>> stahl: the republican national convention that begins tomorrow in cleveland will star donald trump and his chosen running mate the governor of indiana, mike pence. the republican leadership has praised pence as a good choice to unite the party. he's known as a reliable conservative with close ties to the religious right and he also has good relations with republicans in congress, having served six terms in the house of representatives. but there are significant areas in terms of values and policy where he has differed with mr. trump in the past. we had the chance to ask the two of them about that in their first and only interview together, yesterday afternoon in new york, in trump's three-story penthouse apartment in the trump tower. first of all, governor pence, congratulations. >> mike pence: thank you. >> stahl: this probably comes as a huge, life-changing moment for you. >> pence: it has. it's very, very humbling and i

couldn't be more honored to have the opportunity to run with, and serve with, the next president of the united states. >> stahl: before we actually talk about the politics, you know, there've been so many-- major world events very recently, in the last week. i don't know if you can remember the last time we have seen a world this much in chaos. you even said, "it's spinning apart." are you ready for this world that we are facing today? >> donald trump: we're both ready. i've no doubt. we need toughness. we need strength. obama's weak, hillary's weak. and part of it is that; a big part of it. we need law and order. we need strong borders. >> stahl: but all reactions to what's been going on aren't muscular. for example, look what happened in turkey. there was a military coup in a democratic country, a n.a.t.o. ally. how would you respond to that? >> trump: well, as a president,

i'm going to be... you know, they've been an ally and i stay with our allies. they have been an ally. but that was a quick coup. i was actually surprised to see how well it was handled. and you know who really handled it? the people. so, i mean, we can say what we want, but the people handled it. when they surrounded the army tanks... and without the people, you would've never had it. the military would've taken over. >> pence: but i truly do believe that the larger issue here is declining american power in the world. i truly do believe that history teaches that weakness arouses evil and whether it be the horrific attack in france, the inspired attacks here in the united states, the instability in turkey that led to a coup. i think that is all a result of a foreign policy of hillary clinton and barack obama that has led from behind and that has sent an-an inexact, unclear message about american resolve. one of the reasons why i said yes in a heartbeat to run with this man is because he embodies

american strength, and i know that he will provide that kind of broad-shouldered american strength on the global stage as well. >> stahl: let's-let's talk about what happened in nice horrendous carnage horrible, of innocence. >> trump: horrible. >> stahl: horrible. you said you would declare war against i.s.i.s. what exactly do you have... >> trump: it is war. by the way, it is war. >> stahl: no, but does that... when you say, "declare war," do you want to send american troops in there? is that what you mean? >> trump: look, we have people that hate us. we have people that wanna wipe us out. we're gonna declare war against i.s.i.s. we have to wipe out i.s.i.s. these are people that... >> stahl: with troops on the ground? >> trump: i am going to have very few troops on the ground. we're gonna have unbelievable intelligence, which we need, which, right now, we don't have. we don't have the people over there. we are going to use... >> stahl: you want to send americans... >> trump: excuse me-- and we're going to have surrounding states and, very importantly, get n.a.t.o. involved because we support n.a.t.o. far more than we should, frankly, because you have a lot of countries that aren't doing what they're supposed to be doing. and we have to wipe out i.s.i.s. and speaking of turkey, turkey

is an ally. turkey can do it by themselves. but they have to be incentivized. for whatever reason, they're not. so we have no choice. >> stahl: but i still don't know if you're going to send troops over... >> trump: very little. i'm gonna... >> stahl: but declare war... >> trump: ...get neighboring states and i'm going to get... we are going to get n.a.t.o.; we're going to wipe 'em out. we're gonna... >> stahl: but declare war? >> pence: lesley... >> stahl: what does that mean...? >> pence: this is... this is the kind... this is the kind of leadership that america needs and it... >> stahl: but what... >> pence: ...and it begins with deciding to destroy the enemies of our freedom. >> stahl: how? >> pence: and how we do that? i have every confidence. you-you remember i served on the foreign affairs committee. and i'm very confident that when donald trump becomes president of the united states, he'll give a directive to our military commanders, bring together other nations, and we will use the enormous resources of the united states to destroy that enemy. >> trump: now look, we are going to get rid of i.s.i.s., big league. and we're gonna get rid of 'em fast. and we're gonna use surrounding states. we're gonna use n.a.t.o.,

probably. and we're gonna declare war. it is war. when the world trade center comes tumbling down, with thousands of people being killed, people are still... i have friends that are still... ( overtalk ) >> stahl: but we did go to war, if you remember. we went to iraq. >> trump: yeah, you went to iraq, but that was handled so badly. and that was a war-- by the way, that was a war that we shouldn't have entered because iraq did not knock down... excuse me... ( overtalk ) >> stahl: your running mate... >> trump: iraq did not... ( overtalk ) >> stahl: ...voted for it >> trump: i don't care. >> stahl: what do you mean you don't care that he voted for? >> trump: it's a long time ago. and he voted that way and they were also misled. a lot of information was given to people. ( overtalk ) >> stahl: but you've harped on this. >> trump: but i was against the war in iraq from the beginning. >> stahl: yeah, but you've used that vote of hillary's that was the same as governor pence... ( overtalk ) >> stahl: ...as the example of her bad judgment. >> trump: many people have, and frankly, i'm one of the few that was right on iraq. >> stahl: yeah, but what about he... ( overtalk ) >> trump: he's entitled to make a mistake every once in a while. >> stahl: but she's not? okay, come on... >> trump: but she's not. >> stahl: she's not? >> trump: no. she's not. >> stahl: got it. i have to move on or we're never gonna find out why he chose you. ( laughter ) why did you pick him? you had other candidates...

>> trump: okay, i did. i had a lot of people that wanted it; a lot more people than anybody... >> stahl: that came to you and begged you for it? >> trump: that called me and came to me and wanted it badly. and, you know, the press didn't report that. the press said, "well, maybe he's having hard time picking." >> stahl: well, what about the governor? did he want it like that? >> trump: i actually brought it up to him. >> stahl: okay. >> trump: i got to know him during the... when i was in indiana during the primaries, and i did very well in indiana, like i did just about everywhere else in all fairness. but... i got to know him very well and i gained great respect for him. and i looked at the numbers, meaning the financials, which we would say in business. but i looked at the numbers. unemployment? what a great job he did. jobs? what a great job he did. triple-a rating on his bonds. >> stahl: but you went to him and said... >> trump: i did-- >> stahl: would you want to be considered... >> trump: i broached it. >> stahl: he didn't... >> stahl: and then he said, "i-i really want it." so why did you pick him? >> trump: i would say that he thought about it a little bit. and about two seconds later, he called me, with his incredible wife, and said... >> stahl: that i'd like to be... but what... >> trump: like many others. >> stahl: how does he help you? how does he help you win in

terms of groups of people? and what is your weakness that he compensates for and so forth? >> trump: well, i went for the quality individual rather than i'm gonna win a state, because i'm doing very well in indiana, and i guess i'm a lot up. and i think i'm gonna win indiana. i have a great relationship and bobby knight helped me so much with indiana. indiana's a great place; great state. ( overtalk ) >> stahl: why didn't you pick him? no, i'm joking-- moving on. >> trump: he would've been very good. but he's a terrific guy. but-but i really like him as an individual. >> stahl: so you must've considered, obviously, by the reaction to your choice, a lot of the conservatives are very happy. >> trump: very happy. >> stahl: was that part of the... >> trump: yes, it was party unity. i'm an outsider. i am a person that used to be establishment when i'd give them hundreds of thousands of dollars. but when i decided to run, i became very anti-establishment because i understand the system... >> stahl: is he establishment? >> trump: ...than anybody else. he's very establishment, in many ways, and that's not a bad thing. but i will tell you... >> stahl: that's kind of interesting... >> trump: i have seen more people that, frankly, did not

like me so much, and now they're saying, "what a great pick." you see the kind of reaction. he-he has helped bring the party together. i understand. look, i got more votes than anybody, but i also understand there's a faction... >> stahl: is it already unified, do you think? >> trump: i think it's very close to unified. and i will say... >> stahl: just because of this pick? >> trump: no. i think it's be... i think it was much more unified than people thought. you saw that with the recent vote where we won in a landslide. you saw that with the big vote, the primary vote. i think it's far more unified than the press lets on. but having governor mike pence has really... people that i wasn't necessarily liking or getting along are loving this pick, because they have such respect for him. >> stahl: and that was... >> trump: and the party unity is okay. you know, i think it's okay to say i picked somebody, because i... as one of the things. but i really believe the main reason i picked him is the incredible job he's done. just look at the economics of indiana... >> stahl: indiana... >> trump: ...and what's going on. >> stahl: but what about the chemistry between you two? you don't really know each other that well.

you're... at least i've read, a very low-key, very religious. you're a brash new yorker... >> trump: religious. >> stahl: religious? >> trump: religious... >> stahl: are you? >> trump: yeah, religious. >> stahl: ...you wouldn't... >> trump: hey, i won the evangelicals. the evangelicals... >> stahl: that doesn't... >> pence: you know, nobody thought... >> trump: ...well, i think it means a lot. i don't think they think i'm perfect, and they would get up and they would say, "you know, he's not perfect," but... >> stahl: they'd point to the... >> trump: ...they like me... >> stahl: ...divorces... >> trump: but i won. i won states with evangelicals that nobody thought i'd even come close to. >> stahl: well, that's true... >> trump: and i won... >> stahl: so you didn't... >> trump: ...with landslides... >> stahl: ...need him for the evangelicals? >> trump: i think it helps. but i don't think i needed him, no, because i won with evangelicals. >> pence: but i think we have more in common... >> stahl: yeah, tell me... >> pence: than... >> stahl: ...what you think you have in common. >> trump: what might be immediately obvious. >> stahl: besides issues. values and things like that. >> trump: i think we will have very, very good chemistry. i feel that. and i can feel that pretty early on. i don't think you need to be with somebody for two years to find that out. my feeling is... >> stahl: your gut feeling. >> trump: i knew him during the primaries, during many trips to indiana, i'd be with him. i think we have a great

chemistry. >> stahl: i want to ask you though about something you've said about negative campaigning. >> trump: yeah. >> stahl: you said negative campaigning is wrong, and a campaign ought to demonstrate the basic decency of the candidate. >> pence: right. >> stahl: with that in mind, what do you think about your running mate's campaign and the tone and the negativity of it? >> pence: i think this is a good man who's been talking about the issues the american people care about. >> stahl: but name calling? >> pence: in that... >> stahl: "lyin' ted?" >> pence: in the essay that i wrote a long time ago, i said campaigns ought to be about something more important than just one candidate's election. and-and this campaign and donald trump's candidacy has been about the issues the american people care about. >> stahl: but what about... >> trump: lesley, lesley... >> stahl: ...the negative side? he apologized for being a negative... >> trump: we're different people. i understand that. i'll give you an example. hillary clinton is a liar. hillary clinton-- that was just proven-- >> stahl: that's... >> trump: ...last week. >> stahl: that's negative. >> trump: hillary clinton... >> stahl: by the way... >> trump: you better believe it. hillary clinton is a crook. >> stahl: that's negative... >> trump: i call her "crooked

hillary." she's crooked hillary. he won't... i-i don't... i didn't ask him to do it, but i don't think he should do it because it's different for him. >> stahl: but he... >> trump: he's not that kind of a... >> stahl: he probably... >> trump: ...person. we're different people. >> stahl: don't you think he... >> trump: to me she's crooked hillary. >> stahl: ...thinks that's wrong? >> trump: i don't think he should use that term. i've never said one way or the other. but to him, i don't think it would sound right, but he will say how dishonest she is by going over the facts. >> stahl: but would you go to him... let's say you won, you're the vice president, your office is, i assume, down the hall, and you go in and you say, "you know, you shouldn't be saying... name calling." would you do that? would you go in and say, "you crossed the line, i think you should apologize"? would you do something like that? >> pence: look, i... >> stahl: he's laughing. >> pence: it's probably... it's... it's probably... >> stahl: it's okay. >> pence: ...obvious to people that our styles are different. but i promise you, our vision is exactly the same. >> stahl: no, but would you... >> pence: and let me be clear... >> stahl: will you answer that? would you go in? >> pence: well the... one of the things i found out about this man is he appreciates candor. and... >> stahl: so you would go in-- >> pence: i-i... >> trump: i'd like him to if he thinks i was doing something wrong. >> stahl: would you listen to him? >> pence: yeah. >> stahl: if he said you...

>> trump: absolutely. >> stahl: ...crossed the line? >> trump: absolutely. i might not apologize. you know, you said apologize, but... >> stahl: i did say apologize. >> trump: but i might not do that, but... ( laughter ) i would absolutely want him to come in if he thinks i'm doing something wrong. mike, i would want him to come in and say, really, you're doing, you gotta... and that's okay. i accept that from my consultants and my people and if mike came in and told me, you know, "i think you should do this or that..." >> stahl: back off that. >> trump: i would listen and very likely listen to him. >> stahl: do you think john mccain is not a hero because he was captured? >> pence: i have a great deal of respect for john mccain, and... >> stahl: do you think he went too far? >> trump: you could say yes. i... that's okay. that one, you could say yes, i mean, you're not... it's fine. hey, look, i like john mccain. but we have to take care of our vets. >> stahl: no, but i want to know if... >> trump: okay, but i'm just... >> stahl: mr. pence would go in and say to you... >> trump: i'm just saying, that's why not that many people are that upset. >> stahl: what are you... what did you say? you know, would you do something like that? >> pence: i-i promise you that when the circumstances arise where i have a difference on

policy or on presentation, i-i-i have... i can tell you in my heart, i know i would have no hesitation, were i privileged to be vice president, to walk into the president's office, close the door, and share my heart. and i also know this good man would listen, and has... and has the leadership qualities to draw from the people around him. >> stahl: let's talk about some of the issues. because there seems to be some daylight between you two, and we can just tick... go quickly through these. immigration. mr. trump, you have called for a temporary ban on muslims entering the united states. do you agree with that? >> pence: i do. in fact, in indiana we suspended the syrian refugee program in the... in the wake of the terrorist attack. we have no higher priority than the safety and security of the people of this country, and-and donald trump... >> stahl: now in december... >> pence: is right to articulate that view. >> stahl: in december you tweeted, and i quote you, "calls to ban muslims from entering the u.s. are offensive and unconstitutional." >> trump: so you call it territories. okay? we're gonna do territories. we're gonna not let people come

in from syria that nobody knows who they are. hillary clinton wants 550% more people to come in than obama. >> stahl: so you... >> trump: who doesn't know what he's... >> stahl: so you're changing your position? >> trump: so we're going to... no, i... call it whatever you want. we'll call it territories, okay? >> stahl: so not muslims? >> trump: you know, the constitution, there's nothing like it. but it doesn't necessarily give us the right to commit suicide, as a country, okay? and i'll tell you this-- call it whatever you want, change territories, but there are territories and terror states and terror nations that we're not gonna allow the people to come into our country. and we're gonna have a thing called "extreme vetting." and if people wanna come in, there's gonna be extreme vetting. we're gonna have extreme vetting. they're gonna come in and we're gonna know where they came from and who they are. >> pence: you just asked me if i'm comfortable with that... and i am. what-what donald... >> stahl: you're on the same page on that? >> pence: which clearly-- clearly this man is not a politician. he doesn't speak like a politician. >> stahl: he's done pretty well. >> pence: he-he speaks from his heart. >> trump: is that a good thing? i think that's a good thing. >> pence: he speaks from his heart. and...

>> stahl: well, i... >> trump: well, i-i speak from my heart and my brain. just so we understand... ( laughter ) >> pence: right. >> trump: this is maybe more important. >> stahl: let's go to trade. you have voted for every trade agreement when you were in congress. >> pence: i have. >> stahl: that came before you. you're supporting the trans- pacific partnership that mr. trump says would rape this country. now, are you going to be able to go out and campaign in support of his protectionist positions? >> pence: i support free trade, and so does donald trump. >> stahl: not really. >> trump: i do. i'm free trade, but i wanna make good deals. no, no, i'm all for free trade... >> stahl: you've talked about... >> trump: know i'm not an isolationist. a lot of people think because i wanna make good deals... >> stahl: you want to undo these... >> trump: these are stupid people... wait a minute lesley, these are stupid people that think that. i wanna make great deals for our country. we have deals like the deal signed by bill clinton, nafta, one of the worst things that ever happened to this country in terms of trade in terms of economics. >> stahl: what do you think about nafta? >> pence: you're absolutely right. i've supported free trade throughout my career. but... >> stahl: okay.

>> pence: ...the truth of the matter is nafta has provisions in that law that call for it to be reviewed, that have never been... never been initiated. what-what i hear donald trump saying is let's-let's look at these trade agreements and reconsider them and renegotiate them. and... >> stahl: and you're okay with that? >> pence: and with regard to other trade agreements, we've talked about this. i really do believe when the american people elect one of the best negotiators in the world as president of the united states, we would do well... >> trump: we're gonna bring back jobs. >> pence: ...to negotiate individually with countries. >> trump: we're gonna bring back our jobs, we're gonna bring back our wealth, we're gonna take care of our people. very simple. >> stahl: okay. more issues. waterboarding. mr. trump wants to bring back waterboarding, and "a hell of a lot more." are you comfortable with bringing back waterboarding? >> pence: i don't think we should ever tell our enemy what our tactics are. >> stahl: but what about that? what about... >> pence: i don't... >> stahl: he's publicly said that... >> trump: i like that answer. >> pence: i don't think we should... i-i think... >> stahl: but are you okay with

the idea of waterboarding? >> pence: i think... i think enhanced interrogation saved lives. >> stahl: and you're okay with that? >> pence: what i'm okay with-- what i'm okay with is protecting the american people. what i'm okay with is when people have the intent to come to this country and take american lives, that-that we are... or that-that we are prepared to do what's necessary to gain the information to protect the people of this country. >> trump: but lesley, let's step further. we have an enemy, i.s.i.s. and others, who chop off heads, who drown people in steel cages and we can't do waterboarding. >> stahl: okay, but, but why... >> trump: okay, they're not playing... >> stahl: ...would you use their techniques? >> trump: what, those techniques get information. i don't care what anyone says. >> stahl: are you agreeing with him? >> pence: i am. >> trump: and get information using those things. >> pence: what i can tell you is enhanced information gleaned information that saved american lives and, i was informed, prevented incoming terrorist attacks on this country from being successful. the american people expect the president of the united states

to be prepared to support action to protect the people of this nation, and i know donald trump will. >> stahl: have you answered me? >> pence: i have. >> stahl: let's talk about the convention. you're a showman. what are you going to do to keep it from being a snooze-o-rama, as some have happened. >> trump: well, i think we're gonna have an exciting time. we've got some wonderful speakers. we have some very talented people. my family's gonna speak. >> stahl: worried about violence outside? this is an open-carry state. people can carry guns. there'll be demonstrators. they've already said they're gonna carry assault rifles. are you worried? and would you call on people not to carry their guns? >> trump: i have great faith in law enforcement. if they don't wanna take their guns, i think that's fantastic. but i have great confidence in law enforcement. the police like donald trump. it's law and order. and i have great confidence that they will do a great job. >> stahl: there's no question in anybody's mind that you want to win this election. i don't think anyone would doubt that.

but what about being president? do you really want to be president of the united states? >> trump: i wanna make america great again. honestly. i wanna make am... i'm not doing this because... i'm sacrificing tremendous things. i could be doing other things. it's lovely to sit down with you and be grilled. that's okay. but i could be doing other things right now. and i have some of the greatest properties in the world. i could be out there... >> stahl: would you rather be out there? >> trump: i tell you what. i've really enjoyed this process. i've gotten to know the people of this country. i've gotten to know places that i didn't know, that i read about, but i didn't know. i've also gotten to see the problems. and it's a movement. now, when you ask me the question, do i wanna be? >> stahl: yeah. >> trump: i wanna be for one reason. i wanna make america safe again, and i wanna make america great again. that's why i'm doing this. and i love it. >> stahl: and you wanna govern? i mean it... >> trump: i do wanna govern. >> stahl: it is different building a movement... >> trump: i do i govern my... i... >> stahl: and than going in there with the nitty gritty and all that tough decision making. >> trump: sure. no, no i wanna govern. >> stahl: okay, this is my absolute final question. >> trump: okay.

>> stahl: you're not known to be a humble man. but i wonder... >> trump: i think i am, actually humble. i think i'm much more humble than you would understand. >> stahl: as you think about the prospect of running this country in these tough times where the world is spinning apart-- are you awed? are you intimidated? are you humbled by the enormity of this? >> trump: you just said it best. >> pence: mmm. >> trump: in a world that's spinning apart. that's what i'm thinking of. i'm not thinking of, "oh gee, isn't this wonderful? isn't this great what i've done?" i've had people that said, "it doesn't matter if you win or lose, what you've done has never been done before. you're gonna go down in the history books." you know what i say to 'em?" i say, "you're wrong." i will consider it, 'cause i funded my own primaries, i'm funding now a lot of this campaign. i'm putting in, you know, i've spent $55 million in the primaries. i'm spending a fortunate now. i'll tell you, it is spinning. our world is spinning out of control. our country's spinning out of control. that's what i think about.

and i'll stop that. >> stahl: not... humbled or... awe. >> pence: i can say to you... what... >> stahl: go ahead. >> pence: talking with him in private settings, i love the words you used because this man is awed with the american people, and he is not intimidated by the world. and donald trump, this good man, i believe, will be a great president of the united states. >> trump: i love what he just said. >> cbs money watch update sponsored by: >> good evening. after a failed coup, the turkish government is trying to calm investors, saying its economic foundations are solid. yahoo is expected to report lower earnings tomorrow and wrap up the bidding process for its sale. and goldman sachs, bank of america and morgan stanley report earnings this week.

i'm jamie yuccas, cbs news.