kathleen sebelius, former u.s. secretary of health and human services, msnbc political analyst michael steele, former chairman of the rnc and jonathan allen, a reporter with vox. okay, i was going to be -- we were going to be talking about donald trump and his debate performan performance. these comments about megyn kelly, i have to go around the table, starting with you, michael steele. >> why are you starting with me? >> mr. former republican chairman. is this a fatal blow? >> it's hard to say if it's a fatal blow. we thought john mccain comments were a fatal blow. we thought the comments past in the past were a fatal blow. i think this is an unnecessary -- i don't get the logic. okay, i'm using that term, of going after megyn kelly. megyn kelly is not running for office. megyn kelly is a reporter. we get the whole thing with the party and reporters, and candidates and reporters. this is a fight you don't want to get into. then to make it so personal, it really makes it harder for people i think going forward to

having said that as sectors of health and human services, both michael leavitt and kathleen sebelius got an enormous amount accomplished. mike leavitt, george w. bush in 2005-2009 and, of course, governor sebelius was under president obama, 2009-2014, specially during the affordable care act years. but also oversaw the center for medicare and medicaid services, and thus we're going to talk about some. governor leavitt was deeply involved in implementing medicare part d are both were vigorous proponents for the reauthorization of chip, the children's program, and got it done. in some ways i think your perspective as governors having to administer especially things like medicaid will bring a particular insight. so it's my pleasure to introduce to very close friend of the aspen institute both with, whether last summer, while the help will be there again this summer. governor sebelius and governor leavitt. [applause] >> thank you. thank you very much. you once said, governor leavitt, when you were the secretary that use of medicare and medicaid may be drifting towards disaster. how did yo

kathleen sebelius is qualified for run but no washington political skills. she had not been here. they had a great plan. it is up ended because he cannot get confirmed because of a tax problem so they abandoned having a ceo of health care. if you look at the problems from the legislation passing, to writing to, to implementing it. they had the right idea and they abandoned it i would argue. >> host: what conclusion do you draw about the debate that went on about various points about whether to go big or go small, get what you can and not hold up the system for the big c comprehensive bill. this is too big with where the economy is. chuck schumer made it very clear how he feels on this. if you look at the history of modern presidents going back the last 50 years, most of the accomplishments in the agenda happen in the first two years and the rest are managing problems or fixes. they were right to do whatever it took, i think, the lesson a new president is going to have from this, and i think it could be the wrong lesson short term, is if you look at obama's success in getting healt

. >> that is the skate when secretary of health and human services kathleen sebelius stops by to discusslout of the obama care website. >> we're going to do a challenge. i'm going to try and download every movie every made, and you are going to try to sign up for obama care and we'll see which happens first. >> okay. >> i think what makes jon stewart so proufl is that he could -- powerful is that he could look at what his own people are doing and saying, hello, what are we doing. and that is important. if you are going to be a pundit, you have to look at everything. particularly if your going be a funny pundit. >> one of the mostin fam ois confrontation comes on march 12th, 2009, when jim cramer takes the hot seat on the biggest financial crises to date. >> how the hell did we end up here, mr. cramer? what happened? >> i don't know. >> i think jon was trying to caption this national sense of anger at everything that happened and so when jim cramer got in that room, he was the embodiment of everything that jon wanted to take down. and boy, did he take him down. >> it feels like we are cap

. >> that's the case when secretary of health and human services kathleen sebelius stops by to discuss rollout of the obamacare web site. >> we'll do a challenge. i'm going to try and download every movie ever made -- [ laughter ] >> -- and you're going try to sign up for obamacare and we'll see which happens first. [ laughter ] >> i think what makes jon stewart so powerful is that he can look at what his own people are doing and say "hello? what are we doing? and honestly that's the important thing if you're going to be a pundit, you have to look at every -- particularly if you're going to be a funny pundit. >> narrator: one of stewart's most infamous confrontations comes on march 12, 2009, when cn cnbc "mad money" host jim cramer takes the seat in the wake of one of the biggest american financial crises to date. >> how the hell did we end up here, mr. cramer? what happened? >> i don't know. i don't know. >> i think john was trying to channel this national sense of anger at everything that happened so when jim cramer got in that room, he was the embodiment of everything that jon wante

. >> that's the case when secretary of health and human services kathleen sebelius stops by to discussoll-out of the obamacare website. >> we're going to a challenge. i'm going to try and download every movie ever made. and you are going to try to sign up for obamacare. we'll see which happens first. >> what makes jon stewart so powerful is that he can look at what his own people are doing and say hello, what are we doing? and honestly that's the important thing if you're going to be a pundit you have to sort of look at everything. particularly if you're going to be a funny pundit. >> one of his most infamous confrontations comes on march 12 2009 when cnbc mad money host jim cramer takes the hot seat in the wake of one of the biggest financial crisis to date. >> how the hell did we end up here? what happened? >> i don't know. i don't know. >> i think jon was trying to channel this kind of national sense of anger at everything that happened and so when jim cramer got in that room, he was the embodiment of everything that jon wanted to take down. and boy, did he take him down. >> it feel

. >> in 2013 when then secretary of health and human services kathleen sebelius came on the show to pitch wanted. >> hundreds of thousands of accounts created -- >> hundreds of thousands of people signed up? >> of accounts created which means they're going to go shopping. this is like a kayak site where you might check out what plane you want to get on. >> her answers i felt were so beyond understanding, like, what are you talking about? >> then there this was interview with former secretary of defense donald hums fell, he believe he left him off too easy during the exchange about 200 invasion of iraq. >> in the effort that it took to sell us this. >> that's a little strong. >> okay, in the effort it to the administration to present -- you were selling it, you prepared the positives, you didn't present the negatives. okay, fine. then i moved on. i should have just side there. i lost a lot of sleep on that one. he didn't. >> but rumsfeld's former boss, george w. bush, is one big name who never appeared on the show with stewart. >> i'm willing to throw in if you come on this program complim