pakistani relations. to take a. nation find go to you considering the conversation we heard between jacob and stephen before we went to the break it sounds like in the end it all exaggerate a little bit just for discussion's sake here is that the u.s. has to actually destroy pakistan to win in afghanistan. well i don't think i mean it back. superficially looks like that no no just to not only destroy it maybe even invaded it one point ok because we changed it seems to be a popular flavor of this year go ahead i don't think that there is the day that they should have my view at all why do i in the way i said it we did it for exact even used a word for exaggeration exaggeration for conversation think it's go ahead i use again islam goes on to exaggeration and misrepresented misrepresentation i should go right ahead. i don't think that you know u.s. can despite what it wants despite the divergence i don't think that that should be on the cards that ought to be on the cards or it is on the cards it would be far too risk

president of the future of freedom foundation and in islamabad we cross to ayesha siddiqa she's a pakistani political commentator and author of the book military incorporated inside pakistan's military economy all right folks cross talk rules in effect that means you can jump in anytime you want you know different points of view and i want my viewers to see it but first tell us about the arab in this key strategic relationship where relations between the u.s. and pakistan have never been smooth after the fallout from the u.s. assassination of osama bin laden the state of the alliance has gone from bad to worse admiral mike mullen one of the most pro pakistan officials in washington has referred to the country as the epicenter of world terrorism but his most recent remarks have added fuel to the fire. choosing to use violent extremism as an instrument of policy the government of pakistan and most especially the pakistani army and. jeopardizes not only the prospect of our strategic partnership but pakistan's opportunity to be a respected nation with legitimate regional in floor in his speech

i think i should procreated get an accurate picture of how pakistanis feel clearly there's a division in pakistan between the army and some of the strategist who say want to help want to make sure there's a role for pakistan you know afghanistan and they're using such groups as well as taliban and counties and others to ensure that they have are all mostly to keep the indians out that's a primary strategic goal but i think most pakistanis are a little upset with this kind of extension of pakistan into afghanistan given the fact that pakistan is a failing country along many dimensions as for the other statement i think it's a totally silly i mean there's no imperial goal there at one point in the bush administration they considered having a position in central asia including afghanistan but that was given up a long time ago this clear position now of the president on down as it were in afghanistan to prevent al-qaeda from rising up again and attacking us for that we need a more or less stable afghanistan government with the goal of democratizing i've got a stand it's long since been gi

pakistani relationship going got twenty seconds. well i think it's i think it's heading toward some kind of crisis but we've been in crisis for the past fifteen years so this could be nothing new that i think what would trigger a real break would be a serious american attack on a pakistani facility would there was an atrocity like most of those which was actually supported or pakistani wants to attack on the united states but from buying out i think we're going to bump along in a very unhappy marriage which needs to be reckoned reconciled in a major way salvation policy alliance how do not diplomacy works kicking the can down the road many thanks to my guest today in washington and in islamabad and thanks to our viewers for watching us here at the next time remember cross talk to . well for british science. sometimes the time. markets finance scandals find out what's really happening to the global economy with mike's cause or for a no holds barred look at the global financial headlines tune into kinds of reports .

pakistani relationship going got twenty seconds. well i think it's headed toward some kind of crisis but we've been in crisis for the past fifteen years so this could be nothing new i think what would trigger a real break would be a serious american attack on a pakistani facility when there was an atrocity unlike most of those who supported or pakistani launched the attack on the united states but from buying that i think we're going to bump along in a very unhappy marriage which needs to be wrecked reconciled in a major way i hope. diplomacy works kicking the can down the road many thanks to my guest today in washington. thanks to our viewers for watching. take three. three. three. three three. three . the deadliest riots since the gyptian revolution flare up in cairo as religious tensions lead to dozens of deaths in clashes between the country's christians and security forces also. poland is counting the votes off the bottom entry election on sunday it is expected that the prime minister both of those parties is in line for a seco

that's gone on for more than ten years now they're upset that the pakistani government won't kill its own people to support this crooked corrupt arky patient all regime that they've installed in the karzai regime ok stephen i guess i don't have to ask a question at this point how do you react to what we just heard. i think i should probably created an accurate picture of how pakistanis feel clearly there's a division in pakistan between the army and some of the strategist who say want to help want to make sure there's a role for pakistan in afghanistan and they are using such groups as well as taliban and counties and others to ensure that they have are all mostly to keep the indians out that's a primary strategical by the most part is that he's a little upset with this kind of extension of pakistan into afghanistan given the fact that pakistan is a failing country on many dimensions as for the other statement i think it's totally silly i mean there's no imperial goal there that one point in the bush administration they considered having a position in central asia including afghanista

brave pakistani journalist who, again, it is widely believed was killed by the pakistani military because he had exposed some of the ties that the pakistani military had with al qaeda. >> okay, first of all, this frankenstein was not created by pakistan. this frankenstein was financed and assisted by many world powers, including that was the u.s. so while we are left behind to sort out the mess as the fear of pakistanis is and this might happen again, we must not forget the historical evidence that we have which has led us to the place that we have. this is my plea to you. let's not try and oversimplify a situation which is very, very complex. and let's not try and alienate a popula populace. as foreign minister, my concern is you alienating the people of pakistan. you can not afford to do that. it's 180 million people whose lives have been harmed, risked, affected as we speak today. please understand, please accept the fact that our lives are being damaged, changing every day. we have lost far too many people, far too many important people, far too many ordinary men, women, and children.

government and pakistani people as well. trying to get and that orientation is not easy. you know, we will constantly evaluate our relationship with pakistan based on the overall protecting to help america and our interests. we have a great desire to help the pakistani people strengthen their own society and their own government. so, i would be hesitant to punish aid for flood victims in pakistan because of poor decisions by their intelligence services. there's no doubt that we're not going to feel comfortable with a long-term strategic relationship with pakistan. if we don't think they are mindful of our interests as well. i'll make this last question. amir. >> reporter: thank you, mr. president. >> caught you by surprise in. >> reporter: you did. what should european leaders do to resolve the debt crisis going forward? secondly, how risky is this continued situation to the u.s. economy? finally, do you feel the european leaders are negligent in pushing austerity too soon? >> those are good questions. the biggest head wind

this has contributed to anti- americanism among those now senior pakistani -- pakistanis in office. their right to say that a flawed relationship with pakistan is better than none at all. we do need to stay engaged with pakistan and try to act together with our interest aline. we should attempt to understand the motivations of pakistan in is the concerns, even when we disagree with them. we should seek to build a bilateral relationship based on our shared interest and democratic dahlias, security and stability -- democratic values, security and stability. we need to improve a flawed relationship. the foreign minister of pakistan recently said that the united states in allegations and the isi and haqqanis connections, the united states would lose an ally. our response should be that the only option that pakistan presents us is a choice between losing an ally and continuing to lose our troops, then we will choose the former. my thanks for the invitation and i would be happy to try to answer some of your questions. thank you. [applause] >> so much to talk about. to an early and vocal o

secretary clinton senator mccain president obama they want the pakistanis to do our dirty work for us and the pakistanis have simply said we've supported you for eleven years we can't do it anymore you're killing our stability i know i was part of a seminar that was one of the main host was the former director general of the i.s.i. during nine eleven and he said it's an immense amount of money to host to us and it's immense amount of money to host all the people who have left afghanistan come over there and have no place to go and so that was one of the major points but he also said and this is a little different subject but this is about osama bin laden the killing there he said the country was extremely embarrassed but also very angry that the u.s. did not work with pakistan if pakistan has been so you know basically has hosted the u.s. military there why is it that there still is so little trust between the two countries because the pakistanis won't do everything we asked them to do the united states government senator graham or whoever you match with has a has a real inability to

you have hillary clinton there today warning the pakistanis about the snakes in their backyard.k. now we know that the administration met with the haqqanis secretly last summer and that the aftermath of that was not reconciliation, they didn't put down their arms to the contrary, they had a 20-hour firefight against our embassy compound and nato head quaurqua. what do we do going forward with pakistan? >> the president appreciates the high-level delegation that the secretary led to islamabad. it underscores the seriousness with which we take this relationship with pakistan and the seriousness with which we take the issues of concern, principally ongoing violence in pakistan and afghanistan. as it relates to the questions about who we are willing to talk to and not talk to, the secretary has been clear since she talked about the diplomatic surge, we will try to reach out to those who want to see a political solution to this effort. that doesn't mean, though, we won't continue our effort to protect our security, protect our troops, ultimately bring the kind of pressure to bear on

government and the pakistani people as well. so trying to get that reorientation is something that we'll continue to work on and it's not easy. >> you know, i've -- we will constantly evaluate our relationship with pakistan based on is overall this helping to protect americans and our interests. we have a great desire to help the pakistani strengthen their own society and their own government. i would be hesitant to punish aid for flood victims in pakistan because of poor decisions by their intel it jens services, but there is no doubt that we're not going to feel comfortable with a long-term, strategic relationship with pakistan if we don't think that they're mindful of our interests as well. i'll make this the last question. amir modani? >> thank you, mr. president. >> caught you by surprise, huh? >> you did. what should european leaders do to help sovereign debt prices going forward? and second, how risky is his continued situation to the u.s. economy and, finally, do you feel that the european leaders have been negligent in

government and pakistani people as well. trying to get and that orientation is not easy. you know, we will constantly evaluate our relationship with pakistan based on the overall protecting to help america and our interests. we have a great desire to help the pakistani people strengthen their own society and their own government. so, i would be hesitant to punish aid for flood victims in pakistan because of poor decisions by their intelligence services. there's no doubt that we're not going to feel comfortable with a long-term strategic relationship with pakistan. if we don't think they are mindful of our interests as well. i'll make this last question. amir. >> reporter: thank you, mr. president. >> caught you by surprise in. >> reporter: you did. what should european leaders do to resolve the debt crisis going forward? secondly, how risky is this continued situation to the u.s. economy? finally, do you feel the european leaders are negligent in pushing austerity too soon? >> those are good questions. the biggest head wind

pakistani relations. georgia, go ahead. caller: yes. [indiscernible] hitler was a of a certain regime, right? host: it's very difficult understanding you. sorry about that. let's go on to william in evanston, illinois. caller: hi. is it possible that we are dealing with an old concept which says that war is deceit? this is something that's in the karan and is a very old concept. guest: yes. i think it's certainly the case. you know, this concept of war as deceit. it's not just a religious concept. various scholars have spoken about the fog of war, which is a term coined -- termed by a man the father of modern strategy. you know, this inability to see through the fog. it's a very important point. and certainly the different sides within that war are looking to deceive one another. if you are weak, act strong. if you are strong, act weak. and it is very clearly the case as you rightly point out, that a host of different parties now have an interest in trying to portray themselves in a certain light. it makes it very difficult, quite frank

bent on terrorizing the pakistani people.e failed to mention, much less condemn, the attacks that haqqani and taliban extremists based in pakistan are conducting against our forces in afghanistan. so what actions are open to us to correct the situation? if pakistan will not take on the threat posed by the haqqanis and other extremist groups based in pakistan who attack our forces in afghanistan, then we should be prepared to take steps to defend our troops. it is consistent with established principles of international law. the united states, to defend itself and to defend afghanistan against cross-border attacks by insurgents based in pakistan and to respond to those attacks. the recent report that aha canny -- a haqqani operative was killed in a north waziristan town, an area that was heretofore off limits, an example of the kind of action that is overdue. we have the right to target not only forces and artillery attacking our forces in afghanistan there across the border in pakistan, but to target the people controlling tho

they have taken a courageous action against the pakistani taliban and they have lost 30,000 pakistanis to terrorism in just 10 years, which is just an extraordinary sacrifice. but in our assessment, they can and must do more. so, we want to have a very open, serious conversation about what they are able to do, what they are unwilling to do, so there is no misunderstanding between us. because we need to simultaneously -- as i said at the press conference -- be fighting, talking, and building. in each of the categories, the pakistanis have a role to play. they can either being helpful or indifference -- and we are hoping we can convince them to be all in our efforts. -- helpful in our efforts. >> you are watching "gmt" from bbc world news. the main story -- libyan authorities are planning a secret burial for ousted leader gaddafi following his capture and death. now, there is still crisis in the eurozone and sally is following events in the world of business and france and germany at loggerheads. >> they have said they will not reach an agreement at this summit on sunday. finance ministe

walking away from them would undermine those interests. >> what you pakistani is -- what do pakistanis make of this? we are told that the relationship has never been worse. >> we are at the robust arab. -- lowest ebb. it is unfortunate there is a total breakdown of confidence between the u.s. and pakistan. it is surprising. there is work between the intelligence agencies. >> something seems to have happened in the past few months, a sudden deterioration. the language about the haqqani network being a veritable arm of pakistan, hillary clinton demanding the dismantling of paula bun safe havens. -- how the bond -- tell them safe havens. -- taliban safe havens. >> it sounds like a talking about the highest command of the isi, and that is a big accusation. >> to cooperated with the united states. a number of al qaeda figures were captured during your tenure. but the haqqani network emerged and started conducting attacks using pakistani soil. why were you unable to do anything? cook's first of all, i think the haqqani network was unknown in my time, reasonably unknown. >> january 2008, they

the taliban will not be able to move a finger without pakistani support. the fact is that the taliban were and are stationed in terms of their political headquarters and operational headquarters in pakistan. we all know that. the pakistanis know that, we know that, and we are not saying this in a manner of accusation and reprimand. >> if you say you're not going to talk to the very people who are -- >> sir, we have not said that we will not talk to them. we said we don't know who to talk to. we don't have an address. the moment we get an address for the taliban, we'll talk to them. >> the policy until just the other day was to talk to them. >> yes, to talk. >> so you were talking to them. you had something of an address. >> we were demand demanding, we were asking for negotiations. we wanted to talk to them. but with the assassination of president chobani and by someone who came in the name of a messenger from taliban, how do we know that we don't have an address to talk to? you don't talk to suicide bombers. >> after their long occupation of afghanistan,

the former pakistani president gives us his friend assessment of where things stand with the u.s.. >> there is a breakdown in confidence between pakistan and the u.s.. >> get ready broadway, there is a new twist on the language barrier leaving audiences laughing. welcome to our viewers on pbs in america and also around the globe. after a marathon session which stretched into the morning, the leaders of the eurozone said they struck a deal which will help solve the debt crisis. banks are being asked to write off half of what they were owed. global markets cheered what they heard, was this enough to save the euro? clucks europe woke to the news that against expectations, the leaders had agreed on a plan to fix the eurozone crisis. it might not where did the big bazooka some are calling for but politicians claimed that during the night the euro had been saved. >> i think it is much better than before. >> you will have to wait a couple of days to be sure. >> stock markets enjoyed a bounce. the euro crisis had been seen as increasing the risk of global recession. leaders had been under the

the pakistani prime minister praised his country's relations with china calling them quote higher than mountains deeper than oceans stronger than steel and sweeter than honey washington on the other hand seems to have mastered the art of alienating friends with pakistanis taking america's accusations that they support terrorists as a way to shift the blame for the failure of u.s. policies on pakistan but the blame game may blow up into a full scale aggression if the experts believe that we need to elevate our response they will have a lot of bipartisan support on capitol hill u.s. lawmakers have already signaled that if there is the will for tough action against pakistan they'll support it and when washington says the words safe haven for terrorists that's what you expect top faction and if it does happen pakistan could be the new afghanistan but with china as a friend and nuclear bombs at hand sounds like a deadly combination for the united states i'm going to check our reporting from washington our team. and in the next hour our team is cross talk to bait talks about what's ahead for

pakistani relations. american and pakistani interests are so different you know afghanistan and with regard to support for these terrorist groups we could see the move of american policy from alliance with pakistan which is a nominal lie and it's an alliance of which both sides lie to each other it's like a very bad marriage where both sides were unfaithful to the other two containment we could see america moving towards a containing contending pockets but i don't think that's going to happen i think it's most pakistanis understand they need america back in relationship not going to be culturally politically there's no imperial ambition there we're trying to get out we're trying to punish the people who attacked the united states we've done some most of that and there's a lot of argument for getting out very quickly certainly obama and much of the right ministry of the republicans want to get out about going to very quickly jake if you want to jump in there. stephen the government's been killing people fo

. >> a news conference with pakistani counterpartner, secretary of state hillary clinton acknowledgedhe poor state of relations between the two countries. >> it is no secret that the united states and pakistan do not always see eye to eye. and we will not resolve the differences in our cues in any single visit. >> the night before, four hours of talks between the high level officials failed to get pakistani to concede members of the government are providing assistance to the violent hakani network. >> there is no question of any support by any pakistani institution, or any institution to safe havens in pakistan. >> mrs. clinton warned the pakistanis are playing with fire. >> you have can't keep snakes in your backyard and expect them only to bite your neighbors. >> later with pakistani reporters, the secretary confirmed the u.s. held talks with hakani members. some members of congress pushing to declare organization a terrorist group. even before the may raid that killed usama bin laden, embarrassed the pakistanis, relations with the u.s. was cooling. the afghan peace negotiator by su

many muslim pakistanis are protestering the punishment of his killer. the court handed down a death sentence to a police officer saturday. he was a former bodyguard to a governor, but shot dead the man he was supposed to be protecting in january. he told the court that the governor deserved to die for imposing laws that mandate the death sentence for criticizing islam. on sunday, hundreds of supporters gathered in islambad to protest the decision>> translator: we protest this verdict and appeal to the government we should be given justice. >> the law has been criticized by international organizations, including human rights watch as a tool for persecuting religious minorities. dozens of pakistanis are sentenced to death each year for blasphemy, although actual executions are extremely rare. >>> and finally, after decades of conflict, the residents of kabul are used to explosions, gunfire, and the sounds of war, but this weekend, there was a new sort of noise in the air. rock music. ♪ the first music festival in afghanistan in three long decades took pla

we saw an insurgency that was not only getting passive support from the pakistani army and a pakistani intelligence service but getting active support. >> it was only when the u.s. stock given pakistan tipoffs of impending drawn attacks that the attacks became successful. >> at the beginning of the drone operations, we gave pakistan advanced tipoff of where we were going and every single time, the target was and there anymore. you did not have to be sherlock holmes to put the cost to get there. -- the target was not there anymore. >> pakistan has denied the allegations. they deny they have backed the taliban. >> the evidence, this all speaks contrary to the perception that the isi is in support of these groups, is providing essential areas, is providing material support. >> the recent assault on the u.s. embassy was blamed on afghanistan -- on pakistan as the u.s. has taken a harder line. this raises further on a couple questions from the u.s. and u.k. government who both have large budgets for pakistan and counted as an ally. >> you are watching "bbc world news america," still to come

operating ied factories on pakistani soil. factories that are making bombs to kill u.s. troops. more recently, admiral mullen asserted that the haqqani network, a group believed to be responsible for the september 10th truck bomb that wounded 77 american soldiers and the september 13th attack against the u.s. embassy in kabul, is a, quote, veritable arm of pakistan's isi. these events raise very serious questions about pakistan's commitment to work with us to defeat the terrorists that threaten pakistan and the u.s. coalition forces, u.s. and coalition forces in afghanistan. this behavior must stop. in 1957 president eisenhower remarked that the united states was, quote, doing practically nothing for pakistan except in the form of military aid. he voiced concern that the american commitment to pakistan's military was perhaps the worst kind of plan and decision we could have made. it was a terrible error, but we now seem hopelessly involved in it. sadly, these words remain true today. given the current climate, i support the ad

we saw an insurgency that was not only getting passive support from the pakistani army and a pakistani intelligence service but getting active support. >> it was only when the u.s. stock given pakistan tipoffs of impending drawn attacks that the attacks became successful. >> at the beginning of the drone operations, we gave pakistan advanced tipoff of where we were going and every single time, the target was and there anymore. you did not have to be sherlock holmes to put the cost to get there. -- the target was not there anymore. >> pakistan has denied the allegations. they deny they have backed the taliban. >> the evidence, this all speaks contrary to the perception that the isi is in support of these groups, is providing essential areas, is providing material support. >> the recent assault on the u.s. embassy was blamed on afghanistan -- on pakistan as the u.s. has taken a harder line. this raises further on a couple questions from the u.s. and u.k. government who both have large budgets for pakistan and counted as an ally. >> you are watching "bbc world news america," still to come

peter bergen says if they do the pakistanis may have a case.t to a well-known spying case in the u.s. in 1980s. >> pollard was try for spying for the countries intelligence service, israel, why should pakistan treat its citizens any different than the way we treat americans who spy for friendly countries. >>> a source tells cnn u.s. officials spoken to the pakistani counterparts to get the doctor released. i asked robin wright and u.s. officials said nothing about the matter. maybe revealing detail of the operation? >> the united states done want to oto implicate him. >> reporter: pakistan is likely to free other key figures in the story. the three wives of bin laden, take noon custody by the pakistanis after the raid. pakistan has decided they're free to go back to their home countries and contacts saudi arabia and yemen to make arrangements. >> saudi arabia, the wives will not be a major issue. saudi women are hidden from view in most cases anyway. and these are observant women not looking for attention. >> robin wright says, bin laden's wife

in a town hall meeting today, speaking the a group of pakistani young people, clinton pushed for the government there to use its influence to bring the terrorist that canny network to the negotiating table. earlier secretary clinton spoke on america's strategic relationship with pakistan. >> we're trying to increase our efforts on the afghan side of the border and we're working with our pakistani partners to explore the ways that we can squeeze them. we think that we can do more to appeal to the pakistani people to report suspicious activity, to work with their law enforcement personnel so that we can begin to deny safe haven on both sides of the border. that is our mutual goal. >> pakistani foreign minister responded saying militant safe havens exist on both sides of the border. >>> late last night republicans and democrats both fell short of the 60 votes needed to bring their rivalling jobs bills to the senate floor. in a 50/50 vote senators blocked part of the plan that included $35 billion for states and cities to retain, rehire teachers, police officers and first responders. fun

the pakistanis are at war with their own brand of pakistani taliban and lots of formerly loyal jihad groups which are carrying out these domestic terrorism attacks inside pakistan so i really don't think it is going to make that much difference to the pakistanis. what they would like to do is come up with a situation in which there is enough afghan taliban influence in the country for the haqqani network to serve as a check against indian influence but don't what the afghan taliban calling the shots in afghanistan either because they don't want to go back to the period that existed before 9/11 because that was a disaster and they don't want to repeat it. >> i would like to think if the u.s. withdrawal leaves to acquire situation in afghanistan that that might provide breathing room and less media craziness from pakistan. a little bit of space but that is if the u.s. withdraws leading to a quieter situation. we don't know that. >> one of the observations i saw, a colleague of mine -- >> are you pakistani? you are indian. >> when it happened, when the margin happened, all the progress

. >> nhk obtained this footage of a training camp belonging to the pakistani taliban. the largest islamic fundamentalist group in the country. the camp is sit ysituated in a mountainous region near afghanistan border. they are all young boys. >> more and more young train ooes like these have blown themselves up in pakistan and afghanistan. terrorist groups use boys because they draw less suspicion from the military and the police. 19 years old, he lives in this neighborhood. he was just 17 when members of the pakistani taliban stormed into his house and took him away. >> translator: they took me to the mountain over there. they handed me a bomb and told me to join the jihad. >> he says his abductors slash his arm and put a knife to his throat when he refused it. he eventually managed to escape but says many other boys are still being held at the camp. >> translator: i still have nightmares about the horror i experienced. the memory haunts me. abductors may return. >> to improve the situation, the pakistani built a facility two years ago for boys from islamic extremists

clinton spoke with reportsers following talks with pakistani foreign minister karr on friday. she said the u.s. is planning to step up military operations against taliban forces along the afghan afghan-pakistani border. and urged the government to crack down on the afghan-based militants, including the haqqani network. >> we asked very specifically for greater cooperation from the pakistani side to squeeze the haqqani network and other terrorists, because we know that trying to eliminate terrorists and safe havens on one side of the border is not going to work. >> we are keen to cooperate with you and other countries more closely to be able to evolve a common strategy to be able to fight against terrorism. we are keen to be able to share, to be able to increase cooperation in the intelligence field and other fields. let all that be clear. >> khar refrained from saying whether her country will launch an operation to eradicate militants in line with u.s. demands. clinton led an unusually it included c.i.a. chief, david petraeus and joint chiefs of staff, general martin dempsey.