never with nsa. so i just want to make sure that you know that there's many of us out there who do support you and do so without shame. however, when we look at the whole picture i know it's all about balance, isn't it? national security, our threat versus the privacy of individuals versus some of the other things we've got to balance. i wanted to start with you, ms , morgan. to clarify for the audience that's watching at home perhaps. we get a letter from your agency that says nsa has suspended the call detail records program. call details record. this decision was made after balancing the intelligence values, associated cost and compliance. if we've suspended it, you keep saying you need the tool in your toolbox. obviously, in my toolbox if i have a broken hammer i just throw it out. why is it you suspended it and now you think you need it? i know you said that emphat emphatically as a professional you thought you needed it. i want to be clear as to why we really do need it. >> thank you for your q

nsa? >> not to my knowledge. >> okay. >> has doj ever notified a criminal defendant that his information was obtained through a 215 order? >> no. it's not required by law. there's no provision for that. >> and then why are the number of accounts so substantial given the number of targets in in 2018 they collected information and the unique accounts and they had only 60 surveillance targets. >> sir, just to clarify, i assume you're referring to the numbers for the nsacdr? >> yes. >> okay, sir. so i think two things are important when you think about those numbers. one is putting those numbers into context. so every day in the united states there are billions was telephone calls made a day which can generate multiple records and we had 500 million over the course of a year. the other thing i would want to highlight is that when we get data, when we were getting data under the program that's now suspended, we were authorized to get historical date that that the telecommunication providers hel

simply put the nsa dismantled the program because it was a serious failure.riousto col nsa used it to collect hundreds of millions of phone records.dse in 2018, it discovered that it i had no authority to collect some of the records it was receivingo worse, it had no way of ds separating out which records were wrongly acquired from the ones that were collected w lawfully. so it started deleting them allm this has all been publicly reported by the intelligence community. to be clear, it is not a bad is thing that the nsa identified aa problem, told us about it and tried to fix it.tr ied to fix it. it is a it is also fine that they decided the program was not worth running. as former director coats put it, the decision to end the program was made after balancing its, quote, relative intelligence value, unquote, which was evidently minimal against, quote, compliance and data integrity concerns, closed quote. the nsa decided that the cost outweighed the benefits and it pulled the plug. that kind of candor should be applauded. it's baffling to me the administration announced they shuttered

has the nsa actually stopped the program? this time, if you can answer both of those and finally, to mr. orlando, if you can know where we are with respect to foreign operatives, e plain the value of fiegsa in your work, but also the necessity of some form of that with respect to domestic terrorism. miss morgan? >> thank you, ma'am. i'll start with your second question. the cdr program has been -- has been stopped. last month all of the equipment was decommissioned. we are not leveraging the cdr authority and have currently no plans to leverage it. in terms of the technical irregularities that we experienced, we got stl things at this date in time for this duration but some of that inaccurate and as suchas such, we determine best course of action was to delete the records that we received from the community providers. >> the gentle lady is expired ecand the witness may answer the question. >> whether you need an expansion order a characterization. >> i understand thata. and was saying you need is somee similar comparable. >>

you are at an nsa desk working on an nsa system, taking direrection from an n nsa govert supervisor working on government processes, but formally, orally, you work for dell lockheed martin or booz allen hamilton, or any one of these really thousands and thousands of private c companies that have become really extensions of government. this is one of the things that the book goes into detail that people really aren't t quite famililiar with. a significant amount,t, potentntially a smll majororityf the most important work inin government come in intelligence, is today performed by contractors, not government employees. this is because in the actual contracting language, there are very committed very few tasks that contractors are legally forbidden from doing. it is s sically ththe only thing contractors can't do is press the red button that fires a missile. a contractor is not supposed to actually commit a crime, something the government could do and it would not be a c crim. else -- building the system of mass surveillance, installing it, applying it, using it to gather or search through all

nsa has long participanted in something called common criteria.hat will accept that product and then sell to multiple countries. then clearly the private sector 37 there's unique incite. like control systems. the private sector is often the first indicator of a significant threat or a significant compromise. so clearly working closely with the private sector and the unclassified mission is the big focus we speak to achieve. >> so the theme of the conference today is a call to action. when it comes to protecting our country, the nation. protecting our enterprises, protecting people, it's clearly one of the reasons we're all here. it's one of the driving forces behind the new cybersecurity directorate. if you would wave a manlic wand as we think about a call to action, what is one immediate thing that you would want to see done? what's one midterm thing and as much as i don't like the term moon shoot -- to be a call to action that you would ask for? >> i'm afraid moon shot's probably hard because of the diversity. but i would say this. first cyberse

i worked in an nsa facility. i had an nsa boss. i was working at nsa systems and doing nsa tasks.lly, just on paper, i worked for a private company. these contractors weren't protected by whistleblower protection laws. if i had tried to talk to a priest, a judge, a congressman, it would have been a felony. if i talked to my family, it would have been a felony. and if i talked to a journalist, they consider telling the truth about the government breaking the law, is, itself, a crime. i couldn't tell anyone. i couldn't tell the love of my life, who is a central figure in the story, lindsay mills, my long-time partner, because if i had, the fbi could have charged her as a part of the conspiracy. they could have charged her as the accessory to the crime, so long as she didn't immediately after hearing from me, i'm considering talking to journalists pick up the phone and say, someone's going to talk to the press. it made it an isolating experience. >> your former employer, the nsa, said they couldn't comment on your book because of the ongoing investigation. they gave us the following

amy: nsa whistleblower edward snowden for the hour. all that and more, coming up. welcome to democracy now!, democracynow.org, the war and peace report. i'm amy goodman. house democrats moved rapidly forward with the impeachment inquiry into president trump after the white house released a wednesday rough transcript of a phone call showing the u.s. president repeatedly p pressured ukraine's leader to launch a corruption probe into trump cacampaign rival joe biden. in the five-page transcript, dated july 25, president trump alludes to $400 million in military aid to ukraine that he had ordered cut off just days prior to the phone call, before telling ukrainian president volodymyr zelensky "the united states has been very, very good to ukraine. i wouldn't say that it's reciprocal necessarily. " president zelensky responds by praising past u.s. aid to ukraine, saying he's interested in purchasing more javelin anti-tank missiles, which ukraine has used in its fight against russian-backed separatists. trump responds, "i would like you to do us a favor though." he goes o

essentially the nsa part was to use the metadata program and determine who else in if the u.s.elp the fbi understand who are the key terrorists they have to go after? two of the key figures in this investigation were these gentlemen. two of his very close friends that he met in high school. they went to the mosque together. and they got jobs in new york. zazi had had the coffee cart. zarine was driving a cab. and adis was a doorman. they continued to hang out. they remain frindz. >> looking at the flight manifest, we concluded that in august of 2008, before he came to colorado, zazi traveled with adis to the fatah region of pakistan. the federally administered areas of pakistan. >> we thought at the time he had gone to a terrorist training camp. to receive terrorist training, bomb making. these are all the real critical pieces of information that we needed to know the magnitude of this threat. and this has gone from a highly probable to an emergency case. you join the fbi because you want to get in the fight. you want to take bad guys off the street. i never had anything like.

i worked in the nsa facility. i had an nsa boss.paper i worked for a private company. these contractors weren't covered by whistle blower protection laws, but i tried to talk to, you know, a judge, a priest, a congressman. it would have been the same felony if i had talked to my family. it would have been the same felony. if i talked to a journalist, they consider telling the truth about the government breaking the law is itself a crime. i couldn't tell anyone. i couldn't tell the love of my life, who is the central figure in the story, lindsey mills, my long-time partner, because if i had, the fbi could have charged her as a part of a conspiracy. they could have charged her as kind of an accessory to the crime so long as she didn't immediately after hearing from me i'm thinking about talking to journalists picked up the phone and said help, help, somebody's going to talk to the press. that made it a very isolating experience. >> edward, your former employer the nsa said they couldn't comment on your book because of the ongoing inve

to tapping internet cables and switches, nsa programs were breaking and entering, spying then lying,den's crimes minuscule by comparison. could no longer be met with we're protects you from bad guy's propaganda, we entered to 6 years of on going discussion about mass surveillance and role of the scope of government. to the 2016 campaign spying from the fbi to the doj, we needed these changes, that would be impossible without the snowden revelation. he wants a fair and open trial but will be prosecute the opaquely. the tone has been set by secretary of state, and president. who have in past, respectively called for his death september 11 ansense --sentence and execud debate whether snowden is a trader. privacy tools have exploded, as a result, there is still an unhealthy abuse of power, that is an on going magnet for corruption, let a jury of snowden peers decide his fate. he will then be joined in jail by deep state power hoarders, who are too eager to make and exploit loopholes to make us more vulnerable, that is the memo. ♪ kennedy: snowden admitted to cbs this week that it is not

snowden told you that he never told his girlfriend when he was at the nsa what was happening.ot even the day that he left. do you believe him? martin: yeah, i believe him. he had a good explanation. he said if he would have told her, she would have been -- had the duty to inform the police. he wanted to avoid the situation, that she got criminalized through him. it is really hard, if you believe that. you can't tell your girlfriend what is going on with you. brent: when something that is going to change your life forever, that is an incredible story. it is good to have you on the show. we appreciate you sharing your insights about edward snowden. thank you. martin: thank you for having me. brent: you are watching dw news live from berlin. after a short break, i will back -- i will be back to take you through "the day." stick around for that. [captioning performed by the national captioning institute, which is responsible for its caption content and accuracy. visit ncicap.org] the best thing you can take to any tape. yeah but it's too slow to life in paparis w world news and a

is working with the cyber security director at the nsa.s working with karen evans at the department of energy. alone we will fail and together we will succeed. and that is the ethos of the agency. the second piece we have to be results driven. we have to focus on a demand signal and identify the requirements that we are seeking to achieve. we do not do that alone that goes back to that collaborative . >> we have to work with stakeholders to identify precisely what they need address. the risk they need managed to build those coalitions. we are said to do it in a way that is a scalable. i'm going to talk a little bit about elections and election security that is probably one of the most challenging engagements or disciplines i've ever had to engage in because it's such a vast landscape. 8800 jurisdictions voting jurisdictions in the united states. how do we scale we cannot reach out and touch each and every one on a daily basis we have to have capabilities that hit risk management outcomes. it's identifying the risk and engaging in ways that

the second acting nsa in president trump's office.resident trump saidly will be meeting his fourth national security adviser next week. the list includes rick waddell who served as deputy nsa previously in the administration but left soon after bolton came on board. keith kellogg who was trump's first acting nsa after mike flynn was fired and who was a national security adviser to vice president mike pence. and tom bossert who was the homeland security adviser in the first half of the administration but stepped down and brian hook the u.s. special enjoy for iran. senator lindsey graham said that trump has told him that waddell and kellogg and hook are top contenders back in 2018, macron asked trump who is brian hook after he praised him on iran. and then to pay several millions to the an iranian tanker. >>> there's been a ton of reaction on capitol hill to john bolton's departure. nancy pelo nancy pelosi has tweeted. and chuck schumer said it is just the latest example of government by chaos approach. when ambassador bolton's extreme

is working with the cyber security director at the nsa.s working with karen evans at the department of energy. alone we will fail and together we will succeed. and that is the ethos of the agency. the second piece we have to be results driven. we have to focus on a demand signal and identify the requirements that we are seeking to achieve. we do not do that alone that goes back to that collaborative . >> we have to work with stakeholders to identify precisely what they need address. the risk they need managed to build those coalitions. we are said to do it in a way that is a scalable. i'm going to talk a little bit about elections and election security that is probably one of the most challenging engagements or disciplines i've ever had to engage in because it's such a vast landscape. 8800 jurisdictions voting jurisdictions in the united states. how do we scale we cannot reach out and touch each and every one on a daily basis we have to have capabilities that hit risk management outcomes. it's identifying the risk and engaging in ways that

and the nsa.also signed agreements that require him to submit his book for review before published. cording to the lawsuit. the jtice department is seeking the proceeds snowden tceives from tha book >>> let's take a ve look in gaithersburg. look at the sun up and out and a liit cooler, 78 rothdes trackin 24/7 forecast after this fox 5 breakthrough. ♪. ♪ . w yld>>> cool off. >>> yes, i know. feels nice foutside. eels a lot better. >>> tomorrow, actually, we'll be beautiful the next few days. >> we deserve abreak. >> it's nice weather, we'll call it beautiful days aad this forecast is wonderful. it is going to get warmer by the weekend but tomorrow, thursday, around here, enjoy reit.tellar 78 deg in the district right now.e battled the cloud cover most of the day. it's starting to recede and as we clear out. temperatures will be very cool. 61 inwashington, but a lot of 50's in the suburb, so a real refreshing beginning to your wednesday. high pressure overhead sunshine all day lo, it will be dry,t w

he was a federal contractor, work for the nsa -- worked for the nsa. he determined the best way to get the information out that he wanted to disclose was not to go through this process, but to go to the media, and we all know his story about fleeing to hong kong and eventually to russia. that this is ais difficult question for it is notwers and something that i would advise anyone to do, because it is breaking the law and there are stiff penalties. there have been a number of prosecutions of people under the espionage act and other laws relating to classified information. there were a string of espionage act prosecutions, one of the most recent the reality winner case where she pled guilty to leaking one document to the intercept. she has a five year prison sentence that she is serving. the case that those who have done that have made is that the system doesn't work, the system doesn't allow people to get to congress. when p -- when we were in discussion with the -- discussion with the obama administration and the bush administration to reform laws, on

from cyber com's perspective, nsa is its most important parter in -- partner. all of us on the stage have different responsibilities and different authorities. the idea is bringing all of that together. we are not operating, we are not ceding space to the adversary. i am not necessarily crawling through a partner's network. the partner is actually sharing. i'm sharing with them to enable them to defend better, to doe detective, verify, to share back with me. >> i wasn't suggesting you were in a partners network, i was suggesting you were in an adversary's network. >> as we should be. >> come out of a 2016 experience, what i was struck in doing the reporting on the book was the number of people in cyber command, nsa, certainly at dhd and fbi who were saying the reason we were taken by despise want because we had radars off, it wasn't a pearl harbor kind of situation it was that we hadn't built the radar to be able the actually it. as now you have been through the experience of the midterm elections where i think john bolton at the white house and director nakaso

the most, we don't know what happened to the anthony weiner for crying out loud, we don't know what nsaill not provide us, the investigators in the justice department with copies of the so-called missing e-mails because that's what it is, because those are retained by the nsa. >> absolutely nothing is more important than going back and getting to the bottom of the origins of the investigation in the first place. as you could've said from the very beginning, what we had here, you had administration, these of the fact that we no, and a ministration using american spying apparatus despite of political opponents at the height of a presidential election, those are all known, undisputed facts and that should terrify every american regardless of what your political stripe is, and the idea that all of the information has not been revealed, shows two things, how these people are. and also how terrified they are of what is going to happen when the information desk amount. lou: it seems every reason to be very concerned about the republican party. there is not enough energy within the republican p

i came forward not to burn the nsa down. came forward to reform it, to help it return to the ideals that we're all supposed to share. there will never be a question of when my government is ready, when my government wants me to help, i will be there. >> ed snowden, thank you very much, good luck with the book. >> it's my pleasure, thank you for having me. >> ed snowden, author of the book, "permanent record" goes on sale tomorrow. final note, we're back after this. >>> real quick before we go, without edits for time or television, we have put the entire interview on the web with edward snowden at msnbc.com/11, also tonight we have made it available for download as a special edition podcast separate and apart from the podcast of tonight's tv broadcast. it's available for download now and with that, that is our broadcast for this monday night as we start a new week. thank you for being here with us. good night from our nbc news headquarters here in new york. >>> who do you like more, the country or the hispanics? he says the c

i came forward not to burn the nsa down. came forward to reform it, to help it return to the ideals that we're all supposed to share. so, there will be never be a question of when my government is ready, when my government wants me to help, i will be there. >> ed snowden, thank you very much. good luck with the book. >> my pleasure, brian, thank you for having me. >> edward snowden, the author of the new book called "permanent record." it goes on sale tomorrow. a final break. we're back after this. still fresh... ♪ unstopables in-wash scent booster ♪ downy unstopables >>> real quick before we go. without edits for time of television, we put the entire interview on the web with edward snowden at msnbc.com/11. that's msnbc.com/11. also tonight, we've made it available as a special edition podcast, separate and apart of tonight's tv broadcast. it's available for download now. and with that, that is our broadcast for this monday night, as we start a new week. thank you for being here with us. good night from our nbc news headqua

william vinny and thomas drake were nsa officials who informed the inspector general about governmentrveillance programs they perceived as invading citizens' privacy by monitoring their internet activity. fbi agent colleen rawley flagged then fbi director robert mueller about intelligence failures before the 9/11 attacks. or sergeant joseph darby who told military investigators in 2004 about inmate abuse at the abu ghraib prison in iraq. not everyone who blew the whistle on the government has been rewarded. for some it meant the end of their careers. or even worse. >> willful, purposeful disclosure caused exceptionally grave damage to u.s. national security. >> reporter: former nsa contractor leaked a secret report about russian hacking of the 2016 election to a news organization and now is serving a sentence of more than five years after pleading guilty to leaking that classified information to the media. >> winter will serve a term of incarceration that will give pause to others who are entrusted with our country's sensitive national security information. >> the air force veteran's

i came forward not to burn the nsa down.ard to reform it, to help it return to the ideals that we're all supposed to share. so, there will be never be a question of when my government is ready, when my government wants me to help, i will be there. >> ed snowden, thank you very much. good luck with the book. >> my pleasure, brian, thank you for having me. >> edward snowden, the author of the new book called "permanent record." it goes on sale tomorrow. a final break. we're back after this. lowered their blood sugar and reached an a1c of less than 7 and maintained it. oh! under 7? (announcer) and you may lose weight. in the same one-year study, adults lost on average up to 12 pounds. oh! up to 12 pounds? (announcer) a two-year study showed that ozempic® does not increase the risk of major cardiovascular events like heart attack, stroke, or death. oh! no increased risk? (announcer) ozempic® should not be the first medicine for treating diabetes, or for people with type 1 diabetes or diabetic ketoacidosis. do not share needles o

william benny and thomas drake were nsa officials who informed the inspector general about government surveillance programs they perceived as invading citizens' privacy by monitoring their internet activity. fbi agent coleen rowley flagged then fbi director robert mueller about intelligence failures before the 9/11 attacks. or sergeant joseph darby who told military investigators in 2004 about inmate abuse at the abu ghraib prison in iraq. not everyone who blew the whistle on the government has been rewarded. for some, it meant the end of their careers or even worse. >> willful, purposeful disclosure caused exceptionally grave damage to u.s. national security. >> reporter: former nsa contractor, reality winner, leaked a secret report about russian hacking in the 2016 election to a news organization. now she's serving a sentence of fortune five years after pleading guilty to leaking that classified information to the media. >> winter will serve a term of incarceration that will give pause to others who are entrusted with our country's sensitive national security information. >> the air

we benefit from the nsa's equivalent. seeking political advantage by new high-tech means. we live in a business and corporate environment where chinese cyber attacks on our commercial interest is now something our companies treat business as usual. while we can welcome some mutually beneficial investment of china's burgeoning tech sector we have become increasingly aware we and our allies need our own trusted cape abilities. we face intrusions from iran and trying to steal weapons from north korea in a way they do digitally and never would do physically. these have been a constant over the past four years. we know more about them now than we did then and that helps us fight back. we also know more about the grave threat posted by high volume, low ubiquitous cybercrime. that, for me, is a threat we risk underestimating. these are people who attack wherever they think there is money to be made. people who rarely attack anything of strike national significance but i'mtively their attacks result -- coupumulative their attacks

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in close partnership with the nsa looking at the cyberthreat from foreign and with the fbi leading onhe foreign influence side as well. >> so each of the departments and agencies just like dhs has their own task force and strategy. you know in the counterterrorism world there is the national strategy and each agency has a supporting strategy. there a national strategy focused on election security and integrity? or is it just the individual agencies working together? >> you know, it's a good question. we -- in july we had the opportunity as a team, the dni, fbi director. general nack zone and myself and chris krebs briefed the house and senate. probably 70% of the senate showed up for the briefing. i think what emerge from the dialogue is we do have a coherent strategy. we met at the pc level as well. and everybody knows roles and there is information sharing cross the scenes. nsa and cybercommand articulated a clear strategy on detecting and ideally deterring cyberattempts to impact our elections. the fisher talked extensively about the foreign influence efforts. and really the dhs ro

we don't know why nsa won't provide us or the investigators and the justice department with copies ofo-called missing e-mails because that's what it is, so-called, because those are retained by the n is sa. nsa. >> and, of course, you know, absolutely nothing is more important than going back and getting to the bottom of the origins of the investigation in the first place. because as people, you know, you could have said from the very beginning what we had here was you had an administration -- these are the facts that we know, you had an administration using america's spying apparatus to spy on political opponents at the height of a presidential election. that, those are all known, undisputed facts. and that should terrify every american regardless of what your political stripe is. and the idea that all of that information hasn't already been revealed, i think, shows two things. one is how dastardly these people are. but also how terrified they are of what's going to happen when that information does come out. lou: and there is every, it seems to me, every reason to be very concerned

we in the tech sector were pushing the white house to put in place more checks and balances on the nsacame a moment in that meeting when president obama looked at us and said, "i have a suspicion the guns will turn." "you all in the tech sector have as much or more data "in the government, there will be a day when the demands "that you are trying to place on the government will be "placed on you." he was right. it was a prescient observation. so, if you're accepting the premise that, frankly, we should be sceptical about the state actors in the big tech companies, let me bring it back to the individual and all the people watching and listening to this interview. we all generate enormous — most of us now — enormous amounts of data. why can't we have ownership of that data and at least have a transparency as to what our data is being used for and by whom? well, i actually think that is something that is an important goal and it needs to be a reality around the world. so when? well, interestingly, for any country that is today in the european union, that is the law of the land. it became

saying he's in violation of non-disclosure agreements h w signedh the cia and nsa.ments requiring any materials for review. proceeds that snowden receives from thebo ok. >>> talk about unstoppable. american sarah thomas has become the first person to swim across the englishimhannel four tes nonstop. thomas completed the 84 mile swim this morning after ang whoppi 54 hours in that water. this w not just a feat o encorns, t mas is a breast cancer survivor. she was diagnosed less th two years ago. goal helpeving a her get through her treatment and she dedicated her marathon swim to t just starting their cancer journaly and also to theies like that that willhep push tm along. >> what greatmessage. >> and we are still days awayom the start of fall but look at niwhat's happe out on the west coast.s it iswing people.ay. the cold front sweep through sunday and monday leaving snow r in the highe elevations near the nev sa californiatate line. the california department of transportation urging drivers to be careful out on those roads. >> wow. >> we're complaining about 90 degr

missing e-mails because that's what it is, so-called because those are retained by the nsa. >> absolutely important than going back and getting to the bottom of the origins of thein investigation n the firstin place. you could have said from the very beginning what we had here was you had an administration using america's spying apparatus to spy on political opponents at the height of a presidential election. those are all known undisputed facts and that should terrify every american regardless of what your political stripe is and the idea that all of that information hasn't already been revealed i think shows two things. one is t how to dastardly these people are but also how terrified they are of what's going to happen when that information does come back. lou: it seems to me there's every reason to be concerned about the republican party because there isn't enough energy within the republican party itself, a line interest within the party. to this point actually stand up for this president, stand up for the american people it is as if they are so used to kowtowing to the chamber of com

after all, american empire consists of more than the department of defense and the nsa, cia, department of homeland security, all of these are part of the national security state. the dea isn't just enforcing a war on drugs at home. they are waging a war on drugs abroad throughout latin america and the world. the state department and usaid engage in foreign aid programs that large little serve pure till ambition% so the costs are higher than the number gave you, but whenever names we put on the cost of american empire, it's important to know that we're not just talking about the government spending dollars. when they spend the dollars they will looking for alternative uses. when metal is used to build a fighter jet, that's being taken away from tractors, forks and knives or anything else that you can make with that same. they might develop a number of consumer approximate or medical devices or capital goods that could increase productivity, so we just think of military spending as moving money around. we're giving up goods and services which could enhance our lives. is that cost worth i