perhaps just a little bit more open i mean the social credit system points to being more restrictive on the inside but. the prime minister said that he's willing to have more companies going in from the outside from abroad without having a joint venture partner as a prerequisite but he's also indicating that that's not going to be a huge wave and not being able to everyone but where needed so it's becoming a little bit more open but also more restrictive but you know my guess is that it's not going to make much difference in the company's interest in going to china it's such a huge part of their business it's become that and it's going to develop further you just quoted all the numbers pertaining for example to europe and part of part of the deal that markel is going to be selling there in beijing as a unit of the deutsche opposed to the world's largest logistics company the street street's future which makes little light transport vehicles electrically driven while they're going to do it with a joint venture in china with auto maker cherry i just can't imagine under this social cred

to risking all social credit rating in china by no precisely. this nation's most ambitious social engineering project since the call to revolution. innovation counts it's take time in berlin as the evil consumer electronics show opens its doors adams to the kingdom in the sky we take you to this auto place of good getting medical marijuana up the steep costs of doing business and leaving small promised time trying to. obtain physical and let's do business germany's leader wants to embark on a new phase in the european union's relations with china. while washington continues to hike tariffs on chinese products angela merkel is pushing for a european investment deal with beijing that she's bang heads together reprimanding the american and chinese on a trade war in 1st meeting with chinese premier beijing's great hall of the people metal said the dispute is affecting the whole world and hopes they'll resolve it soon lee didn't seem too focused on his country's problems with the u.s. but with germany telling the chancellor he hopes germany will accep

one of huge opportunities coupled with huge challenges one of the main worries is china's new social credit system as well as its own citizens but chinese government also evaluates companies using a point system and penalizes things it doesn't like german companies fear it's becoming a method of blanket surveillance and they say the system is neither clearly nor transparent deregulated. the internet is also a bone of contention foreign companies in china still have complete access to the world wide web but beijing plans to introduce laws to curtail potentially shutting down google or twitter in china turned the old problems with fair play and market access a still prevalent despite repeated promises of improvement german companies say they are still discriminated against in china the chances for major concessions in these areas have never been as good a trade war with the u.s. has china under pressure economic growth there was a direct order low in the 2nd quarter so there's a serious need for foreign investment. steve chang joins me he's the director of the s.o.s. china institute at the ye

about the social credit system. i think it's very interesting to look at how that discussion what's going on here in germany for example and what's going on with the discussion going on in china now specially if for example about the credit system and believe it or not many think it's actually a good thing because it used to look at the crime rates. and then people feel safe i'm not saying that it has a cost or i'm saying it's what a lot of chinese. people in general i think it's 50 is somehow more important than privacy because they also help people look at privacy is a very different if you look at the privacy issues through the chinese lens they somehow rather sacrifice their privacy in order to get convenience and also safety so i think from that point of view doesn't even look at it as a monitoring system so i think it's a quite interesting to just try to i think the chinese has a point of view and how easy it is actually for the chinese government to build up a system. well you're right that different comfort

and then there's the social credit system beijing's way of monitoring evaluating and analyzing citizens and businesses. german companies fear all encompassing surveillance. is china using to tell was here in methods to conduct trade. is china creating a. style system of controlling its own citizens. about the social credit system for example i think it's very interesting to look at how that discussion what's going on here in germany for example and what's going on with the discussion going on in china especially if for example about the credit system and believe it or not many think it's actually a good thing because you say look at the crime rates. and then people feel safe i'm not saying that it come as a cost or i'm saying it's what a lot of chinese. people in general i think it's 15 is somehow more important than privacy because they also help people look at privacy is a very different you feel look at the privacy issues through the chinese lens they somehow rather sacrifice their privacy in order to get convenience and also safety so i think from that point of view a lot of chinese

that there are different values right and we talked about the social credit system in china it may be acceptable for a good portion of the population and in many countries certainly in germany it would be totally unacceptable. so. what is trying to get contribute to global governance i think that is a big question and that's that's something that a lot of a lot of other countries are wondering you know what is the chinese model is it a model that can be. can be translated to on a global scale as as perhaps we saw after world war 2 with the united states and western europe. which always sort of marshall plan generation yeah yeah. i think there are big questions about whether this is the china model has has broader appeal. you know in beyond beyond china and so forth and jumping i think for example the fish and see if that come come has a value cut it has the advantage sure what the fishes that chinese i'm going on the table mr jevons are proud of their patients who say waiting for someone feels and that also for them they get we always have that stereotype the chinese the cane rice som

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china companies that use the social credit system and the government, say the social credit system improveshavior. but critics say that the government can use the socialto credit systearget and penalize anyone who criticizes ine communist party. hinain ionex hpokortg ing a systemf survllance so when they demonstrate, they climb up ladders and try and cover up theameras. and protestors also cover up their faces. this 21-year-old and her friends declined to give their names, for fear china would punish them. >> although i'm wearing a mask, >> reporter: and protesters fear surveillance goes om cameras, to inside their phones. they organize these rallies offline, because they believe police hacked into their messaging apps. >> ( translated ): we are super >> reporter: protestors' fears are accurate, says zhang lifan,t a longanding critic of the government he was willing to sit for an interview, but refused to be seen with us in public. h met us in our hotel room. are you, as a constant critic of the government, underof surveillance? >> ( translated ): of course. we can feel this surveillance al

closer ties between berlin and beijing is that the right approach also coming up risking your social credit rating in china by not recycling to communist governments most ambitious social engineering project since the cultural revolution. welcome to the program germany's leader wants a bark on a new phase in the european union's relations with china. while washington continues to hike tariffs on chinese products i'm glad mantle is pushing for a european investment deal with beijing not only that she's banging the heads together reprimanding the unit u.s. and chinese for their trade war in 1st meeting with chinese premier li keqiang at beijing's great hall of the people whose mega said the dispute is affecting the whole world and hopes that both sides will resolve it soon mr lee didn't seem to focus on his country's problems with the u.s. but rather with germany telling the chancellor he hopes germany will accept more chinese companies and loosen export rules for certain goods he went on to say once again that china promises to open up its economy even more. china is becoming an ever more im

as more details emerge about china's social credit system, there are questions over what that will mean will mean for foreign companies operating there. they recently said their system for assessing the creditworthiness of individuals will be expanded to include 33 million companies. earlier i asked samantha hoffman from the australian strategic policy institute why businesses are coming under this. it's always meant to include companies like civil society organisations and people. the reason it includes companies is because the chinese communist party wants to shape how they are acting. that could include things like normal regulation and enforcement of normal regulation and enforcement of normal regulation and enforcement of normal regulation and imposing china's versions of the truth on companies. last year they were told they had to change the way they referred to iwan on their websites and if they didn't it would have been marked. is this quite different in your view to how the us has the credit ratings systems ? the us has the credit ratings systems? it's very different and it goe

he said look if you don't keep china boxed in and check them, they will expand their social credit system. can you imagine what societies would be like when you're under this constant surveillance. they have already exported it via zte another chinese company down to venezuela where they are implementing the social credit system down there. i mean, we cannot allow a nation like this with the kind of values it has to be able to expand. you are right lou, 600 billion dollars a year in intellectual property theft, that robs americans of jobs. it robs americans of opportunities. they are trying to steal a lot of the technologies as it relates to 5g because they know that will be the network of networks. everybody will want to go to those things. it is going to be, you know, it is going to be the centerpiece of our new technologies. quantum computing, artificial intelligence, i mean the list -- it is not just about 5g. it is about all of these things and president trump gets that. he's trying to put policies in place to address it all. lou: and this president has as you put it he's gotten it f

lots of commitment and they don't have really much time for themselves and so they are under high social credit to the cope psychological pressure yeah so you see a lot of affected people so what's the main problem. relatives have problems in dealing with the change in behavior off the pace. because this happens when the mentor progresses right so when you feel some memory loss there's a big question is it just a mild forgetfulness or is it also has to cease. and don't seem quite harmless at 1st dabble village golf began to experience memory problems a little later she was diagnosed with early stage alzheimer's i'm trying in the beginning i was often very sad and down. but then i realized well it has to happen at some point and life has to go on you can't change that it is what it is. that was 18 months ago the 70 year old can't always find the right words or remember what she wants to buy when she's out shopping but fine and large she still manages to get by. sometimes i have problems with my friends for example or forgetting things that happen sometimes. but nothing really bad i don't forget

in the form of censorship, domestic disinformation and the social credit system. but increasingly we are seeing it exported on a global scale. third, on the economic front, president xi has pursued two economic strategies aimed at displaysing the united states position of economic leadership. to the china 2025 plan xi has focused on developing domestic chinese capabilities in strategic industries of the future. at the same time, the prc is working to expand chinese exports globally to existing customers as well as the developing world. president xi is making a play for dominance in areas like 5g, ai, quantum computing. robotics. and increasingly biotech. in addition china to employing the full power of the state to build the infrastructure and here is something ditch -- set the standards for new technologies like 5g wireless. actually adopting tactics the united states used for much of the 20th century. but unlike the u.s. mcis trying to set the standards to promote its own interests. rather than the notions of any sort of fair competition. at the same time, china

look here you jaywalk once and right away your social credit score drops.this degree of surveillance is unthinkable in the west but here in china they take a different view and say it's driven a drop in crime. that's what does it say here mail it to you without glasses you don't. you yes yes suddenly you're a youth i don't know if you know me i love chinese facial recognition. you. are. a transparent society in the interest of efficiency. some of this appears useful but do we really want to measure control and analyze everything just because it's technically possible. won't that inevitably lead us down a road to down a dictatorship. maybe trust is better than smart control. silicon valley a synonym for innovation and unlimited freedom. the biggest players in the field of ai are based here. but their headquarters are hidden behind in conspicuous low rise buildings. facebook we use their services in trust them with our data but the company is impervious to the public. a selfie at the entrance gate is just about tolerated. next door at apple the visitor center

one talks about business investment in china and what beijing is going to be doing is taking its social credit system and extending it to corporate including foreign corporate. it is a nationwide program that reads every individual. they get a score that is constantly updated based upon observable behavior so if you jaywalk, your score is going to go down and if you see something, your score is going to go up. they are doing this for companies and they are going to extend to companies. we saw what they would do to a company when it has the power to do so and that was cathay pacific in connection with the protest. it now has a new chairman and chief executive officer and they are now 200 vacancies that have been newly created. beijing tried to purge the airline of those that have protested or that protected protesters, so for instance, the ceo refused to cooperate and turn over a list of employees who have protested so this is what beijing is going to do once it has the ability. it's a question of disengagement. we would love to have american companies involved making money in china but you can

are talking about continuing to strengthen the role of state owned enterprises or applying the social credit system to companies, all of that is about enhancing the role and the ability of xi jinping and the chinese party to use companies as tools of the state. economic actors as political actors. points peoplekey should realize is xi jinping, despite the fact he was governor , he is understanding of how the market economy operates is superficial and minimal. lifes lived his entire under a planned economy. all of his food, housing, everything is arranged by the chinese government. i do not think he actually knows how the real market operates, especially not the financial market, which is another level of difficulty. a lot of high-level policymakers in china struggle with this limitation. >> thank you. companies asusing tools of the state is a very important thing. if i have a second round opportunity, i want to delve into that. >> thank you. as always, when we are talking about the economy, i spend a lot of time learning as opposed to questioning but i do have a couple of things that came to

the other thing i wrote about, tucker, is that you see the silicon valley companies roll out social creditcores like communist china is doing. i remind people, the tech companies and corporations are rolling out these credit scores because they're deciding what is right and wrong, creating their own moral code, then they roll out the credit scores to manipulate behavior to achieve the desired lineup with the world view, with their system. i forgot when we had the conversation, decided that our republic was going to be ruled by leftist organizations create agony constitution and new bill of rights. if we're not careful we are headed toward a tech oligarchy. >> tucker: that's exactly where we're going, at high speed. california is virtually there. what i'm spiced by, and you touched on this in your piece, how passive our political class has been in the face of this. the people we elect have in fact collaborated it seems with google. why? >> well, i'm i've starting them tech collaborators. you look at 2018, they spent $64 million lobbying in washington, d.c. alone. if you go back to 2005 they

basically give over information to the chinese government or you're going to be subjected to the social credit system or you're going to be living in a situation where your employees can be detained without any rule of law at whim, i think what i've noticed over the past few years is just the eating away of private and public that's broadly happening in china is also now being applied to multinationals, and i think that is a big challenge that american companies are going to have to confront moving forward. >> i think you both raise issues or they've come up also earlier sort of about the vulnerability of the u.s., or some of the judgment. the u.s. companies are now so deeply embedded in china they don't really have any choices in terms of having to deal with their employees being arrested and so on. i think earlier maybe mr. polk you made the choice about supply chains. these are investment decisions that have been made in the past that we're now reckoning with. one question for us for the commission going forward is just to think a little bit more about, you know, should we have foreseen som

how long before social credit scores come to hear, to america, as this country becomes more tightly ruled by technology and a fascist cryptography behind it our democracy is almost a sham. the industry is tightly woven within our military-industrial complex that lobbies generously and extensively with other shenanigans to extend his multitrillion dollar empire. its passed is cleared lee spelled out in a brief that was dismissed by verizon. they didn't want their ugliness spelled out so clearly so they shushed it. they shift it with intimidation, fears of litigation, actual integration and lies. the frequency was developed by the military for crowd control. officially called the active denial system, egg can be turned onto cause irreparable physical harm. soon there will be an exodus from san francisco to counties and towns that have banned residential 5g. cities come and cities go, empires fall. could this be the beginning of the end of western civilization? a compromised, sick population does not lead to a cohesive society or dynamic economic growth. commissioners, i believe you fear lit

we see how these same technologies are being applied to create what they call the social credit systemif any of these family photos, any of your activities online, your purchases, if your associations, if your friends are in any way different from what the government or the powers that be of the moment would like them to be, you're no longer able to purchase train tickets. you're no longer able to board an airplane. you may not be able to get a passport. you may not be eligible for a job. you might not be able to work for the government. all of these things are increasingly being created and programmed and decided by algorithms and those algorithms are fueled by precisely the instant data that our devices are creating all of the time, constantly, invisibly, quietly, right now. our devices are casting all of these records that we do not see being created that in aggregate seem very innocent. you were at starbucks at this time. you went to the hospital afterwards. you spent a long time at the hospital. after you left the hospital, you made a phone call. you made a phone call to your moth

it was padu, work where the communist party is trying to use their tech companies to create a social creditthat monitors citizens of china, surveillance state that would make orwell 1984 look like children's play, and some of the companies who i think their founders sometimes make grandiose statements about good they want to do, that rhetoric needs to match reality, particularly when you partner with china trying to use technology to create a surveillance state, and frankly taking that surveillance state and trying to export it now to other countries around the world. so i do think they need to be held accountable. >> senator, just to shift gears here on a day when huawei is unveiling a 5g flagship phone without google licensed apps, officials from the u.s. and china rekindling trade talks, what do you think that relationship long term should look like between huawei and both the u.s. government and u.s. tech companies? >> well, this is -- let's step back a second. we were kind of of, we, the government and for that matter american tech companies were caught off guard with the ascent of hua

this notion to bear on its people in the form of censorship, domestic disinformation, and the social credit system. but increasingly, we are seeing it exported on the global scale. third, on the economic front, resident xi jinping has pursued two economic strategies aimed at displacing the united states'position of economic leadership. the china 2025 plan -- through the plan, he is focused on developing domestic chinese capabilities in a strategic industries of the future at the same time the prc is working to expand chinese exports globally to existing customers as well as the developing world. president xi is making a play for dominance in areas like 5g, a.i., quantum computing, robotics, and increasingly, even biotech. in addition, china is employing the full power of the state to build infrastructure -- and here is what they are doing something different -- and actually set the standards for new technologies by 5g wireless. actually adopting tactics that the united states used for much of the 20th century. but unlike the u.s., china is trying to set standards to promote its own interest

acyclic get over information to the chinese government, or you're going to be subjected to the social credit system, or you're going to be living in a situation where your employees can be detained without any rule of law at whim. i think what i've noticed over the past few years just eating away of private and public that's broadly happening in china. it's also being applied to multinationals and they think that is a big challenge that american companies are going to have to confront moving forward. [inaudible] >> i think you both raised issues or have, also earlier about the vulnerability of the u.s. or some of judgment, that the u.s. companies are now so deeply embedded in china so they don't have any choices in terms of having to deal with their employees being arrested and so on. earlier maybe mr. polk you made the point about supply chains and the lack of diversification to supply chains. these are investment decisions that of inmate in the past we are now reckoning with. one question for asking for the commission going forward is just to thank a little bit more about should we have fo

cambridge analytical legally bought this data from credit companies banks social security and web giants like facebook google and twitter. in total the firm claim to possess about 425000 pieces of data for over $230000000.00 adults living in the united states. this is how they plan to use its traditional political campaigns use geography and demographics like age and gender to break down voters into target groups this can work up to a point but it misses the important personal details that really drive voter behavior we combine geographic and demographic information with up to $5000.00 data points of national political consumer and lifestyle behavior for every voter in the united states then we add a unique extra layer of data about personality decision making and motivation. this creates an unparalleled rich and detailed view of voters in the issues they care about so you know exactly who to target with exactly what type of message we call this behavioral micro targeting our team of data scientists psychologists and campaign experts can show you which individual voters you need to win o

looking at the amish because the internal revenue code was changed to require a social security number for the child tax creditthe amish do not believe in participating in the social security system because they depend on themselves and not the government for assistance. they don't claim the earned income tax credit and when we had dependency exemptions, there is a process used for about four decades where the amish would come in and prove they were at the amish to the social security department agency and the agency would tell the irs yes, they are approved and every year they would file the return and the irs would help them file paperwork to show their children existed, etc. then we would file their return. the irs refused to do that this year because the child tax credit requires social security numbers and i am writing vigorous response. i already raised this in testimony, i think it's in violation with the religious freedom act and several other provisions. we'll see where we go with that but it's where you get a constitutional issue in tax that might be successful but we'll see where we go with it. i'm

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we're going to be scrapping universal credit and going to be replacing it with a social security systemespect at its heart and that tackles poverty. because everywhere universal credit has been rolled out, we've seen very serious problems. we've seen people going into debt, people going into rent arrears. some people even facing eviction as a result of it. we think the system really is too flawed and it has to be scrapped. crucially, labour is not saying what the new system would look like. they are saying it will be fairer, will think a lot more about the security claimants come they are noticing what it would look like. some of universal credit‘s critics think that it would be far easier to reform it and make big changes to how the system works then get rid of it completely. now, this comes after a very feeble rail, difficult week in westminster and ahead of conservative party conference, with talk of a potential no—confidence vote this week. some are really pushing that idea now because they are increasingly concerned that the prime minister might have a way around that legislation t

we're going to be scrapping universal credit and going to be replacing it with a social security systems heart and that tackles poverty. because everywhere universal credit has been rolled out, we've seen very serious problems. we've seen people going into debt, people going into rent arrears. some people even facing eviction as a result of it. we think the system really is too flawed and it has to be scrapped. what labour is not saying is exactly what it would replace it with however. and even some of universal credit‘s main critics in the other parties think that you are better to reform the system rather than replace it completely. so i think there will be a lot of questions for jeremy corbyn on exactly how he is going to set up a completely new benefit system. just before we move on to what might be coming up this week, what is the politics of wanting to scrap universal credit? are they trying to shore up their core vote ? are they trying to shore up their core vote? i think quite frankly the labour party thinks it is beyond redemption. they have been promising a lot of bold economi

fraud protection , there is no comparison between those two as a tool because the credit report is somebody takes your social security number they found on the dark web after somebody sold it, the way you're going to find out about that account is to see it on your credit report, not to find it out any other way. it is really incumbent on people to do that as well as to do things like checking your online bank statement, your online credit card statement as often as you possibly can. host: what does equifax offer as far as rectifying -- rectifying the situation? guest: they have a site set up or you can check to see if you have been hacked and put your information and they will tell you and if you have been impacted. you have until january i think to submit your claim and you can either apply for monetary claims , there has been some debate as to exactly how much that will be. host: i think the initial amount was $125 per guest: so many $125. -- guest: you can also apply for credit monitoring services and that can be useful as well, we have some credit monitoring stuff from lending tree that we offer as well