united states. are you concerned that the u.s. may be usingveillance to track your activities and the actives of others. >> i was convinced from the time that i was director, that i was questioning the united states policies. and essentially, its policies regarding life, humanity, and the environment. and i have a feeling that they were fying us quite a bit. d.e.a., c.i.a. but the espeonnage under wiretapping is intolerable. we already know that the united states through their intelligence fies against governments that are anticapitalists and anti-imperialists. i am not an alley of the united states, of the government of the united states. but there are countries that are allies that are procapitalist, proimperialist, and that's their right under the constitution, this is a freedom of thought, but have them spy on their own allies or spy on their businessmen. but the business in brazil, that's intolerable. you cannot accept that. and that's why it was a general protest in the world with these types of espionage. >> i want the ask 24 question n

votes on such a matter, we get the word that president putin says but, united states, you have to forego the usef military force if this is going to work. that's where we are. in the united states of america, the most powerful country on earth. the russians just threw a head fake and we bit. and we'll be right back. [ male announcer ] this is claira. to prove to you that aleve is the better choice for her, she's agreed to give it up. that's today? [ male announcer ] we'll be with her all day to see how it goes. [ claira ] after the deliveries, i was okay. now the ciabatta is done and the pain is starting again. more pills? seriously? seriously. [ groans ] all these stops to take more pills can be a pain. can i get my aleve back? ♪ for my pain, i want my aleve. [ male announcer ] look for the easy-open red arthritis cap. ♪ and i'll never desert you ♪ ♪ i'll stand by you yeaaaah! yeah. so that's our loyalty program. you're automatically enrolled, and the longer you stay, the more rewards you get. great! oh! ♪ i'll stand by you ♪ won't let nobody hurt you ♪ isn't there a simpler way to explain the

date and our partners and degrade syria's capacity to use those weapons in the future. that the united states has a specific military plan to achieve the goal of responding to the use of weapons of mass destruction by the syrian government, and that the use of military force is consistent with protocols of u.s. strategy toward syria including achieving a negotiated settlement to the conflict. it has the limitation specifying that the resolution does not authorize the use of the united states armed forces on the ground in syria for the purpose of combat operations to ensure that there be no boots on the ground. the authorization would end after 60 days with the president having the authority to request and certify another 30 days and congress having the power to pass a resolution of disapproval. it provides united strategy for syria including a copper hence of review of economic and military policy toward syria. it requires a report to congress on the status of those military operations. let me thank senator corker and all the members of the committee for working together in the interes

words can inspire us, unite us, and even help us win battles, especially when put to music. carly tells us more. >> we sing it at school, at important ceremonies, and even before sporting events. our national anthem has a proud history, and it all began right here in baltimore harbor two centuries ago. >> this was the war of 1812. we weren't doing so well. the americans were losing at that time. and the british had just burned washington. that was kind of scaring the people in baltimore city. and fort mchenry was the only thing standing in between the british ships and baltimore city. >> can you describe fort mchenry to us? >> absolutely. from the air, the fort looks like a giant star. it has points on it called "bastions" so that the cannons can have crossfire all the way around the fort. and fort mchenry is named for james mchenry. he was the secretary of war at the time fort mchenry was being built. >> we are standing on the parade ground. this grassy area is where troops would muster for various ceremonies, such as inspection, morning parade, and whatnot. around us are t

but hurt the government if the united states took out the ability to use air force. we can do that by attacking the air force. if the united states were to make good on the pledge to provide serious arms, to selected elements of the opposition, i say senator mccain and others advocated that would tilt the battle field. this will be a long process, and the decision to potentially use force in response to the chemical use thanks policy can't bear anything like the full burden of the policy if your goal is to take the humanitarian nightmare that is contemporary syria. >>> let's talk more about tomorrow's vote on the syria resolution before the senate foreign relations committee. joining us the author of "syria, the fall of the house of assad." also joining us marvin calb, author of the book "the road to war" the senior fellow at the brookings institutional, as well. thanks to both of you for coming in. david, let me start with you. you know bashar al-assad, you met his father. you understand what is going through his mind right now. when he sees this debate unfolding i

and the one thing that historically, has united us is the public schools. >> well, we have some communitiese, america's too busy, worrying about things like the racial makeup of schools rather than academics and an adequate supply of books. the diversionty was my high school experience, it made me more aware and conscious, but class is just as important. i grew up on the u.s. mexico boarder was a minority within my school community. so that flips the tables, but i think it was great. i have friend from a hugely diverse background. all over the world now. and that was a big part of me becoming bilingual just by nature. it was a huge huge asset for me. >> carol, do you live through segregation. desegregation. how important is racial diversity to education and to the improvement of our future students? >> i'm in louisville, not louisiana. >> sorry about that. >> we had desecration back in 1975, we also had mergers simultaneously, which that was as much a problem as desegregation. my children were involved. were in school, and so i got involved out on is school board. and it was very tumultuous

military council. >> everything should be handled within the frame of united nations. the use of force is lawful only when in exercise of self-defense and in accordance with article 51 of the united nations and or when the security council approves such action. >> the syrian ambassador to the united nations has been speaking out listening to what's been going on there in congress. skrefry attacked the u.s. position. >> the appointed american administration to anticipate on the out come and the findings and some of the findings -- how could the united states of america act from outside the context of the united nations? we are not asking president obama to the bully of the world. why not waiting until until they have finalized the its mission. >> we understand that laboratory tests are under way in europe right now. part of that investigation by the united nations in chemical weapons used. president obama says he won't wait for thaeupb vest tkpwaeugs but it's just possible those samples will be in time for that congressional vote. per perhaps the u.n. report is not quite as cer

knows the united states well can't show evidence and won't show evidence and so of course the united states is using russia as a punching bag to say russia is the reason we can't go to the united nations and why we must act unilaterally in a new war but you know what i think it's very interesting you mention that because putin said he would consider a resolution but maybe when it's determined that the rebels use chemical weapons then go after them that's when a resolution would work he presented what putin presented documentation to the effect that chemical weapons that were fired in aleppo actually came from iraq from al dura who's who was one of saddam hussein's henchmen one of his top inner circle guys and they actually were producing chemical weapons. in north northwestern iraq those the a defector came out from al duri staff and actually claimed that he had documentation to show that that the chemical weapons then were transferred from iraq into turkey and given to the opposition to be used and aleppo and that's when the ponty from the u.n. the u.n. investigator back in early may said that they

that the united states well can't show evidence and won't show evidence and so of course the united states is using russia as a punching bag to say russia is the reason we can't go to the united nations and why we must act unilaterally in a new war but you know what i think it's very interesting you mention that because putin said he would consider a resolution but maybe when it's determined that the rebels use chemical weapons they go after them that's when a resolution would work he presented what putin presented documentation to the effect that chemical weapons that were fired in aleppo actually came from iraq from al dura who's who was one of saddam hussein's henchmen one of his top inner circle guys and they actually were producing chemical weapons. in north northwestern iraq those the a defector came out from al duri staff and actually claimed that he had documentation to show that that the chemical weapons then were transferred from iraq into turkey and given to the opposition to be used in aleppo and that's when the ponty from the u.n. the u.n. investigator back in early may said that they

as he has done before the president talked about the need for the unite us security council saying that the un charter mandates that action militarily against another nation can only happen in self-defense or if authorized by the u.n. security council he also talked about how alarming it is that u.s. military intervention in foreign internal conflicts has become commonplace and i ask why would a miracle want to repeat the mistakes of the past making an allusion to iraq but he also talked about the importance of. waiting for all of the information from the u.n. to come in something that he has done repeatedly in the past alluding to the fact that it might not be the syrian regime that use the chemical weapons but there's also evidence to suggest that it was the rebels as well take a listen to what he actually wrote no one doubts the poison gas was used in syria but there is every reason to believe it was used not by the syrian army but by opposition forces to provoke intervention by the powerful foreign patrons who would be siding with the fundamentalists reports that militants are prepa

does a rec, this unit, use the count renewable energy, right? does that mean that when san francisco purchases a rec, right, that we're getting a unit of a megawatt of energy from the same place that we're getting the rec from? >> no. >> no. >> if you buy an unbundled rec, no. >> okay. so, you know, because i feel like i understand a rec until we start talking about recs again. [laughter] >> so, and i think that a lot of times we sit here, and those of you that are a little more familiar with this than others, will start talking about this. and i just want to be very clear. when people say, okay, we're going to have 75% of our program being recs, right, that means that, you know, sf power or, you know, rcca is going to be purchasing not necessarily units of energy, but just the tax credits, if you would, the credits from energy that's being produced to go to somebody else. >> yes, that's true. the important thing to remember, not to get into physics, because you'll lose me if i start talking about physics, too. but remember, the individual elect

united states. i think repeatedly members of congress have spoken out about the grave consequences of assad in particular used chemical weapons. both speaker boehner and leader pelosi have stated in recent days that the actions of the assad regime are unacceptable and that the united states has a responsibility to respond. so as we debate, the world is watching and the world is wondering not whether assad's regime actually this. i think that fact is now beyond question. the world is wondering whether the united states of america is going to consent through silence to stand aside while this kind of brutality is allowed to happen without consequence. in the nearly 100 years since this global commitment against chemical weapons was made, only two tyrants have dared to cross the world's brightest line. bashar al assad has now become the third. in history i think everyone here knows holds nothing but infamy for those criminals, and history also reserves very little sympathy for their enablers. that is the gravity of this moment. that is really what is at stake in the decision that the congress faces. syria, bottom

and that's what the flag is. >> it makes us all feel united. han just ourselves. >> it's not until we're challenged that we reach back at what makes us americans, and what that is and what the symbol is, is the flag. >> if this flag were to be recovered, what should happen to it or does it matter? >> it would matter, it would matter. it would matter to me. >> i think it would matter to the families who lost their loved ones. because it's a relic of the day. >> what happened to these firemen and where are they? >> you know, i think they never wanted this attention in the first place. they never anticipated that this would become -- >> everybody's first reaction who is a hero is to say i'm not. >> my name is bill eisengrind. i'm the firefighter on the right. on the left is george johnson. on the left is dan mcwilliams. it was literally over in just a few minutes. we found a spot and raised the flag. the three of us looked at each other, we looked at the flag and that was that. it was kind of no big deal and i'm sure danny and george feel the same

of using it, it can only be used by very specialized unit. on the other hand if he is accusing he rebel office using chemical weapons, apparently anybody can do it. that was the tenor of the interview throughout, trace. president assad sort of trying to have it both ways. we still await secretary kerry's appearance at the state department. we expect him to address this deadline. the russians and the u.s. officials reached this agreement last saturday, which laid out a timetable for the destruction of syria's chemical weapons. the first deadline was seven days for the syrian government to declare their complete stockpile of chemical weapons. we're approaching that tedline. therefore, one assumes that's why we're about to hear from the secretary of state,. >> trace: as we await secretary of state john kerry, there's no sign that president assad is going to back down at all in the civil war going on in his country for the better part of two and a half years. >> no sign at all if you go by the interview with fox news. in that he was asked an inter

united nations security council will act. i hope the international community will join us. the united states leadership is needed. president obama is providing that. but the key point is that we must respond to the use of chemical weapons. i think this debate is strengthening our country. i understand that there are different views. i would urge my colleagues to get together to support a resolution that puts america on record supporting president obama on saying that we will not permit the use of chemical weapons to go unchallenged, that our objective is to make sure the world is safer from the use of chemical weapons, and we're prepared to work with the international community in order to achieve those objectives. with that, mr. president, i would suggest the absence of a quorum. the presiding officer: the clerk will call the roll quorum call: quorum call: quorum call: quorum call: quorum call: the presiding officer: the senator from west virginia. mr. manchin: madam president, i ask unanimous consent that the time until 7:00 p.m. be allly ae equally divide i had and controlled between the two -- i want to vitiat

we worked with our conference and a rate that i think that's only united us that you had a bipartisanhe bill. it shows it will be responsible in funding government while also tackling all of the problems the president health care is creating. >> how many votes are there when this comes back? for a clean continuing resolution at the funding levels, how many votes, republican votes? >> i am not going to speculate. they may take this bill. there is a public outcry going on. the problems that so many of the senators, how do they go back home and say they're going to keep it in place even though the president has admitted it is unworkable? if anything does come back, and there are a lot of legislative tools we have their debt available. vcr is one. -- t'she cr -- the is one. c we will maker sure the health care law will be delayed and also addressed the economy. we will put some provisions like the keystone pipeline. the president has listened to special interests and turned the jobs away. why do we not say yes and get our economy moving again? the bills we will continue to pass sure that

us exceptional. i do agree the united states is an exceptional nation. president putin asks this exceptional nation idea has taken us into war against iraq, war in afghanistan ten years, war in libya. now we are moving toward war in syria. what good has it done for human rights and for the united states of america. putin is making a case here that a lot of american critics of the administration -- conservative and liberal -- have been making. >> it rubs the u.s.'s nose in iraq and afghanistan. it says something to the fkt of why does the government want to repeat recent mistakes referring to iraq and afghanistan. what do you make of the idea that president putin is trying to run the united states and private diplomacy. trying to speak with our secretary of state and at the same time he goes out to speak to the american people by this op-ed . >> well, the russians have their own oh interests. what putin is doing is reaching out to the anti-war community and the united states. the anti-interventionist community on syria which as we know recently is probably

>> i wouldn't rule out the possibility he used them to call the bluff of the united states. >> his situationwas six or eight months ago. so if it's using chemical weapons is a measure of desperation, he use less desperate now than he was back in january. that's why it's puzzling. >> you could also make the argument that it was designed to just sow terror and crush the opposition. you kill the women and children and it weakens the fighters at the front. >> they got the strategic town on the border, but if you look at the other cities around the country, they're still really hunkered down in aleppo, having a tough time. in damascus, they were being fought back. >> do you think the administration, which suddenly secretary kerry today was saying the opposition is actually there's a wave of moderation now taking place in the opposition, whereas there had been reports about the muslim front. >> it's a romantic idea to support. there's an element within that rebel movement that is usable. but a year ago, that would have worked. in that gap they went from being disorganized to being fractured. you c

but congress has enacted laws that prevent the administration from using us funds to transfer detainees to the united states to be tried or imprisoned. there are no human rights abuses occurring at guantanamo bay house republicans are trying to re-impose the ban on transfers back to yemen. and at the first congressional hearing on guantanamo in four years, closing it seems more controversial than ever. i have a hard time seeing how it is responsible to shut down our detention facilities and send these individuals home where they almost sure would be released and almost surely would return to threaten and kill more americans. republican congressman mike pompeo sits on the house intelligence committee. wab: do you support the right to a fair trial? pompeo: i support the absolute right for those military tribunals to move forward down at guantanamo bay. wab: there are indefinite detainees meaning people who are not cleared for transfer, and yet there's not sufficient evidence to carry them to a military tribunal. so doesn't that violate the right to a fair trial? we are still at war. and we have capture

with the picture on the front of the paper really didn't matter at that point. >> it makes us all feel unitedakes us feel like we're bigger than just ourselves. >> it's not until we're challenged that we reach back at what makes us americans and what that is and what the symbol is is the flag. >> as you see there, it says the flag is still missing. cnn received credible tips on what may have happened to it. jason carroll is here with that part of the story. i understand a dozen tips have come in. >> absolutely. speaking with the film maker saying a dozen coming in as we speak. they call them credible because many have in fact, led them to a flag, a flag at ground zero, just not the flag. >> and it's interesting, the people whose flag it was originally, they had a yacht, i guess, parked nearby ground zero and the firefighters grabbed the flag off that yacht and that's how they knew once it was returned to the yacht owners, wait, this flag doesn't fit. >> here is what is interesting. shirley dreyfus and her husband, the original owners of this particular flag, they are basically the only ones w

thank you for talking with us. >>> hassan rouhani is calling for a dialogue with the united states. it is an optimistic shift in the longstanding relationship of the two countries. rouhani writes, quote, a constructive approach to diplomacy does not mean relinquishing one's rights. it means engaging with one's counterparts on the basis of mutual respect. we must work together to end the unhealthy rivalries that drive us apart. here to discuss row tha rouhanis message. >> thank for having me. >> we never heard this tone, we certainly never heard it from former president ahmadinejad. president rouhani said he wants a constructive interaction with the world. what do you make of this? >> i think it's a change in tone. it's a step. it's welcome. we did have a more positive tone than years ago. but what we have not seen is change in ira iranian reaction d policies to this point. they're still running ahead for rich uranium. if they wanted a civilian nuclear program that's achiev achievable in corporation with the iaea. so we have to see some changes there is. we still have iran supporting

weapons can only be used by specialized units. the whole story doesn't hold together. it is not realistic. no, we didn't. in one word, we didn't use any chemical weapons. >> pat, if the end of the story is no chemical weapons though the president was clumsy in how he handled this, perhaps president putin had to bail him out. doesn't he get credit for this long term if that's the product here. >> my guess is we won't get all the chemical weapons out any time soon. even if he starts. i think assad will use this to, b quote, extort concessions from the united states and elsewhere saying, look, for me to get them out we have to stop this bloody war. you have to stop helping these rebels. you have al qaeda and the rebels. we have to have a truce, some kind of oh deal where we can have peace. that way we can get the weapons out. that's what will happen. i think the russians -- >> is that a bad thing? >> bottom line is i don't want al qaeda in power in syria. they will use any weapon they can get and the sanctuaries there to attack americ

why should you use a term in the united states anding gland and maybe other countries and use anotherm in syria. this is double standard that we don't accept. >> charlie: i once asked you what you feared the most and you said the end of syria as a secular state. is that end already here? >> according to what we've been seeing recently in the area where the terrorist controlled, where they band people from going to schools then young man from shaving their beards and women have to wear -- to be covered from top to toe from, head to toe. let's say the taliban in afghanistan, secular state should reflect this society if you don't get freed of those terrorists of course it will influence at least the new and coming generations. this will be eroding. >> charlie: mr. president. thank you for allowing us to have a conversation about syria and a war that is within as well as the future of the country. thank you. >> thank you for coming to syria. an, hovnan >> this is nightly business report, with tyler matheson and suesie garing. >> you get close to iconic landmarks, to local life, to cultura

i don't think assad is a threat to use chemical weapons against the united states or israel. as for some of the people in the rebel community, i think they are a real threat to use them. >> you know, pat, when you talk about the chemical weapons and the whole idea that president putin proposed is that syria secured -- hand over the chemical weapons to the international community and they would be dismantled. that of course -- how in the world will we be certain syria is identifying all its stockpiles? >> we are not going to be. i will tell you this. russia is the player here. it is the big player, not the united states. russia alone has the lines to assad. russia alone can get assad to identify where the weapons are. he alone can get assad to tell him where to go to pick up the weapons. we don't have contact there at all. for the short term we have to rely upon russia. ms albright once said the united states is the indispensable nation. for the next few weeks, russia is the indispensable nation. >> what do you make of the fact that in part of the op-ed ed by president putin he

they cannot be used by any other units or similar traditional units. istic not true. the government, we have evidence that the terrorist group has used sarin gas, and those evidenced -- those evidence evidenced -- those evidence >> the ruggles satellite seems to be all these allegations at the 21st of august, they said that they have information that the rocket launched from another area. so, why to ignore this point of view. the whole story doesn't even hold together. 2, so in one word we didn't use any chemical weapons. pos because if you want to use it, you would harm your troops, you would have harmed the tens of thousands of civilians living -- >> will you allow more investigation? will you allow a u.n. investigators to come in, maybe to further investigate this attack as you say other attacks, there is something like 14 different attacks where accusations are being made on both sides? and even a u.n. team to decide on the culpability, the blame for this attack? you will allow those u.n. teams to come in. >> we invited come to syria first in march.

date and our partners and degrade syria's use -- capacity to use those weapons in the future. that the united states has a specific military plan to achieve the goal of responding to the use of weapons of mass destruction by the syrian government, and that the use of military force is consistent with protocols of u.s. strategy toward syria including achieving a negotiated settlement to the conflict. it has the limitation specifying that the resolution does not authorize the use of the united states armed forces on the ground in syria for the purpose of combat operations to ensure that there be no boots on the ground. the authorization would end after 60 days with the president having the authority to request and certify another 30 days and congress having the power to pass a resolution of disapproval. strategy fornited syria including a copper hence of review of economic and military policy toward syria. it requires a report to congress on the status of those military operations. let me thank senator corker and all the members of the committee for working together in the interest of the ameri

it has been said before and should be said again there is far more that unites us than divides us. earlier about working through college and you think you pulled yourself up by your boot straps, that's amazing and what everyone should be able to do. we need to know how to get there. >> probably are going to have and we will say this and my hope for you all because i want you all to succeed, even the liberals, especially him. once you pay the taxes, i want you to see me and we will talk. i am worried that all this that we conditioned the american people to think the government is the answer. if i can give you one small piece of advice, this goes to what you are saying, the more you depend on yourself and work hard, the more likely you are going to be sfblg. when you look outside yourself, the government can't save you. that will be my only bit of advice. you have been a great audience. give yourself a big hand. you did a great job. thank you all. that is all the time we have left. thank you for being with us. the news continues. ♪ >> alisyn: good morning, everybody. thanks so much f

in the other major development tonight, secretary kerry told us that the united states is "grateful to iran" for its sudden willingness to negotiate over its nuclear program. iran has been suffering under severe economic sanctions because of its nuclear ambition, and kerry was specific with us about what the united states wants to see to make sure that the iranians are not building a bomb. bomb. give me an example, one concrete step, one thing they can do to assure the world that they're giving up their ambitions. >> they could immediately open up inspection of the facility, a secret facility, underground in the mountains, fortified and unquestionably not something that a peaceful program would be doing. they could immediately sign the protocols, the additional protocol of the international community regarding inspections. they could offer to cease voluntarily to 7 take enrichment above a certain level, keep it at a low level because there's no need to have it at a higher level for a peaceful program. there are any number of things they could do, scott. >> pelley: what bold step could

. >> it's as united us around a couple of very important principles. it give us a chance to vote for delay of this train wreck that the democrats on the senate side called it. so i think we're on the right path. >> house democrats are meeting behind closed doors talking about messaging and strategy right now. house republicans plan to have a similar meeting around 8:30 tonight. we expect the votes to come later this evening. but the stand-off is likely to resume regardless of the outcome. we've got a statement here from house speaker john boehner issued a little while ago talking about what exactly it has. what mr. boehner has said in effect amounts to a we're not going to move. there will be two amendments. the first delays the president's health care law by one year and the second permanently repeal the obamacare's medical device tax that's sending jobs overseas. we will vote on a measure to insure our troops get paid no matter what. recognition from republicans that have shut down is still possible. harry reid responded again and this time said to be

used by bashar al-assad. three people in all of history. if the united states, knowing it and knowing that we have drawn the line that the world has drawn with us, is unable to stand up and confront that, it is an absolute certainty that gas will proliferate. we've had a syringe gas in the -- sarin gas in the tokyo subway. -- don't know how we could live with that. is there a difference between gas and nuclear weapons? i suppose it would depend on the scale. it would depend on the scale. the world decided that chemical, biological and nuclear are prohibited in warfare. we as a nation and as a global community have struggled to try to enforce that through the years. it is hard for me to imagine that the united states would not stand with world against that. is it going to be effective? i am convinced that what we can possibilities the of more use of gas and to create -- degrade his capacity to use this weapon. i think it is imperative for us to take that step. differentificantly from what took place in iraq originally with respect to weapons that we didn'

why should you use a term in the united states anding gland and maybe other countries and use anotherm in syria. this is double standard that we don't accept. >> charlie: i once asked you what you feared the most and you said the end of syria as a secular state. is that end already here? >> according to what we've been seeing recently in the area where the terrorist controlled, where they band people from going to schools then young man from shaving their beards and women have to wear -- to be covered from top to toe from, head to toe. let's say the taliban in afghanistan, secular state should reflect this society if you don't get freed of those terrorists of course it will influence at least the new and coming generations. this will be eroding. >> charlie: mr. president. thank you for allowing us to have a conversation about syria and a war that is within as well as the future of the country. thank you. >> thank you for coming to syria. an, hovnan >> this is nightly business report, with tyler matheson and suesie garing. >> you get close to iconic landmarks, to local life, to cultura

that's why we're seeing all this increased helicopter activity and a lot of, probably, military units usinghatever censors they have to figure out what's going on inside. >> and we understand that the pentagon has offered to give whatever assistance kenya wants. kenya has not requested it. however, we understand that variations of kenyan law enforcement are on the ground, working, alongside israeli forces. this westgate mall is owned by an israeli. give me an idea what kind of cooperation is taking place here, as they try to end this standoff taking place, involving kenyan authorities and israeli authorities there in nairobi. >> yeah, the israeli special forces bring unique capabilities and expertise. they have years of experience doing this and they have worked with the kenyans for decades on just these sorts of things. it's not surprising that the israelis are on the ground there and assisting. and of course you've got a lot of israeli business interests in kenya, including this mall. so the israelis will give them capabilities that maybe the kenyans don't have, some plea expertise they d