joining me now, ken delaney.job today for the network was to go through the simpson testimony and find the stuff that we didn't know that we need to know that help us understand this better. so the biggest thing you learned from this testimony. go. >> was that christopher steele, the former british intelligence operative who was doing this research with his russian sources sat down with his russian contact in rome in september to debrief and explain what he had found. he believed that donald trump was enthralled in russian intelligence and it was involved in the trump campaign. this is not proven but what he thought. >> what steele thought by september of 2016. he passed it along to the fbi. they had already heard something along these ins loo. they knew that from australians. george papadopoulos knew that the russians had e-mails long before. steele felt disillusions and didn't think the fbi was taking him seriously. >> the other item i wanted to ask you about, he went to the fbi in june or july? >> yes. i had k

ken delaney joins me now. ken, let's talk about whaef -- about what we have learned about the people interviewed and the people yet to be interviewed and are the interviews a sign this investigation could be wrapping up soon. >> i think it is a sign that the least one major element of the investigation could be wrapping up and that is the obstruction of justice pillar. as i said, what that does not speak to is what is happening with the question of whether the trump campaign colluded with russia or the investigations into whether there was money laundering as a part of that. we don't know -- where that stands. but we do know that all of these witnesses, including james comey, the former fbi director and jeff sessions, these are key witnesses in the question of whether donald trump was trying to make this russia investigation going away by firing comey and asking him to go easy on mike flynn and there is not people left to interview except the president himself, chris. >> and stick with us, ken. kristin, one of

. >> all right, because ken delaney breaks so many stories, we need more of them. >>> the "new york times" reporting this hour that steve bannon is stepping down from his position as executive chairman of breitbart news, jeremy peters who broke the story for the "new york times" spoke to me on the phone. jeremy, big, big deal and a big statement in favor of donald trump from breitbart. >> that's absolutely right, nicole, i mean what you saw happen here over the last few days has forced an inevitable conclusion for steve bannon and to a career at a website that he helped put at the forefront of american 3politics. it reshaped the way we look at immigration, it reshaped the way we look at donald trump and right now steve bannon is walking away hanging his head low. >> and jeremy, i think we have got the breitbart headline announcing news about themselves, breitbart also normalizing some of the darker forces, if you talk to traditional republicans, people like me in the least, that certainly the reputation of breitbart inside the republican party. what kind of a statement is this that they w

ken delaney, what's going on? >> i thought you were going to ask me about secret society, nicolle. >> you know what, let me do this. let me do the loons justice and play the secret society sound. let's roll ron johnson. >> very good. >> what this is all about is further evidence of corruption, more than bias, but corruption at the highest levels of the fbi. that secret society, we have an informant that is talking about a group that were holding secret meetings off-site. there is so much smoke here, there is so much suspicion -- >> let's stop there. a secret society, secret meetings off-site of the justice department? >> correct. >> and you have an informant saying that? >> yes. >> i want to frame his face when he says, let's stop there. what is going on? >> so, the words secret society were used in a text from the woman you saw on the screen, lisa page, the fbi lawyer, to peter strzok. these guys were having an affair. they were working on the mueller investigation. they also worked on the clinton investigation.

for more on the surprise announcement, i'm joined by ken delaney.t do we know about mccabe and his decision to leave. he was scheduled to leave in march. >> that is right. so -- but what we -- we don't know why he made the decision but we know it is coming as a surprise to many people around him and what we can talk about is the context. which is he's become a focus of the controversy between donald trump and the fbi. it is a political football. and he's been attacked on twitter by the president and some people close to him have just said, you had enough, it was time for him to go. >> in the end the white house sarah huckabee-sanders said there was to pressure from the white house. the white house is not involved in his leaking -- in his leaving. but the president tweeted about him. >> the president has been all over him and sort of portraying him as part of the corruption and the bias in the fbi that is infected this russia investigation. his wife ran for offices as a democrat of virginia. there is no evidence that he did anything inappropriate in

ken delaney and benjamin wittes and paul butler, thank you so much. natasha, we're not letting you free yet. when we come back, an obstruction during justice. that's how one republican described team trump's antics. we'll ask him what he means by that subtle jab. >>> also ahead, one of the investigators questioning -- we already did that. that was a tease for the congressman who already joined our show. >>> and ex-trump as stalin, more harsh words from republicans about the president's war on the free press. the great emperor penguin migration. trekking a hundred miles inland to their breeding grounds. except for these two fellows. this time next year, we're gonna be sitting on an egg. i think we're getting close! make a u-turn... u-turn? recalculating... man, we are never gonna breed. just give it a second. you will arrive in 92 days. nah, nuh-uh. nope, nope, nope. you know who i'm gonna follow? my instincts. as long as gps can still get you lost, you can count on geico saving folks money. i'm breeding, man. fifteen minutes could save you fifteen per

i think you're still seeing some of that play out. >> ken delaney, i want to read another portion from the book. this is an on the record quotes that hallie was talking about from steve bannon. quote, the three senior guys in the campaign thought it was a good idea to meet with a foreign government inside trump tower in the conference room on the 25th floor with no lawyers. they didn't have any lawyers. even if you thought that this was not treasonous or unpatriotic or bad expletive, there's a fair amount of language used throughout the book we can't use on cable news in the afternoon, or bad expletive, and i think it's all of that, you should have called the fbi immediately. that's from steve bannon. if true, ken, how would all of that change what we know about the trump tower meeting? >> craig, i don't know that it changes what we know about the facts. it shows this pro-trump figure, steve bannon, reacted the same way to this meeting every other political professional did and regular americans. it just seemed wrong. you don't take dirt from a foreign government. as tactics you don't

that's been difficult in any event. >> ken delaney, you're the expert on this for us. fire away. is it significant that this testimony shows that the fbi, the justice department, comey and everybody, began this investigation into a russian connection by the trump people before they got hands on that dossier? >> well, you nailed it in your intro, chris. this has been a republican talking point, that the dossier, which was funded by the democrats, caused the russia investigation. it's absolutely not true. simpson's testimony, not under oath, but under penalty of criminal, you know, sanction if he lied, lays out that christopher steele, the former british intelligence operative, sat down with the fbi in rome in september and he basically told them everything he was finding in russia. and he was deeply concerned, by the way, about what he was learning. he thought trump was subject to blackmail. and the fbi's response was, that's very interesting, we've already heard some very troubling information from this australian diplomat who told us that campaign aide george papadopoulos appear

some people went so far as to question that diagnosis on social media including nbc reporter ken delaneyeing a lot of skepticism over the idea donald trump weighs only 239 pounds. will he step on a scale in public to prove it? his tweet and sweets just like that sparking a lot of reaction on social media. doctor jackson has been the presidential physician since 2013, give the conspiracy theories a rest. sloan on twitter said you're saying rear admiral ronnie jackson is a liar? the same white house position that took care of bush and obama. paul on twitter also said missed the constitutional amendment that requires presidents to do public way ins like they are about to prizefight. heather: the president of the united states deserves a little more respect to prizefight i wonder if he would win i think he would. talk about calling for law enforcement. >> anarchist group at the university of texas sparking outrage with this sweet writing instead of law-enforcement appreciation day how about law enforcement incineration day? this tweet got the attention of a lot of law enforcement including b

in "the new york times," founder of gps said they hired steele, saying -- >> i'm joined now by ken delaneynd ely stokeles. ken, let's just pick up that line from the fusion gps op-ed from "the new york times" i just read there. at the very end of that line, i saw when this went up last night caused quite a bit of commotion. when they're saying a source inside the trump campaign, some people were thinking that there's a trump campaign mole who is talking there. what do you know about that? >> that's right, steve. i got all excited, as well. it turns out that was a sly reference to george papadopoulos, who did ultimately begin giving the fbi inside information about the trump -- about what happened during the election, but not right away. not during that time. so it's a little misleading. it's not a secret mole we've never heard of. >> to say it was a commotion online might be an understatement. but in terms oh of this question -- so the issue has been raised out there, the criticism from mueller, you're hearing from trump and some republicans now. is the idea that this dossier, this steele

. >> joining us now, jill wine-banks, also ken delaney with nbc news. ken, let's start with you. what more do we know about this potential investigation into christopher steele? >> well, kay katy, this is a partisan referral by the republicans only on the judiciary committee and something that the viewers should keep in mind. and the other thing to know is it's classified. we don't have the exact details but i have been doing some reporting an talking to some sources and i have come away the impression it is essentially about what christopher steele said about his contacts with reporters. apparently something he told the fbi contradicted with something that appeared through another source and important to understand, too, that the republicans not alanlging that christopher steele intentionally lied here but a material misstatement in a criminal investigation. that's leading a lot of democrats to really question the whole premise of this, why this would be a criminal referral and sort of underscores the point to which the republicans have really been going after steele and the dos

. >> ken delaney has a little more. what does this interview tell you about the investigation? >> well, actually, it's sort of a mystery. i wish i had good answers for you. but it does suggest in one sense that robert mueller may be proceeding to a conclusion particularly on the obstruction of justice aspect of his inquiry. because you would want to go up the chain and interview every official who had knowledge of the firing of james comey and the surrounding events. and there aren't very many officials who are higher thanle attorney general of the united states. at the same time, there is also a vast and much more secret and less visible as strength of mueller's inquiry which is into the question of whether the trump campaign colluded with russia. jeff sessions is an important witness in that because he had meetings with russian ambassador kislyak, but there are a lot of directions that mueller is going that we don't see. and it is not at all clear to me that that part of the investigation is wrapping up anytime soon. and a lot of people believe that mueller will need the test

let's get right to nbc intelligence and national security reporter ken delaney to fill us in.ou and i talked before the show. fill in some of the facts. what's going on? >> well, so, this is a memo based on a classified fisa application. apparently in the trump-russia investigation. the fbi had to go to the fisa court to get a warrant. and what looks to be going on here is that this memo shows that parts of the steele dossier may have been cited by the fbi as part of the justification to get this warrant and that drives republicans crazy because the christopher steele dossier was, in part, paid for as a democratic opposition research project. but the bottom line here, nicole, is that when you're applying for a warrant in front of a judge, the standard is probable cause. >> right. >> so, the fbi talks about what they believed to be true, not necessarily what they've proven to be true. they cite information from all kinds of sources. i spoke to a former government official who has reviewed thousands of fisa warrants who said it would be perfectly normal and not improper at all t

. >> ken delaney and paul butler. thank you so much. >>> when we come back. >> the president is set to give his state of the union and we'll show you the tickets that are the talk of the town and not for the reasons the white house would like. that's it? yeah. ♪ everybody two seconds! ♪ "dear sebastian, after careful consideration of your application, it is with great pleasure that we offer our congratulations on your acceptance..." through the tuition assistance program, every day mcdonald's helps more people go to college. it's part of our commitment to being america's best first job. ♪ but prevagen helps your brain with an ingredient originally discovered... in jellyfish. in clinical trials, prevagen has been shown to improve short-term memory. prevagen. the name to remember. >>> we're back. senator marco rubio this hour is looking forward to tomorrow's state of the union -- a little revenge tweeting or trolling. whoever printed the ticket. >> you expect these kind of mistakes in the white house press release but t

. >> let's get to nbc news intelligence and national security reporter ken delaney covering the story every step of the way. break it down for us. this latest development, give us the details and what does it mean. >> one thing that is really important is the context of this firing order by president trump. it came in june. the mueller investigation only just begun at that point but it was already clear that it was going in dangerous directions for the white house. recall president trump told russians that he thought by firing james comey hes would relieving pressure on him regarding russia but that was not the case. the white house learned in june that robert mueller was investigating whether the president himself obstructed justice in addition to russia collusion. and so now trump gives the order, mcgahn refused to carry it out and now this is part of the mueller investigation into obstruction of justice along with trump asking comey to drop the fbi investigation into mike flynn, the firing of comey, and trump asking intelligence chiefs to state publicly there is no collusion and so

. >> ken delaney is msnbc's intelligence and national security adviser. >>> up next, the white house's infrastructure plan is there any end to your commute problems. >>> chaos in southern california. heavy rains triggered deadly mudslides and floods sending emergency crews scrambling to rescue residents. we will bring you the latest after the break. r trouble in a place like this? (roaring of truck) yes and it was like the worst experience of my life. seven lanes of traffic and i was in the second lane. when i get into my car, i want to know that it's going to get me from point a to point b. well, then i have some good news. chevy is the only brand to receive j.d. power dependability awards for cars, trucks and suvs two years in a row. woman: wait! (laughing) i definitely feel like i'm in a dependable vehicle right now. woman 2: i want a chevy now. woman 3: i know! 40 million americans are waking up to a gillette shave. and at our factory in boston, 1,200 workers are starting their day building on over a hundred years of heritage, craftsmanship and innovation. today we're bringing you