us crisis. diplomacy is in full swing. the recently reignited middle east conflict is just one of the many crises and wars that the us is currently having to deal with. president biden has made a personal visit to israel and met prime minister netanyahu following the earlier deployment deal with. president biden has made a personal visit to of two us aircraft carriers to the mediterranean to deter deal with. president biden has made a personal visit to at the same time, the us government is also supplying weapons and financial support in the russian war of aggression against ukraine. a situation that many in the us have weapons and financial support in the russian war of aggression started to find overwhelming. meanwhile, china america's primary geopolitical rival is busy expanding its global influence at the silk road summit. is the us having too many balls to juggle at once and could she and putin ultimately be the ones to reap the benefits to the point? we ask superpower on the strain. how many global conflicts can the us cope with? hello and welcome to,

well, with that we will end this very sombre discussion here, daniel levy, president of the us middle east project and former adviser to be is really government. thank you so much for joining us today. thank she stays. so what's the bottom line is really, is were hit in such a way that they thought impossible. and this fuels or outrage, whether they're progressive, conservative, far right. zealots, wherever they are, they say they want, the perpetrators wiped out. but it's not going to be an easy or neat process. an innocent palestinians are going to die by the hundreds every day. this could escalate and i mean, dramatically escalate and in the west. it's hard to imagine that cooler heads are going to prevail. my guest today daniel levy has always told me that the palestine is real device is never going to simmer down and just go away on its own. it will always come back screaming back unless it's result. the events of this month really prove his point. the conflicts, the dormant and low level for years and years, but now it's back big time with or without the how mazda attacks of october

well, with that we will end this very sombre discussion here, daniel levy, president of the us middle east project and former adviser to be is really government. thank you so much for joining us today. thank she stays. so what's the bottom line is really, is were hit in such a way that they thought impossible. and this fuels or outrage, whether they're progressive, conservative, far right. zealots, wherever they are, they say they want, the perpetrators wiped out. but it's not going to be an easy or neat process. an innocent palestinians are going to die by the hundreds every day. this could escalate and i mean, dramatically escalate and in the west. it's hard to imagine that cooler heads are going to prevail. my guest today daniel levy has always told me that the palestine is real device is never going to simmer down and just go away on its own. it will always come back screaming back unless it's result. the events of this month really prove his point. the conflicts, the dormant and low level for years and years, but now it's back big time with or without the how mazda attacks of october

many us presents get embroiled in middle east policy. but i think at one point present, bide, will have to pivot towards his re election. me go to use has been of shooting away from the middle east for some time and focusing more on china and bus effect. but now be was feel the need to focus more on the middle east. what do you say about that? back in the role of global should have as well as we can clearly see is when the us started to retreat from certain areas of the world situation got worse. one of the reasons is that the europeans been not capable of filling the gap themselves. but now we see america has to be a decisive factor in many uh, crisis that we have your pin unity when it comes to supporting your training construction. the question is which you've made of the by the industry. so it's a lot, a new chief went up to your plants themselves, but i agree with sort of, i mean, if the u. s. has to dedicate so many resources to the conflicts we are talking about. i think the europeans have to step up, especially when it comes to su

many us presents get embroiled in middle east policy. but i think at one point present, bide, will have to pivot towards his re election. may go to use has been of shooting away from the middle east for some time and focusing more on china and passively with now be was feel the need to focus more on the middle east. what do you say about their back in the role of global share of or so what we can clearly see is when the us started to retreat from certain areas of the world to situation got worse. one of the reasons is that the europeans been not capable of filling the gap themselves . but now we see america has to be a decisive factor in many uh, crisis that we have your pin unity when it comes to supporting your training construction. the question is, which you've made of the butler industry. so it's a lot, a new chief went up to europeans themselves, but i agree with sort of, i mean, if the u. s. has to dedicate so many resources to the conflicts we are talking about. i think the europeans have to step up, especially when it comes to su

many us presents get embroiled in middle east policy. but i think at one point present vide, will have to pivot towards his re election. may go to use has been of shooting away from the middle east for some time and focusing more on china and plastic with now be was feel the need to focus more on the middle east. what do you say about the back in the role of global should have as well as we can clearly see is when the us started to retreat from certain areas of the world, the situation got worse. one of the reasons is that the europeans been not capable of filling the gap themselves. but now we see america has to be a decisive factor in many uh, crisis that we have your pin unity when it comes to supporting your training instruction. the question is which you've made of to by the industry. so it's a lot in the treatment of to your patients themselves. but i agree with sort of, i mean, if the u. s. has to dedicate so many resources to the conflicts we are talking about. i think the europeans have to step up, especially when it comes to sup

let's be to the the use middle east analyst genres on us in, in the studio with me now for more of shawnee until a little bit more about what we can expect to come out of these talks in cairo today, a cc, the president of, of egypt he's very much concerned, he has a lot of pressure from within to support the palestinians, but he doesn't want to see any palestinian refugees on addiction ground and he's feels helpless. you know, we, he, we see now the ha ha costing opening. but this is very emotional. you know, way of helping to the huge problem. his eyes is on how to solve the, the, the future of the palestinian problem. he's hoping by 1st of all, this act of solidarity that he brings in a lot of the leaders from europe to counter a bit of what we've seen so far with lost support for israel. he wants to counter that with a bit of a pledge to support the palestinians on the long run. and this of course is quite limited because we don't have as well we don't have the us on the annual around this table. but the junctions just like the jordanians both have peace agreements with israel. they fee

the focus of to us is necessarily very much on the middle east into us as the only one really which went to, to a storage chief of solution in the, in the middle east. so it's again the connection between the, between the different conflicts but, but i'm convinced we need to step up now to support ukraine to diff biden more headspace to work also on other issues. and also to build a bridge to what's the result of discussion into us. i think if the europeans would contribute more and be on, i love it when it comes to head for your brain. also the whole argument for a bunch. it would be either within the i'd like to come back to you cleaning a bit. the us government currently is not only facing challenges on the international front, but it also and competing significant holders and the domestic politics, particularly from the republicans as domestic politics. us person and fight and took office with the aim of reconciling a deeply divided society. after the polarizing trump years, he wanted to bring the political camps closer together so far without success. there was chaos in the house of

emily earlier, don't use middle east analyst shawny was on is gave us some perspective about what so unusual about this morning's attacks as well. everything is unusual. i know as, as we are used to waves of attacks and from gauze of rockets towards israel and retaliation of his realities. air force on to cause a series. and this time it seems, feels and very, very different. for the ro, we've never seen such a coordinated attack coming from all directions that the artillery that we're seeing coming from cause of towards israel. that started at 6 o'clock in the morning. that was just to give cover to the forces on the ground that managed to break through the border defense us and get into is really settlements and towns and cities in the south. and part of israel we have seen over 15 is really towns under siege with civilians, kids, families under sort of a all being sheltered in their houses, trying to a fight off a militant must of a. so it newton's from the, from us coming over the street by street in is really towns, this is something we've never seen before. so the artillery tha

we have a fellow at the centre for middle east policy. he told us this. a, middle east policy. ., ., , middle east policy. he told us this. ., ., , ~ ., this. a lot of people like to say that — this. a lot of people like to say that israel _ this. a lot of people like to say that israel takes - this. a lot of people like to say that israel takes greatl say that israel takes great caution to prevent all limit civilian casualties, but that simply hasn't been born out by the facts. not in this conflict and not in previous ones. mai; and not in previous ones. may is our and not in previous ones. may is your response _ and not in previous ones. may is your response to _ and not in previous ones. may is your response to that? again, i leave it to what i said before. no—one wants to see more innocent life taken here. one of the great things about our relationship with israel is as two democracies, we really do respect the rule of law and the law of war specifically. i of law and the law of war specifically.— of law and the law of war secificall . ., ., ~ specifically. i would also like

many us presents get embroiled in middle east policy. but i think at one point present, bide, will have to pivot towards his re election. may go to use has been of shooting away from the middle east for some time and focusing more on china and buses. but now be was feel the need to focus more on the middle east. what do you say about their back in the role of global share of as well as we can clearly see is when the us started to retreat from certain areas of the world, the situation got worse. one of the reasons is that the europeans been not capable of filling the gap themselves. but now we see america has to be a decisive factor in many uh, crisis that we have your pin unity when it comes to supporting your training construction. the question is the chief ment of department industry, so that's a lot the new chief went up to europeans themselves, but i agree with sort of i mean, if the us has to dedicate so many resources to the conflicts we are talking about, i think the europeans have to step up, especially when it comes to supporting

with me is daniel levy who is president of the us middle east project based in the us but, more importantly the peace negotiating team of israel during earlier talks. what no—one will tell you today is the israeli security establishment has been dealing with hamas for the 16 years it's been in charge in gaza, whether it is ceaseless, whether it is ceasefires, prolonged periods of calm. israel has called up over 300,000 reservists ready to move in. and the worst, the images and the realities of what's happening to the palestinians, as this is prolonged get. because if israel has formed war cabinet i doubt that is with the attention is limited time duration. it feels like they're setting up for something that really has longevity and therefore an expansiveness to it. the elected head of the provisional government, david ben—gurion, arrives to read the proclamation of a new nation. this conflict has deep roots in history. the state of israel was declared in 1948 as a home forjews, many of whom had left europe for the middle east following the horrors of the holocaust. the refugees from memorie

well, with that we will end this very somber discussion here, daniel levy, president of the us middle east project and former advisor to v as really government. thank you so much for joining us today. thanks you, steve. so what's the bottom line is really, is were hit in such a way that they thought impossible. and this fuels are outraged whether they're progressive, conservative, far, right. zealous. wherever they are, they say they want, the perpetrators wiped out. but it's not going to be easy or neat process. an innocent palestinians are going to die by the hundreds every day. this could escalate and i mean, dramatically escalate and in the west. it's hard to imagine that cooler heads are going to prevail. my guest today daniel levy has always told me that the palestine is real device is never going to simmer down and just go away on its own. it will always come back screaming back unless it's result. the events of this month really prove his point. the conflicts, the dormant and low level for years and years, but now it's back big time with or without the hamas attacks of october 7th,

as i'm joined in the studio now by dw use, middle east analyst shawnee, it rose on us. i saw that you had a chance to watch biden's comments in their entirety. what stood out to you. they're not. you seem personally very much touched at. you see, this is the moment that he feels that he really needs to be sort of the, the adult of the world. maybe, you know, bringing calm but also security and confidence with him and, and also let's keep in mind he's in israel, but his audience is mostly sitting in the us. we're in this this morning hours and he is soon entering election a very intense elections session. he's happy to have the moment to shine as the strong leader of showing to the world his position, but at the same time, also, no doubt, this is something pressing touching him. he is bringing news, you know, his, his main goal was to bring results and that is allowing a to come into cause a he sees the pressure, he knows it's important. and having had the agreement by these are the government to get 8 into gaza. that's a main goal that he had set for himself and he succ

us, but what was discussed today? yes, alexander, i would say that it’s not that the middle east issue is not the main issue for us, butdirectly affects us, with the middle east, we’ll see how it all turns out, the ukrainian crisis continues to be discussed at the security council , although of course it is clear that the western state now attention has turned to the emerging crisis in the middle east, however, we held this meeting, you know, we already have such a tradition that our western former partners. they know, in response to their meetings, where they are trying to highlight the humanitarian aspects of the situation in ukraine in the way they need, we are requesting a meeting on any topics that are inconvenient for them, which they would prefer not to touch upon, in particular, the supply of weapons to ukraine from western states, which naturally influence the prospects peaceful resolution of the ukrainian crisis is a topic that we constantly keep under review, it arouses great interest and there is always some new material on it. so we took advantage of today’s meeting to summarize in our speech all the new d

countries of the need is that to be through these ready, prime minister and president are to use middle east, a very chief maya for notion that reports on how europe in nation that's supporting as well as the war gains from us, intensifies and to the situation and is rose, north is getting more more tens these of a, his viola, israel became a very popular destination. indeed for world leaders where the french president bean, the later is had a state to made these really prime minister experts say it is unclear exactly what goals all those mirrors are trying to achieve. but these rarely position is quite clear a during the meeting with my chronic and yahoo tried to convince him that her mas poses a global fred and therefore shouldn't be confronted globally. let's take a listen. we are in a war between barbarism and civilization. juncture of a soul to visit it as real said the camaros or the new nazi's. and as in the 2nd world war, when the allies fully supported the french anti nazi resistance. today the international community is uniting and supportive israel for come us barbarism. not only

but just tell us a bit about how this is seen in the us because you study the us and it's policy towards the middle east. i mean, i watch us media as well. in fact i, i, i live most of the time in new york, although i'm currently in though 22 us citizens killed. 17 missing and may be held prisoner. do you think the prison, the cost of it and the would hostage is the one that's being used in the us media? do you think that perhaps explain some of the reporting and then some of the actions by the administration? well, certainly i think, you know, part of it is the media coverage. i think there's a narrative that immediately takes hold. the moment events like this, you know, happened. and that narrative tends to be in a kind of a very one dimensional way. it will pay $1.00 side as an aggressor paint one side is victim, and then erase all history, all context, all even recent events as if you know, everything just sort of occurs in this bubble in this vacuum on the day of, of, you know, these, these horrific events, and so i think somebody else to update or part of it, what can i ask you to the historical c

political and economic power structures traditionally dominated by washington, particularly in the us middle eastcreasingly difficult to control the various regional powers. experts from the american conservative are confident that the americans will try to develop relations with ukraine according to the israeli model, and the simple scheme is for kiev to depend on funding from washington outside of nato. western politicians say that this plan has already begun to be implemented without euphemisms. ukrainians cannot defend themselves without our strong support. i know a quick way to end the war, i know that i will stop supporting ukraine war will end with the surrender of the ukrainians, is this the way we want to end the war? however. this format, as noted in the american conservative material, will lead to failure. the israeli model should be treated as a cautionary tale, but not as a panacea. the only option for resolving the conflict in ukraine, according to the author of the material, is constructive negotiations. natalya goncharova, vesti. president of slovakia zuzanna capatova today appoin

us right now. thanks. verizon, pharaoh's max of middle east expert joining us from washington dc. let's take a look at what some other developments in the conflict german chancellor or shelves as confirmed. he'll visit israel and to show solidarity following him on his terror attacks. shouts will fly to israel on choose day, making him the 1st world leader to visit the country since the attacks. the chancellor will then travel on to egypt and to assess these humanitarian situation in the gaza strip. a huge european union has said it plans to launch or humanitarian aid card or to guys of egypt, european commission president, or is it a funder line? says the 1st flights to egypt will begin later this week. she says that the you will also have triple 84 civilians in gaza, 275000000 euros. they were, brings from as i suspect they've done and remains that large following and alleged her attack in the belgian capital brussels. 2 swedish citizens were shocked at late on monday. the city is now on the country's highest terror alert. witnesses have been describing the moment when the attac

earlier, i spoke to daniel levy, the president of the us middle east project and a former israeli negotiatorme about the possible ways of returning the hostages. well, of course, heartbreaking to hear amit. of course, the israeli deterrence was caught by surprise, the israeli military was caught by surprise, the israeli intelligence — considered to be one of the most highly vaunted and respected in the world — caught by surprise. this, of course, has to be about making sure that all of those civilians who've been taken can return safely, but i fear that if we end the conversation there, maryam, we may have a similar conversation sometime in the not—too—distant future. because what we haven't talked about is, why is there a popular resistance movement, a militant movement in gaza amongst the palestinians, resorting to these kinds of tactics? and the sad truth is that, yes, war is terrible, war is terrible anywhere, but the solution is not going to be a military one. the solution is going to have to be a political one, which takes care not only of amit�*s friend, but also addresses the fact th

that the middle east was telling us that are on the brink of what? fin time. oh begone, we are on the brink of what? , ~' ., of what? on the brink of disaster. that is where _ of what? on the brink of disaster. that is where we _ of what? on the brink of disaster. that is where we are. _ of what? on the brink of disaster. that is where we are. this - of what? on the brink of disaster. that is where we are. this speaks j of what? on the brink of disaster. i that is where we are. this speaks of the hubris of western governments and the inattentiveness to a crisis that those of us that work on the middle east and have been watching new has been simmering for so long. and it has been left unattended and this is where we are. on a brink of a catastrophe that is going to be passed down to further generations. the israelis have the right and has made the point that they needed to respond to hamas and to decapitate the leadership of hamas and they will do that. but it is an extraordinary order to evacuate 1 million people, to put hosp

from us reportedly said to hostages could be released unto the cease fire was agreed to be how much visit to russia is indicative of the close ties. russia has to own key players in the middle east, where the moscow uses that to push for peace in the region is still an open question. but here's more on what's at stake for russia in this conflict. the joe biden left shows an amount on my claim to some of the, for our leaders to have made the trip to his ro in recent weeks, each choosing to make the show of support, their respective pos differences with benjamin netanyahu, but not vladimir putin. the russian president took over a week to even cool netanyahu, and that's despite more than 20 worse initials confirmed, killed in the how much attack instead, pretend has repeatedly blamed us policy for triggering waste and events. criticize israel holding gordon's quote collectively responsible. what exactly is the kremlin trying to achieve with the stones portends relationship with the global south is actually the only relationship in the world that he can now developed. and these are usually very and phase rainy countries or moderate lamp, these rarely a but anyway, those that suppose

and in london, daniel levy, president of the us middle east project, he's also formalize ready, negotiator and advisor to the office. so former israeli prime minister it who is the rock. thank you all for being on inside story. mission will stuff about go to you in my life. i can start with you. there's a lot of concern right now about what might come next after this to fries a time by hamas. israel has said they'll be no food, no water, no electricity to guys because of this attack, how worried are you about? what might come next? we had absolutely what it and what you have just described to top know electricity . and also applies means that nothing you know is going back to think of an act of total collective punishment against the palestinian population. i'm guessing, i guess 2200000 people, but most of them that this such as the government and there's that i and i in the system using the word fascist, is threatening ethnic cleansing goes to a point. 2000000 people. how close nothing, you know, 12200000 people living in garza. a very small area of no more than 100. 40 square miles that

and does that show us, is that to the trembling, loyal media using the middle east conflict to explain the process of what ukraine in one sentence to put it one sentence. the west is to blame, especially the usa and euro is a part of the best. but of course, there are other interest as well. in any case, russia would like to be seen in a different light and the different spots as an aggressor in the international context. russia wants to play an important role in the piece process again as a mediator with additionally has good connections to both sides of the conflict of israel and to the other students. just based on what you're saying, because the restaurant does have, as you point out, a ties with all the key players, these around iran, syria, a modest but as to into thought a does about show really intent to use this influence to resolve matters or more for its own self interest to me. i think russia has definitely been using the east context and to last come makes no secret of its close ties, especially how most interestingly is it travelling doesn't to pull him off at terrorist o

and in london, daniel levy, president of the us middle east project, he's also formalize ready, negotiator and advisor to the office. so former israeli prime minister a who is for rock. thank you all for being on inside story. mission will stuff about go to you in my life. i can start with you. there's a lot of concern right now about what might come next after a surprise, a time by hamas. israel has said they'll be no food, no water, no electricity to guys because of this attack, how worried are you about? what might come next? we had absolutely what it and what you have just described to top know electricity . and also applies means that nothing you know is going back to think of an act of total collective punishment against the palestinian population. i'm guessing, i guess 2200000 people. but most of them that this fascist government. and there's that i and i in the system using the word fascist, is threatening ethnic cleansing goes to a point. 2000000 people. how close nothing, you know, 12200000 people living in garza. a very small area of no more than 140 square miles that they shoul

from us reportedly said no hostages could be released unto the cease fire was agreed to the homeless visit to russia is indicative of the close ties. russia has to all the key players in the middle east, where the moscow uses that to push for peace in the region. you're still an open question, but here's mol, on what's at stake for russia. in this conflict. the joe biden left shows clement or my client to some of the far leaders to made the trip to his ro in recent weeks, each choosing to make the show of support. their respective cost differences with benjamin netanyahu. but not letting me put you in the russian president took over a week to even cool netanyahu, and that's despite more than 20 worse initials, confirmed killed, and how much attack instead, pretend has repeatedly blames us policy for triggering waste and events criticized israel, holding gordon's quote collectively responsible what exactly is the kremlin trying to achieve with the stones? putting this relationship with the global south is actually the only relationship in the world that he can now developed. and these are usually very and phase rainy countries or moderate lamp. these rarely a but anyway, those that su

and in london, daniel levy, president of the us middle east project. he's also formalize ready negotiator and advisor to the office. so former israeli prime minister it who it's for. ok, thank you all for being on inside story, mr. and we'll stop and go to you in all my life. i can start with you. there's a lot of concern right now about what might come next after a surprise attack by hamas. israel has said they'll be no food, no water, no electricity to guys, because of this attack, how worried are you about? what might come next? we had absolutely what it and what you've just described to dep no electricity. and also applies means that nothing you know is going back to think of an act of total collective punishment against the participating and population of guessing. i guess 2200000 people, but most of them that this such as the government and there's that i and i in the system using the word fascist, is directed inc, ethnic cleansing goes to a point. 2000000 people. how close nothing, you know, 12200000 people living in garza. a very small area of

i spoke to middle east expert fair us and mike side from the middle east institute. i started by asking them whether jo biden's visit on wednesday provides any hope of a de escalation of the conflict between israel and thomas. but not much. it's very clear that the use of ministration did not want to invest the prestige of the presidency of having as in binding on the ground. and israel, without the least securing salting sessions from the israel, is so what we heard today, and this information is still very luminary, is that there is an agreement on humanitarian aid opening a humanitarian court, or that would provide some relief for the citizens of guys that had been under siege an epic trap. suffering with no water, no electricity in my medicine is running out. so the president will be on the ground and israel, but he will also go to jordan and where he will meet the king of jordan, the president of palestinian authority, as well as the president of egypt. i think that the american a here is very clear. israel has the right to defend itself is something that we kee

daniel levy, president of the us middle east project, he's also formalized ready negotiator and advisor to the office. so former israeli prime minister, a who to per ok. thank you all for being on inside story mr. most stuff about go to you in my life. i can start with you. there's a lot of concern right now about what might come next after this to fries a time by hamas. israel has said they'll be no food, no water, no electricity to guys. because of this attack, how worried are you about? what might come next? we had absolutely what it and what you've just described to talk, no electricity and most applies means that nothing you know is going back to think of an act of total collective punishment against the palestinian population of guess. i guess 2200000 people, but most of them that this such as the government, the news that i learned in the system using the word fascist, is directed inc, ethnic cleansing goes to a point. 2000000 people. how close that then you know, 12200000 people living in garza a very small area of no more than 100. 40 square miles that day. so i believe that ho

also us middle east policy expert and ceo of the engaged foundation. u for us for the last six hours or so, we have been looking at very dramatic images from the sky over gaza a large scale bombardment there. strong words from the idf earlier as well. do you think this is the beginning of the next phase of this much talked about ground invasion. , , ., invasion. yes, i believe that it is. shots _ invasion. yes, i believe that it is. shots from _ invasion. yes, i believe that it is. shots from gaza - invasion. yes, i believe that it is. shots from gaza are i it is. shots from gaza are terrifying. if you can imagine the people, excuse me, underneath having that bombardment on their heads and around them. hopefully this is around them. hopefully this is a phase that will be as quick as possible, but the reality is that the level of death and destruction is going to be unimaginable for us until we see it afterwards.— unimaginable for us until we see it afterwards. well, what is our see it afterwards. well, what is your view? _ see it afterwards. well, what

we use hilton on is director of the middle east and north africa program at the international crisis group. it joins us from brussels use use that is the saudi arabia stance. it's place in this israel cause a conflict. well, the reason critical findings and isn't garza is pushing saudi arabia on. notice that it cannot proceed to the way it's for it to do before october 7th, which was to, to find a way to normalize relations with, as well as long as the terms were. right. and then one of those terms for especially the mass for the united states, like security guarantees and to the right to develop a peaceful nuclear program. and assuming an issue was on that list, but it was it rank joe. but now we see it's a new fight and stuff. the issue has come right back up. and so it's very hard to see how. so any rate we can proceed with any kind of normalization with israel without seriously tackling the, the question of these really understanding and conflict roughly speaking, so not just but just hoping it goes up, but also what is happening in the west bank the occupied west bank and east je

the us in the middle east because of china is much greater reliance on energy from the middle east than the usb us going back is riley, is that it has done on a critically without a droid pulling israel back. but china has more at stake. well, it does, but the u. s. would not go and stay right now. it's concerned about inflation. the global or oil prices are already spiking. you're already starting to see a spikes also in, um, uh for la as this is going to lead to more inflation in the u. s. that is not going to be welcome. they might get a little bit of bump out of selling excess oil or across the seas. but this is a global issue we've had showed our, you know, we have ukraine and now we have a israel. these are undermining the very basic structure of our economy, which is about a global supply system or demand grades, jobs, and opportunities. right now, none of that is happening. okay. i show you written that you've thought it might be better for india to take a more neutral stands. but there's a lot more in this where india to back israel in terms of defense in terms of trade and def