attorney and former deputy assistant attorney general harry litman. harry, nice to see you today.y big news, the fact that there is, one, obviously we know there's a special grand jury. but perhaps many have thought about a rudy giuliani in the mix of things. but senator lindsey graham is also on this list right now. tell me what you think of when you think about how this investigation is unfolding. is it surprising? >> well, sort of. i mean, she's casting as wide a net as the january 6th committee, so when you think of georgia and what she's investigating, you think of that call with raffensperger, the one that the january 6th committee detailed. but here she's called this and said she had to submit this to a judge, who had to okay it because these seven people are from out of state, that we're talking about a multi-state, coordinated campaign to influence the results in georgia and elsewhere. that's a very broad net, and it starts, as you say, with lindsey graham and november 13th and really goes all the way to pence. but the big heart of it is really rudy giuliani, who is calle

jim kavanaugh, harry litman, as promised, also still with us.information that you are giving to us, after you went through a lot of what was left on line by this person of interest. and one of the questions that comes out throughout all of this is what can they do, when it goes to a person like harry litman, like, what is usable there, and what stands out, based on what you've seen? >> that's a really good question, in terms of prosecuting this person. i will say that this person's obsession with death goes back years, mass death and mass murder. you know, the most recent music video he made was about getting shot by the cops, after you know, committing a school shooting. this is a very uncomplicated ideology this man has in support of mass death. he was also on these message boards that were constantly posting videos of beheadings and murder and things like that as well. this was a guy who was extremely built in to an online hemisphere that was totally focused on killing people. so that, i'm sure this will come up when this comes down to prosec

also with me, harry litman, former u.s. attorney, legal affairs columnist for the "l.a. times" and host of "the talking feds" podcast. and asha rangappa, former special agent in the counterintelligence division of the fbi and senior lecturer and assistant dean at the yale jackson school of global affairs. welcome to you all, guys. thanks for joining us on this. ken, give us the big-picture outlook as you're out in front of that courthouse today. what are you watching for? >> today, yasmin, we're watching to see if they can seat a jury of impartial jurors who either haven't read news coverage of this case or who have convince adjudge they can fairly hear it. and so far they've gotten three of those panelists. but big picture overall, one of the interesting questions here is, is steve bannon going to go through with this? the judge has created a situation, a donald trump-appointed judge, where he's essentially cut off all of the legal defenses that bannon wanted to use in this case and there really is no factual dispute. he defied congressional subpoenas. he wasn't serving

let's bring in harry litman. he is a former attorney general and michael who is a former police officer who was there on january 6th. michael, i want to start with you. you are so candid about your thoughts when you watch these january 6th proceedings unfold. i'm curious what you think about steve bannon, who on his own podcast is quite brazen and self-righteous, but then when it comes to having to testify to what he knows in public, you know, he tries to fight it every way. >> yeah, steve bannon -- i mean, he is an entertainment media personality. he defied a subpoena. unfortunately, i don't think for steve bannon he is going to be able to dance his way out of that. he should go to prison. you know, he blatantly defied the subpoena. it is enforceable by law. the department of justice had him indicted. he should go to jail. >> harry, your thoughts on the repeated efforts from steve bannon to try to delay, delay, delayed this trial that is scheduled to start on monday. >> it is really telling, isn't it? remember,

also with me, harry litman, served as deputy sis stan attorney general in the clinton administration. carlos curbelo, former congress from florida, and ryan rally. ali, i think the strength of this committee has been its ability to weave a compelling story. tell me more about the story they plan to weave today. >> to weave a compelling story and do so while they're still actively investigating and actively getting more information. that's going to be part of what we end up seeing just a few hours from now, chris, the idea that this is a script that chairman raskin told me he's rewritten five or six times because they've gotten new people coming forward and specifically the former top white house counsel, pat cipollone, coming forward at the end of last week and testifying for more than seven hours in front of the committee. that videotaped testimony is going to be seen for the first time today in these hearings. it's going to detail in part this meeting in the white house on december 18th that happened between outside advisers like rudy giuliani and others with the former president as

jim kavanaugh, harry litman, as promised, also still with us.ou are getting to us, after you went through a lot of what was left on line by this person of interest. and one of the questions that comes out throughout all of this is what can they do, when it goes to a person like harry litman, like, what is usable there, and what stands out, based on what you've seen? >> that's a really good question, in terms of prosecuting this person. i will say that this person's obsession with death goes back years, mass death and mass murder. you know, the most recent music video he made was about getting shot by the cops, after you know, committing a school shooting. this is a very complicated ideology this man has in support of mass death. he was also on these message boards that were constantly posting videos of beheadings and murder and things like that as well. this was a guy who was extremely tilting to an online hemisphere that was totally focused on killing people. so, i'm sure this will come up when he goes to prosecution. >> and then, known as a ra

let's bring in harry litman, a former u.s. attorney and a legal columnist "the l.a. times."s there anything legally speaking that pat cipollone would be prohibited from sharing? >> he's going to try -- and they've already negotiated this -- to steer around down the middle attorney/client stuff. that's okay. he is a greatest hits package of crazy statements by donald trump. he is the one who says to mark meadows, you know, if you do this, you'll have blood on your effing hands. he's the one who says to mark meadows about pence. you've got to stop it and meadows says, you've heard him. he thinks the rioters are right. he's the one who has to go to cassidy hutchinson, a 25-year-old and plead with her because meadows won't speak to him. please try to keep him from going to the capital. he's the one who says, if i go to the capitol, it will be every effing crime imaginable. now, they've negotiated and probably what he wants is he's not -- all these statements i've said to you, trump's nowhere around. attorney general has to be with the client and for the purpose of getting legal

this, harry litman, is a west wing version of the doj hearing we saw.saw senior people in the doj trying to stand up to richard clark. we'll now hear from two senior white house officials trying to stand up against the coup plotter in the oval office, donald trump. >> just as the drama there, nicolle, you had the entire leadership of the doj saying we're going to resign, here you have two people -- it's going to be riveting it seems to me, they're lifelong republicans, they have careers they want to think about, just two weeks left in the administration and they both say i can't stay here another hour. they don't go home to talk it over with their spouses. what they see so repulses them that they are packing up and out of there immediately. it strikes me that that's going to be an eyeness account of some really damning behavior. >> michael bender, i should have looked in your book for reporting on pottinger. let me read you what i found in jon carl's book. when pottinger heard an unconfirmed report that there was a delay in sending the national card, he

. >> joining me is harry litman. he department doesn't have to wait here, so why have we yet to see any criminal referrals come out of these hearings? >> it's always been independent for the department to do as it will. remember though they had the biggest investigation and prosecution of all time plowing through these hundreds of actual rioters on the ground. and only in the last couple of months have they opened investigations that potentially target the political actors, up to and including trump. so in doj time, they're moving with real dispatch. this is a huge sprawling case. when we get to the final $64,000 question, to indict or not to indict trump, there will be a welter of different kinds of policy and political considerations. that will take time and involve the white house. cheney made a really important point about potential crimes against lower folks, say, meadows, ornato and people from trump's orbit. i think people would expect following the normal timeline, that it will still b any insigho what timelin

betsy woodruff swan, frank figliuzzi and harry litman and alemany. over the last five days it has been so fascinating. i went back and watched this section of the testimony about the only disputed aspect of cassidy hutchinson's testimony and liz cheney doubles down in the live testimony and she comes back and says are you sure? cassidy says yes. did they ever say it wasn't true? cassidy says no. liz cheney said it again in an interview with abc's jon karl that aired yesterday. what do you make of what this role has done or if it has done anything to change liz cheney as a politician? >> that's a good question. she's in the rare spot of being in a position where hughing to her principles on a very basic matter is viewed conventionally as a political death knell and the limited polling that we have about the republican primary in wyoming does not contain any good news for cheney. there's no question about that, but she distinguishes herself from a host of other anti-trump republicans by taking this bet that standing on the principles she's committed to

tom winter, harry litman, thanks to both of you right now in this close-knit community, scores are family suffering the unfathic am -- aiden mccarthy is one of those victims, found crying after the shooting, hidden beneath the body of his 37-year-old father, kept, and next to his 35-year-old mother iirina. he was reunited with his grandfear who told "the chicago tribune." he said, are mommy and daddy coming soon? he doesn't understand. aiden's parents are among the seven who were killed that day. so are jacqueline sunday him, and nicholas toledo saragoza. 69-year-old eduardo uvaldo we learned is the seven upth victim. maggie vespa, we can't talk about these victims enough. we need to understand their lives, the loss, literally right down the street there was a mother and a daughter watching the parade together. tell us about them. >> reporter: katie goldstein had this conversation with lester last night, telling us she was at the parade with her moment. one of the tros striking details is she had just lost her moment. so they we're trying to cheer themselves up and have time together, cas

. >> harry litman, you always work for me, so come see me again. growing covid concerns across america, with increasing cases, hospitalizations and even deaths, should americans put their masks back on? many of you are well aware of covid cases across the country, they are on the rise. this thanks to a new more infectious subvariant. the biden administration is now so concerned about ba.5, it has extended the public health emergency declaration, which allows many americans access to covid tests, to treatments and vaccines. joining me now, dr. natalie -- medical computer push -- welcome dr., natalie, let's look at the last couple of weeks alone. covid has gone up 12.6% in the u.s., several cities are now asking people to start taking more precautions. they are saying, you should wear a mask indoor. anytime in crowded spaces. how severe is this wave now? how severe is it going to be? how does this sub variant, compared to predecessors? >> alex, i feel, we are in a little bit of a cycle, if you will. each sub lineage from the original omicron variant

i want to bring in harry litman. ice to see you again here tonight, harry, new reporting tonight, right? cnn learning from two sources that the committee did not directly, did not directly ask pat cipollone if he told hutchinson on the day of the attack they would get quote charged with every crime imagine fastball they went down to the capitol. any idea as to why they would not ask that? maybe they were asking around it? tiptoeing, not knowing what he might say and what is the logic of not coming out and saying, did you say it? >> i agree it was perplexing. they tacted around it. not just that one. she said he did not contradict anyone but that is not the same. you don't want to get that bad sound bite even if they do not display it can be used down the line. they lacked confidence that he would give them what they wanted. still in all, this is their chance and why not take it and given the upside. they must of had an advanced sense that he could of gotten squirrely, so squirrely it would not have been worth the risk

attorney harry litman, he's host of the talking fence podcast. former head secretary in 2020 democratic presidential candidate castro, and john congressman jolly for msnbc. it is good to see you all. harry, i want to start with you because you have described this most recent supreme court term as a wrecking ball to the legal system. what worries you most about the future of this court? >> everything. so, alicia, this is their first term, and you might have thought that they would've treated a little lightly, but on the contrary, it is a very bold, very aggressive court. carefully chosen, as the conservative majority to represent really extreme views at the margins. and everything they have taken up. so you gave the three things that are possibly coming up next term, and that is before they fed out there docket. they have affirmative action, it's on the chopping block and most people to think that top will happen. this election law, there is a very dangerous worrisome decision where they may actually hold that state legislators cannot be overruled

. >>> let's bring in harry litman, former u.s. y, and deputy assistant attorney general, and scott jennings, a former special assistant to president george w. bush. gentlemen, great to see you. harry, we know that steve bannon loves an audience. do you think that he has any trick up his sleeve where he could turn this court proceeding into a circus? >> he's going to try. i actually don't think he does. the judge has pretty meticulously kept him from making any sorts of arguments based on things that just don't fly, alisyn. he can't try to say, oh, i got privilege from trump, because, a, he didn't, and b, it wouldn't count so he's really just left with the bare facts of they said show up at this date, and he didn't. i think there will be efforts. they're up to 14 now, by the way. they'll probably finish jury selection today and the government's case will be quick. i think you'll see him try to do little stunts where he insinuates that info in, causes little squirmishes with the trial, the judge bats them down but gives him a little

let's bring in harry litman, former u.s. attorney, and assistant attorney. and errol louis, a political anchor for spectrum news. gentlemen, great to see you. why does steve bannon now want to testify before the committee after he's had his chance for months. >> he's trying to delay the inevitable and the inevitable is this trial for contempt of congress. it's okay to assert your privilege against self-incrimination, everybody has that right, it's okay to make a bogus claim of executive privilege, but you have to show up and do it. and steve bannon didn't bother to show up. that's why his trial is scheduled to begin, and that's why he'll almost certainly lose that case. this is a last ditch effort, they sent legal papers, let's delay the trial just a little bit more because i want to go engage in a political circus before the january 6th committee, and the committee wants nothing to do with this, and so he will have to answer for his actions in disregarding the subpoena for all of these mont mo months. >> the judge has decided it will start on time. harry, t

attorney, deputy assistant attorney general harry litman. good to have you on, sir. wonder, first on the executive privilege claim that apparently never was, what does this mean for the former president if he did not, in fact, claim executive -- or invoke, rather, executive privilege? does this affect access to other potential witnesses and documents for the committee and courts? >> look, he never had executive privilege to apply in the first place. he wasn't the president, we only have one at a time. that's one of only six reasons why his claim orbanen's 11th hour claim of executive privilege is bogus, and as jessica mentioned, the attorney said he never did. so it's really a non starter in eight different ways. but it doesn't apply to anything else because trump doesn't have any executive privilege to waive. it's just a last-minute employ to try to affect the dynamic of the trial. >> harry, you are skeptical that bannon will ever testify. his demand is i will testify before this committee, but you can't depose me behind closed doors first. you have to do it all in

and harry litman, former u.s. attorney and former deputy assistant attorney general. thank you all very much for being here. jill, let me start with you. so, pat cipollone spoke to the committee for eight and a half hours today. just how important is's testimony to the work that the committee is doing? >> based on what we know, cassidy hutchinson, and other witnesses it is very important. first of all, he would corroborate some of her testimony and take away any questions about her total credibility. that is important. but more importantly, he was in the room with the former president. he was there. he wasn't over conversations. he wasn't hearing mark meadows say this is what the president wants or this is what the president said. he was in the room. so, he could really be a john dean of this hearing. he could be the one who takes it to the next level. >> harry, here is what the washington post has reported about trump and cipollone's relationship. this is interesting. though cipollone has been a fairly reliable public ally to trump, he is not close to the former pres

and harry litman is here, former u.s. attorney and former deputy assistant attorney general. kyle, expectations clearly are high, high, high, for tomorrow's hearing. tell us what you know? how damning can this evidence be against trump? >> well look, every hearing is produced new details, so we know a lot about what trump was doing or not doing during the violence on january six. you laid it out very well in your opening, there's a lot of interactions he had, who was reaching, who was pleading with him to do something, and how did he rebuffed them. correctly, that we may learn of him very clear and explicit ways that we did it before. and the question is to, who was he calling? we know for example, he called a couple of lawmakers to try to get them to continue to prolong, delay, the session of to continue challenging votes. even as the violence was underway, or winding down. so i think the committee is gonna really zoom in on some of those and provide new details about that. and as you pointed out to, they are gonna look at what happened at the january six, what was trump doi

and harry litman is here, former u.s. attorney, former deputy assistant attorney general.e host of the fabulous "talking feds" podcast. jackie, i've been starting with the reporters to make sure that i didn't miss anything that your ears might have caught. take me inside what you think the committee achieved in terms of not just what we heard right there, implicating donald trump in a witness tampering incident that has now been referred to the department of justice, but in terms of all the connective tissue that was expected and was produced between donald trump, his closest allies and advisers, and the extremists themselves. >> yeah, nicole, that was really quite an emotional roller coaster, i think, for me and for the american public. i think the committee did an extremely effective job at sort of taking us through the swings of these surreal, almost comedic moments, to in the next flash of a moment, these very panicked fears about a potential insurrection and attempts at actually fomenting a coup, taking place at the white house in the oval office on december 18th and

attorney harry litman. good morning.us. >> good morning. >> we show that to put it together, because so much of this is woven together to tell the story of what happened. frankly, you hear one hearing and say, my gosh, that's as explosive as it can be, and then it's the next hearing. this week was cassidy hutchinson. let's start with her testimony, how powerful it was. what part of the story this tells, and who else it might bring into the conversation. someone like pat cipollone, who has been subpoenaed by the committee. >> i thought it was extraordinarily powerful. the main thing it did was take the element of violence, the actual riot on the ground which we all saw, and people might have thought before had happened spontaneously or was a crowd run amuck, and it seemed to present it as something the former president actually waned and fomented. and she is kind of car of meadows' aide. everything from the violence that president trump is fine, if not eager to see his vice president harmed, acknowledged that if they go d

>> very fresh, many questions remain, kelly o'donnell, frank figliuzzi, harry litman, thank you so much. jim cavanaugh is sticking around and we are continuing our breaking news coverage of a deadly mass shooting at a fourth of july parade in highland park, illinois. we're going to fit in a quick break. illinois we're going to fit in a quick break. there's a monster problem and our hero needs solutions. so she starts a miro to brainstorm. “shoot it?” suggests the scientists. so they shoot it. hmm... back to the miro board. dave says “feed it?” and dave feeds it. just then our hero has a breakthrough. "shoot it, camera, shoot a movie!" and so our humble team saves the day by working together. on miro. this is xfinity rewards. our way of showing our appreciation. with rewards of all shapes and sizes. [ cheers ] are we actually going? yes!! and once in a lifetime moments. two tickets to nascar! yes! find rewards like these and so many more in the xfinity app. while wayfair is installing your new refrigerator and hauling away your old one. you're binging the latest true crime drama. while t