. >> kember le, in terms of how they're dealing, adam schiff said today, giuliani admitted to seeking power. again. back to the issue of normalization, things becoming standard procedure, it becomes harder, i would say, for congress to may hay or deal with these things when it becomes so normalized. >> and that's exactly what rudy giuliani is trying to do. i think the point can be made that this argument is illegal. it is a violation technically of campaign finance rules. but yeah, without an explicit it is illegal to talk to foreign governments and allow them to interfere with election. it is a harder case to make. but remember where giuliani and everyone is meddling. we talked about russian toes try to get dirt on hillary clinton. it's good to talk to russians. we're proud to talk to russians. so it's good to talk to folks in the ukraine. they need to get involved in this. they have moved the goal post of not just what is legal, but what is tolerable. it's remarkable to see giuliani say, he doesn't want to be trapped? trapped by what? trapped by laws? trapped by constitutional consi