no different than the president with solyndra. what do you say?e to remember corporations don't really pay taxes. they make business decisions. americans pay taxes. anytime we employ americans, even if the corporation pays no taxes those americans not only pay taxes but they earn the money they need to support their families and they're not on the public dole. 1100 jobs matters. neil: so a president should fight for that? >> i think a president and a governor should fight to make sure the jobs are created -- neil: but this same deal, congressman, i'm sorry, sir, this same deal was on the table roughly a year ago. that is when mike pence long before he became the vice president-elect, while he was governor trying to incentivize carrier not to go through with this. the presence of donald trump, making this a big national issue changed things, right? >> donald trump makes a difference and one of the reasons he makes a difference along with vice president-elect pence, they said they will roll back regulations. they will make america a place where manu

and choose chooses and energy like solar jobs, ion though it backfired on him when in the case of solyndra that company went bust. having said that, there is a role for the president to play here or does he have to be careful how actively he gets involved because what you do for carrier, you have to do for every ceo who might be considering such a move. >> having run small businesses myself which half of what we brought in went out the door to state, local, and federal taxes,ing this would be a welcome break and it's not about picking winners and losers. it's about making it fair for everyone so that we don't have one of the highers business rate, tax rates in the world, and actually invent sizing programs -- incentivizing where people can go to take the jobs back. we need to be able to hire, we need to be able to go to work and that's what president trump is doing. he is really remarkable. not -- >> he's not president yet. his actions of a president-elect. brad, want to raise with you -- nothing con desending in -- con desending in your walks but there was cob -- condescending by josh. >>

and he also was a supporter of solyndra when solyndra was using tax credits to establish its business. and so there is a case to be made against donald trump. i don't think bernie sanders is really the person to be making it. >> mark press top, the president-elect now fwips his formal thank you tour as they're calling it fairly soon in cincinnati. a huge rally there, they have a big auditorium, big stadium, about 20,000 people might be able to fit in. we'll see how many actually show up. this could be seen as unconventional, but is it a new way for donald trump to deliver his message directly to the people to continue all these huge rallies? >> this is where donald trump found success during the campaign. in many ways he tried to by pass the media in the last few months of the campaign and go ougt and hold these large rallies in important states that quite frankly helped him win the election in november. not only are we going to see this from donald trump i think moving forward, not every week, but i suspect he will go out and hold these really big rallies to try to connect with voter

i couldn't help think there are places in the book, alan greenspan is on the hill and -- on solyndra, the solar company the grabbed headlines and failed. if big oil is behind that given their animosity towards renewables and the subsidies renewables require. have you seen evidence of that? >> making it alone. >> host: not a bad loan but fanning the flames of criticism in the long run. >> guest: the american petroleum institute in washington is a spun up communication machine seizes every opportunity and political allies do the same thing. i think the underlying question about alternatives in exxon mobil is they are a corporation that can pursue whatever business strategy they want. the question is as a country do we want to create subsidies and incentives for a shift to alternatives that endeded up what solyndra provided and why would we? we are talking about how everybody shares an interest in the lowest-cost energy possible consistent with a sustainable environment. that is the dilemma. you want the lowest-cost energy but you want to achieve your environmental goals. we may not defi

. >> host: if on solyndra, which is the solar company that has grabbed headlines and failed finish. >> guest: right. >> host: -- if big oil is behind that given their animosity towards kind of renewables and the subsidies renewables require, do you see any evidence of that? >> guest: is it the government making this bad loan -- >> host: not making the bad loan, but fan the flames of criticism when the loan went bad. >> guest: yeah. i think the american petroleum institute, they're a spun-up communications machine that seizes every opportunity, and their political allies did the same thing. but, yeah, i mean, i think the underlying question about alternatives in exxonmobil is, it's, you know, they're a corporation, they can pursue whatever business strategy they want. the question is as a country do we want to create subsidies and incentives for a shift to alternatives of the sort that the loan program that ended up with solyndra provided, and why would we? so if you look at it, we've been talking about how everybody in the country shares an interest in the lowest cost energy possible

years of the obama administration job killing in terms of these mythical green energy things like solyndraending billions of dollars things didn't work at the same time putting a chokehold on the coal industry, on those working families that have breathed coal their whole life. wanting to work it wanting to do dhavment they don't want a handout. they want to do the job that they were raised up. with multiple generations that they feel proud about when they go home at night. and they wake up in the morning to put food on the table for their families and be able to give their kids a good education. i totally relate to that and i think because president-elect trump worked so hard and went across this country and actually met people and looked them in the eye face to face to hear them, actually hear what they were saying, not political lip service, and then do something about it. good for him. >> white house spokesman said today when asked about this carrier deal said yeah, it's fine. but it pails in comparison to the number of manufacturing jobs the president has created during his job. i thi

you're equating this i guess with what barack obama did with solyndra and solar power companies, right? >> it is the same government's heavy hand trying to control the free market. >> no it's not and you know it. >> yes, it is. government's heavy hand -- >> you never liked him in the first place and now you're getting childish about it. >> i like donald trump very much. >> no you don't. >> i've lost many friends here in hollywood because i voted for him, but i think he's made a mistake free movement of goods and capital and workers is a big, big part of what makes us a rich country. >> but part of it is your contempt for donald trump. >> no, it's not contempt for him. i think he's great. >> yeah capitalism. >> you're goading the wrong person here. >> final word on the subject. >> well, the one thing we haven't talked about is the real enemy here is automation, that's why these jobs are going away. donald trump's not going to be able to do anything about it, unions won't be able to do anything about it and so on. >> sadly the money they're getting from the taxpayers are going to invest

someone stole your kid any and you can't stop screaming, the fortune green energy has been passed from solyndrao a new and unexpected source. children. watch how these out of the box thinkers came with a renewable energy source fuel for propulsion. there he goes. now keep in mind this guy is just extraling the dog. but still clever use of roller blades. did you know that dogs are also spearheading new novel forms of transportation themselves like skateboarding? riding bicycles? there he guess. he's quite good at it. of course scooterring. using other animals as a clean energy fuel source, here we go, is he crack his back? he wears a furry little mask. he said it's therapeutic. somewherwe all know archeologisd their time digging in the dirt for dinosaur bones. we also know how birthday clowns spend their days digging in the dirt in hopes of finding old balloons, malt liquor. but they when combine their powers, they get this. so it' not a real dinosaur skeleton. but some our experts determined those are real balloons, and that guy is real greeking weird. he's a world balloon modeling champion. th

i would hate to see a fixture of the american manufacturing turn into a solyndra. charles: the carrier deal was necessary in the sense there is an intangible part of this economy doing well, and that's us buying into it. that's the animal spirit that's been missing from this economy. the fact that it's been sparked i love. you know what came out today? truck orders for the first time in a long time were higher than a year ago. almost 20,000 trucks orders for the first half of next year. businesses are starting to anticipate. consumers. there is an animal spirit bubbling up. i think that's why the carrier deal was phenomenal. 35% tariff, it's a tough one. either we are going to pay more for these products, companies will make lessor they will stop making it all together. kennedy: if we see inflation start to creep in because obviously the fed's going to make a move. charles: people realize how many parts we import from china that go into machines. it's much more complicated. we love the fact that donald trump passed a big stick and is swing it around. ultimately the

solyndra got half a billion dollars from president obama.anding out subsidies like that is well worth it for companies to invest in lobbyists and fixers who dive into the swamp but for taxpayers it only cost each of us a couple of bucks. to then go to washington to bonk your congressman a few bucks? probably not. >> i guess this is just another lost cause. john: draining the swamp may be a lost cause. thomas jefferson said as the natural progress of things for liberty to yield and government to grow. i want to believe donald trump rally says this. >> drain the swamp. john: draining that swamp means killing things like the abrams tank. there are more than 500 subcontractors based in lots of states who are helping to build the tanks and dozens of senators and congressmen who will fight for their constituents. likewise draining the swamp means killing dodd-frank and obamacare. will they kill these? every word in here has a special friend, a lobbyist for 20 of them who will defend it, who will fight hard to make sure everything in here stays the

no better than what barack obama did with solyndra. do you agree?s is a much smaller example. yeah, it's pretty much rank hypocrisy by republicans who are supporting this deal. i would argue that import substitution as a method to promote economic growth has pretty much failed everywhere it's tried. i'm not sure this deal is going to represent all that much in the way of generating a whole lot of positive economic growth in the united states. and as the ceo of united technologies said, this preserves a couple jobs. it doesn't stop the other much larger share of jobs that are going to be moving to mexico anyway. this is a great exercise in symbolic politics. i'm sure you have seen the morning consult poll that says this is really popular, but it's not going to change much in the way of the economy. and it furthermore might save the jobs of people working at the carrier plant in indianapolis. it's destroying the possibilities for their children who are going to try to find jobs once they graduate high school or college. >> daniel, what would you say t

a little rich to complain about that when that's what the did with solyndra. >> pel put. >> the other point i would make, look at what he is doing, in the rex naar situation. that's where in carrier they worked with the company, developed a plan, give them incentives and that -- this was different. this was -- day basically said -- donald treated out and trying to extort a decision out of the company, saying if you do x we'll hit you with y and its took $73 million off the market cap of the company. that is kind of extortion, and i tell you, you talk to enough lawyers about this, it starts get ago into the realm of you manipulate their stock price downwards -- >> that's not what he is doing. >> that's what he its doing. >> -- manipulate the stock price. >> it's what he did. >> the goal was to try to prevent jobs from leaving the country. understand what you're saying. shelby, the one thing i have is it could be the school of unintended consequences and be careful because every company will try to sort of leverage off whatever a state or municipality can do and they'll leave. but there

hence we're going to be talking about carrier the way republicans and we were all talking about solyndraarly in the obama administration. he has done exactly what republicans have been against for all this time. and that is attempting to pick winners and losers. very expensive picking in this case. we've mentioned the tax credits and what was done there. what's not been mentioned is the implied sense that carrier's parent company is going to get billions of dollars in pentagon contracts. now if you're going to start throwing a billion dollars here and there at companies to keep a few thousand jobs in the country, pretty soon that's going to add up to real money. >> let's listen to what the wall street journal has said about this in their editorial. they said donald trump's nonideology cal policy-making will be disorienting. some conservatives will be tempted to tolerate bad policies that appear to be popular that they'd never accept from president obama. many republicans stayed silent or supported nixon as he imposed wage and price controls and created the epa only to regret it later. th

that is one things that concerned people about president obama and solyndra and concerns a lot of peoplethe department of energy is serving as private equity firm investing money in energy technology companies around the country turned out to be political fronts. melissa: that is true, when you worry about the appearance as opposed to cutting through what has been going on in this country, that has held back business, not thinking about the idea that we could create an environment that is more conducive to business, that it is cheaper to have workers down in mexico, why? one reason because you pay the workers a whole lot less but there is a lot more to that as well. >> i think that's right. i think that's right. you said create the environment. we want the president of the united states to focus on big things that affect everybody across the country equally and give people a chance to dream a big dream and pursue it. reducing, reducing, expanding the supply of energy so we have more affordable energy. get rid of unnecessary rules an regulations. >> right. >> getting the tax code right, a

i mean, we're supposed to be the side of the aisle that is angry about deals like solyndra, for example. so when we see a company that we don't quite understand all the specifics of how this deal went through and whether or not -- because government is supposed to stay out of business. >> we want the regulations to not be as stringent as they are -- >> amy jo, i only have 30 seconds left but i want to put this last question to you. we saw in that video vice president-elect mike pence and lots of people have credited the recovery in indiana to his policies. 30 seconds or less, give us what those policies are that in the words of i think your chamber of commerce, quote, makes indiana work? >> government stays out of the business of small businesses and out of businesses and they let people do what we do best, and that is we know what's best for our companies. we know what's best. we know, you know, the value of a dollar and we know -- >> government's job is to make sure the environment is good for businesses to thrive. >> exactly. >> other than that they need to stay out of our way. >> yo

we were very critical of him for doing that, solyndra, et al. this is a similar version of this. these companies are not leaving the united states because they're anti-american or they want to stick it to indiana. they're following the laws of economics, too expensive to do business here. so mr. trump has a choice. he can go from company to company, thousands of them and sort of beat all of them into submission and threaten them with tariffs or focus, and i think this is what he is going to do, on macroeconomic policy like cutting taxes and cutting back -- >> but he is also talking about tariffs and punitive taxes. in fact, we should say he's on a twitter storm this morning and he's talking about th going to t the long-term economy and how you keep businesses here, there's i think a real risk here that if you start doing that and saying that, people aren't going to build their businesses in the united states in the first place because they will be too worried about what they have to do if they want to leave, and so this is just -- this is something governors do. the president of

. >> solyndra. >> picking different solar companies.t, i have seen, over the past few days has actually been praising president-elect trump for this move carrier plants. then you have people like sarah palin coming out writing opinion pieces slamming president-elect trump for this move trying to save jobs. saying this is crony capitalism. that the government should not be in the business of picking winners and losers in these sort of back room deals. president-elect trump is at it again with another company this morning. >> no. listen, you can make arguments both ways. and people have. but the reality is donald trump became president-elect and carrier keep jobs here and people like that and want that. they want those jobs here. he tweeted yesterday about another company in indiana which is about a mile down the road from carrier called rexnord. i believe they manufacture roll herbal bearings of indiana is moving to mexico and rather viciously firing all of its 300 workers. this is happening all over our country. no more. he hasn't talke

bernie, hey, that's playing favorites, no different than this president favoring solar companies like solyndrau say what? >> well, i -- no, no, i don't think so. i think that his mind is in the right place. and, look, he can only -- he can threaten as much as he wants. the truth of the matter is that everything has to go through the congress. i think what he's saying to these companies, which i think is critically important, is part of the reason you're leaving is because your taxes are too high -- neil: right, right. >> -- number one, which is major. number two, neil, we don't know what the regulations are costing these companies. it's unbelievable. i speak to bank, i speak to bank presidents, i speak to ceos all the time. you cannot believe what the cost of regulations is accomplishing in this country. it's stifling business. so what he's saying is, hey, look guys, think about this twice. i am going to get rid of regulations, i am going to bring the tax rate back. why do you want to leave? now, if they need a little push on the side by saying, you know, you're going to be punished for it, et

picking winners and losers, putting their money behind -- the wood behind the bat of companies like solyndrapinion piece this week. is at odds with president-elect trump over his move into the carrier plant, helping to save the 1100 jobs. when government steps in ash trarly with individual subsidies favoring one business other others, it sets ill logical precedent. has the president-elect spoken to palin about this. what's his response? >> no he hasn't. this was a company that was just two weeks ago ready to leave and pack up for good. president-elect trump stepped in, and worked with governor pence and put a package together to make sure that this company stayed. but the truth is by that logic, just taxing these companies at 35% is an artificial punishment coming the other direction from government. i mean, all of these incentives and all of these tax reform measures that need to take place are either incentives or punishment, one way or the other, pushing or pulling companies from doing business in the united states. what president trump wants to do, he wants to take away as many of those

environment for eight years where government picks the favorite industry like green energy, give money to solyndra companies go bankrupt after they got a bunch of taxpayer money. you certainly don't want that. that is what is being conveyed, businesses say this looks great and seeing market go up. martha: take you back down memory lane for a moment let's play this. >> late march he came in front of this committee and did not tell us, you didn't tell us her computer failed. wasn't quite sure we lost them all. who told you the information. you can't remember. >> i do not remember. >> did you tell the white house? >> i never tell the white house? >> when did you tell congress. >> we produced public report 10 days ago. martha: so has john koskinen carried out duties to clean up way things are done at irs? no not even close. he allowed 422 backup tapes to be destroyed. he learned lois lerner's emails were missing. waited four months to tell congress. in that time frame made numerous false statements to congress. yet the house of representatives voted to send the resolution that we brought forward to im

i don't want more solyndra. let the marketplace work based on relative prices and profits and incentives. >> brian quickly. >> i can answer your question to larry, i've been on the phone almost every day with key off the record, on the record senators, the question about what comes first, i can tell you now with conviction, spoken to many people in d.c., health care repeal, number one job, period. i had someone tell me the seeds of repeal could be in place by the time trump is inaugurate ei. which is a risk. if you jab the democrats, still have some power on that issue, does it make everything else more difficult? there is the take on that. >> we have to leave it there. good to see you. >> thank you. happy new year. >> happy new year to you. i probably won't see you before then. i'm off tomorrow. >>> coming up next, the tech stocks that were hot and those that were not in 2016. and they have been on a tear, but is it time to cash in your chips on the chip stocks? that's straight ahead. ♪ xus december tto wish,wi

but it does little to stimulate the economy when it's squandered for boondoggles like subsidizing solyndra and paying cash for clunkers. how do we avoid the mistakes of the past, control the deficit, protect taxpayers, and yet add $1 trillion of new infrastructure in a way that helps the economy and not just lines the pockets of politicallywell connected interests? first, get government out of the way. stop obstructing major infrastructure projects like the keystone pipeline. keystone and many other projects like it across the country already have private capital ready to finance them. keystone by itself would unleash an estimated $8 billion of privately financed infrastructure construction and when complete would mean a half million barrels a day of canadian crude oil entering u.s. markets. in my district alone, one abusive official in the sacramento office of the army corps of engineers single-handedly blocked tens of millions of dollars of critical infrastructure construction desperately sought by local governments in the region. multiply that across the contry, and you can see how many

, that's the opposite of what the administration did under obama financing all these things like solyndra blow by going to a wide range of people to make it look like he's embracing other points of view. but the people he actually appoints are almost entirely conservative. >> indeed. the ones he appoint are different from a lot of people we see going into trump tower and meeting with trump. we sawal goart other day, then he hired scott pruitt to head the environmental protection agency and he wants to reverse practically everything it's don't last 8 years. and there are others. education, merely a colony of the labor movement. and so was education as well. what the teachers unions wanted. stuart: can you think of a single policy that won't be reversed by this incoming cabinet? >> be able to put your kid under the age of 2 on your insurance policy. that they will keep. stuart: that is popular. >> you don't have to keep it on it, though. stuart: nfl ledge end jim brown was on the show earlier today. he met with president-elect trump yesterday. here is we had to say. it was donald trump who

wascomplete about solyndra the president was picking winners and losers.t. but all governors do, all presidents do, write gekko we like to think that we are beyond what we call industrial policy, but one thing, one push from president obama's administration has been a policy to encourage the development of green energy. this is, again, something that no government is immune from. one of the things that i'm curious to see in a administration is there will be industrial policy. they will not collect that, but what is industrial policy going to be? what values are we going to choose as a nation to express through subsidies? do we want to keep manufacturing here? how do we do that? the bigger question is, and he goes back to governor pawlenty, if you are trying to make these decisions, you want to make the economy of your state grow. that is the goal, that is the game. what is a better way to do it -- by going company by company or by saying, "we are going to educate people, we're going to infrastructure"? tim: ideallytim:, you would have an environment where

to this, but conservatives who blasted obama time and again for picking winners and losers like solyndracapitalism, this is a problem. >> the trump carrier shakedown is the lead editorial in the "wall street journal." it finishes up by saying trump's carrier shakedown is a short-term political victory that will hurt workers and the economy in the long run. >> governors and other countries do this nonstop. >> right. >> yeah. coming up on "morning joe," oh, boy. the money party is back. >> remember when we had him on the first time and he talked about doing things in bed. pooping in bed. except he didn't say that. >> what's he going to do today? >> i'm worried. >> you know what dillylan ratig is doing? he's doing good. >> is he going to freak out when he comes on the set? >> i think he's mellowed out a little bit. >> is he growing pot in the dwreenhouse. >> it could go any direction. don't prejudge it. >> dylan ratigan joins the table. >> i love money party. >> he explains why bernie sanders and donald trump are a natural response to the 2008 bailouts. "morning joe" is back in just a momen