. not strange men, but it's a strange circumstance where the republic might be better served and a lot of people might agree that both tickets co

>> tim kaine can point out the flaws but they're not laying out the vision for manager. 11% think that hillary clinton is honest and trust worthy. there is no clinton-kaine plan. we're more in debt than ever before. more people living in poverty. they have to answer it. they were part of the communication. >> or you may have missed the recession. >> now we're blaming it eight years on bush? >> i listened to you. let me finish. >> a lot of things happened over the last few years but unemployment is at 4.9%. there are 20 to 25 million more people who have health care now than ever before. that's what president obama did. the country is moving in the right zpreks this team has plans. >> all right. a quick break. tonight's debate fast approaching, a cnn reminder. i'll be moderating from washington university in st. louis. coverage begins at 4:00 people eastern right here on sunday. >>> just ahead, mike pence. and now...i'm in bristol, inia. tennessee. on this side of the road is virginia... and on this side it's tennessee. no matter which state in the country you live in, you could save hu

tim kaine, mike pence. one would assume, hallie jackson, mike pence will spend the better part of the evening cleaning up a bit. they don't see eye to eye, him and things like nafta, muslim ban, to name a few. how is he going to explain those positions? >> here's three things. number one, play clean-up. one of our colleagues said earlier today, he needs a mop and a bucket to address donald trump's controversies. pence has done that throughout this campaign and will have to do that tonight on this sort of huge national stage for him. two, he's got to explain the policy differences. you mentioned nafta, the muslim ban, the birther issue and the release of taxes which mike pence put out that even though donald trump has not. potentially most faithful ally on the campaign trail and backed him every step of the way yet the two have still split and i think pence plays a role in reassuring republicans here. remember why he was put in the ticket to say to the establishment, listen, i've got you. not going to put an

that's what a lot of observers saw but there was one moment where tim kaine appeared to get under pence'snear the end of the debate after senator kaine for about the fourth time highlighted donald trump's past comments about mexican immigrants. >> when donald trump says women should be punished or mexicans are rapists or criminals or john mccain's not a hero, he is showing you who he is. >> senator, you whipped out that mexican thing again. >> here with us now, cnn political commentator angela rye, former executive director of the congressional black caucus and steve cortez, member of donald trump's national hispanic advisory council. steve, what is that mexican thing? >> the mexican thing is this. that the left and our opponents in this race continue to try to paint donald trump as a racist and the reason they are doing that i think twois two-fold. the reason they are doing that is they are the candidacy of the status quo. two, when you are bankrupt and don't have ideas for growth and security, what do you do? this is typical of the democratic playbook. they go back to name calling, smea

tim kaine and mike pence sparring over issues.ke pence finding different ways to fend off the attacks. >> hitting back with hillary clinton and questioning her record and trustworthness. now only four days until the next presidential debate and 34 days until the election. we have it all covered for you. let's begin with phil mattingly in virginia. good morning, phil. >> good morning, alisyn. no surprise what both candidates were trying to do last night heading into the debate. for tim kaine, make it all about donald trump. for mike pence, really present a calm, steady hand on the ticket. that, that they did. but in a calm, steady way? not so much. >> you are donald trump -- >> hotly contentious from the start. >> i can't imagine how governor pence can defend the insult-driven, selfish me style of donald trump. >> reporter: the vice presidential debate becoming a night of whose candidate is more insulting. >> you and hillary clinton would know a lot about an insult-driven campaign. >> reporter: tim kaine repeatedly putting mike pen

tim kaine in the membrane tim kaine in the brain ? ? tim kaine in the membrane tim kaine >> i know! >> james: that would be absolutely incredible. shouldn't he do it? >> i know! >> we'll see what happens tomorrow night. >> james: i'd love that so much. >> before you all start doing that-- >> what? warn you? >> yeah, because i didn't-- >> you think he warned me, man? it's all for one out here. >> james: oh, you want to join in? okay. ? tim kaine in the membrane. >> tim kaine in the brain. >> james: don't do it like that. >> how much more warning could you get? >> james: if you're going to do it like that-- ? tim kaine in the brain! >> it's old now. like, i wanted to be in on the hip, now. you know, i was born in '89. >> why are you blaming me, jimmy butler? >> somebody has to take the blame. >> james: now, when you are going to meet the v.p., do you have to get checked out with secret service? >> yeah, it was crazy. so it was at this fund-raiser in colorado. and they made everyone leave the house and then they-- the secret service like-- went through the entire house and then they br

tim kaine that when a running mate is supposed to do. he defended secretary clinton's record and policies. eastern with her and challenged donald trump. mike pence was a wall on everyone of those. >> you don't think senator kaine interrupted too much of a lot of the discussion? you don't think donald -- senator kaine did too much of that? was frustrating was as i was saying earlier, governor pence would make up entirely new policy positions. on syria, he had policy contrary to what donald trump had suggested in the past. they completely new policy on russia. into ron kirk commercial remarks, yet nothing to say on top questions intimate assertions that were not true and senator mccain was making sure to correct the record. we were seeking to understand how michael pence good possibly defend some of these reprehensible remarks donald trump has that. the erratic actions. he cannot do that. >> you have argued does not have the temperament, and you think mike pence's temperament was a contrast to donald trump's or not? >> i think both senator

senator tim kaine?> you have to be tough on rush yachlt let's start by not praising putin as a great leader. donald trump and mike pence have said he's a great leader. and donald trump has -- >> no, we haven't. >> and donald trump has business dealings with russia that he refuses to disclose. hillary clinton has gone toe to toe with russia. she went toe to toe with russia as secretary of state to do the new start agreement to reduce russia's nuclear stockpile. she had the experience doing it. she went toe to toe with russia a and lodged protests. we put punishing economic sanction onz russia that we need to continue. donald trump on the other hand didn't know that russia had invaded the cry mee yachlt he said russia is the not going into the ukraine. they went into the crimea two years before. hillary clinton has gone toe to toe with russia to work out a deal on new start. she got them engaged in a meaningful way to cap iran's nuclear weapons program and yet she stood up to them on issues such as syria

and clearly tim kaine had a strait strategy.nto a fight over donald trump's record. this was not a debate about issues. this was not a debate about the two men on stage. it was about the outside personalities of their running mates. neither of the running mates spent a lot of time defending their respective person at the top of the ticket. and i think it was particularly notable in the way that tim kaine hit pence. pence, though, in deflection started a new story line. mike pence showed republicans that there is an answer, and starting some of the key arguments they hope to use against hillary clinton. diane, kendis? >> thanks, rick. only a handful of days out from the next presidential debate. >> the second debate comoderated by our own martha raddatz with full team coverage sunday night here on abc. >>> and our other breaking news this morning is the march of hurricane matthew. as it spins northward, the storm leaves behind catastrophic damage in haiti. >> runoff left behind huge piles of trash that had to be cleaned up and ha

tim kaine and mike pence went toe to toe in the vice presidential debate last night. kaine went on the attack early but mike pence held his own. afterwards donald trump tweeted his vp won big. we expected that to come no matter. most persons seemed to agree. cnn's post debate poll which was a scientific one 48% said pence won the night. joining me to break it down we'll start with the republican side, nbc's chris jansen covered the debate. chris, mike pence had a good night. >> reporter: yeah. i think, you know, he spent weeks preparing for it and it showed, stephanie. look, he came across largely as calm, as informed. he also took a lot of incoming obviously from tim kaine and that kind of deflected and sometimes denied, even denying things that we know donald trump has said. nevertheless, for the most part the reviews for him have been very good suggesting that he came across as the calm, assured radio talk show host that he once was. >> all right. >> there's a reason why people question the trustworthiness of hillary clinton and that's because they're paying attenti

but tim kaine did what a running mate is supposed to do. he defended the record and policies and stood with her and challenged donald trump and he was awol on all of those questions. think senator kaine interrupted a lot? you don't think he did too much of that? >> what was frustrating as i was saying earlier he would make up new positions for example he had a policy contrary to what donald trump suggested in the past and completely new policy on russia questions about controversial remarks he had nothing to say at all and would make assertions and so senator mccain would correct the record as we were seeking to understand how he could defend some of the reprehensible remarks and statements donald trump has said and some of his actions over the last week. >> do you think that mike pence's temperament was a contrast to donald trump? they came inat with most americans believing they are qualified. they both have an extensive experience but what's most troubling is thatgovernor pence wasn't able whether it was his temperament or values or belie

>> look, i wasn't in the debate prep for tim kaine but what tim kaine did was exactly what needed toe done. he made sure that, today, we're talking about the fact that pence and trump seemed to have different russia policies. pence and trump have different syria policies. so trump/pence campaign really has to answer the question, is it donald trump's version of russia policy that will guide the country if he's elected president? this isn't a small point. this isn't a subtle question of interrupting or not interrupting. this is the central issue of american foreign policy. will it be the soft russia version that donald trump put forward or will be it the hard on russia version that mike pence put forward right? the american people deserve to know which one it is. trump gave one version. pence gave another. it's tim kaine would got up to do that. >> the same argument could be made for immigration. we've heard plans from pence that don't necessarily line up from what we've heard from donald trump. i guess it will be interesting to see come sunday what the russia plan looks like. >> on i

and, that was the thing that tim kaine was pushing back on. know, we're concerned about people in this country who are dangerous, you're concerned about people in this country on the basis of their religion, or ethnicity or the country they come from. mike pence, in fact, is trying to bar syrians from indiana at the same time that last night he was saying oh, gee now we need to do something about syria. it's -- it's -- it's a confused message. >> so ben, can you explain -- >> described a moment ago. >> like what -- uh-huh explain to us again what exactly donald trump means when he's going to deport some people, not others. he's going to keep families together but they have to go and come back. like we've heard all those things. >> i'll make it as clear as i possibly can. donald trump has said first and foremost that he is going to deport people that have been convicted of crimes, serious crimes, and heinous crimes. and yes, he will -- >> no he said deport them all. >> let me at least finish, okay. obviously you do not understand what donald tr

last weekend at a hotel in wisconsin going back and forth and pence has been watching old tapes of tim kaine to see what his tendencies are. as for kaine, he said he knows it would be a waste of time to talk too much about himself. quote, let's see if he is willing to defend trump. we're told to kaine is going to get the first question tonight. it is his home turf. but again the debate is not for people in virginia. it's for people all over the country who have not been paying attention to the campaign as much as some of us have. and it's the only chance they have o by themselves on a stage to showcase their talents before november. back to you. >> 84 million for the first presidential debate tuned in. you think they'll match that? >> no. no way. >> we'll see. i would be wrong. thanks, peter. >>> donald trump launching a defense in a blistering speech about his taxes. >> he plans to take over twitter during tonight's vp debate. >> ed henry is live in d.c. with the new social media trat ji. >> republicans have been urging donald trump stay off twitter altogether after those 3:00 a.m. tweets l

as governor, tim kaine commuted his sentence. this person and his girlfriend murdered derek, stabbing him to death in his home. on his last day of governor, tim cain tried to have him send to germany where peril would have been possible in just two years. tim kaine, he has a passion for defending the wrong people. america deserves better. >> okay, so heidi, some are like comparing that to that infamous willie horton ad, right. >> some, including apparently the rnc spokesman who had to delete his tweet last night comparing it to willie horton ad which of course lives in infamy as one of the all-time great smear ads of political campaigns. could i see why he would want to delete that. but ultimately this is not going to be effective. jackie and i were discussing this before the show. tim kaine's principled opposition to capital punishment is grounded in his faith, grounded in his catholicism which is something very much in line with the republican base actually as well as a lot of independent voters. i just don't think this is as we

>> i'm not sure tim kaine is going to bring those things up. i don't know that it helps the democratic ticket to get too nasty. there's a sunny optimism that the ticket has claimed it was going to pivot to and that is very much tim kaine's style. it has been throughout his career. i don't know that he's going to be looking to go overboard with a lot of that stuff although i think you'll see some very targeted remarks that are intended to get specific groups of voters in specific battleground states. so you'll hear, i think, some things about sexism because they're looking to get more educated women voters on their side. i think you'll hear some things where just to make sure the millennials know that there's a difference between the candidates and parties when it comes to, say, global warming, but other than that, i don't think it's going to be anywhere near as in your face nasty as we saw between the two main candidates just a week ago. >> susan, what do you think? >> i think sunny optimism would be a nice change of pace this year. i don't thi

for tim kaine, keep what you got.ld the board here and also make progress with millennials and never trump republicans. tim kaine is hoping maybe they don't like hillary clinton. maybe they think -- he's trying to make the case to millennials to support the ticket. and favorability ratings. mike pence has a higher favorability rating tan his running mate. a lot of the american people when we ask these question, they say we don't know tim kaine. we don't know much about mike pence. that might just about change. >> we'll see tonight if they in fact raise their proeflsz. we're about 35 minutes from the start of the debate. let's talk with our partisans. jeffrey lord. how concerned are you about the battleground state polls that we've been seeing, particularly since the debate, seems to be shifting to hillary clinton. are you confident they can shift back? >> sure. sure. they absolutely can. >> i knew you were going to say that. to be honest. >> of course. but while we were waiting, i was reading an article about the cart

we've got mike pence and tim kaine. both of them, i think, would be characterized as people who tend to be pro-trade and pro-trade deals. you've seen at the top of the ticket, both opposition to tpp by both hillary clinton and donald trump, and bernie sanders was the last person in the democratic primary. you're a pro-trade democrat, a pro-tpp democrat. has your side lost the argument. >> i think that anyone who advocates trade, and i believe, still, that when we're trading with asia, we ought to be setting the rules rather than china. we need to acknowledge that there have been winners and there have been losers in trade. and we as a nation, back to all the previous trade deals, have not done enough to help those communities and individuals that have been hurt by trade. candidly, if we believe our own language about trade, that is going to add $1 trillion to the economy over the next ten years, tpp for example, we ought to be able to do more than frankly a failed trade assistance act program that's -- >> but i feel lik

i thought tim kaine was hugely effective in defending hillary clinton. and helping make the affirmative case about what clinton-kaine administration would do on the economy. you need to make the case against the other person on the other side of the ballot. i thought he was effective in making the case about why donald trump is temper mentally unfit to be president. he was citing trump's own words and what is notable that mike pence was not engaging at those points. >> was that a strategy to have him -- it doesn't matter how many times he interrupts just say launch these attacks over and over again? >> it's easy to seem agreeable if you're not making any case on behalf of your candidate. mike pence, i thought sat out major portions of the debate where tim kaine was calling out statements that donald trump made. i thought that was reasonable and i thought that what is notable that mike pence didn't seem interested in defending some of donald trump's more outrageous comments. seemed like he made a conclusion coming into tonight that if he didn't want to hav

in terms of the two candidates, he really has the tougher job than tim kaine. >> yet tim kaine comes in knowing his candidate has momentum and better not drop the ba to baton? for tim kaine he'll try to keep mike pence on the defense. mike pence also has an opportunity that donald trump wasn't able to pick up on at hofstra, that is to prosecute at every possible turn the case against hillary clinton, the case against the obama foreign policies, the case they want to make. donald trump missed opportunities. i would suspect that mike pence will not miss opportunities in the way that donald trump did. >> in a sense, he can do what he's been doing all along and play cleanup, pickup, whatever you want, and i think, i mean, he can sort of slow hillary clinton's momentum a little bit, or at least do what he's been doing all along for xanax conservatives hoping that he's here. that might take a full 90 minutes for that. >> the forecast tonight, i think, john, will include a lot of talking points. i think both of these candidates are going to take all of these questions and use them, the best

what did tim kaine say that wasn't true? >> i'll tell you one and this matters to me as the son of an immigrant and as a latino, he said -- and they're said this all along -- they keep saying donald trump is a racist and that is the sign of an intellectually failing campaign. >> did he say that last night? i don't think tim kaine e said that. >> he said that donald trump said mexicans are rapists murderers. that's ridiculous. are there some illegal immigrants who are? are there dangerous illegal immigrants? absolutely and they need to be gone yesterday and there are sanctuary cities and people literally suffering and dying because of that policy but are most mexicans? of course not? latinos are a treasure to this country as are immigrants in general so i think what he showed up with, tim kaine, was a landry list and said "i dare you to defend one through ten" and pence sedley defend broad principles but i won't go down your rabbit hole. >> here's not a rabbit hole but a google search for everybody. ron, you can do it, too. e

>> well, senator tim kaine came off as a raging lunatic.to layoff the caffeine and go to decaf. he said he criticized donald trump for saying african americans live in hell. i said that before donald trump did. i said the american ghetto is a hell hole. unless mrs. bill clinton and senator tim kaine think it's okay for blacks to live with entrenched poverty with failing schools and crime infested neighborhoods and mentioned about community policing. community policing will not work where you have an intrenched under class that is culturally dysfunctional. it's a 2 way street. you can't just have a one sided effort by the police. there are a number of things tim kaine doesn't understand policing that i think donald trump and governor pence do. >> i don't think he understands policing and i don't think he understands the economy and the need to vet refugees. i think the differences are profound. that is what comes through here geraldo. >> to sheriff chashg's point about the hell hole, quote, unquote, blacks live in, i don't know where sheriff