they are basing it on sum of the parts valuation.y it is worth about 650 million. >>> we are going for more sunshine with a pop by ebay. >> you look at the strength from sources like pay pal and deals with fed ex and some of the creditors out there. you look at it on a pu level. amazon trades. this trades in a 17 and lower if you go with the forward. very inexpensive stock. and this is the super bowl for them. this is what they understand. online is why they are killing it. >> we have a drop for mcdonalds. what do you reckon about mcdonalds? >> we talked about the executive turnover. worried about same story sales downgraded to neutral. nobody is going to put a sell on a company. it is like calling a new mother's baby ugly. it is not going to happen. it's still in the lower half of the recent range but you know the company is doing pretty well. >> did your mother ever get over it, scott? >> and look at the baby. >>> and we also have a pop for the 12 days of christmas. it turns out the cost of the 364 items repeated has jumped 6% this

the valuation is cheap here. i don't know if it will ever get fairly -- i woulding delighted if we make it halfway to there, but at this valuation, and i know everyone's like, you can't count the cash, maybe they do something with that cash, maybe we see something -- >> something not stupid. >> there you go. >> i think it might be. >> that's thinking harvard girl. >> it may be a special dividend between now and year end. $60 billion in cash. >> uncertain dividend tech rate. >> that hasn't been the case for a long time? >> no, to answer -- the stock, the performance of the stock is priced in this pc decline, i think microsoft is diversified enough where the stocks should be higher based on some of the other businesses they're involved in, so i'm in the simon baker camp, we've been in that camp for a while, you're not going to get buried on the down side, we said that a number of times, and i still think there's some significant upside here, stock you can own and hang out in. >> tech may have led the rallies today,

keith, cat. >> valuation, to be clear, is not a catalyst.f that's your catalyst, stop right there. with cat people are thinking nine to ten bucks. that won't happen. think 20% to 30% lower on earnings. we have a stock that looks relatively expensive. you have to deal with the ongoing catalyst that the management team has to come to jesus guiding down numbers. this is the issue with value traps. it will be. a short seller like me likes it when people call a stock cheap. >> dan, microsoft. >> microsoft fits in. to me this stock was up 27% at some point in this year alone. it's practically unchanged. we have a fortress balance sheet that trades at nine times earnings. 3.5% dividend. paid special dividends back. this company destroys shareholder value. they wrote down almost the entire acquisition price of aquantityive. there is no innovation here. you have to know why you are buying a stock like microsoft. valuation is not a catalyst. you have to find product cycles. i think this thing goes probably to $20 over the next couple of years. >> let'

the idea of don't set the valuation at this first round. say this is debt. get our next round and we have more sophisticated investors, with he will convert that into equity. do you see that happening a lot? >> i see that happening a lot of times. in a local community, we have an organization called jump-start which has a green field fund that sports on the otts. they are deploying their capital income companies in the way you are saying. when the next set of investors come in, it converts into equity and it avoids the valuation conversation. that certainly is a method that a number of investors are using at an early stage. >> i would say i think this person is a little bit ahead of themselves in talking about valuation. it doesn't sound like they have a product yet. there is a huge lean start-up movement we have been hearing a lot about. i think they have a bill, a minimal version of whatever this is they want to sell. they need to have something to even impress an investor with. they need to, i think the way to start is to build something and see if people

i think that again, bottom up valuation system with investors, when something reaches its full valuation the way we look at it, prices are low, cash levels of low, prices are high, it is countercyclical, we will have readily available cash to put to work at attractive prices. two names of data i like trade at 5 to 6 times their cash flow, one name in a space that has been beaten up over the course of this year's patterson, shares are a little under 18 on an asset valuation or discounted cash flow we can get you to the low to mid 20s. another name that is shocking statistic, a company called big lots, you can bar all you want for $28. it is $1 billion market cap but believe it or not since the start of 2010 they bought back a billion dollars worth of shares. great catch out of their 1500 off priced liquidation stores, and the type of thing that if we do go into recession people are going to need and use that type store. we have got a long grocery list and credit capital, we update biweekly and the price is right, we will be in the market but i would like to see more volatility and -- dave

there is requirement that there be a valuation done annually.rt of that valuation is the consulting actuary firm that is hired by the retirement system brings forward their analysis on the economics of the current situation, in preparation for preparing the economic evaluation. not just the investment return but also the wage assumptions and cpi assumptions are considered and discussed and approved by the retirement board. part of their report indicates that it's the investment consultant that brings forth the recommendation for the investment return assumption. that is not correct. it's the actuarially consulting firm that brings forth recommendation for the assumed investment return, as they do for all of the assumptions that will be used in the actual evaluation. >> supervisor elsbernd: so to be very specific, tie ron is the actuary who puts forward the return. how many of our investments do they advise us on? none. nothing to do with our investments, purely on the actuarially side of it. >> absolutely. >> supervisor elsbernd: okay. >> hold o

the valuation has gotten fairly compelling. a lot of people are looking at it and wondering, once you start seeing that, that is basically a balance of bids and offers. you're not seeing the big gaps, that suggests to me that the stock could be poised to go the other way. >> huge thing, this is a short term call. long-term, apple is not the stock it was once. >> there have been a lot of high-profile apple haters. for the most part they've been right. first marc faber and then doug kass and then jeffrey gundlach. now he's known as the bond king at least. that's what baron called him. he's had huge stock calls as well, including the fall of bank of america. what's he doing with apple right now. jeffrey gundlach is the ceo and founder of doubleline capital, an asset management firm that's raised $50 million in three years. you're short apple. at what level and where are you going to? >> well i basically recommend to investors, get out of apple. and aggressive investors might think about shorting apple when it was about 610. way ba

the valuation here is reasonbly attractive. we would be focusing now with the weakness on more cyclical businesses. we have been buying a great company based here in the u.s. its earnings are going to take a cyclical dip this year most likely as a result of europe. it has a great balance sheet and trading about ten times earnings. people are afraid to own it right now. >> we are going to leave it there. thanks for joining us. a name that dan had mentioned. >> we trade and talk about that from time to time. it had a nice run earlier this year. now it is trading 77.5. to me it seems it has a chance to trade to the lower 70s which i'm sure dan doesn't care about with a five-year time horizon. >>> let's move on here. the unrest in the middle east and the impact on oil prices. take a look at this incredible video from gaza. israel launched an a air strike. crude immediately spiked. where do you put this? we know there are tensions between hamas and israel. >> i don't think so. i think this is a bigger issue than people made out toda

good companies at fair valuations much likely to be cheaper. david: the growth rate under the best circumstances at 2%, so slow it would not take much to push us into a recession. >> 2013, whether it was congress and the president come to some kind of compromise that prevent a fiscal cliff scenario from unfolding, we are just growing too slowly. it does not take much of a slowdown to tip you over when you are growing at such a slow stall speed. the look of the things around the world in china with the slow down, looking at europe dealing with the sovereign debt crisis still today for three straight years in places like greece and was going on in the united states where we have had an anemic recovery after all the spending and printing money in the last four years it makes me realistic about what the prospects are for q1 and q2. david: which is why the gold stocks, etf gold miner stocks, gdf, junior gold miner stocks, david you haven't given up on stocks though, you are still big on equities. >> i think over the long-term equity market is the pl

valuation has a lot to do with quality of the business. that's an important thing to consider when looking at individual stock picks. liz: okay, long, short, pick one long right now that you like. >> aig, something i have mentioned on the show before. liz: why? it got hammered last week. >> i do know that. liz: i do know that. don't remind me >> exactly. we don't focus on short-term. day-to-day movements, that's noise of the market. the fact of the matter is you have a global insurer trading at half of book value, and we believe that you will see tangible book value realized over the coming years. liz: there is one bona fide comeback and that's the auto industry. do you like auto picks? >> we do. something i have mentioned before is we are currently at the oldest age of fleet that we have ever been at in the united states, over 11 years. that's meaningful because it is going to force people back into the market to buy cars, driving new car sales. so in light of the fact that financing is back, that folks are able to go out and get a loan -

>> the valuation was always an issue here.t of the lockup expiring reminds us of the valuation play. it's still $48 billion for a company with $5 billion in revenue. so the sale of the century, this most certainly isn't. part of what we're seeing is rotation out of the big three, out of amazon, apple, and google. some of the tech money is looking for a place. there's a decent number of people out there who like the upside to downside ratio in facebook. all that being said, mobile is important for them. we're yet to see them monetize outside. they have to do that to grow into any kind of valuation above of $26. we have another big problem in mobile here which is about 50% of the click throughs where they're making their money turn out to be errors. they're accidents based on big fingers on small surfaces. >> facebook is still one of the top if not the top water cooler stocks to talk about in 2012. we just proved it once again. gentlemen, thank you for your opinions on that. >> thank you. >> thank you. >> as we head toward the c

when you're looking at value asia -- valuations. >>> up next on the half, apple. it's america's most valuable company. arguably its most influential. but is its dominance starting to crack? >>> finally, a date for the launch of research in motion's blackberry 10. but is it too little too late? more "halftime" straight ahead. with the fidelity stock screener, you can try strategies from independent experts and see what criteria they use. such as a 5% yield on dividend-paying stocks. then you can customize the strategies and narrow down to exactly those stocks you want to follow. i'm mark allen of fidelity investments. the expert strategies feature is one more innovative reason serious investors are choosing fidelity. now get 200 free trades when you open an account. >>> all right. welcome back. apple shares falling yet again today in the recent slide into bear market territory is leading some to question the company's future. in today's "usa today" michael wolf asks whether the age of apple is ending. got the paper right here. here's the article. in it, joe, michae

private market valuations or private company valuations are materially higher on a relative basis thanany valuations so it really hasn't impacted the young entrepreneurs who are starting companies yet. that may happen at some point. on facebook regarding the ipo one of ilessons we learned over and over again about public markets is when something is too good to be true or when everybody thinks something is going to happen oftentimes it doesn't. >> isn't there something weird that the private valuations sore much higher than the public valuations and how ultimately do those private valuations get monetized because there has to be some form of an exit, whether it's an m&a transaction or an ipo? >> you used the word "weird" and i think that's a fair characterization. ultimately it will reset, but the reality is the market opportunities for a lot of these companies are so big that people are willing to place the bet and fund them, as an investor in these private companies. i wish valuations were a lot lower than they are but they aren't, so we have to be selective about where we invest and

valuation is very, very cheap on any metric.el this restructure sing going to take so long and they have been so -- slow in really transitioning away from the pcs into the enterprise. into cloud and tablets, et cetera. i would actually say that dell is ahead of them in this race. i'm not a pan of dell. >> oil prices are jumping today as israel and gaza continues to trade rocket and missile fire over there with hamas. joining us now with the latest on the con applicant is nbc's martin fletcher live from tel aviv. >> reporter: hi, scott. conflict here is really reaching a fever pitch with israel still continuing to pound palestinian targets in gaza. palestinians say that the death toll there reached three pigs today important the first time over 100 palestinians killed and about 600 wounded by palestinian rockets. at the same time, palestinians firing more and more rockets into israel today. i spent the day in the south of israel and in the town where children were being bussed and put on the buses to the north and escape the bomb

good place to get in, valuations are reasonable. i think the future and next year looks very bright for companies and profits. therefore, equity prices as well. >> mandy drury, what are the other catalysts? the problem is, if, in fact, we were to enter recession in 2013, that hits earnings, which has been the strongest part of this recovery. >> absolutely. we really do need to get out there and try and find the good things in this market. i was listening to matt a moment ago. he was saying he's really not ready to buy. it feels like there's a buyer strike out there. a lot of fatigue. think about all the bad headlines. fiscal cliff, taxes likely going up, middle east escalating in violence. it really feels like a lot of things getting us down. scott was just pulling out some of the things that are positive, like valuations being reasonable. there's plenty of easy money. if there's good news, we have to try and find it. let's hope earnings provide good news going forward. >> well, we could try to find it, but is that going to dictate

the banking system that's that's the first thing second prior to nine hundred ninety eight the valuations were not excessive for new companies they were well within historic norms it was in one thousand nine hundred ninety eight the bubble took off if you take ninety ninety eight through two thousand out of the numbers and just go back to the midnight the ninety's you're operating in a in a world of reasonable valuations where investors did well buying into new companies and then what is the role of a v.c. is now because you touched on him briefly and you mention there consultation and your from this world you've worked on and this area for years why are the dollars falling why are the consolidation is happening what impact does it have on innovation right now well you can do a causal chain that the dollars going into venture capital are declining and i want to come back to the quantities involved the dollars are declining because the venture capital returns have declined the venture capital returns have declined because there is such limited access to the i.p.o. market one follows on the

they're not impervious to the tape, but i think the valuations are reasonable.hink the stock is fine. >> they also have a press release today about this location service, which is something that -- you know, that's what facebook needs to monetize. that's what all these guys need if they're going to do that location for everything from hospitality to travel and all the rest. they make that and izat location, they announced that one today, that could be a boost as well. >>> the energy markets on high alert on a major escalation in tensions between israeli and syrian forces. a possible ground offensive. the region is a global flash point that's seen revolution and civil war over the past couple of years. for more on this story, let's bring in george friedman. thanks so much for coming by. we appreciate it. >> pleasure. >> it does seem to be a lot of sabre rattling there between the ground forces moving closer to the border and the israeli defense minister saying that palestinian militants will, in fact, pay for the blood that was shed in israel. is this sabre rattl

this limit to the same valuation. it will be about what will be evaluated. -- public criteria about what will be evaluated. a really top-notch evaluation firm selected to do the study. and have everybody participate over the same time horizon that none of those actors action has to put up the money for. it can be consistent with what government is trying to do, but take some of the government off. there are many others out there that have really terrific early stage products. they need more access to markets. they also need ways to not have to break themselves, producing the information particularly in this idiosyncratic way. more common ways of getting a valuations running across multiple projects with multiple demand side actors. it is ways that are pretty public. push through lots of different channels. not only do the market signals about what is necessary or what is needed it clear for vendors or innovators, but the way in which you think about what performance actually is, it is clear across the set of buyers an

and versus long-term averages, valuation. number two, we think a lot of bad news is already priced in. number three, greece seems to be another year, they're going to kick the can down the road you said earlier. but greece they are doing the same thing. so the markets -- the spanish bond yields, portuguese bond yields, irish bond yields, greek bond yields, late on friday last week there was a comment that germany might allow greece to buy back some of their debt so those bonds went up. you recall on may 31st they were at 14, they're now 32. they have overdoubled the greek bonds in price. okay? the yields haae come down from 30 to 14. where we're going with this is we think -- liz: that's not what you are investing in. >> no, but the backdrop, the backdrop seems to be making a bottom here. okay? secondly, we think china, which is a very important export market, okay, for europe, china is basically also making a bottom. so we think europe can make a bottom based on fundamentals of china, based on the backdrop calming down. now,

also, the extreme and relative valuations between high-quality fixed income and equities will push money towards equities. i would not run for cover here because of the volatility. i think you just have to, you know, hold your ground through this and hope that the market moves higher next year. >> bob, this activity at the close today, you surprised at what happened? we had $3.6 billion in stocks to buy at close. we went all the way up only to come back down. >> great volume, by the way. we're going to do 1 billion shares here on the floor. that's a very rare day. normally we do about 600 million. what happens in these imbalances is the indexes are reweighed. you're simply moving around the money that's in the index in the different stocks themselves. you might get a little changes in the stocks, but the whole pot stays relatively the same. i was very encouraged today, maria. encouraged when you saw very little movement in the stock market in the middle of the day when representative boehner came out and said they'd gone nowhere on the talks. senator mcconnell described the white house o

with the over all management of the open space and with the combination of risk assessment and valuations of the existing trees. and that is also something that is not necessarily part of this particular board's issues. what is before us is a permit that relates to the building, to the tennis court, to the paths around it and perhaps, to the landscaping that that is impacted by this particular permit. and then the question is and it has been brought up by a few of the speakers, some concern with the tree that are being removed to relocate the tennis courts. and it is interesting that the two play grounds that have had tennis courts, that came in front of this board, both have relocated functional tennis courts in light of a master plan. i will not dwell on that too much, because i think that the level of community outreach and participation here was much more extensive than the other instance. whether i am in disagreement on a personal note with the way that they developed that, i don't think really has much significance. the question is whether we feel that this permit then has certain t

i don't think the valuation is compelling at all. >> we have a drop for france. yes, the country of france. garard, an actor, says au voire. depardieu is reportedly shopping for houses in belgium. no andy mcdowell fans around the set. in a double drop for france, for the first time an american is top dog at the michelin which some call the bible of french astronomy. >> is that a drop for france? depends which side you look at. they may not want him to stick around. >> oh, their loss is our gain. >> that's right. >> belgium's game. >>> coming up next, a man, two tech calls and two very different outcomes. we're taking grasso to task after this break. >>> later on, it's not all bad news when it comes to the dreaded fiscal cliff. stick around to find out why washington's indecision might soon bring a big payday your way. customer erin swenson bought from us online today. so, i'm happy. sales go up... i'm happy. it went out today... i'm happy. what if she's not home? (together) she won't be happy. use ups! she can get a text alert, reroute... even reschedule her pack

. >> i'm looking at a valuation of about 13. on that level -- also given the fact a lot of individuals are out of the market, it's a fair valuation. >> craig, weigh in here. if you're looking at 2013, you're not only considering taxes because we know the capital gains and dividend taxes will go higher. you're also talking about the possibility of a much slower economy. and how does that impact earnings in 2013? let's say hypothetically we go off the fiscal cliff because clearly both sides are digging in. here we are at the edge once again like last summer. we go off the fiscal cliff. 2013 comes. we go into recession. doesn't that hit corporate earnings, which, of course, has been the best part of this recovery anywhere? >> there's no question about that. i would contend that the market has probably already factored most of that in. when you can buy a number of stocks -- in the hodges small cap fund, we have a number of stocks trading below their growth rate. that's telling you that the market is not expecting good growth. when y

how about this -- based on earnings and valuations, where is the dow's fair value right now? where should it be? >> boy, you know, i think the dow's fair value is probably somewhat higher. i'm not going to base it on earnings as much as i am going to base it on historically low interest rates. i mean the interest rates that we have out there now act as a tremendous flotation device for equity valuations. so i think the market will drift higher and i think that fair value is being driven by a risk-free rate that's essentially 0.01%, rather than by the earnings power. by the way, corporate america's demonstrated good earnings up until the last earnings season where it started to weaken. but the five prior earnings seasons have been very, very good. so certainly driving part of the valuation process there. >> art, where do you think fair value for the dow should be? >> i think if we sort of look beyond the fiscal cliff we get beyond this, we've got some results. not just a short-term fix but the actual grand bargain that comes with trying to figure out how we'll work on our long

for investors there are long-term outlook and you have to look at the valuation.ading at 11 times this year. and there is probably overreaction but the long-term story is still in tact. we're very early on in terms of the job research. the runway is still very large and then tablets, apple has an enormous market share. we expect it to continue and then in the smart term category, still a long run way. it's a chance for investors to get into it. >> you make a nice point but where are the bargain hunters here providing 20% off. they are being awfully patient. >> right. and our position is that it's been a 700 to $750 stock and we expected the fourth quarter of this year will be one of their best quarters ever. i think the first quarter that we saw or the first weekend we saw, you know, the tablet sales over 3 million, a lot of that is the one-two punch of the five and this new tablet are going to lead you to the best core. once they have seen those results, it's going to ramp up again. it's lost the technical support but for investors who are looking at a bargain an

would you go there with the valuation that amazon has?> the value has always been the knock on amazon and they shrugged it off. you have to give jeff a bit of credit. he has done a phenomenal job. i would still go there. it is not without its concerns. i mentioned the tax issues. >> the tax issues people have shown that they don't care about it. we have seen it. people still don't change the buying habits yet. >> my point. >> you like the samsung. >> and i own google. it is the closest to creating its own ecosystem to the likeness of the apple. they are every place. they give you so many choices. you don't have the one stop shopping with the iphone. you get the phones and everything else that comes along with it. >> everything else? search is the biggest thing. self drive car. >> look at those legs. >> i have great legs. >> that was a few years before. >> now you can really lift the packages. >> it's a family show. >> i meant packages. >> it's a family show. put a ribbon on that. >>> jane wells joins us with a look at what is going on nex

on valuation.our view of the company fundamentally has not changed at all. >> this company is well run. doing all of the right things. keeps closing little divisions that don't work. i think it's a bad call. i think a lot of people want to make valuation calls and don't realize stocks are cheaper. i want to buy heinz on the do downgrade. >> people will read "the new york times" business section today as mike lynch from autonomy continues to speak out. >> he's made a decision that his lawyers would strenuously disagree with, which is to talk publicly and dispute what we heard from hewlett packard a week ago namely that there were significant accounting improprieties in the company he once ran. saying strong things in opposition. >> i couldn't help having been -- i know the profession. the first thing they tell you is never go on tv, ever. never go on tv. everything you say can and will be used against you. martha stewart went on tv and said the jcpenney deal will be fabulous. before that she said th

it's not a valuation call. it's not a growth call. these things are still there. this is a case where the dominance in terms of the playing field and what they do it is never going to be more at peak than where it is right now. from a hardware perspective there are people doing what they are doing for less money in the places where they need to grow which is asia which is supposed to be 40%. i don't see that happening as long as samsung, htc and others have a comparable product. >> they have made enormous in roads when it comes to market share in a short amount of time. so if you take a look. 31.3% for samsung. 15% for apple. these are gains year on year. because just a year ago samsung was a 22.7% and apple was at 13.8%. samsung growing at a bigger clip. the tablet wars samsung is at 18.4% and a year ago it was at 6.5%. the trajectory at which samsung is growing share, it can go head to head in terms of attention of the consumer. that is the concern here. are you concerned at all? >> i am concerned but i think there are two things going on. there is apple as stoc

you say valuations of stocks right now are too high, but look at apple, a 11 times for earnings. google is 17 times for earnings. apple seems to have low valuations, not high. >> i'm going to go into reality, telling me every day you cannot trust anything in the market where you are down a couple of points in the dow going in and then it goes right down to under points to the clothes. if you look back at the economic data you are seeing signs of improvement. liz: a gun. david: hang on. dell earnings. >> reporter: well, a bit of a mess. earnings per share coming in at $0.309. expecting $0.40. revenue, 13 billion that history was expecting 14. one thing, the company is giving -- still expecting sequential revenue growth of 2-5% in the fourth quarter, so that may be one of the reasons that the stock to my belief right now is up, i believe it's up roughly 3%. back to you. david: let me go back to brain and talk about dell's specifically. a problem with tell, let's face it. they are still stuck on an industry or a part of the tech industry that many people say has died. the pc market

merrill lynch citing attractive valuation.k has taken a hit after a weaker then expected forecast. that is the latest from the fox business network. giving you the power to prosper. ♪ [ male announcer ] where do you turn for legal matters? at legalzoom, we've created a better place to handle your legal needs. maybe you have questions about incorporating a business you'd like to start. or questions about protecting your family with a will or living trust. and you'd like to find the right attorney to help guide you along, answer any questions and offer advice. with an "a" rang from the better business bureau legalzoom helps you get personalized and affordable legal protection. in most states, a legal plan attorney is available with every personalized document to answer any questions. get started at legalzoom.com today. and now you're protected. make sure the news keeps coming with thinkorswim by td ameritrade. use the news links breaking stories with possible breakout stocks, options with potential opportunity, futures and forex

that valuation may have just gone out. ashley: you're absolutely right.hy would you put that information out when it is not true? that is the problem with twitter. you can can't believe everything you read where you have to be skeptical. cheryl: you have to be fact checking. all right, a quarter till. stocks with nicole petallides on the floor of the new york stock exchange, as we do every 15 minutes. reporter: the dow jones industrial is looking good on its first trading day of november. we are up 125 points. we need to take a look at the dow component pfizer. seeing it down, a loss of about 1.5%, down 36 cents. one of the reasons they came out with their quarterly numbers. when you look at a quarter, profits are 14%. don't forget they lost their exclusivity on lipitor where they saw sales pulling back as well. it's about cholesterol drug was one of the reasons why we see the downside after the quarterly report. those are a couple of the things that we are watching when we watch pfizer. cheryl: thank you, nicole petallides. ashley: please stay with fox b

if you look at the current valuations, over the last 130 years, u.s. stocks have gone down from current valuations 50% of the time over the next two years. which means they've gone up 50% of the time, so of course you can take an especially bet on that one. the trouble is those 50% of the times were bubbles. so the real question here, there's a lot of questions, one of the big questions is you know that corporate profit margins are high, you know that corporate profit is a% of gdp is high, so what this metric assumes is that the mean reverts over a long period of time. now, what we know globally is that profits are shrinking. they haven't shrunk in the u.s. until now. people talk about the fiscal cliff and problems in the economy. that's a big question, but profits are already shrinking and that looks like a bad risk-reward trade. >> from a trade perspective, which is entirely different, there is an argument on to be made that actually if we get some kind of agreement on fiscal cliff, naturally there would be some kind of bounce. >> i would assume so.

apple is trading at 40% less on valuation. it's also lower than its peers versus google. so you can get similar long-term earnings growth, about 14% long-term growth versus 16% on google, but you're trading at a 40% less lower valuation. you're looking at the next 12 months earnings. it's a that brainer. not only that, but apple pays dividends. >> i think a lot of traders are ju jumping into apple here because, yes, they have tremendous amounts of cash on their balance sheets. i think what they're trying to do is own am, they want to rent apple for a potential special dividend. if they get the special -- >> they paid one dividend. they have so much cash on the balance sheet. even if you pay one special dividend, they still have offered guidance and they're going to continue to pay dividends. we're still looking at a 2% dividend yield going forward regardless of the special payments. >> i understand, but i think a lot of traders are renting, they're not owning the stock. >> this is not a rental. in fact, actually, the stocks dropped down. this is not a rental. this is a lo

valuation could be momentarily stretched. that was a remarkable call. housing does continue to do well. if the fiscal cliff intrudes, you should sell. if you believe it will go and 120 million people -- you showed me those tax rates from the "usa today" and that's an impact play. that's an impact. i don't want t to home depot and spend $55 on the average ticket if i feel like the tax increase. >> holding onto gains today even though valuation is stretched on a five-year basis. >> other people recommending lowe's as a catchup play. lowe's is an inferior company to home depot. if the industry really comes back because of sandy -- i think that people are -- there's a lot of discussion about what sandy can mean. home depot lost more stores and had more stores close off irene but substantial off sandy. i have to get to home depot that is in long island. i think that's going to be the tell this weekend if we can get there, david. >> are we going to try? >> you both are going to try. >> i want to take david to home depot. they have everything there. you would

they have a whole mechanism for praising and assessing valuation. a horizontal addition and a vertical addition certainly will result in additional assessment. by the way,? are interesting because the rules change. if you are on the ground and it is a patio, it has different rules. if you lay a flagstone patio, you're not getting a permit for a deck. but if you build -- let us say you build a deck that is less than 30 inches off the ground. no permit is required. it does not go to the assessor reporter's office. between 30 and 36 inches off the ground, you need a permit. you can expand the entire size of your rear yard. if you are more than 36 inches off the ground, you have to meet the planning department open space requirements and encroachment requirements. there is a whole range. another thing would be converting an unfinished basement or adding living area, which is happening very often. people are taking the back of their grosz and turning it into their room, or an attic. that is happening in lot. you have to be assessed for that. i think that

however, we have an underperform rating on this stock right now, primarily because of valuation. as you noted, the stock has already gone up quite a lot this year. so we think a little bit of caution is warranted for that name in particular. liz: it is important to point out, this is without the hurricane. those one-year charts show that even without a hurricane, they can do really good business. >> right. it's just been a very, very good period for them coming out of the recession. consumers have come back. you know, there was a lot of fear that people wouldn't, you know, would have less stuff in their lives, and that just has not turned out to be the case. liz: bmo capital markets senior editor, thank you very much for joining us. >> thanks. liz: i always wondered if you could get in one of those storage spaces with a little lamp and mini fridge. >> people do that. liz: kind of hang out there. [laughter] liz: we will be right back. dow jones industrials gaining in the last few minutes. now up 120 t. -- now up 121 points. we are 14 mints before the closing -- we are 14 minutes b

. >> currency valuations have been a current team during the campaign. -- have been a recurring themeing the campaign. the u.s. has been trying to get china to begin the process of balancing its currency versus the dollar in a fair manner. are we where we want to be yet, no? >> the arrogant and unsupportable pretensions of china that she will hold commercial intercourse not upon terms of people reciprocity but on be relationship between lord and vassal, so lamented john quincy adams. that was back in 1841. that is how long americans have been complaining about the terms of trade with china. these days, the public is much more engaged with the issues and gunboat diplomacy being out of the question, the president has to take the u.s. case to international bodies like the world trade organization. richard nixon to find the modern u.s. relationship as a time when it was still largely important to the economy. that might have changed, the perception of the militia is too important to fail remains. -- of the relationship as too important to failed remains. >> you had the president of an up

i'm not sure they will make as much money and have as much impact on the valuation. >> you can get pretty much everything at home depot except for stocks versus options. short hd. stocks can go up forever but can only drop to 0. it can make up to five times his money by january expiration. we will see carter a little later on in the show. in the meantime got a question send us a tweet. we'll answer it on our one-on-one web extra right after the show on our website. you will find trader blogs as well. here is what is coming up next. >>> the people have spoken. dan is a trading whiz. last month he built a bearish bet on jp morgan but let him cash in on an obama reelection. find out when "options action" returns. >>> where were options traders and you don't want to miss it with thinkorswim by td ameritrade. you get knock-your-socks-off tools, simple one-click orders, real-time paper trading to hone your skills, plus anytime you need it support. ♪ stocks, options, futures, and forex. get your trading on track. thinkorswim by td ameritrade. trade commission free for 60 days, plus get up to $60

>> valuations are attractive today. our work shows you buy when things are -- >> you're not going to try and time this market? >> right. not trying to time it. >> i think the selloff -- we've gotten a selloff. this is it. i don't know if it's going to go down further or not, but theis s a great opportunity to buy. >> two bulls. one growth player joining us. thank you. >> thank you. >> yes, we have come back. at the lows of the day, we were down 94. now the dow with about ten minutes left down just 20. >> meanwhile, violence in the middle east, another story we're focused on. the head of israel's central bank will weigh in on that and america's fiscal mess. he's with me exclusively coming up. >> looking forward to that. >>> plus, we'll head thrive israel for the latest on efforts to end the seven days of fighting coming up. >>> if you were not with us earlier today, fed chairman bernanke said that the fed does not have the tools to offset the worst case scenario of going over the fiscal cliff. >> his comments earlier, th

valuations aren't stretched. a tremendous quarter around the guidance fantastic as well. shows you that qualcomm, not an apple-specific story. want to be short apple. >> be short apple. 'cause there are others out there who are. >> a proxy. >> am, by the way, in case you haven't noticed, fell hard today, down about 20% since its all-time high september 21st. tech in i cannily, we call that a bear market. listen to what jeff begun laugh had to say at double hein capital on the halftime earlier about being short stock. >> i actually started shorting apple back in april in between. the stock started to go powerfully vertical and stocks go vertical and get tired and peak out, they go back to the point in which they went vertical. >> really a major component of decline today. we have the comes from ecb president mario drag guy overnight and terrible german industrial production numbers and then we had, of course, what happened today in the markets, 10:50 saw.al decline and bear market territory. >> apple's falling knife opportunities have been two in the past five years. the l

be taxes lev yead on the valuation for the employee or employers.hat's a fer that we have. we have not sure -- how far that's going to take us and how deep it's going to cut into our operating costs. one of the big things that we have as a problem is employers, medium and small-sized employers, our upbringing over all the years, i have employees with me over 20 years, our focus that has been to take care of our employees and they can depend on us. the problem we are facing, i am not sure if i am going to be able to continue to offer the health care that they, their families and kids need. that's the fear we are going forward with into '13. all the hidden agendas that have been held back on obama health care, we feel are going to start to surface so we will get a better understanding. but the fear is that if the costs continue to rise, we are not going to be able to provide health care to our employees and take care of them the way we have so many years. and the rising costs will then force us to really consider whether you maintain, retract or grow