unions these days. the only place they are going is in government where as the irs case shows, they can use force against their political opponents and we should cut ties with them all together. >> explain why the government employees, why should they unionize? >> because people have a right to unionize. i think any group of workers has a right to unionize. i do think unions have played an important in the country. that said, it is time to look at some of the issues about not being able to fire people whether it's firing teachers or government workers. i work in the clinton administration and we had somebody who was a civil servant in my area who just never came to work. >> allow me. what's going on. lois learner who pled the fifth in front of a congressional panel saying that she didn't want to incriminate herself. she wants to plead the fifth.nd in the aftermath of that, she is not even let go. she is on leave with pay. this drives us crazy. >> for drives everybody crazy. you can support the idea of unionizing and still have it drive you crazy. in favor of not firing you right away is they want to give

because i wasn't aware, and this is maybe my down fall, that the irs had become this left wing union.hat's the thing. and i'll go back to jeff lorde on this. >> you knew about ntiu. you knew about that. >> i know, but i didn't know -- i always looked at the irs as kind of a bunch of accountants. now what i'm learning is, they have this left wing union bias, jeff lorde. maybe the facts aren't in yet, i agree. but there is enough to ask the questions you're asking, isn't there? >> are you asking me? i'm sorry, go ahead. >> i'll tell you, larry. the problem here is that the irs union is basically both player and referee here. they are going out in their political world and collecting money from irs employees, voluntarily, they say, but, of course, you know, what does the word voluntary mean. and they're giving it to anti tea party candidates and then they turn around and they have in their professional lives and the irs, they are going after the tea party, they're withholding applications, they're slowing down the process. all of this for plain old fashioned partisan politics. and this i

irs. are unions standing in the way. first the ap and then fox news. are you on the white house enemy list? >> and a twister that hit the senator said this. >> the damage that your polluters and denoticers doesn't just hit oklahoma, obama and teixeira. >> he is apologizing but why are tone- deaf democrats cashing in? i am eric bo ling. welcome to cashin' in. welcome every body. calls growing for the white house to can irs workers and they are unionized and unions protect them. is this a conflict of special in >> it is an inherit conflict of interest and there is pis embedded there. they are protected and difficult to remove them and they have a positive incentive to go along with the administration. irs workers and political donations, 2008 to 2012 to president obama. fate percent of them contributed to president obama and his reelection. they got a good thing going with him. versus romney and mccain, only 22 percent. >> the political action committee and far out number the ones to democrats to republicans. johnathon you love them, don't you. >> people

it's been reported that the irs union chief, colleen kelly. >> right. >> met with president obama on march 30th, 2010 in a face-to-face meeting. >> even worse. >> the day after it looks like they began the irs targeting tea party groups. >> according to the inspector general who picked out april 1st as the day they started this process, right. according to the white house logs, miss kelly visited the white house. now, what did she talk about? by the way, it says visited the president. i don't know. who else? i'll give you another one. jack lew who used to be chief of staff tor president obama who now heads the treasurery that oversees the irs. tie ratyrannical governments seo bounds. if the lap dog media ever gets off president obama -- >> what day did they have the meeting. >> march 31st, 2010. >> taking the fifth? i'm not sure she's not just protecting herself. i think lois lerner will take the fifth to protect herself, obviously, or protect maybe the white house or maybe she's afraid of the back lash from the white house if she doesn't. >> bob? >> is your assumption, if i follow yo

union. it represents the irs workers. that union has not been discussed yet, but it may be the source of this problem of these attacks on the conservative groups and on march 31st, 2010, this is according to american spectator. you may disagree with them. lord knows. but they're making a case that the head of that union, col len kelly, met with president obama. this is shortly after the united decision came down. i am troubled by that, governor ren dem. because i have been looking for a quarterback. i have been looking for a quarterback for this leftist movement in the irs and now i see this government union and i say to myself, that could be the quarterback mt. >> larry, quickly, no. one, i think they can find out about that with subpoena power. number two, i repeat, to weed a conspiracy theory, you have to assume a george w. bush appointtee was in on it. ludicrous. >> you don't need a conspiracy to commit crimes. >> larry said there is a possible conspiracy between the union and the white house. larry just said that. >>

the irs coming back to the irs, the head of the union at the irs gives 99% of her campaign money to democrats. she openly criticizes the republican house for trying to reduce government spending and has specifically targeted tea party groups in her public comments. it's no wonder that the agents in the irs sort of get the message the president demonizes his opponent, the head of their union -- >> senator, that's a leap can you make as argument but you don't have fact to back it up. you can create -- i asked dan pfeiffer about it. can you talk about a culture. do you have any evidence that the president of the united states directed what you call a culture of intimidation at the irs to target political opponents? >> i don't think we know what the facts are. >> that hasn't stopped you from accusing. >> we're talking about an attitude the government knows best, the nanny state is here to tell us what to do and if you start criticizing, you get targeted. >> let me stop you for a minute. >> david, let me finish. david, let me finish. the investigation has just begun. i'm not going to reach a concl

irs. are unions standing in the way. first the ap and then fox news. are you on the white house enemy list? >> and a twister that hit the senator said this. >> the damage that your polluters and denoticers doesn't just hit oklahoma, obama and teixeira. >> he is apologizing but

. >> blasted democrats from taking campaign contributions from the irs employees union.hey are calling on lawmakers to give the money back. a dozen republicans also got contributions. harris? >> harris: hairs wendell goler outside the white house. g.o.p. leaders are demanding more documents about the attack on our u.s. outpost on benghazi, libya. the white house released nearly 100 pages of emails. republicans say they don't cover the days right after the attack which killed u.s. ambassador to lib christopher stephens. state department officer sean smith and two former navy seals tyrone woods and glen doherty. important dates to know about. catherine herridge live at the state department. catherine? >> thank you, hairs. today the house government oversight committee issued a subpoena to ambassador thomas pickerring. the co-chair of the state department's internal review or the accountability review board to appear on capitol hill next week for a deposition. the republican chairman of the oversight committee congressman darrell issa wrote, quote: your refusal to it allow

is the reason we are not getting to the bottom of the mess at the irs because of the worker's union. they are looking into that. at the the bottom of the hour. here on forbes, senator tom coburn from oklahoma. they plan to rebuild after the big storm could be paid for by cutting the government's budget. is he right or heartless? the answer is next. thank you orville and wilbur... ...amelia... neil and buzz: for teaching us that you can't create the future... by clinging to the past. and with that: you're history. instead of looking behind... delta is looking beyond. 80 thousand of us investing billions... in everything from the best experiences below... to the finest comforts above. we're not simply saluting history... we're making it. . >>> oak home ans are busy cleaning up and the costs are mounting. the most receipt estimates are topping $2 billion. now the debate over how to pay for it. senator tom coburn it is additional funds raised for his state should be offset with spending cuts. critics are calling it heartless, but you say he is right. why? >> this is the benefit of having

is the reason we are not getting to theottom of the mess at the irs because of the worker's union. they are looking into that. at the the bottom of the hour. here on forbes, senator tom coburn from oklahoma. they plan to rebuild after the big storm could be paid for by cutting the government's budget. is he right or heartle? the answer is next. with the spark cash card from capital one... boris earns unlimited rewards for his small business. can i get the smith contract, ease? thank you. that's three new paper redders. [ boris ] put 'em on my spark card. [ garth ] boris' smalliness earns 2% cash back on every pchase every day. great businesses deserve unlimited rewards. read back the chicken's testimony, please. "buk, buk, bukka!" [ male announcer ] get the spark business card from capital one and earn unlimited rewards. choose 2% cash back or double miles on every p purchase every da. told you i'd get half. what'sn your walle but with advair, i'm breathing better. so now i can help make this a great block party. ♪ [ male announce ] advair is clinically proven to help significantly

. >> and late this evening, nbc is reporting that the irs, the woman who headed the union at the heart of the scandal and appeared in front of congress yesterday has been placed on administrative leave. >> coming up, this year's hurricane season could be a quite active one. are businesses prepared for what may be ahead? first, though, how the international markets closed today. >>> some of today's stock selloff has been due to a weak economic china. investment by chinese companies in the u.s. is now at a record high and growing. michelle cabrera has the story. >> reporter: vitamins of every shape, size and solubility manufactured at this new jersey-based company but owned by chinese inves tors. >> driving over this bridge in new york state? it was rehabbed by a chinese firm. chinese companies spent $6 billion buying american last year. a record amount. the biggest investment so far? amc theaters. a beijing firm bought them last year. regardless of nationality, the goals are the same. >> they have expectations. as you would think, of net profit delivery and returns on investment and att

i think most employees at irs arr really decent, honorable people who do a good job. but let's face it, there's a unionthe toughest, meanest unions in the business. frankly, you know, i think there was a real effort to try and sway the election and not let these other groups get their 501(c)(4) status so they could raise money and help in the case of the tea party, people that they thought were good. they didn't always think i was so good but they had a right to participate, you know. lori: fair point. so what do you think should happen? i know that mr. miller has been ousted. are firings enough? do you think perhaps, he should be held, mr. miller, in contempt of congress for your statements today? >> i actually don't wish anybody any harm but i do feel that he has been disingenuous in some of his answers. you know, it's a tough spot to be on. i mean he clearly did not handle it right. the irs didn't handle it right. he clearly didn't come back, where he had an obligation to come back and say, look, senators, i may have misled you. these are the facts. no, he didn't do that and he should have done that

the union representative for irs workers plays a major role in disciplinary problems. this is the opposite of responsible self-government. >> is this new? do we drop this in the lap of president obama who you say is a weak manager? can he be blamed for this? >> this is not an obama scandal. it is a point made very brilliantly in a column by the washington post what is frightening about the benghazi mess is watching the bureaucracy. what you see is a level of incompetence in our national security system. when you look at fast and furious in the justice department you see a level of incompetence. >> you talk about fast and furious and this. all of these areas, the irs are fast and furious. there is congressional supposedly oversight. the only time we hear about congress is when there is some huge event. and then they come in and investigate. congress really does not do -- i would not give them an a in oversight because we catch these things a lot sooner. >> it is also a failure of, i think, imagination. the civil service model we currently have dates back. it is 130 year

irs, rand paul and hillary clinton. i'm candy crowley, and this is "state of the union." joining me now senator susan collins of maine. thank you, senator collins, for being here. here's what we know so far about the irs. we will have an inspector generals report some time next week. we'll told in that report will show an irs official has said in fact, yes, there was extra scrutiny or singling out of groups with the words tea party or patriot in it as far back as 2011 we are told. senior officials knew this at the irs and didn't tell congress. we are also told by the director of these tax exempt organizations inside the irs that this was done as a shortcut and not out of "political bias." is this passing the smell test for you? >> not at all. this is truly outrageous. and it contributes to the profound distrust that the american people have in government. it is absolutely chilling that the irs was singling out conservative groups for extra review. and i think that it's very disappointing that the president hasn't personally condemned this and spoken out. his spokesman has said it should be investigated, but the preside

mark that's a report that talks about how the irs workers belong too union whose action committee gaveributions to democrats and traced the contribution from the irs cincinnati office, every one went to president obama or a democrat. is the irs a heavily democrat organization? >> let me just say this, i felt always that people from the top to the bottom did their best to call things right down the middle, if you will. and not to take positions that ran afoul of politics one way or the other. when you get to the union, though, it's true that the republican administrations have dealt with the union differently than the obama or clinton administration dealt with the union. certainly some things that i did, i worked to consolidate functions and it resulted in job losses in certain instances. we had difficult conversations with the union. it's no secret the union has supported president obama in both candidacies but i -- to say that that overplays into this, i think somebody would have to really clearly demonstrate that because my experience -- >> megyn: last question. last question here. w

united decision nonprofits, corporations and unions, can spend money in on politics unless the supreme court comes in and you get an act of congress, or the irs actually were could tomorrow out and want to -- publish ad regulation they could say no more money spent on political advertising. but -- they don't -- >> that's -- that gets me to the point with the supreme court setting the rules they set for -- >> even beforesy sense united, nonprofits, could spend money on politics and they did. that gets lost in the fold because it is so complicate. >> which brings me to another proposal i want to put on the table that -- that will ever happen -- doubt it will happen but i want to put it out there after this. when you're carrying forda lot of weight, c-max has a nice little trait,

that people are being forced into buying health insurance, whether they're in a union or not under a penalty that the irse first year but up to $700. as more and more people are being covered by health care without a union present, when the union shows upnd says we've got all these benefits for you, one of the big benefits has been taken off the table. not only is it hurting the collective bargaining stance when they try to get more money which they can't get because health insurance is too expensive. people already get the benefits. >> they have it come up with new benefits, like vacations in hawaii. i don't know. >> yes. >> rick berman from the center for facts. we appreciate it. >> good to see you clayton. >>> coming up here on the show, have you had no luck in the job market because of your useless degree? up next, we're going to show you how to make yourself more marketing regardless of what you studied in college. mike studied poetry in college. didn't work for him. >>> the white house ready to move on surrounding the scandal and the irs. who is going to take responsibility for it? ♪ [ male announc

have got a timeline from the national journal.com ocus on the irs timeline -- host: the decision held the government could not stop unions from spending money to back or denounce political candidates. a little bit later on, applications job, the irs says it receives a flood of applications for organizations eeking 501(c) four status over two years. the number of applications jumps to 3400. the third item on this imeline, profiling starts in march of 2010 because of the surge in applications. the irs centralizes the review of applications. they use words such as tea party and patriot, according to he ap. citizens united leads to a surge and because of this there aren't enough people to handle applications at the irs? guest: political minded nonprofits have existed for quite some time. this led to certain organizations being able to do political and issue advocacy. if you fast-forward into the last decade, you had the isconsin decision that started loosening some of the things hat could be done by nonprofits. in the past, these always relied on donations from individual people that could not take corporate money and could

irs can school matters. after all they will be enforcing obama care which is like lemmings enforcing a cliff. obama care has been about soaring rhetoric and high faluting ideas. even the unions gave small government america which is most of america its cold water in the face. they finally went too far and now we can all see what big government actually reasons. destruction that -- means. destruction that actually means directs. >> you said to me earlier the talking points for the healthcare bill is 78 pages. four times longer than the new obama care short form. >> the original form to apply was the number that people were just like that is too much. so they made a short form 21-pages long. the 78-page document is actually four times as long. i had a rule of communications wise if you couldn't fit the talking points on an index card you had to go back and try again. i'm sure they have footnotes and the like. 78-pages even that becomes a laughingstock. >> for dana an index card is this. because of your size. it was a -- >> and i write really small. >> that didn't work. eric? >> fell flat. >> are you you falling, eric -- are you following the sebelius controversy. accused of ac

. >> neil: if the irs mess doesn't kill the health care law, unions will. why the very folks that backed♪ it no now want out of it. ♪ chances are, you're not made of money, so don't overpay for boat insurance. geico, see how much you could save. are you still sleeping? just wanted to check and make sure that we were on schedule. the first technology of its kind... mom and dad, i have great news. is now providing answers families need. siemens. answers. >> neil: all right. well, no wonder democrats are worried about health care law train wreck. the administration is hitting up companies to pay for it. the irs in scandal may not be able to enforce it, and now the very folks who backed the president and the law want nothing to do with it. unions. here's byron on the about face. what do you make of this? >> great video, neil. look. unions are a major, major part of the democratic coalition to donate a lot of money and time to democratic candidates and the president. for them to turn on obama care is a really big thing. but you've had the president of the roofer

irs actually broke the rules by playing politics. >> good morning, brianna. this is something that has a lot of people upset. the american civil liberty union says playing with the tax code is as constitutionally troubling as it gets. that's what the irs is accused of doing. i spoke with an official for tax administration. that's the agency that's handling this rekview. they're doing this audit at the request of congress to look into the agency's operations and programs and make recommendations. this is something the white house says they support. spokesman jay carney told reporters this on friday and he released another statement yesterday saying if the inspector general find that there were any rules broken or that the conduct of government officials did not meet the standards required of them, the president expects that swift and appropriate steps will be taken to address any misconduct. so, this is something that a lot of people are watching here, brianna. >> athena, when we hear them talking about extra scrutiny, as we heard it called for these tea party groups, we understand some folks in the irs maybe looked at the fact that there wa

irs. its getting worse, the president was right. e union of tim and laura. amazing how appreciative people are when you tell them they could save a lot of money on their car insurance by switching to geico...they may even make you their best man. may i have the rings please? ah, helzberg diamonds. nice choice, mate. ...and now in the presence of these guests we join this loving couple. oh dear... geico. 15 minutes could save you 15% or more on car insurance. >> neil: take a look at that. that's going rate now on a 30-year fixed mortgage, 3.81% but it's the highest in a year," and for folks who were getting used to the mortgage rate for a while. remember when it was pairly at 3%. that's some adjusting and it does echo what has been going on in the bond market where rates have been backing up as money is moving into stocks. of course, for older viewers, you might look at that and say, that's a steal. in my case, we got our first house, that is what we paid per day. the perspective is everything and with rates backing up, some are saying that could be a head wi

union." the president has been knocked off message, benghazi, the irs targeting the tea party, the administration going after reporter phone records. will a positive economic message ultimately drown out those controversies? >> likely not. to tell you the truth, first of all we're not at the end of the irs controversy so it's still playing out. certainly there are elements of benghazi as well and there is the ap in this new report they went after another reporter who revealed something about north korea. these things will be ongoing because congress keeps them ongoing and as you know this is a town that's sort of driven, actually a country where great news, the economy, you'll see the president out there kind of talking about it and pushing it, on the other hand good news is not where headlines go. the headlines are on the irs and things like that. it's hard to get this off the table, certainly helps the president, strengthens his hand as he moves forward with legislation. i don't think it erases the headlines. >> steven moore an editorial writer for "the wall street journal" is here with us toda

you already got uproar over irs thing, a loo of folks saying go slow. and you got growing concern among unions who thought they would get a pass foraying their cadillac plans on their,. >> it if you let me take off my judicial hat, and put on my politil hat, yes, because there are democrats, in the reelection, in 2014, this is going to be so frustratining for so many people, who usedo vote democratic all of the time that even the democrats want to make changesnhe statute, this affects more people, andosts more money than anything that congress did by oneingle vote, to suggestion it is not perfect, or that is has gone too far justifies reality. when democrats combine with republicans and say you were right -- >> you can't tinker with the titanic, you have to start with scratch. >>n aument be on made. neil: the good lawyer winsut. >> president should worry when democrats say, time for a chan. neil: that is right, they are all at judge's side now. >> not all of them. neil: but a goo many. thank you very much. when markets see nothing but net, time for buyers to say in nye nye. the president andov

it's no wonder that the agents and the irs sort of get the message that the president demonizes i had opponents, the head of their union demonizes -- >> but, senator, that is a leap that can you make as argument. but you don't have fact to back it up. you can create it. >> the investigation -- >> you can talk about a culture. do you have any evidence that the president of the united states directed what you call a culture of intimidation at the irs to target political opponents? >> i don't think we know what the facts are. >> we don't. we learned over the weekend that weeks ago the white house's chief lawyer learned about the irs targeting conservative groups. that information was withheld from president obama. the president became aware of the scandal at the same time as the public on may 10 bth. >>> the department of justice is also getting quite a bit of attention. the president and ceo of ap made an announcement. >> the rules require them to come to us first. but in this case they didn't. claiming an exception saying that if they had it would have posed a substantial threat to their investigation. but they have --

the public hates it, the unions hate t the students hate it. the irs hates it.t's what got them in trouble with the tea party in the first place. the tea party hates it. nobody likes this thing. >> when medicare was introduced first by jfk, only 28% of the public supported that. >> lbj. >> no, jfk, when he first introduced it. lbj was the one who made it into law. but jfk proposed it in 1962, and only 28% supported it. when lbj actually passed the law, only 46% of the public supported it. and now it's overwhelmingly popular. so just because something is unpopular doesn't necessarily mean that it shouldn't be enacted. secondly, in terms of the polls, jim will tell you this, and he's a polster. 90% of the american people support background checks on gun purchases, but that didn't stop republicans from blocking that legislation in the u.s. senate. i don't know if we should use as determination -- >> i don't think there has ever been a point -- four years now, obamacare, the discussion of obamacare, the polls have never been favorable to obamacare. another group. bu

way ♪ >>> you think this irs scandal is the biggest threat to the alth care law? maybe not. guess who is against it now, unionssome of the same ones who helped the president push it. eir gripes? the rising cost of health benefits. is this the proof that it's finally timeto let the law flat line. hi everybody. i'm brenda buttner. >> weave all our guests. welcome to everybody. john, did the unions have it right this time? >> yeah. they finally have it right. i'm not sure how they didn't have it right before. this is something you would see in junior high student council politics. it's hey let's give free pizza to everybody, no homework. when they say how do we pay for it, we'll get the rich kids to pay for the stuff. that's the basic equivalent. that's how shallow this is. you have about 20 million union guys, because they're in multiple employer plans about to lose their insurance or have to change insurance or downgrade their insurance and they're starting now to realize there are costs associated with this. it really kicks in january 1, 2014. that's when you're going to see an outcry. 53% of americans think t

president made that january 2010 state of the union address where he said, citizen united case was poorly rendered, words to that effect. may 2010, you have the irsookout computer spreadsheet going after tea party groups. but the potential for it, yes, we only have anecdotal information right now. until we have irs officials coming forward and more people coming forward to say yes, we were audited, this is not an audit story. it is nonprofits getting rejected. nonprofits that basically operate off the taxpayer nickel. either side of the political aisle they want to do that. they want to operate tax-free. irs seemed only to go after conservative groups. we don't see any indication they went after liberal or progressive groups. that is all we know right now. david: by the way, there have been some very big business people who were donating not only to causes like tea party organizations and so forth, but also to the romney campaign who said after their donations were made public, they received audits. so there are some people beginning to come in saying they were audited and they claim specifically because they're conservative. >> the history shows

union. gilroy in santa clara. >>> more confusion and controversy over that irs official suspended following her fifth amendment plea before congress. scott mcgrew, low is learner ist playing ball with anyone. she refused to resign after the new head of the irs asked her to. lo lois lerner has been suspended indefinitely. she was in charge of overseeing tax ex semptions with the i.r.s. she is the first to reveal that they were targeting conservative groups at a speech she gave last month. she took the fifth after a long statement programming she had done nothing wrong which is not how the fifth works. >>> she just testified. she just waved her fifth amendment right to privilege. you don't get to tell your side of the story and not be subjected to cross-examination. that's not the way it works. she waved her right to fifth amendment privilege by issuing an opening statement. she ought to stand here and answer our questions. >> what happens to lerner now. not entirely clear. she could be compelled to testify. she could theoretically be charged with contempt of congress. we will continue to follow it. meanwhile, the ea