nonetheless, wmd is will be a driving factor. we have been raising this as an issue to pique the attention of u.s. policy makers and it is working. all the more reason to try to create areas that are not flawless but are under control of the well-disciplined syrian opposition and syrian fighting force that can guard these facilities. >> please wait for the microphone. >> i am from united against genocide. my question is, obviously, looking back at history, i see kosovo as being an example where by the u.s. intervened after it was clear that mass atrocities were happening. but i looked at the experience of rwanda where the international community did not intervene when mass atrocities were happening. as a matter of fact, the genocide happened. .'m just skeptical what would it take for the international community to do something about what is happening in syria? does it have to reach the scale of rwanda? thank you. >> i think as most people know, the numbers are not the same. as brutal and vicious as it is, the numbers are not the

reminding me that i actually forgot to say something which was in my list of protections which is counter wmd which bio is one. those also we wanted to protect. with respect to bio, reading into what you said, paul, but if you're concerned about the potential of the biosciences to create threats in the future, not only with existing pathogens, but i think the real revolution lies farther into the future, but certainly so, it is a defense problem. it's going to be a defense problem. they will be used in war. they will be used in terrorism, and any time anything at that scale emerges, people are going to expect us to play a role. we have a substantial investment in that area. at the moment it tries to balance the legacy stuff, that is naturally occurring pathogens, and looking at the frontier as well. tries to the extent we're able to, and you know you have been part of this, to get our feelers out there in the world so that we're engaged with the community of researchers in this field and to the extent possible with those who in the past created stocks of pathogens or have na know-how to make

nonetheless, yeah, i mean wmd is going to be a driving factor. i think the opposition has been very effective in raising this as an issue to pique the attention of u.s. policymakers, and it's working. but all the more reason to create areas that are not lawless, but are under control of the well disciplined syrian opposition, free syrian fighting force that can guard these facilities. >> the gentleman in the back? please wait for the microphone. >> thank you. i'm a policy analyst from united to end genocide. my question is essentially, obviously looking back at history, i think senator mccain pointed out to kosovo example. but i see kosovo as being an example whereby the u.s. intervened. and after was clear that mass atrocities were happening. but i'm also looking at it from the experience of rwanda, where the international community did not intervene when mass atrocities were happening. as a matter of fact, the genocide happened. and we've seen hula happen. we've seen hama happen. i'm just skeptical. what would it take for the international comm

all of the neoconservatives and right-wingers, who called for us to go into iraq because of wmds and because saddam was bad. there is a history there. that history is within living memory of a lot of grownups in this country. and unless people are willing to do the hard work of presenting the history and holding people accountable for the past, we will be condemned as it's been said, to repeat it first in tragedy and then in farce. >> here's something i wrestle with and a lot of journalists wrestle with it. that i'd like for you to address. we sometimes bend ourselves into euphemistic pretzels in order not to call a spade a spade or a lie a lie. for example, when rick santorum's opponents took his words out of context to make him say something he clearly had not intended to say. >> on the economy, rick santorum says -- >> i don't care what the unemployment rate is going to be. >> i didn't hear any prestige journalist speak up and say, "you know, that's a lie." >> no, what you heard instead was, isn't that something? what a deft maneuver. what a great political thing that they have do

people that trumped up the false wmd of iraq.still have jobs, they still getting to and talk about foreign policy. we don't hold our elites to account. and to the extent we do that, it creates this deep sense of frugs trace, anger and betrayal and distrust among the populis. >> how do you hold the top to the law? >> it's a good question. i think in some ways, particularly with wall street, they have grown so powerful, they have loosed themselves from the bonds of the social contract. and i think that part of the problem is mobilizing constituency among people who do have power to call for that kind of accountability. >> interesting. chris hayes, the author of "the twilight elites: america after the meritocracy." i would love to have a conversation with you about private prisons, a whole show on that. and you can watch "up" with chris hayes every saturday and sunday at 8:00 a.m. eastern on msnbc. coming up, john kerry answers a casting call to the white house. and the subtle but sure change in mitt romney recently. and who is winn

as result some wmd, some of the chemical weapons, 40 or so that the mdc sites in syria that contain gas vx and mustard gas may start to go somewhere else. we don't know. these are weaponize, a very large advanced and nasty program. they also have production of facilities and hamas. the third trend that we're seeing, ethnic cleansing. there are two purposes why the assad regime is doing this. one is they are clearing sunni villages and allied areas. unlike washington, the assad regime does have a plan become and that land is to create -- they are going back and clearing out areas in places like elsewhere to make sure that there are no hospitals in the air. the second reason they're doing it is that massacres on the scale they're doing days, hastens civil war, and they want a civil war because if it's an insurgency, they can pick sides. but a civil war, hey, we don't want any of that. domestic stuff. we can get killed. the first when it comes to mind is lebanon in the 1980s. so civil war for assad is a good thing. it keeps us away. it is inexplicably i think on our site are real lack of u

as a result, some of these chemical weapons, some of the 40 or so wmd sites in syria that contain weapons, they may go. is a large, nasty program. they also have production facilities. the third trend that we are seeing -- this is ethnic cleansing. there are two reasons why the assad region is doing this -- regime is doing this. they do have a plan b period that is to create their own land. they're creating -- clearing out areas to make sure that there are no hostels in the area. the second reason they are doing that is that massacres on the scale they are doing hasten civil war. they want civil war. if it is an insurgency, we can decide and get involved. it is a civil war, we do not want any of that. that is domestic -- we can get killed. the first in the comes to mind is lebanon in the 1980's. so civil war for them is a good thing. it keeps us away. it is a good thing for them, the lack of urgency on outside to end -- our side to end the slaughter. what do we do in the future about this? senator mccain has it right. we should give more assistance to the free syrian army, including tacti

nonetheless yeah, i mean wmd will be driving factor of the opposition, has been very effective in raisingthis issue to keep the attention of u.s. policymakers. and its working. but that's all the more reason to try to great areas that are not flawless but are under control of the well disciplined syrian opposition, free syrian army fighting force that can guard these facilities. >> the gentleman in the back. please wait for the microphone. >> thank you. ima policy analyst from -- my question is essentially obviously looking back at history, i think senator mccain pointed out an example, but i see kosovo as being an example whereby u.s. intervene, and afterwards cleared out. but the experience of rwanda where the international community did not intervene -- >> leaving the last few minutes of this discussion. you can see it in its entirety. go to c-span.org. live now as the u.s. senate is about to gavel in for the day. they will start on a bill to overturn the nation's restrictions for mercury and other toxics. a procedural vote on the bill is set for 11:30 a.m. centers with an continue wit