mr. putin is up to. the situation has clarified so much in the last week. let me start by asking you a question. you are sitting in moscow. give us a sense if you could and can of what the atmosphere is like. i think you said a week ago that you said mr. putin had not really conditioned or prepared his public for anything remotely resembling a major conflict. i wondered, what is the mood? >> the mood has changed dramatically last night when mr. putin spoke in the evening on television. he gave a 17-minute long address that started with a narrative the history of the ukraine-russia and history of the ukraine and then it passed to discuss the issues at hand with european security around russia's attitude toward european security and then he talked toward the end, maybe 15 minutes after he had started he talked about the need to recognize the republic of donetsk. somewhere in the middle of the speech the impression some had was that mr. putin was going to announce an imminent invasion of ukraine,

mr. putinhat has cost already over 14,000 lives. ukrainian soldiers have been bravely fighting and dying to protect their country from what has been naked aggression from russia. we hear even h from ukrainian leadership that their forces would face an unequal fight in a full-scale russian invasion. and,p unfortunately, couldn't help but be outnumbered and overwhelmed. and while moscow has amassed the largest concentration of military forces seen since the end of the cold war, it continues to make accusations that it is not ukraine but somehow russia that is under threat. all the while making demands that ukraine never join nato or control its own destiny. even as he threatens war with ukraine, mr. putin demands to be treated as the head of a normal government. he thrills of being given one-on-one meetings with other world leaders while being invited to diplomatic floor. he rails her russia has been unfairly singled out for sanctions. he demands respect even as he lays out a thesis denying that

mr. putinstify his assembly of significant combat power. now, the russians say they are withdrawing some of those forces now that exercises are complete. but we do not see that. quite the contrary, we see them add to the more than 150,000 troops that they already have along the border. even in the last couple of days. they inch closer to that border we see them fly and more combat aircraft we see them sharpen the readiness in the red sea. we see them stocking up their blood supply. you know, i was a soldier myself not that long ago. and i know firsthand that you do not do these sort of things for no reason. i knew it certainly do not do them if you're getting ready to pack up and go home. and so we and our allies will stay vigilant. we will watch for the so-called false flag operations where russia manufactures a dramatic event to justify an attack. the play that we've seen them run and a past. and will continue to explore ways to enhance our readiness as united states and others have done with

— sanctions affected russia or mr putin? i— sanctions affected russia or mr putin? h a huge _ actions. here we are again with a huge army— actions. here we are again with a huge army sitting on the border of ukraine _ huge army sitting on the border of ukraine. iris sanctions in the past have _ ukraine. iris sanctions in the past have not— ukraine. iris sanctions in the past have not changed mr putin's actions, and what _ have not changed mr putin's actions, and what we — have not changed mr putin's actions, and what we need now is a series of sanctions _ and what we need now is a series of sanctions and other actions by the west— sanctions and other actions by the west that — sanctions and other actions by the west that will change his actions. how worried are you that if there is a russian incursion into ukraine come if we do see military action, that that could spill over into other parts of europe or involve other parts of europe or involve other countries? 50. other parts of europe or involve other countries?— other parts of europe or involve other countries? so

it will be mr. putin who will bear the responsibility for the suffering and immense sacrifice that ensues. you know, i have been doing this for a long time, this business of national security. i joined the united states army in the middle of the cold war. i have served and fought alongside nato allies for the better part of my adult life. i can honestly say that i have never seen the alliance more relevant and more united, more resolute than i see it today. mr. putin says he does not want a strong nato on his western flight. he is getting exactly that. also, to lithuania to spend some time with these strong allies, who likewise take these obligations seriously. i will visit with their troops in mind. i will see their leaders. talk with mine and talk about how together we can bolster the defense of the alliance. i would also like to at my appreciation to bulgaria, just today agreed to host the army stryker company were joining training opportunities. these troops will be departing germany in the coming day

we are holding that in abeyance and hope that can affect mr. putin. : can you characterize how much activity there is behind the scenes to give putin taken offramp? >> there has been a lot. you showed the full court press by this administration to try to find a diplomatic step forward. we made serious proposals. about ways we can change things that we are doing in europe to try to address the situation there and try to address some of mr. putin's concerns. some things are clearly off the table. but we have made serious proposals and we want the russians to respond in kinds. bill: what is off the table? >> the issue of ukraine's membership in nato is an issue for ukraine and nato. that's not something mr. putin can institute a veto over or decide for himself. that's between the alliance and ukraine. bill: what is on the table? what are we willing to give him? >> we made serious proposals changing the scope and scale of some of our exercises in europe. talking about offensive missile capabilities in europe. we put forward other proposals to try to convin

there's plenty of opportunity for mr. putin to do the right thing here and be serious about finding a diplomatic way forward and de-escalating the tensions by moving those troops away. nancy, wall street journal. >> thank you. on the raid, the u.s. said it was a kill or capture mission. where would he have gone had he been captured? and also can i follow-up on the question about the embeds. can you give us a sense of when we'll know the media access to the plan for troops deploying to europe? thank you. >> nancy, i'll try to work all that access stuff in as fast as i can. i don't have a time certain for you. and i'm not going to get into the tactics, techniques and procedures of what might have been a capture mission that obviously didn't turn out that way. but i think it would be better for everybody if we didn't talk about eventualities on a mission that didn't occur because, as i said, when i first start talking about this on wednesday, we want to be able to do these things in the future. we have to expect that isis is going

if mr. putin is serious about achieving that sort of outcome, he will find in the united states and in this audience no better or more serious interlocutor. and if he's not as his deeds thus far tended to indicate, it will be clear to the entire world that he started a war with diplomatic options left on the table. it will be mr. putin who will bear the responsibility for the suffering and sacrifice that ensues. i've been doing this for a long time, this business of national security. i joined the united states army in the middle of the cold war and i've served and fought alongside nato allies for the better part of my adult life. but i can honestly say that i've never seen the alliance more relevant and more united and more resolute than i see it today. mr. putin says he doesn't want a strong nato on thesp western flank. he is getting exactly that. also on the part for poland and lithuania to spend some time with the strong allies who likewise take these obligations seriously. i will visit with t

and mr. putinstify this grab of territory. and there is no justification for it. and i can tell you there will be strong bipartisan support in the united states senate and congress for the strongest possible reaction by the united states and our allies. >> i wonder what you make of this. this is just into cnn according to kaitlan collins and our producer kevin liptek. president biden and president zelenskyy are currently speaking. that's according to a white house official. what's to be done at this moment for both men? >> well, you know, the united states and our allies have provided the weapons and equipment to the ukrainians to help defend themselves. we recognize the lack of balance on the military capacity of ukraine and russia, but we do know the ukrainian people are tough people. they're going to stand up for their independence. they're going to protect their country. and we've got to make sure that we're on their side. we can help, and i think the supplying of equipment and the strong sanct

but i don't think anyone knows what mr. putin is going to do other than mr. putin. >> so on the ukrainian ambassador to the uk, when he said recently that potentially the ukraine would pull back from its demand to join nato if they could avert this potential invasion. the ukrainian government comes out and says that is not true. of course, it's part of the ukrainian constitution. but what we heard from a top uk official was that if kyiv decided to go that direction that they would support that. is there an appetite for that type of appeasement within nato? >> i don't think the ukrainian government is going to give up their sovereignty. that's what this is all about, a sovereign nation can make their own decisions. whatever ukraine decides, it's not up to nato. it's up to ukraine as to what type of security alliances they want to enter into. certainly we'd respect their judgment but we also support their sovereignty. not only their political sovereignty but also their geographical sovereignty. so -- >> so if kyiv chose that, you would back it? >> we can't requi

mr. putin's ability. they will learn from other russians will learn from us and we expect -- we have not seen any change in what we believe their desire is to move in ukraine and they've suffered setbacks but i don't think we can assume they will stay setbacks, that they will try to work through the resistance and for challenges they've had -- go ahead. >> have you seen any new threats to article five from russian forces? >> russia that it will hold accountable any nation that supplies weapons to ukraine that is forces, is there a risk that this could escalate and retaliate against nations providing cash. >> there has been a risk of escalation since before mr. putin decided to move in with tens of thousands of troops and tanks and air forces and aircraft ballistic missiles. if you want to talk about escalation, let's talk about escalation, mr. putin is the one escalating this and continues to do so. will stand by the ark ukrainian armed forces and as other native allies have we will continue to find ways

putin put out. we took that as tacit approval for what mr. britton is doing. -- mr. putin is doing.ou can point also to concerning comments by the chinese foreign ministry yesterday that made it clear that they were not going to support any what they called unlawful unilateral sanctions against russia and then they blamed the u.s. for contributing security assistance ukraine, somehow, blaming us for this issue. there was no mention in their statement about the 150,000 plus soldiers and the threats that mr. putin has been lobbying against ukraine now for many weeks including just yesterday. we wonder, can it really be the chinese policy now to support separatist movements over the sovereignty of nationstates. that is an interesting twist, isn't it. reporter: thank you. i would like to go back to the movements of u.s. troops to the baltic states. and to the eastern flank. is there any consideration of sending more u.s. troops if there is an invasion on a permanent basis on the eastern flank of nato? secretary kirby: there is no expectation at this time, sylvia, that we are going to mo

right now mr. putin has followed this and decided this is the right time in which he can push his agenda. unfortunately we're not doing as much as we could be doing without actually encumbering any of our troops. just to give you an example, if we would have started with our defensive capabilities in ukraine earlier, that might have made mr. putin rethink whether or not it was worth while to actually come in and attack them knowing that he could have loss of life that was greater. second of all right now, as you know, we've had in the united states a change in our heart with regard to being a producer of energy. beginning with mr. biden stepping in and shutting down pipelines, deciding he didn't want to do oil and gas leases on federal lands, that sent a message to the crude oil -- to the markets that they're going to have to increase the price on crude oil, which has resulted in significant increases to the american public, over 40% increases due to inflation on the supply side with respect to petroleum

findi like mr putin, for example? and i su ose, like mr putin, for example?tin, for example? and i sunspose. it may _ like mr putin, for example? and i suppose, it may affect _ like mr putin, for example? and i suppose, it may affect regular- suppose, it may affect regular rations to. suppose, it may affect regular rations ta— suppose, it may affect regular rations to-_ suppose, it may affect regular rations to. . ., ., , , rations to. -- regular rations. they are published _ rations to. -- regular rations. they are published how _ rations to. -- regular rations. they are published how the _ rations to. -- regular rations. they are published how the sanction - are published how the sanction regime looks like. first they have said they will go after people who are connected or supporting the kremlin. so i think that is pretty clear, the foreign secretary has talked about the oligarchs in london or who have their money in london. secondly, there is a long list of strategically important industries that have been named, energy extractors, banking, defence, techn

>> we cannot trust anything mr. putin says.provoked invasion into ukraine is on his shoulders. it is solely his campaign. i can tell you we are prepared for any contingency. we are well prepared and we will take every precaution to defend our own national security and the security of europe. in this matter, it is clear that mr. putin has run into more resistance than he anticipated. ukrainian people are so brave. his -- is providing inspiration, the resistance is much rater than mr. putin expected. he is getting frustrated and this is costing him greatly. there is one way he can solve this problem, and that is to stop the war. laura: if he does not stop the war and he is not deterred by the fact his currency is sinking , what does the u.s. do next? >> we are going to continue to ratchet up the sanctions. that is what we have been doing not by ourselves, but with allies and support around the world. we now are tracing all of the assets of mr. putin and his oligarchs in an effort to freeze those assets that are outside russia. we

mr. putin's hands. reporter: you spoke earlier about the thousands of -- [indiscernible] secretary kirby: yeah. reporter: the situation that has not emerged, helping americans get out. there is a broader situation that's taking place on the border. you now have almost 300,000 people that have crossed over the border in the last four days. is there any discussion that those forces may be committed to a broader humanitarian mission under whatever authority to ease that situation given the limited resourcing that poland may have? secretary kirby: we're in constant touch with our state department colleagues and with polish authorities. and if there's such a demand signal outside of ukraine, if there's such a demand signal, obviously, the department of defense would do our part and help out. there's no such demand signal right now. jeff shogal. reporter: thank you. i just wanted to clarify, when you answered tony's questions, i think you said something along the lines no one is sniffing at these weapons. was

mr. putin has said they won't occupy it. but of course, he said a lot of things that turned out to be true in the last week or so. so, i'm afraid that what may well happen here is that ukraine loses its sovereignty and we will have a guerrilla war that will go on because the ukrainian people do not want this to happen, and they will fight it. they said they will fight it, and i know from friends and colleagues i have their, they are signing up for the reserves. they are getting equipment and they will fight it. kristen: dr. catherine stoner, thank you for joining us today with your insight. >> thank you for having me. kristen: and we'll be right back. the mask mandate is set to end in the final bay area county that's been holding out. so how do you assess if it's finally ok, safe for you to take off your mask? kristen: santa clara county announced today at noon that it's planning to drop its indoor mask mandate next week. the county was the last in the bay area to require masks. how the visuals there wanted to see kay's leve

the kremlin says mr putin's decision to put russia's - putin's decision to put russia's nuclear arsenalthe british foreign secretary liz truss. this was a pretty _ foreign secretary liz truss. t�*u 3 was a pretty extraordinary statement this morning by the kremlin's spokesman. this country's special nuclear deterrence forces are now on this extra heightened state of alert, and he said the order was given by mr putin in response to statements made, which she adjusted there might be a collision or a conflict between nato and russia. he said he wasn't going to name names about the author of those statements, but when he continued and said it was the british foreign secretary. and said it was the british foreign secreta ., , a, , . ., secretary. jenny hill in moscow, thank you- _ 0ur political correspondent, nick eardley is at westminster. any response to that suggestion it was liz truss's comments that may have led to vladimir putin's moves on his nuclear arsenal? what has the general response been at westminster so far to the fighting and the possibility of peace talks today? aha, possibi

should that be the way that mr. putin wants to go. we would obviously like to see that not happen and we would like to see him de-escalate. we would like to see him make a better choice here. which, we still think there is time to do. de-escalate. move those troops back home. keep them safe. and not pursue a war of choice totally on what is his whim. >> we sit here today -- as we sit here today, are there still active functioning channels of u.s. russian military to military communication? are you able to, you know, the secretary, the chairman, are you able to pick up the phone and will your counterparts talk to you? >> i will point to conversations we have right out in recent days. the secretary spoke with the minister a few days ago. german millie -- chairman millie has had many conversations with his counterpart. we have seen no indication that those lines of communication between those two leaders are closed. i do not have any additional phone conversations to talk about today are announcement we have seen no indication that there

. _ 5aying that about mr lav rob and mr putin. hut— saying that about mr lav rob and mr putin, but weitish troops are now on standby to help nato _ troops are now on standby to help nato and — troops are now on standby to help nato and eastern europe as this crisis _ nato and eastern europe as this crisis continues. gf nato and eastern europe as this crisis continues.— crisis continues. of course, mr johnson. _ crisis continues. of course, mr johnson, according _ crisis continues. of course, mr johnson, according to - crisis continues. of course, mr johnson, according to the - crisis continues. of course, mr. johnson, according to the paper, crisis continues. of course, mr- johnson, according to the paper, off to brussels and warsaw later on thursday. the front page of the ft — i don't know what you make of this story, this is this idea of this new potentially green energy source, the power to boil 60 cuddles marks a huge advance in nuclearfusion technology. —— 60 kettles. does this get you excited? i technology. -- 60 kettles. does this get you excited?— get you excited? i think it c

so far we have been able to predict every move mr. putin has made. obviously he's meeting more resistance than he expected from the ukrainians. first of all, let us just reach out and say how proud we are of the leadership of ukraine and standing up and defending their country. i agree with the other comment. i expect this is just mr. putin trying to make it more difficult for our alliance to stay united. we will always monitor every threat made by mr. putin but we watch his actions, not his language. we'll take all the precautions we need to. the focus is on ukraine and he needs to take the temperature down. he needs to remove the troops. >> i'd like, sir, to get your assessment of the talks between russia and -- >> once again, you absolutely uses cause. having said that, we always wanted to keep a diplomatic channel open and we respect the decision by president zelenskyy to meet with mr. putin. we're quite concerned about mr. putin's desires. >> let's talk about president zelenskyy who has been very vocal. question to you, sir, do you agree with th

mr. putin and republicans in the senate and the house and the white house are united. with further encouragement to the ukraine he will pay a very, very, very heavy price from the economic point of view and the isolation politically. martha: there is some division within both sides really. this is a sample of that here is what she had to say this week. >> we are raising the questions about sanctions and who would be hurt by those because our experience is typically those sanctions do not affect the autocrats they affect the people and they are not an effective way of moving forward. >> when you say that sir? >> firstly sanctions we talk about will affect mr. putin and his economy and financing his aggressive activities. secondly there will be personal sanctions and go against the individuals that prevent them from traveling or using the international banking system. these are gripping sanctions that will have an impact on the bad actors or the russian economy generally because it is financing t

we need to make it very costly for mr. putinhat, and make sure that the information is made available to all people, including russians, as to exactly how mr. putin is leading that country and leading them in the wrong direction. >> i spoke earlier with congressman adam kinzinger who says that the u.s. and nato allies should impose a no fly zone over ukraine. the former u.s. ambassador volker agreed, at least for parts of ukraine. do you also agree? >> well, i think we need to consider all options except introduction of american or nato troops in ukraine. but to enforce a no fly zone, you are putting americans or nato forces at risk. and there is always a possibility of a confrontation directly with russia. so, it has to be in a way that is protecting civilian population or a way in which we can try to neutralize some of the activities that are taking place without a direct confrontation with russia. so, it's not easy to enforce a no fly zone, but it is something i think we need to consider particularly as we see the attacks on

how would mr. putinff the ships and the oil of russia through the bosporus strait to the mediterranean? javier: no one really knows what will happen. turkey is under international agreements to stop russian warships going through the bosporus strait. he feels it is threatening his own interests. we will see whether turkey takes that call by ukraine. but it is more difficult to stop the flow of oil tankers, and most of the oil tankers across the bosporus strait do so under the russian flag. jonathan: it is one thing tensioning a pipeline that is not operational. it is another thing on the existing flows back and forth. what kind of sanctions are you braced for later today? javier: i think we are going to see very significant sanctions. i will expect that we are going to see sanctions on all major financial institutions in russia. i will expect that we will have more sanctions on principles of russia, including president putin himself. all of these most likely were discounted already by the kremlin. they k

paul adams in the heart of — what mr putin wants.kyiv, _ what mr putin wants. paul adams in the heart of kyiv, thank— what mr putin wants. paul adams in the heart of kyiv, thank you - what mr putin wants. paul adams in the heart of kyiv, thank you very - the heart of kyiv, thank you very much. let's return live now to munich, where the us vice president kamala harris is speaking. she is taking questions from the audience. and moderated by a former german ambassador to washington. i think we all know the history of nato and its reason for being. the spirit behind, this time that we use, the transatlantic community. the word community meaning a collection of individuals who see themselves as a collection, and that is where we are now. i do not disagree with you that it would be nice if we were presented with other circumstances but that is not where we are. we remain open to diplomacy. we have said it continuously. certainly i will speak for the united states. we believe it is an expression of our strength to seek as a first priority d

mr. putin's bluser and black mail, the biden administration responds with sophistication and determination. to ensure the united states and its allies pose no danger to russia if it abides by its own commitments and obligations. united states stands ready to find areas of common purpose and cooperation with russia if it is willing and sincere but the sovereignty of the ukraine and freedom of europe are not things to bargain away. in this, the united states, ukraine, and europe, speak with one voice. we are united and a we are resolute, last july, with ranking member wicker, wilson, and other commissioners, i had the opportunity to travel to estonia, bulgaria and norway, we saw across the baltic sea, the black sea and the arctic, the frontiers, although our shared enterprise is one of peace, we will not back down in the face of the kremlin's aggression and ready to respond to any threat of peace and liberty in europe. that is why i'm proud to be an original cosponsor of the defending ukraine sov

mr. putin's grasp. we could find a whole security network being challenged and that would have a far more detrimental impact on americans. we have to draw the line. we have to make it clear we won't allow mr. putin to compromise sovereignty of other countries. if he does, there's a heavy price to pay. we'll pay a price. nowhere near the price that putin will pay or russia will pay and nowhere severe if we continue him do this type of taking. >> neil: senator, you know as i do. oil is the currency for most everything that vladimir putin wants to do his country is a huge manufacturer of oil. right now that currency has gone up. good for him. and the argument goes that he will more than likely find enough willing customers even in the black market so pick up the oil that we prevent others from buying. and that china could be a customer, other countries could get the oil. if china does get the oil, should we punish them as well? >> first, mr. putin uses emergency as a weapon. that's why we opposed the nord

every day, mr putin brings more force to the border. troops in the last several days, but what he's bringing is all the enabling things that they need to be able to employ. so let's just say it one more time — he's bringing more force every day, he has over 109,000 there, and he's worried about this deployment. i think we need to look at that for its facts. indeed, general, and thank you for pointing that out. but just to say that the troops aren't being stationed in ukraine, as we've said in the introduction to this interview, as well, but surrounding it — so what's the strategic rationale they are? so, we are going there to both ensure and assure our allies that we will be there if we're needed. it was mentioned in the first play by the dod spokesman, we are there to show commitment to article five. and if this spills over into nato countries, then nato will be ready and the united states will be ready. so that's the red line, then, if this spills over into nato countries? that's when the west will act? well, i can't speak for nato, b

mr. putin's concerns.ly some things are clearly off the table but we've made serious proposals, and we want the russians to respond in kind to that. >> bill: what is off the table? >> secretary kirby: well, look, we've said that the issue of ukraine's membership in nato, that's an issue for ukraine and for nato. that is not something that mr. putin can simply institute a veto over, or decide for himself. that kind of thing is, again, between the alliance and ukraine. >> bill: okay. what's on the table then? what are we willing to give him? >> secretary kirby: we have made serious proposals and talked about changing, for instance, the scope and scale of some of our exercises in europe, being willing to talk about offensive missile capabilities in europe. we have certainly put forward other proposals to try to convince mr. putin that we are serious. >> bill: okay. what has the administration learned from the chaos out of kabul last august? >> secretary kirby: we are still digesting what happened in august, b

although this move by mr putin could _ yet. although this move by mr putin could open— yet.et. although this move by mr putin could open the door to that. - yet. although this move by mr putinl could open the door to that. because if he recognises — could open the door to that. because if he recognises these _ could open the door to that. because if he recognises these breakaway i if he recognises these breakaway regions _ if he recognises these breakaway regions and — if he recognises these breakaway regions and they— if he recognises these breakaway regions and they try _ if he recognises these breakaway regions and they try to _ if he recognises these breakaway regions and they try to take i if he recognises these breakaway regions and they try to take over| regions and they try to take over the territory _ regions and they try to take over the territory they— regions and they try to take over the territory they have _ regions and they try to take over the territory they have claimed, i the territory they have claimed, they don't— the territory they have claimed, they don

so mr. putine to negotiate. >> a few days ago u.s. officials allege that russia is planning a false flag operation that would be a pretext for the invasion of ukraine. they're saiding to planning a graphic propaganda video that would portray a fake invasion of ukraine. what's your take? >> that's what the russians do. they've done this before, and they're undoubtedly thinking about doing it now. this is part of their information campaign. this is part of their attempt to justify an attack on ukraine. they're going to put russian soldiers and russian special forces into ukraine. some are probably in ukraine right now. and they're going to have these russian soldiers attacking maybe into russia or maybe into other places, and they will be able to blame. they will try to blame the ukrainians for doing this. this is what they do. this is the false flag, and they will supplement it with these videos. they'll supplement it with all kinds of information designed to make it look like the ukrainians aren't

how optimistic are you mr putin will in fact step i are you mr putin will in fact step back and whati back and what concessions would he exect? ~ , ., , , expect? i think he is obviously t in: to expect? i think he is obviously trying to get — expect? i think he is obviously trying to get as _ expect? i think he is obviously trying to get as many - expect? i think he is obviously i trying to get as many concessions expect? i think he is obviously - trying to get as many concessions as he can reach. steve rosenberg was quite right in his report. some think it is only about pulling ukraine back into moscow's orbit, but it is also very clearly about putting's desire to get nato to roll back its expansion since 1997, and i think putin is angling for as much as possible. he has spied a moment of weakness in the west, or at least he thought he had. he saw biden presiding over a deeply divided america and he saw the abiding initiation withdrawal from afghanistan, so i think he thought there was a moment, but really he has been presented by a much more united front from the west than he was

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>> first, it's quite clear that mr. putin has done more to unite the nato allies than any other person that i know of. in the years i've been affiliated with the nato parliamentary assembly and nato, i've never seen such unity among our allies. ukrainians i speak to have a sort of fatalistic view. this is not new for them. they've blg dealing with this for eight years and in a larger sense for centuries, so i'm really impressed by just how calm the ukrainians i know are approaching the current situation. >> they're calm. what are they telling you? >> depending on who you speak to, you get a variety of opinions on whether or not mr. putin will invade. it's not just a binary as well. there are some who believe that putin will send in forces -- greater forces in the east and will continue to move westward, but wouldn't go into kyiv. there are others who believe that that is naive and that this will be a full-scale invasion. so i'm really struck by quite a variety of opinions. it's kind of hard to say there is one sort of mind am

they don't want to use all those measures, hoping that will prevent mr. putintaking over more ukrainian territory. i think that's a question no one can answer because this trip putin seems to not be deterred by the threat of sanctions. what president biden was saying is the steps he has taken so far have created a rationale for taking over more ukrainian territory. that is what they are particularly worried about. he has announced sanctions against two major russian banks. this is to block trade involving those two banks and to stop russia from raisi money from the west or trade debt and its financial system. he indicated they would be targeting a number of oligarchs, murderers -- members of the elite and their families. the point is this is the first tranche of sanctions and they are tough but we can do much worse if the situation on the ground gets worse. ros: were you surprised? i imagine some people watching may have been that t president was explicit about no intention of fighting russia? is it a surprise he has completely removing that option from the tab

mr. putintinues to add to his capability is and give himself options we said it could happen any day now we've been about that. when you look at what we are seeing, bill, some of this is in plain sight you can sit there commercial satellite imagery he continues to as the secretary said yesterday, uncoil his forces and make them ready to strike at any moment. i don't think we are hammering over individual pieces of rhetoric here. what we are seeing actually happen is mr. putin act on certainly what looks to be very clear intentions to invade ukraine again. bill: only a different way zelensky left his country in munich and then he went home to his country last night without issue but they were fears of putin wanted to lock him out of his country he would've done that. it did not happen. what does that tell you? >> it's hard to know what mr. putin is thinking on any given moment. he has a huge array of military forces around ukraine. he has a lot of options available to him. and i think we would n

that's all part of what mr. putin does.t's very clear that he has his operatives directly, indirectly, in ukraine, in order to produce false information to justify an invasion if, in fact, he does invade. so that's clearly part of his past record and it's clear that he's trying to do that in ukraine if, in fact, we see an incursion. >> martha: what to think of it the energy picture? because we didn't see this kind of activity. we saw it in 2014 under the obama administration in crimea. then we didn't see it during the trump years. now we are seeing this kind of saber rattling and really more of that along the borders of ukraine. do you think it was a mistake to remove opposition to nord streae keystone pipeline and to stop federal leasing and to remove our energy independence, which was hard-earned? >> senator cardin: well, i'm against nord stream 2. i thought it was a mistake when it started, it was mostly completed before president biden took office. it should have been stopped long before now. we do have an agreement wit

enough, significant enough, not going to harm russia enough, but hopefully it will be enough for mr putin, not just the us, but the west is serious, and more harm can befall them if they don't change course.- change course. sorry to interrupter, _ change course. sorry to interrupter, isn't - change course. sorry to interrupter, isn't that l change course. sorry to - interrupter, isn't that exactly the problem with sanctions at this level? surely the purpose would be to deter a next step, and what it seems you are saying is this won't do that, it will just make saying is this won't do that, it willjust make mr putin realised that there will be sanctions. i realised that there will be sanctions.— sanctions. i think that is riuht. sanctions. i think that is right. stronger- sanctions. i think that is| right. stronger sanctions sanctions. i think that is - right. stronger sanctions that came into force today was the one you mentioned, the germans deciding to at least nord stream two on hold. with respect to the other sanctions, that has really come out pretty loudly and said we should be goin

mr. putin the world that we have ironclad article five commitments. an attack on one is an attack on all. we know that he bristles about nato. he has made no secret about. we are making it clear that we are going to be prepared to defend our allies if it comes to that. hopefully it won't come to that. conflict is not inevitable. there is no reason for there to be armed conflict in ukraine or anywhere else on the european continent. mr. putin can go a long way to serving the and by taking seriously the proposal we have put forward diplomatically and de-escalating through moving some of his trips away. reporter: is there any evidence that anything you're saying that suggests those troops that are outside ukraine might carry on to poland, romania? mr. kirby: what we see is clear evidence everyday that he continues to destabilize the environment by adding more forces in the western part of his country, along belarus. in addition to naval activity in the mediterranean and north atlantic. he is provi

said mr. putin as move was quote an attempt to create a pretext for further invasion of ukraine.

mr. putin's blackmail, the biden administration's responded with sophistication and determination u.s. diplomats happen met with good faith and focused intent to over work. talk to give russia all assurances it needs at want the united states and allies pose no danger to russia if it abides by its own commitment and obligations. the united states stands ready to find areas of common purpose and cooperation with russia if it's really and sincere. this sovereignty of the ukraine and freedom of europe are not things to bargain away. the united states ukraine and europe compete with one voice. we are united. last july along with ranking member wicker, cochair, and ranking member wilson and other commissioners have the opportunity to travel to estonia, bulgaria and norway. we saw in person the same unity of purpose across nato's frontiers at the baltic sea, the black sea and the arctic. although our shared enterprise is one of peace, the u.s. and allies will not back down in this aggression. we are

mr. putin's head.usly we don't know and we don't think he's made a final decision one way or another with respect to military action in ukraine. but it is because he has shown no sign of deescalating that has led to concerns particularly on the flank bordering russia that that sort of prompted these decisions to move these forces. this is very much to your question, very much about deterring aggression against the nato alliance, but also shoring up our defenses on nato's eastern flank. mr. putin says he's concerned about nato on its eastern flank and his western flank. we, he's actually going to end up with that as a result by the uncertainty and the destabilizing activities that he's been causing. >> you mentioned the acute concern in nearby nato countries. does the u.s. share that concern, that fear that is romania? in potentially bulgaria? >> i don't know that i'd describe it as fear. we've had some pretty practical, pragmatic useful conversations with our nato allies, particularly those on the east