republican senator tom tillis weighs in next. ♪ all use our cellphones very differently.he's always on social media. he's always watching sports. someone's video chatting her friends. hi, gianna! my parents are getting older, so knowing that i can get in touch with them at any time is really comforting. grandma, you're on tv! (grandma) wow! what channel? (vo) the network more people rely on, gives you more. like plans your family can mix and match starting at just $35. so everyone gets the plan they need. and disney+ on us. plus one of our best phones when you buy one. that's verizon. and with the sxfinity stream app, screen is your big screen. which is free with your service, you can take a spin through on demand shows, or stream live tv. download your dvr'd shows and movies on the fly. even record from right where you are. whether you're travelling around the country or around the house, keep what you watch with you. download the xfinity stream app and watch all the shows you love. ♪ >> trace: for more on the top two stories, house speaker nancy pelosi said to send arti

he's great tom tillis, who's doing pretty well is what i'm understanding, tom tillis where's tom? by the way -- thank you, roger is there anybody i didn't introduce? i would like to apologize immediately. where's rick he's been one of the greats. i figured he was over there. rick, why are you not over there, rick? rick scott has been so incredible great governor of florida. great, great governor. now he's a great senator thank you very much. the rest of you i don't have to bother with. i'm kidding. you know the way it works in life, right? trying to teach here but you can actually teach me. i want to really thank all of those people and also with us is kevin mccarthy and kevin brady and mike conaway and verne scalise. they've been incredible from day one. literally 100 other congress men and women. we appreciate you being there. kevin, congratulations on your big victory yesterday. that was incredible. and he's also a tremendous fund-raiser, not that that matters. we don't even think about that but that was a big victory you had. thank you very much. also here many of the state an

three, that whoever john bolton was endorsing, for example tom tillis, would be a better candidate than hagan, for example, in that specific race. these ads were paid in order to manipulate people into being more interested in his hawkish foreign policies than their own best intnterests. amy: can y you talk about ththed that is not radioio-friendly, because it is mainly music wiwih script over it, but this is an ad for tom tillis. >> it was targeted for people as being highly neurotic. therefore, it is black-and-white, eerie. you get very emotional music that shows surrender flags on all of america's most prominent landmarks. amy: let me play it and i will read what it says on the screen. we will listen to that music and play the ad and you can then comment further.r. ♪ amy: it was titled "white flags." tillis went on to win. >> he did. they use these tactics and a successful manner. the john bolton super pac paid for a third party to rate how successful cambridge analytica had been. they saw on this ad specifically there was over a 36% uplift in engagement on these ads versus the commu

this is about tom tillis. this is about martha mc sally. this is cory gardner. chuck schumer has said as much. this is only partly about removing donald trump and taking his name off of the ballot. it is also about chuck schumer trying to make himself majority leader of the united states senate and there is no way to deny it because he himself has confirmed it. >> there should be more witnesses and documents because no evidence has come out, there was a recording literally obtain showing donald trump was in favor of taking out the us ambassador in the ukraine. can you respond to the idea that in a trial there has to be evidence, witnesses and documents as they come to have a fair trial? >> there will be new evidence every day. there will be something new that comes out every day and the house has said we will continue to investigate. house members said we may bring additional articles of impeachment. there is nothing to stop the house from continuing along that line but when the house managers say the evidence is overwhelming, it is a rocksolid case and a mounta

tom tillis, doing pretty well is what i'm understanding. where's tom? and roger wicker.s there anybody, thank you, roger. roger, is there anybody i didn't introduce? i would like to apologize immediately. where's rick? he's been one of the great. i figured he was over there. rick, why are you not over there, rick? rick scott has been so incredible. great governor of florida. great, great governor. now he's a great senator. thank you very much. the rest of you i don't have to bother with. you know the way it works in life, right? trying to teach you. i want to really thank all of those people and also with us is kevin mccarthy and kevin brady and mike conaway and verne buchanan, steve scalise. they have been incredible from day one. literally a hundred other wonderful congress men and women, we appreciate you being here. kevin, congratulations on your big victory yesterday. that was incredible. he's also a tremendous fundraiser. not that that matters. we don't even think about that. but that was a big victory yesterday. thank you very much. also here are many of the state

go block witnesses, this is martha something sally from arizona, corey gardener from colorado, tom tillis from north carolina. these are key -- joey earnst from iowa. these are key senators who have now basically gone off the hook because we have been focusing on lamar alexander, a buddy of mitch mcconnell who honestly in retrospect was never going to vote against mitch mcconnell. joanie earnst, mcsally, gardener, they could have voted against mitch mcconnell. they could have voted to not block witnesses, but they decided not to. so i think this whole thing has been theater. and what this latest development shows is the fix has been in since the very beginning. >> tim miller, i don't know. you and i talked a few times this weekend. it's getting a bit blurry to me. this is a point you made some point earlier this week. everybody needs to stop being fixated on those people, republican senators who are in tough reelection battles and talk more broadly about those who were in a position to do the right thing and are off the hook. i've seen it on twitter tonight. why are people not talking abo

you see cory gardner and tom tillis that have fallen in line. they are keeping such a low profile.bout this. justice. >> i got to kill it there. thank you, fellas. we're going to take a break now. stay tuned. there will be more news on cnn right after. we're a lot alike. just two dudes getting paid to do what we love. only difference is you never get booed... [woman in crowd] we love you, big orange! ...and of course the salaries. mainly the salaries. try investing with e*trade. they make it easy to get started, without all the typical finance jargon. that's the spirit, keep on smiling! don't get mad. start investing with e*trade. wthat's why xfinity hasu made taking your internetself. and tv with you a breeze. really? yup. you can transfer your service online in about a minute. you can do that? yeah. and with two-hour service appointment windows, it's all on your schedule. awesome. so while moving may still come with its share of headaches... no kidding. we're doing all we can to make moving simple, easy, awesome. go to xfinity.com/moving to get started. >>> just before 11:00 p.m.

it's cnn's reporting that senators in tough races, tom tillis, cory gardner, joni ernst, martha mcsallyot up and said, prolonging the trial is the risk for them, not voting against witnesses. amanda carpenter, which -- where do you think they are feeling the real political pressure here? >> i mean, mitch mcconnell only cares about one thing. fast forward past acquittal, which is almost certain to happen to this summer. can republican senators essentially defend the quid pro quo that happened on the campaign trail? john bolton is just going to confirm as a firsthand witness what we already know. and so we are in a waiting period. they are testing out their arguments to see if this defense works. the defense is going to be, yes, the quid pro quo happened. donald trump was justified in doing it because he believed joe biden was abusing his office for personal family gain. we can all agree that's a smear and unfair but that's what the play is going to be. the ads run by rick scott in florida, they're testing this argument to see how it goes. the reception of that will dictate whether there

point the very next day or even just hours after dershowitz performed, including one, you know, tom tillis, who is up for re-election. he is in a tough spot. he has sort of not weighed in and after that, he was saying, look, dershowitz said this is not impeachable. therefore, we don't need to see more witnesses. in that regard, a lot of republicans were looking at him and saying, thank goodness he made this argument. this gives us a reason to say we don't need to hear from john bolton. however, he took it a step further yesterday when he said trump can do whatever he wants if he thinks it's in the public interest to get re-elected. he can do whatever he wants to get that election including a quid pro quo. i was out in one of those reporter pens trying to talk to members as they were leaving the chamber after that exchange and we had two senate republicans come up to us. one of them was tim scott. the other was jim barrasso. tim scott says i'm going to step away right now and keep walking after we asked that question which showed some discomfort with the question. the other one, john barras

those are people like cory gardener in colorado or tom tillis in north carolina who have basically been down in favor of what mitch mcconnell wanted to do, what the president wanted to do, no witnesses. their calculation clearly is that the republican base is totally with trump, they don't want to see anybody -- you know, don't get any big ideas, this is not the time to stand up to the president. and the power balance really fell onto some of these others. the key difference would be susan collins. she is facing a tough race and will have to defend her kavanaugh vote, too, from two years ago. she's gearing up for a very, very close fight. but for so many of the other vulnerable republicans or so-called vulnerable republicans they decided early on in this process it was better for them to stay with the president than walk away from the president. >> and i think some democrats had been staking their hopes on chief justice roberts that he would be able to break a tie if it's 50-50, but he's not the vice president. the constitution does not say that's the role he has here, and i think most

tom tillis from north carolina. introducing andy mccarthy a moment ago, he is saying just like rick scott said last night with brats, lindsey graham said last night with martha that they believe they can ended on friday. and it is possible, we have to see how it floats out in the next couple of days, negotiations going on behind the scenes. but i thought the two interviews are very interesting, especially the questions that either got miss answered or docked. your question about what happens if it is 50/50, what happens, bill, it is up to chief justice roberts to decide. he can decide to be assertive and actually cast a vote, or he can decide -- advocate is the wrong word, but he can decide to restrain himself and not vote in which case the motion would not carry, because it does not have -- it would effectively be voting against, because the motion will not carry and have 51. that's what would happen. in the impeachment of andrew johnson, justice chase did both. ruled a couple of times and then stayed his hand once

going to go -- >> i don't disagree with that but it's not a guarantee it works that way and i think tom tillishinks he can win and don't they have to prepare to win out their candidate winning the state? >> we have the new iowa poll coming out today and some senators say i stay in washington. right? a few of them aren't going to make it. i think that is clear by now. >> but that is what i wonder. what is biden doing with this? is he just ignoring it and if there is a moment where they decide to try to make him a spectacle it certainly puts the democratic senators in an interesting spot. >> probably the safest place for him to be is iowa because people are not asking him 9 zillion detailed questions of impeachment every day and he can run for president. he can go around and do -- a lot of retail politicking that many of the candidates doing more of than he has so far. >> the big star witness if it's john bolton, the president indicating in the interview with fox to air later tonight that he plans to cite executive privilege with bolton and the chief justice will have an interesting ruling immed

you could add tom tillis, you could add martha mcsally. you could add david purdue.e in states with significant numbers of suburban voters who are not going to be happy if they deny witnesses. i think the pressure to do witnesses for people who know that their lives are on the line is tough. now, on the other side of that is martha mcsally who by calling a very professional reporter a liberal hack and raising money off it has made it clear she's all in with the trump cult, and we'll see soon whether others are going to follow with that and decide that they're better off sticking with that core who will be with trump no matter what and who will be against them if they take even the slightest step to suggest -- >> i think the calculus for senator is not as publicly spirited as you suggest it should be in the previous segment. the ones who are confident will survive and the ones who know they're dead ducks will vote for trump. their lobbying career. those are the ones who have hope. that's why cory gardener and susan collins are such important persons and joni ernst too

tom tillis, just last week was pooh poohing the idea. he's in the top 4.ey gardener in december called the whole impeachment venture a circus. martha mcsally has also said she hasn't seen anything after the entire house testimony that would convince her that impeachment is merited. so you need to get to four. mitt romney -- >> let me give you some candidates. ready? >> okay. >> murkowski has more guts than anybody i know. >> that's why i think we're watching the wrong people. it's not necessarily the most vulnerable republicans sitting for reelection. it's those who are considered to have broken with the party in the past, people of principle. lamar alexander is one of them. >> one who is fearful, corey gardener, purple state, colorado. >> here's the thing again. you have to distinguish between the broad concept of witnesses because witnesses like the congressman said, could be anybody. and these four, whoever the four are, digging in and saying, we want bolton and assuming the president doesn't invoke executive privilege, and then block bolton. >> yeah, l

suggesting we don't need a fair trial, we could have the expectation of mark rubio, of rick scott, tom tillis, of david perdue that we are putting on the shoulders of susan collins and mitt romney tonight. embrace truth and shame on every single one of them not just the three or four we're looking to -- >> we shouldn't be relying on them because they've got elections coming up, right? this is the united states senate and an impeachment trial. this is quite possibly the most important thing these senators will do in their careers. at this point we should be looking at the same bar for everybody. the nation's eyes are upon you. more importantly histories eyes are upon you. and in that sense what does fair and what is right look like? is there a movement in the republican party, do you believe, to push them to say do the right thing? >> no, i think today's votes they are procedural and mcconnell's making the point and romney and everybody else is following along they will deal with witnesses and additional evidence later. i think that's just a head fake and a misdirection. this is the moment of

you heard from tom tillis from north carolina that the idea of what bothers him is the house impeachmenttime to make my case. indeed, it is a contradictory message from the democrats, the idea that you need to remove this guy from office and we need more evidence. i understand that. now, the counter-argument from the democrats is that it would have taken a long, long time, months and months and months, maybe even past the election, and president trump was, in their characterization, trying to cheat in that very election. so how do you reconcile that idea? because there really is no remedy for the house of representatives to go to chief justice roberts and say, we need this expedited, we can't have this go through the normal lazy manner that judges take cases or slow manner, to be more generous, the judges take cases. this is of utmost important and we need courts to hear this today, next week, next month, not in the next summer. >> if the argument is we had to do this because he's going to cheat in the next election and we have to stop him from cheating, the only way to stop him from che

joining me is public senator tom tillis and senator, thank you very much for being here tonight. >> good evening. >> martha: your reaction to all of this. >> i think this is a provocation that we expected or i should say retaliation that we expected. the fact that they were so quick to claim responsibility for it is concerning to me, but i have to be honest with you. i think that these targets are not new targets for these missiles. they chose to launch them this evening. we've got to take a look at whether or not they successfully hit their targets. we have to particularly look at the american men and women and partners in harm's way. i think that the president has to be prepared to respond appropriately. >> martha: obviously, the white house is being briefed. watching all of this closely with leadership at the pentagon, i look back at the interview at that the foreign minister with cnn earlier today. he said that the president must stop threatening people. that people will be further enraged. he said that the president needed to apologize for the hit that took out qassem soleimani. you

susan collins of maine, cory gardner of colorado, martha mcsally of arizona and tom ti tillis. 49% saying yes and 48% saying no. when it comes to the actual act of removing the president from office. a two-thirds vote of the entire upper house of congress meaning 67 out of 100 senators need to vote in favor of impeachment. that, by all estimates, is a high bar. with me from washington, nbc news correspondent heidi, former senior adviser to president obama and now president and ceo at the senator for american progress nara and house spemich steele. thank you for joining us. heidi, let's start with you. the stakes this week higher than they were last week. we got strong presentations from the democratic house managers, we then got theomeeni ompening statements from the president's team and this is the week where senators could ask questions and make a decision on whether to vote on witnesses and documents. so this week matters. >> this is the week where we are going to see whether this is going to be in the estimation by those percentages you just provided. the american people get the trial

the resolution, there is a little bit of restlessness in the ranks among vulnerable senators, tom til thom tillis. gardner a statement was so vanilla, you know it was right down the middle, saying i support the clinton proposal, it could have been something you put out in 1999. there are two ways to read this. one, fact that mcconnell had to switch rlgd o resolution on e flying then that one documented vote 53-47. and hir here later on another ot table, not up or town but to set, side next schumer proposal, they are debating now, that superintendent -- souq. >> thank you very much chad. >> hillary clinton takes a shot at her 2016 primary opponent, bernie sanders, what will this mean for the democratic candidate in the primaries in we'll debate that, coming next. ♪ where others see chaos, we see patterns. ♪ connections. relationships. ♪ when you use location technology, you can see where things happen, before they happen. ♪ with esri location technology, you can see what others can't. ♪ we do things differently and aother money managers, don't understand why. because our way works great for us! bu

susan collins, joni ernst, thom tillis under water and four of those five, tom, have approval ratingsthe 30s. and yet these people are still blindly following donald trump a guy who majority of americans want impeached and removed from office. explain it to me, because i don't -- as denzel washington said in "philadelphia," explain it to me like i'm a fifth grader, because i don't understand. >> where are they going to go? they've already let go of the -- they're like a trapeze artist half way across to the other guy, except that donald trump's not there. not there for them. they've taken the leap. they've had to go to the wall early on. i mean, this is a phenomenon we've seen with these so-called moderate republicans, where they think, i just have to defend trump a little more, and it can't get worse, and then it gets worse. they say, if i just go one more inch, and pretty soon they find that the only people that they can rely on are the base, which, of course, on something like this, is starting to shrink, and mcsally in particular did that kind of weird hostage video, tried to come

tom tillis. where is tom? and roger wicker. is there anybody -- thank you, roger. there anybody i didn't introduce? i would like to apologize immediately. where's rick? he's been one of the greats. i figured he was over there. rick, why are you not over there, rick? rick scott has been so incredible. great governor of florida, great, great governor, now a great senator. thank you very much. the rest of you, i don't have to bother with. you know the way it works in life, right? right, ivanka? trying to teach her but she could teach me. i really want to thank all of those people. also with us is kevin mccarthy, kevin brady, mike conaway, steve scalise. they have been incredible from day one. literally a hundred other wonderful congressmen and women, we appreciate you being here. kevin, congratulations on your big victory yesterday. that was incredible. he's also a tremendous fundraiser. not that that matters. we don't even think about that. but that was a big victory you had yesterday. thank you very much. also here are many of the state and local leaders including a

tom tillis who is doing pretty well is what i'm understanding and roger wicker.f you, you don't have to bother with. you know the way it works in life, right? >> just your totally normal run of the action between a defendant and the jury in the middle of a trial. good morning and welcome to "morning joe." it is thursday, january 30th. and with us, we have mike barnacle, former chief of staff at the cia and department of defense nbc news national security analyst, former chief of staff for hillary clinton 2016, presidential campaign adrian elrod is with us and coauthor of the play book, jake sherman, and along with willie and me, joe has what i had yesterday. he's taking a sick day and should be back tomorrow, but willie, we are now just four days away from iowa where we're going to be at java joe's. and we have new polling that shows who candidates in a dead heat. plus, the key moments from the impeachment trial yesterday including that quid pro quo isn't impeachable even if it happened. but first, willie, the uncertainty on capitol hill and the vote over whether

the year because that will put maximum pressure on cory gardner, susan collins, martha mcsally, tom tilliso do the right thing? >> well, you certainly don't want the impeachment vote now. we thought there might have been enough pressure on independents in the swing states that somehow those vulnerable republicans would be forced to vote for impeachment and then they would be primaried and you would end up with weaker general election senate candidates. that is clearly not happening. so it is somewhere between let's not have a senate vote at all and not hand donald trump a victory lap and holding off for a considerable period so that pressure does build. we're not just playing here for the white house. the candidates on the democratic side are having no problem out there talking about health care, talking about all of the issues that matter. i agree completely that's where their focus ought to be, but we have a senate to think about also. i think this vote as it relates to senate incumbents will be a critical one as to whether or not they are tied totally to trump or able to craft the path

tillis and martha mcsally leaning hard on the president? they have made the choice to defend the president and try to juice their base. >> yeah, i know that the inflection part for tom till li thom tillis came from reprogramming money for the wall. he said the president didn't have a chance. there were rumors that tillis would face a senate primary challenge and the president would withholdis endorsement, he quickly fell in line and facing a tough re-election, needed the support. mcsally, i think that she knows she is losing so beginning to be aggressively. so a senator who knows that she will lose in november. >> and desiree, once again we fimd ourselves talking about susan collins and lisa murkowski, republican senators who democrats find themselves again depending on a big priority here. and can democrats count on those votes for witnesses? >> i mean, here is what i'll say. for every senator in this, when they are sworn into office, they take an oath to proikprotect th constitution, not a president or the party but the constitution. and i'm going to give senator murkowski and senator collins the benefit of the doubt to uphold the oath that they toofrk. i think th

. >> tillis got 10,000, tom cotton got 10,000 and cory gardner got $10,000 from bolton's pac. that money back or you've got to give it to charity and all of a sudden will bolton's pack -- >> you devil, you. >> ashley parker with "the washington post" has been listening to your conversation. ashley, do you care to weigh in on the topic on the table? >> absolutely. there's a number of interesting points you have been discussing. first of all, i think, you know, the president so far has proven himself impervious to the rules of political gravity. but john bolton is someone who cannot be underestimated and he's someone who is a bureaucratic infighter, has a history of turning on administrations he's worked for. and unlike the trump people, even now, he understands the levers of power. he understands the pressure points. he understands how government works. and so if there ever is going to be a formidable foe to go up against the administration, it will be john bolton. it was interesting just how the administration's stance has shifted so quickly when i first talked to them when th