cobb's response and mr.obb is a respected and reasonable lawyer and i'm sure he'll fulfill all of his legal and ethical considerations. i don't think the trump administration will give me anything without a fight. but i'm sure he will do what he can do. >> it's just about lawyers getting along. we'll see if that happens. >> that's just like what happens in court every day. >> when you look at this basically going from michael cohen, suing your client, ben and buzz feed and now it hitting in what you say is a justified way. and ty cobb saying it's unfrivolous. when you see all that happening, do you have a view? does it seem like michael coh cohen's actions have boomeranged on his boss? >> i think a defamation lawsuit is a very complicated thing to file and defend. i don't know that i would agree with the boomerang, but defamation cases are hard to bring, especially after the trump dossier was published and given the way we all know the way the dossier was used. >> over time the view of the dossier has certai

>> look, i would refer you back to ty cobb's statement. there's not discussion or consideration of that at this time so there would be no reason for me to have had a conversation with the president about that because that is not being currently discussed at the white house. >> the question is whether he believes he has the right to use the power of his office. >> the president has the authority to pardon individuals. you're asking me about a specific case in which it hasn't been discussed so i would not have brought that up with him. >> the president who has the power of the pardon, not ty cobb. so has the president -- >> which is what i just said to phil. >> not exactly. the president has the power of the pardon. has he considered, would he consider pardoning paul manafort, michael flynn or rick gates? >> as i said, an on-record statement from the president's attorney, here at the white house on these matters has made there's no discussion or consideration of this. >> another matter. the trade dealthat you spoke about at the top of the br

there is great question about whether ty cobb stays.ed that he would like to stay through the president's testimony if the president does testify. but the president, again, is -- made it clear privately he doesn't like the strategy they were pursuing, so the next person to leave could be ty cobb. we just don't know at this point. >> as we know that the top lawyer on the team john dowd is out, ty cobb, let's see, his status is unknown or hanging in the balance here and we're waiting to see. tell us about some of the things that we had learned just recently that the special counsel was going to want to look into. >> let me just say one more thing about the lawyers, there is the mark castlewitz team, very involved and then he kind of stepped back, you'll recall, months ago, and he was always of the thought, let's be more aggressive. so castlewitz never stepped back totally but there is a question if they become more involved now that you see dowd leaving, and it wouldn't surprise me at all if that happened. and as to the topics of what the

>> i would refer you back to ty cobb's statement. not discussion or consideration of that at this time. there would be no reason for me to have had a conversation with the president about that. that is not being currently discussed at the white house. >> with whether he believes he has the right to use the power of his office. >> the president has the authority to pardon individual bus you're asking me about a specific case in which it hasn't been discussed so i would not have brought that up with him. john? >> thank you, sarah. the president has the power, not ty cobb. >> which is what i just said to phil. >> not exactly. you talked about ty cobb's statement. the president has the power of the pardon. has he considered, is he considering, would he consider pardoning paul manafort, michael flynn or rick gates? >> as i said an on record statement from the president's attorney here at the white house on these matters said there's no discussion or consideration on this. >> the other matter, the trade deal that you spoke about at the ver

>> i would refer you back to ty cobb's statement. there not discussion or consideration of that at this time. there would be no reason for me to have had a conversation with the president about that. that is not being currently discussed at the white house. >> that wasn't about that. it was whether he believes he has the right to use the power of his office. >> the president has the authority to pardon individuals, but you're asking me about a specific case in which it hasn't been discussed. i would not have brought that up with him. >> thanks a lot. the president has the power of the pardon, not ty cobb. >> which is what i just said. >> not exactly. you talked about ty cobb's statement. the president has the power of the pardon. has he considered -- is he considering -- would he consider pardoning paul manafort, michael flynn, or rick gates? >> as i said an on record statement from the president's attorney here on the white house on these matters have said there's no discussion or consideration of this. >> another matter, the trade

ty cobb is a lawyer at the white house who is effectively doing a slot of the paperwork. he's literally responding to document requests at the white house, arranging interviews for white house staff. john dowd is the one dealing with the president personally in his personal approach, but again, i think president trump is making a lot of these decisions. he's deciding when to issue these tweets, he deciding to attack bob mueller personally by name as he did over this weekend, he's deciding to call it a witch hunt and he's deciding he wants to sit down for an interview, even though his lawyers are very concerned about what and understandably so because he has a history of exaggerating the facts and sometime outright lying. there is a real genuine concern about whether he can truthfully answer questions face to face with the special counsel investigators. >> sam, i'm reminded over the weekend of what john brennan said on social media. friday night here we were talking about the words of barry mccaffrey and now john brennan on the board with this. it's a sorkinesque statement

dowd came on with ty cobb and they sold the president on a strategy of cooperation. sooner we cooperate, the more documents we give, the faster this will be over. it will be over by the end of the year. the cloud will be lifted. obviously the end of the year came and went and it is still going on. >> i don't understand how the president fell for that. when we would hear that strategy, every story whether it was your reported story or what we did on air, we would say history indicates we don't know why they think that. like it is hard -- the facts didn't match it. how did they snow the president for so long. >> i think this was a bit of baby-sitting. they were deeply concerned the president would fire mueller and doing everything they could to wait him out. to try and get to the next exit. just wait -- a little bit more -- >> buying time. >> just buying time. because if they said to him, hey, look, mueller is going on for two years and he's eventually going to come and -- and be an even bigger problem. >> probably would have fired mueller. >> and the president in this

ty cobb may be winning that fight. so that is a kind of parallel track that we need to be watching closely, because the stakes of an interview like that are incredibly high. >> vivian, because of your aforementioned front seat on this administration, for the folks who may join us over a martini to kind of get caught up on this day in the administration, on the hubbub scale, what is it like to say compared to 14 months ago? >> in some ways it's interesting and things have calmed down. it's a bit more orderly in terms of the organization of the white house. in the old days we were getting sporadic calls. everybody gather right now, and there wasn't the systematic scheduling and organization that the white house usually has. but obviously behind the scenes, there's a lot of people who are feeling a little bit disenfranchised, sort of shaky because of the fact that there's been so much turnover. and that's not necessarily unusual for a new administration that's just finding its way. but given all of these things, and on to

but be that as it may, i think that ty cobb is really key here. that ty with all the experience he brings to bear on this would understand that the president's options for noncooperation are limited and have enormously negative consequences should he go down that road. so we'll have to see how this plays out. i can't, you know, say much more about mr. dowd's leaving other than it might have been difficult for him to, you know, in his view, work with joe digenova. i'll also say, though, joe's prominence here and particularly the prominence of his conspiracy theories, it's going to make it even more difficult than it appears to have been for the white house to bring in other more experienced people and whose experience, by the way, is more current than is joe's to help them in their defense here. >> well, that said, ken, let me ask you about this. cnn is learning that at least four high profile defense attorneys have been approached to join trump's legal team. all of them have declined for various reasons. one, which was the president was that the p

a lot of people asking what about ty cobb? no indication ty cobb is going anywhere. we haven't been able to reach him yet for comment, peter. i will give you this comment from jay sekulow who says john dowd is a friend and has been a valuable member of our legal team. we will continue our ongoing representation of the president and cooperation with the special counsel. they are looking to bring in even more members of the legal team as they prepare for this next very sensitive phase. >> michael schmidt with us by phone. let me ask you what this does say about this legal strategy going forward. just days ago hiring joe digenova. they flirted with the idea of bringing on a legal superstar, ted olson, who declined that offer. what's this say about the president's thinking and what he wants more or less of going forward? >> dowd and ty cobb have said to the president the sooner and faster you cooperation, you more likely you are to get cleared. the president told his lawyers he had done nothing wrong an they proceeded with that. they said it would be over by the end of l

cobb could not have been more clear. that didn't stop the corrupt mainstream media from obsessing over the story during today's white house briefing. we have the evidence. take a look. >> are pardons on the table for anyone involved in the russia probe? >> i refer you back to the statement from ty cobb. >> can you say no one here discussed pardons in this case? >> i can say ty cobb is the person that would be most directly involved in it. >> does the president believe he has the right to use the power of his office to pardon to protect them from unfair punishment down the road? >> i would refer you back to ty cobb's statement. >> is he considering pardoning paul manafort michael flynn or rick gates? >> as i said an on-record statement from the president's attorney at the white house said from is no discussion or consideration of this. >> did the president direct john dowd to talk to the attorneys of manafort and flynn about pardons? >> i am not aware of any conversations. >> sean: everyone on the press corp appeared to b

still on the team in the white house is ty cobb. and ty cobb has been the furthest in terms of wanting to cooperate with the special counsel, wanting to get this behind them. but he's also told the president that this case would probably be over by now, and that hasn't proven to be true. so that may be the change. obviously, dowd thought he could not be a peer, they could not share the lead on this case and that's clearly why he resigned. i think a war is coming. >> rick, don't you think this is media war or maybe as ryan said spin theories? it appears he has assembled a team of tv lawyers and tv spinners who are going to spin the story about how mueller is, you know, corrupt and everyone is corrupt. isn't it more than that than what they're actually going to do in the courtroom or behind the scenes as attorneys? >> well, the problem for the whole theory of a reality tv set of lawyers is that robert mueller has a team of pipe swinging knee breaking actual prosecutors. and they're going to chew these guys up and spit them out. they'r

when is ty cobb in this mix? what is he doing?> reporter: ty cobb continues on as the president's counsel here at the white house, steph, who handles this matter. his strategy and his approach to this has been to give the special counsel what the special counsel asks for, to turn over as many documents as have been asked for. you'll recall that the president's legal team has been very vocal about saying, look, we have handed over thousands of documents. we are being transparent in this process. we want to cooperate with the special counsel because there's nothing to see here. there's nothing to hide. that has been ty cobb's approach to all of this. over the weekend, this was some concern after you saw the tweets coming out from the president, republicans saying, hey, why are you acting guilty if you are innocent? a broad sense that that could be damaging the initial strategy of being cooperative, being transparent, cooperating with the special counsel. ty cobb, very much continues to be as a member of this team, but he has also co

is cobb's statement a little too late? >> that is perfectly put.the weekend, the war between mueller and the white house got more personal, it got more vocal. you had the president using the special counsel's name on twitter as he attacked him. you had the president's lawyer over the weekend suggesting the investigation should be shut down on the merits. then, sunday night, as more and more speculation came about is the president trying to discredit the findings of mueller in advance? yes, he is. is he trying to lay the predicate for firing mueller? could well be. as that speculation heated up, the white house put out that statement you mentioned when they say, no, i don't know what you're thinking about. that's crazy. we're not thinking about discussing firing mueller. the point of this is and why it matters is that the trump lawyers have tried to have a cooperative approach with mueller. they've given him documents. they were trying to lower the temperature. their client just quite hasn't been on that same play book. >> that's what's interesting

>> my name is debbie cobb. my grandmother, anna mae noell, passed away in october of 2000, leaving behind her 53 primates that i had to figure out how to care for. >> debbie, i'm jamie. nice to meet you. >> glad to meet you. >> you know, i see there's a lot of retirees here in florida. yours are a pretty wild bunch. >> well, you haven't seen the half of it. >> what a beautiful place. it's a 12-acre primate sanctuary, full of irresistible characters. like pongo, a 400-pound male orangutan. >> he really, really likes you jamie, because he doesn't just purr for anybody. [ pongo vocalizing softly ] >> that's purring. >> that's purring. >> i can tell he's a flirt. >> oh, a big one. >> pongo's original home was a zoo in south carolina. but he didn't play well with the other orangutans. >> bye, pongo. >> these guys don't get the option of being able to go to a zoo, so they would have had to be euthanized if they didn't come here. there's somebody else i want to introduce you to, is blue -- is a spider monkey.

and then ty cobb saying there were no discussions about that.ere he stands on this issue, signing up a guy who has spouted conspiracy theories effectively saying that the president is the target by the fbi and doj of an effort to frame him in this investigation. so the bottom line is the president is certainly not only following his own instincts but following instincts that play to his base as well. >> bringing people in who agree with him. peter alexander, thank you. david, on that point, joe digenova, could you see him supporting the firing of mueller? >> oh, i think he would be an aggressive advocate for the firing of mueller. he's as much as said in his tv appearances that he thinks there's a conspiracy driven by the fbi, by law enforcement to get the president. he's described it as an outrage. it's disgraceful is one of the sound bites we had. i absolutely can see that. watching president trump speaking in new hampshire i was thinking, real politics is a relief from office politics. he's out there on the trail talking about what he wants t

the afor the mentioned jay sekulow and washington lawyer ty cobb. yesterday joe digenova and his wife said they could not represent the president. "the new york times" has reported that corallo has told investigators he was concerned that hope hicks may have been planning to obstruct justice about a meeting between a russian lawyer and don jr. during the campaign. our colleague nicolle wallace offered this reporting of her own. >> according to four senior justice department officials i spoke to over the weekend who are all familiar with the investigation is that the two clients in question, mark carollo and donald trump likely have diverging interest, two saying that corallo may be a witness against the president. the other saying we know who mark corallo was to investigate and we know why he left. that may be the conflict. >>> mr. costa, you get to go first tonight. what is the status as you know it of this president and his legal team, his protests notwithstanding? >> the status of the legal team, lonely. you have jay sekulow trying to run the out

and white house chief counsel, ty cobb, one of the white house counsel's, ty cobb, has given us the sameas given the times saying i've only been asked about pardons by the press and have routinely responded that no pardons are under discussion or under consideration at white house. do you see those as denials to your reporting? >> we're very, very confident in our reporting. i also think if you look at the statements that were given to us, and just given to you as well, our story doesn't say that mr. sekulow made those calls or mr. dowd made those calls -- sorry, that mr. cobb made those calls. it's a denial that we don't raise in the story. mr. dowd does deny scheduling the pardons but we're very confident in our reporting. >> there is a flat denial, no discussions, from john dowd, as far as i know, no discussions. >> listen iing to jo, seems to she has sources who understand very well that there were. the big question here is if this it did occur, why, if it was before flynn flipped? >> pled guilty and started to cooperate. >> it seems to me, to raise the question we talked about befor

has told cobb he does not plan to let him go. schmidt's new reporting suggests that the president is considering restoring mark cassowitz to a larger role. kasowitz had run the legal team physical he was pushed out last summer. kasowitz supports the probe. now, former white house strategist steve bannon alluded to the that strategy while speaking yesterday in new york. >> ty cobb and john dowd had a radical theory. let's totally cooperate and waive executive privilege. i have said, as i told the president and told everybody and i told brother dowd, i think tease wrong. there's a process. there's a process that reagan used, there's a process that clinton used, there's a process that bush used. and i think you ought to go through that process. john dowd is a good man and i think that's why more aggressive attorneys got brought in. now i can president trump is going to war. i think it's very obvious he's going to go to war on this. >>> coming up, michael schmidt will have more on this. >> this could potentially clear a path for trum

ty cobb could not have been more clear.hat does not stop their corrupt mainstream media from obsessing over the story during today's white house briefing. we have the evidence. take a look. >> are pardons on the table for anyone involved in the russia probe? >> look, i would refer you back to the statement from ty cobb and the report that you are asking about. >> can you say unequivocally that no one here has discussed pardons in this case? >> i canns say that ty cobb is e person that would be most directly involved in this. >> i'm wondering if the president believes he has the right to use the power of his office, the power to pardon, to protect them from what he might see as unfair from all my punishment on the road? does he believe he has that right? >> i would refer you back to ty cobb's statement. >> has he considered -- is he considering, what he consider pardoning paul manafort, michael flynn, or rick gates? >> as i said, and on record statement from the president's attorney here at the white house, on these matters,

>> i can say that ty cobb is the person that would be most directly involved in this. he has a statement on the record saying there's no discussion and no consideration of those at this time in the white house. >> does the white house worry about what paul manafort might tell special counsel mueller? >> as we said pretty much every day since we got here, because you guys continue to ask about this topic every single day, there was no collusion. we're very confident in that and look forward to this process wrapping up. >> let's go to amy fiscus. amy, all right, when you read this piece, this scoop from your paper, it says john dowd denies ever floating this notion of pardons. tell me more about these alleged conversations that took place. >> that's right, he does deny having these conversations. weeks of reporting and talking to sources, we are reporting that last year that dowd talked to lawyers for two of the president's former top aides, paul manafort and michael flynn at a time when the special counsel was closing in on them. this was before manafort was indicted an

question to you are sekulow and cobb enough to lead this effort? >> no. basically robert mueller's team are killers. i think that's what steve bannon called them. they are some of the best prosecutors that you can find in this country. they've been involved in everything from watergate to emron. and in jay sekulow you have someone who he's argued a bunch of cases before the supreme court. he's best known for arguing on religious liberty not white collar defense. he does have some people working under him who we don't hear that much about who aren't the big names but who have been working on this case. and the thing with ty cobb in the white house, i don't think he sees himself as the president's lawyer. i think he sees himself more as a lawyer of the institution of the president danes and for the white house. and he sees his job more as facilitating a relationship with the office of the special counsel rather than being part of the president's defense team. >> matt apuzzo, you were agreeing with that. >> and i believe ty cobb does not represent the presid

that trump has weighed aloud in recent days to close associates whether to dismiss his lawyer, ty cobbshed most strongly a strategy of cooperating fully with the special counsel investigation. and president trump's lead lawyer, john dowd, con tecontem leaving his post. he concluded he has no control over the behavior of the president. this, of course, on the heels of news yesterday that the president has brought on joe digenova, attorney who pushed the conspiracy theory that the justice department and fbi are framing the. t president. in an attempt to restore order according to the "washington post," president trump's legal team reached out to ted olson, one of the country's most high-profile and seasoned litigators to join forces, but it may come as no surprise given the reports that the president has been ignoring the advice of his lauwyers and lashed out ope ly at the special counsel on twit e th twitter, that ted olson declined to join his legal team. phil rucker is still here with us. if i can, let me start with you, phil, quickly, about these sort of two factions at play within t

. >> i would refer you back to the statement from ty cobb and the report that you're asking about in which he said i've only been asked about pardons by the pres press. >> the white house again avoiding questions surrounding the president's legal team. this time deflecting a "new york times" report that before they were indicted, the president former attorney john dowd floated the idea of the president pardoning michael flynn on paul manafort, subjects of the ongoing miller pro. >> i can say ty cobb is the person that would be most directly involved in this. he's got a statement on the record saying there's no discussion and no consideration at this time. >> this statement may have addressed the broader discussion of pardons, ty cobb statement didn't clarify whether john dowd himself ever made such an offer. john dowd has denied he had discussions with either flynn's or metaphoric's attorneys. based on a day when the white house remain confident that a future meeting between the president and kim jong un could come apart because -- come about because of pressure on the regime. the pr

cobb has pushed for a strategy of fully cooperating with the special counsel investigation. a according to a person who spoke with trump late monday, the president reassured cobb that he had to plans to fire him in part to prevent a narrative that his team was in disarray after the times began making inquiries. meanwhile, trump's lead attorney, john dowd, has reportedly considered leaving because he feels he has no control over the president's behavior, this according to two people briefed on the mart. in response to the report, jay tells nbc news that dowd and cobb are fully engaged and continue to represent the president and his office. but the president has already made one change to his legal deal with a move that reflect aes shift to a more confrontational stance against moouler. as a contributor, joseph digenova has pushed the theory that the fbi and justice department have been working together to intentionally frame president trump. >> make no mistake about it, a group of fbi and doj people were trying to frame donald trump of a falsely-created crime. they conspired

the white house has been telling us for quite a while -- we know that ty cobb's, that's his main role in terms of federal employees would who appear before the investigations, he is upon for that and communicating. will the president ultimately be a witness? that's one of the issues they're wrestling with. no new kind of moving things forward there, but these issues are certainly something the white house will be asked about repeatedly, even if they're not willing to expand on their answers. alex? >> kelly, if you don't mind staying with me as we continue the conversation, joining us both with laura bassett, senior political reporter for the huffington post. laura, last hour i had sam nunberg, had a big long interview with him. i know you listened to part of it. was there anything that stood out to you? >> he seemed a little more sober. seemed to have his wits about him. he went on an unhainged media tour last week. i still question his motivations in doing this media tour. what message is he trying to send trump? who is he defending here? roger stone who he said is like a father figu

he and ty cobb have been saying that. didn't happen. they get this group of, these bundles of issues that special counsel wants to discuss with the president. they realize it's not going to be over. the president is very upset. that's one thing. the other thing is that the president decides, and make no mistake, the president is running his own legal strategy. >> we will get into that. >> that can be a problem. so he wants to bring in joe digenova, who he knows and admires. former u.s. attorney. smart guy. dowd had a problem with that, not only because he didn't want to be co-counsel but also because he believes, i was just speaking with another source, that he was conflicted. digenova is conflicted here because he represents a former spokesperson for the trump legal team who left the legal team in a not friendly way. his wife represents sam clovis, somebody else who has been part of this. i don't think dowd felt he could find his way around these conflicts for somebody who, you know, is representing the president. i think that's anothe

cobb. and the white house counsel, don mcgahn is not in frequent touch with the outside legal team, if at all. so, you have this president on his own up in the residence often watching television, talking to friends and allies in the legal community encouraging him to fight the mueller investigation, and not really trusting his lawyers in the same way he may have done six to seven months ago. the reason for this, white house officials tell me, is the president was told by dowd and cobb back in late 2017 the investigation would probably be wrapping up soon. well, it's march. it hasn't wrapped up. that's left for the president to try to make some moves. >> frank, i want to come back to you and ask a question about something i talked about a minute ago. the dowd got in trouble over the weekend putting out a statement said he was speaking for the president, then speaking for himself. we learned donald trump was angry at dowd because he thought he should have stood by the statement, the statemen

so if ty cobb stays on and the president listen to ty cobb, then i this i we still have an opportunityueller and the president to reach a compromise on testimony and continued cooperation so that we can get to an end to this. if ty cobb goes or if they bring in a new outside counsel, in addition to joe digenova who is really going to ratch et up the fight with mueller, then we are in for a long drawn out fight at least another year to resolve. >> dana, you talked to the president who knows this very well, this is now war with bob mueller. this is what that means? >> yes, first of all i agree with michael, this is compromise or being aggressive. but it's also about the fact that i've been told by several sources that the president was very frustrated that his legal team was telling him through the end of 2017 that this mueller investigation would be over soon. because they were trying to manage their client. the president. and it blew up in their face because it wasn't over soon. and the president is not happy about that. because the expectations were said in a different way. and perhap

we received a statement from ty cobb. he is the in-house counsel for the president. he addressed this topic. he said i've only been asked about pardons by the press and routinely responded on the record that no pardons are under destruction or under consideration at the white house. there was some question then left about whether this is something at any point that was discussed or considered and my colleague kristen welker focused on that when she spoke to sarah huckabee-sanders in this briefing. take a listen. >> ty cobb deals with the president so i want to ask you specifically, did the president direct john dowd to talk to the attorneys for paul manafort and michael flynn about potential pardons? >> i'm not aware of any conversations of that nature at all. >> did the president have a reaction to these revelations in "the new york times"? did you ask him specifically. >> i did not talk to him about it specifically. but again i've an bn in a num-- in a number of conversations and ty cobb who would be the lead representative for the white house has gone on the recor

ty cobb is a white house lawyer managing the white house's defense and defending the presidency as an office. as opposed to the president as a person. this is not a ted olson, it's not a big name experienced washington litigator. perhaps president trump has developed some chemistry with him, perhaps he can help the president manage his relationship that is ongoing today. >> i know how much lawyers love to comment on other lawyers, your comment on this development? >> i don't know the gentleman there was a reference in the press that there may be a handful of other lawyers assisting mr. sekulow. i suspect that's the case. he may have been there for some time and he's circulated to a more prominent role. i don't know that i know what to say about his expertise in the dark ages, maybe as a historian that would be helpful to him too. >> what kind of lawyer does this president need, and what do all of these lawyers who have said no seem to know? >> press reports would give lawyers who are considering this some significant pause in working for him. after all that we hear, he doesn't like to

>> i can say that ty cobb is the person that would be most directly involved in this, and he's got a statement on the record saying that there's no discussion and there's no consideration of those at this time in the white house. >> did the president direct john dowd to talk to the attorney for paul manafort and michael flynn about potential pardons? >> i'm not aware of any conversations of that nature at all. >> there was one reaction from someone close to the white house that bears noting. george conway, husband of trump counselor kellyanne conway, fired this off. it reads "this is flabbergasting." for more we turn to our leadoff panel on a wednesday night. formidable panel they are. michael schmidt, "new york times" washington correspondent. his name among those five byline on this the "times" report we just mentioned. we welcome to our broadcast carol leonnig, political investigations reporter for "the washington post" and pulitzer prize winner. hers was among "the washington post" bylines today. michael and carol, both msnbc contributors. for good measure also with us is jeremy

cobb rejected criticism that he has misled the president about the length of the probe, predicting int that it would be over by thanksgiving. quote, the reality is that i never actually said that it would be over soon. i said it could be over soon. it got baked into the narrative that i was somehow trying to apiece the president and that's just not true. i had hoped we could have gotten the document production done earlier, but i didn't have the staff or the support internally in the white house initially to get that done. and he goes on. and mueller fully understood that and he's my audience, not anybody else. and i needed him to understand that i was working as hard as i could with whatever i had to meet his deadline. so mission accomplished as far as i'm concerned. >>> and white house communications directions hope hicks has wrapped up her final day in the west wing. yesterday trump marked the occasion by bringing her out to the rose garden to see the press. the president said good-bye to his long time aide before departing to ohio. hicks announced her departure back in february. >

ty cobb of course has been known to go off in e-mails on reporters, myself included.ow we have john dowd who kind of issued this statement to the daily beast, at first saying he was speaking on behalf of the president and then saying that he was only speaking for himself. and ty cobb, of course, would not comment on the record to me, i think it is safe to say this is not something he anticipated and something he had actually consulted with the other lawyers about. so, whether or not -- i think that jonathan was right when he said that perhaps all of this is kind of just trump watching tv. and perhaps john dowd filling his mind a little bit with, you know, negative thoughts about the special counsel. but it doesn't seem like anything entirely kind of planned at this point. >> john? >> it's also worth pointing out, john dowd, to give viewers a sense, this is a guy who writes his e-mails in purple comic sense. he quoted cat on the hot tin roof from tennessee williams. >> which you pointed out was on turner classic movies last night. >> reference this part of the scene eq

>> i can say that ty cobb is the person that would be most directly involved in this. he's got his statement on the record saying that there's no discussion and there is no consideration of those at this time for the white house. >> the lawyer for porn star stormy daniels has been seeking for a judge to declare that his client is not bound by the terms of a non-disclosure agreement about her interactions with president trump, since donald trump didn't sign the document. the attorney representing the president attorney's michael cohen, but not on this matter, said the president had no idea about the agreement or others that cohen arranged. >> michael cohen signed the deal. donald trump didn't. you are claiming that michael cohen, the president's fixer, ray donovan character, never, ever told donald trump about it. >> never told him. >> michael cohen dispensed $130,000 of his own money and never sought reimbursement from donald trump? >> 100%. >> come on. no one believes that. >> it is rare to see one tech titan go after another in public. >> this morning, apple's ceo ti

ty cobb who sarah sanders mentioned today is actually a white house lawyer playing a slightly differentole, managing the white house's response in defending the presidency as an office. as opposed to the president as a person. this is not a ted olson, it's not a big-name experienced washington litigator. perhaps president trump has developed some chemistry with him, perhaps he can help the president manage his relationship and negotiations that are ongoing today with robert mueller. >> counselor, i know how much lawyers love to comment on other lawyers. your comment on this development? >> i don't know the gentleman. there was a reference in the press that there may be a handful of other lawyers assisting mr. sekulow. i suspect that's the case. he may have been there for some time and he's surfaced to a more prominent role because dowd has left and perhaps others have left. i don't know that i know what to say about his expertise in the dark ages, maybe as a historian that would be helpful to him too. >> bob, in your professional opinion, what kind of lawyer does this president need? an

the trump legal team, es special he at a time when there are other attorneys like john dowd and ty cobbutures on the team are a little uncertain. dave and christine. >> abby phillip, tluch for that. >>> joining us is paul callan and former republican chairman of the house intelligence committee mike rogers. good to see you. paul, let's start with you, this new addition, he nailed his audition on fox news, a flame thrower when it comes to lawyers. what does this tell you about the direction of the trump legal approach? >> i think it's a shocking development. on the one hand, you have his current -- the president's current lawyers cooperating with mueller, maybe scoping out allowing the president to give testimony but digenova says there's a deep state conspiracy to get trump, the fbi is part of the conspiracy, the department of justice is part of the conspiracy. he's gone so far as saying there should be a federal grand jury investigating the fbi and the department of justice. i think this will cause a mixed messaging situation. you have one lawyer aggressively attacking the investigator

cobb told cnn what he told the new york dhi"new york times" wh told the story, i've routinely respond that had no pardons are under discussion or under consideration at the white house. >> i would refer you back to the statement from ty cobb. as i am, an on record sfratatem on these matters has said, there's no discussion or consideration of this. >> reporter: the president didn't close the door on the idea of pardons. >> we'll see what happens. let's see. i can say this. when you look at what's gone on with the fbi and with the justice department, people are very, very angry. >> reporter: the white house also didn't want to address the latest from stormy daniels. whether the president would comply with the request from the porn star's attorney to sit down for a deposition in the case. >> we have addressed this once again extensively. and we have nothing new to add. for any new questions, i would refer you to the president's attorney. i'm not going to get into a i'm athletic cal question. >> sanders refused to say whether the president knew that his personal attorney attempted to pay

i am very happy with my lawyers, ty cobb, john dowd and jay sekulow.hey are doing a great job, and, dot, dot, dot. there was a second frame to that tweet, but you get the gist. jeremy, it did strike a lot of us that digeneva was very much like cobb and dowd. what do you think is going on to herald these personal decisions? >> what you have is a president that is increasingly emboldened and trusting his own instincts rather than the people around him. there is no question this is occurring when you have the departures of a number of staff members who felt that they could keep the president's more reckless impulses in check. and the addition of more advisers, both formal and informal, around the president who will enable some of his more reckless impulses. it's coinciding with people like corwin lewandowski and david bossi, some people from the campaign having more access to the president. and it's coming at a time when the president is feeling increasingly under siege. he was told by his lawyers, and this is part of the reason why he's so unhappy with t