miller. i spoke to miller about trying to put together some draft remarks for jan 7th, that we are gonna present to the president to try to say, we think it's important to further call for de-escalation. >> from what i understood at the time, and from what the reports were coming in, there is a large concern of the 25th amendment potentially being invoked, and there are concerns about what would happen in the senate, if it was that the 25th amendment was invoked. so, the primary reason that i had heard other than, you know, we do not know enough on the sixth, we need to get a stronger message out there and condemn this. this will be our legacy. there were second reasons about, think about what might happen in the final 15 days of your presidency, if we don't do this. there's already talks about invoking the 25th amendment. you need this as cover. >> do you recognize what this is? >> it looks like a copy of a draft, or the remarks for that. >> and as you can see throughout the document, there are lines crossed out. there are some words added in. do you recognize the handwriting? >> it looks like my father's handwriting. >> in my view, he needed to express very clearly that the people who committed violent acts and went into the capitol, did what they did, should be prosecuted, and should be arrested. >> it looks like, here, he crossed out that he was directing the department of justice to ensure a lawbreakers are prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law. we must send a clear message not with mercy but with justice. legal consequences must be swept in from. do you know why he wanted that crossed out? >> i don't know. >> and about the use of force -- they did not represent him or the -- its political views in any form or fashion. >> he also has crossed out, i want to be very clear, you do not represent me. you do not represent our movement. do you know why he crossed that language out of the statement? >> i don't know. >> can you describe a bit more about what mr. kushner was asking you to do? >> i don't remember if it was a video message or a speech he was gonna give, or something, but i know people were deciding like what he should say, or what he should do. and then, i knew since i'm always with him that, hey, if you ask me my your opinion, try to nudge this along, this will help everything cool down. >> walking along with way? what does that mean? >> to make sure he delivers the speech, or whatever it was. i don't know if it was a video, or speech, or something. it was within a few days of after january 6th. >> the implications of the president was in some ways reluctant to give that speech? >> yeah. >> okay, what do you base that on? >> the fact that somebody has to tell me to not get along. >> so, by all accounts from some of the people closest to donald trump, essentially that guy, that last guy is kind of his body man, with him all the time. he didn't want to say anything at all the day after the insurrection. now, of course, we knew that the ex presidents response in the wake of the sixth was negligent, irresponsible, dangerous. the committee has shown it was even worse than many you mentioned at the time, right? and while the next generous expiring isn't until september, we may see new information like this latest video, trickle out from members of the committee. just today, for example, committee member congressman kinzinger of illinois called my colleague andrea mitchell, the committees open to subpoenaing the wife of supreme court justice, clarence thomas, ginni thomas, for her role in plotting trump's attmepted coup. >> ginni thomas started on an interest. we have a few pieces of evidence that we have seen, and then it just grew particularly some of the eastern memos, those conversations reaching out to state electors. we want to have a voluntary conversation, you know, come in, she said i think somewhere in the media that she was eager to talk to the committee. that is it. the committee is saying, if we need a subpoena, we will. but we prefer to just find out what she knows. >> today, we also got some huge news, just in the last few hours. because we learned that mike pence's former chief of staff, marc short, testified before a grand jury in the department of justices separate probe into the insurrection last friday. short is perhaps the highest profile trump white house official who testified so far, at least as far as we are aware. the grand jury, also reportedly heard from pence's top legal adviser, a man by the name of greg jacob, who you may recognize who previously testified before the january six committee. he had a big sort of showdown with eastman, about pence's ability of unilaterally changing the election. their testimony signals the attorney general's investigation, and the department of justice investigation which has been quite unfolding in the background, and has further expanded its scope, from the actual insurrection itself, and the people that were in the building, to the plotting of the coup attempt. democratic congresswoman elaine luria of virginia sits on the january six committee, and joins me now. congresswoman, let me just start on that news. obviously, i know these are completely parallel tracks, and you have no special vision into whatever the department of justice is into. but given the fact that your investigation has made public the role of greg jacob in resisting the eastman legal theory, which would've essentially 100 american democracy. are you encouraged by the fact that short and jacob, high-ranking officials, have now given sworn testimony before a grand jury, through the doj? >> well, like you said, as the committee and select committee and congress, we have no direct knowledge or involvement in the investigations that are being carried out by the department of justice. but this goes much closer to the top than what we have previously seen, with you know, defendants who are accused of trespassing and violence and seditious conspiracy. i look at it like concentric circles. the department just feels like it's starting to be outside, and working their way in. just how far they worked their way in? we don't know, but this is certainly an indicator, they are ratcheting up the level of their investigation, and that is, you know, encroaching from outside perspective, of course, the committee continues on a separate track, as a congressional committee. >> to that separate track, this new testimony today, we hadn't seen this before. it was sort of a new method of delivering testimony from the committee. i thought it was quite interesting, particularly the sort of corroborating but testimony of people around the ex president, about his reluctance to get that general seventh address. how did this come about? why did you release it this way? >> well, there's so much that we've heard from witnesses, so much more of the story to tell. and over the course of eight hearings, you know, probably about 18 to 20 hours that we've had an opportunity to present information to the public, we are just not able to get everything into that. so this is really additional information that explains that speech on january 7th, the one where we show the president, who really couldn't bring himself to say the words, the election is over. but this gave additional detail, you know, what went into the speech. it's really enlightening to me, the parts that he crossed out, and we want to make sure that information, because it provides amplifying details on what we shared in the hearing. >> i want to also ask about the ginni thomas question, because there's been some new circulating on that, and some various committee members giving their thoughts. i want to show what the vice chair of the committee, liz cheney, had to say about ginni thomas yesterday. take a listen. >> the committee is engaged with our council. we certainly hope that she will agree to come in voluntarily. but the committee is fully prepared to contemplate to spin, if she does not. but now, i hope it doesn't get to that. i hope she will come in voluntarily we have certainly spoken with numbers of people, who are similarly situated in terms of the discussions that she was having, that you've mentioned. so, it's very important for us to speak with her, and as i said, i hope she will agree to do so, voluntarily. but i'm sure we will contemplate a subpoena if she want. >> congresswoman, do you share that desire to hear from ginni thomas, given what we know about her involvement in all of this? >> i do. and just like liz cheney said, she made indications that he was gonna come forward and talk to the committee. if necessary, to go to that step, we will issue a subpoena, so -- [inaudible] >> i'm sorry, i'm sorry, i thought we lost you for a moment there, congresswoman. i guess, finally, the question is, where are things right now? i think there was a sense that you were gonna kind of wrap up things. that you had a very successful investigation. you talked to all these people, you got all these documents. the really wasn't a ton who had sort of invaded the grasp of the committee, steve bannon being a notable perception, of course, he is now facing sentencing for that evasion. but it also seems that a bunch of new things really happened, been uncovered, last 46 weeks. how do you characterize where the investigation stands right now? >> well, i would say that at the outset we came up with this framework by which we were gonna lay out the facts. as you saw, we did the eight hearings, after an extra one in there when breaking information came that we thought was urgent to get out to the public. before we started, these so many more people have been coming forward, we have received so much more information, just volumes and volumes of information. even more leads that we need to follow. what i will say with that is that the investigation itself is continuing to accelerate. in fact, [inaudible] really also focusing on our works of producing reports and the recommendations, which this committee prevents -- >> all right -- >> so much more information coming in [inaudible] >> congresswoman, elaine laureate, thank you so much for making some time for us tonight, i appreciate it. all eyes are on the apartment of justice, now merrick garland is apparently feeling the pressure to pick up the pace. a reporter who broke that story joins me next. 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nope. advanced security that helps protect your devices in and out of the home. i mean, can i have a bite? only from xfinity. nah. unbeatable internet. made to do anything so you can do anything. one of the ongoing investigations into donald trump's attempts to overturn the 2020 presidential election is happening right now in fulton county, georgia. we know that letters were sent out to georgia republicans last week, letting them know they could be indicted for their role in the fake electors scheme. rudy giuliani, trump's personal lawyer, has been ordered to testify in front of that fulton county special grand jury next month. we also know that georgia republican governor brian kemp was scheduled to testify today before the same grand jury. we are now learning that that georgia investigation, along with the efforts of the january 6th committee, are putting the pressure on the department of justice. joining me now is a new york times reporter who has been reporting on this, michael schmidt. michael, your piece was illuminating in a lot of ways, one of them, when i saw the georgia fulton county da was investigating the fake electors, i thought, well we know the feds are looking into that too. that's the first place where we see some sort of venn diagram overlap. what does that mean inside the justice department? >> well i think the question and issue that has arisen out of the hearings is that, why is it that the congressional committee seems so far ahead and the prosecutor in atlanta seems so far ahead? it looks like some of that has to do with the methodical nature of the justice department. the justice department is one -- like a tank. takes a long time for them to move their gaze. but once they get on a target, they don't let go, in an effort to destroy it or get the bottom of it. but there has been a lot of frustration, i think, or misunderstanding about the justice department from, you know, folks on capitol hill. from average americans who are watching these hearings and saying, well, what's being done about this? why is it that we are hearing from this committee first about this? what has gone on? garland had to address this last week. he addressed it publicly. basically saying, you know, the gears of justice are the gears of justice that moves slowly. they move secretly. they are not down in public view. we are not gonna be out there publicly discussing this. the public had sort of been familiar with these investigations that have looked at high-profile people. the fbi confirmed that it was investigating hillary clinton back in 2015. the fbi director went before congress in 2017 to lay out to the public that they were investigating this. but they are trying to explain to the public why it is that there may not have been a lot of action that has been seen on this compared to the other investigations. >> so you're right about these two lines of inquiry that we can glean from the publicly available information that we have. they are not making stations, subpoenas, search warrants, things like that. subpoenas and search warrants, the department has made it clear that it's pursuing at least two related lines of inquiry that could lead to mr. trump. one centers on those so-called fake electors. the other lines of justice department inquiry centered on the effort by a trump era justice department official, jeffrey clark, to pressure georgia officials not to certify the states election results. now today, we get this news which strikes me as an honest news, that marc short and greg jacobs, to individually testified to the committee and very high ranking, the highest ranking, you know, people in pence world, essentially. they went before a federal grand jury on friday. how significant is that do you think? >> i think very significant. because it starts to answer the question, what's the justice department doing? >> right. >> the justice department is investigating what went on in the lead up to january 6th. so incessantly they want to talk to the two people who were directly advising the vice president. we are not just helping council him, but we're winces to the instances in which johnny eastman and donald trump were trying to pressure mike pence to take the certification into their own hands. they were witnesses to that. they saw that. they know what was going on. they can provide detailed insider firsthand accounts of what, of how pence was responding as trump and eastman were giving this bogus legal, you know, stuff about how he could get the certification. either send it back to the states or, you know, pick trump as the next president. that is a significant move forward, because it shows that the departments investigation has moved into the tier of people who were directly around trump in the scary period of time. >> right. yeah, i was -- those folks going to talk to a grand jury. they are not doing it for their health, that is not an early in the investigation kind of thing. that is, you are bringing them there because you want to get something out of them. you also note this about fani willis, the fulton county da, you notice the -- snow into play here, but what it means to the justice department and others that this investigation is happening. she is, you know, sent the starry letter to those fake electors, including a state senator named brett jones. the republican candidate for lieutenant governor of georgia. he could face indictment on monday. a judge in spirit court barred her from pursuing a case against mr. johns because she had headlined a june fund-raiser for her democratic rival -- one of 16 pro trump alternate electors in georgia. i thought that is interesting, just because obviously fani willis is a more easier political target i would imagine for people that want to defend trump, and perhaps the department of justice might be as these investigations go forward? >> look, being a local prosecutor is just a different thing then being a u.s. attorney or working out of the justice department in washington. you know, at times, a lot of local prosecutors are elected and, you know, folks of the justice department are appointed or their career prosecutors. so, it's just, there are different sort of. you know, issues that local prosecutors have to come into because they are more receptive to their local community. a judge down in atlanta had criticized her for doing so many interviews on television about this investigation. there are less restrictions on local prosecutors about how much they can talk and go on about this stuff. it just sets up a different thing. it just shows their investigation looks really like it's moving ahead. there's also a lot of news but it's kicking up. >> all right, michael schmidt, new york times, thank you so much. coming up, the republican race to the bottom as potential 2024 candidates spend the weekend try to out trump each other. that is next. that is next that is next ess check out angi.com today. angi... and done. flowers are fighters. that's why the alzheimer's association walk to end alzheimer's is full of them. because flowers find a way to break through. just like we will. join the fight at alz.org/walk ♪ ♪ ♪ >> when you talk about the absolute superstars of the conservative movement right now, the fact that ted cruz is one of them, well, that's how the podcaster from texas was introduced at the big turning point usa festival of their genes awesomeness this weekend. amid all the loud music, of course, donald trump influence can be felt merely everywhere. this conservative conference. despite a lot of recent talk about the ex president starting to lose his grip on the republican party. you've probably seen some of these headlines. and i have to say, i do think there's some truth to that. back in 2016, the thing that made donald trump truly unique in the republican party was that he was just an enormous jerk all the time. no one else was doing that. the base ate it up. >> so, i'm looking at little bank when i say, man, there's something happening with him. and he is like melting. >> how about, cruz, lying dead. he's a liar. >> i see rick perry the other day, and he's so, you know, he's doing very poorly in the polls. he put glasses on so people think he's smart. and it just doesn't work. and i'm watching these guys like jeb, low energy jeb bush. your father clearly asleep looking at him. >>, now politicians generally, in the time that i've covered politics, not all of them, but most, they just tried not to be jerks, like the goal was to get as many people to vote for you as possible. people who find you likable and electable. and so, at first, i think people in the profession republican politics could not get their hands around the idea that this could be a successful method. but it worked for donald trump, obviously. and now, it's basically become like the core rule of the movement, can be antisocial, or being a troll, troll conservatism is conservatism more or less, and that is on full display at turning point usa's preposterous light show. >> i talked to a student recently in one of our woke college campuses, and she had said she's required in every class to introduce herself. and to give her pronouns. well, i am ted cruz and my pronoun is kiss my ass. >> have you watched these pro abortion, pro murder rallies? the people are just disgusting! like, why is it that the woman with the least likelihood of getting pregnant, are the ones most worried about having abortions? nobody wants to impregnate you, if you look like a thumb! >>, now it's worth noting, the congressman there, talking about women's, looks under investigation by the justice department, the fbi, we believe, reportedly, for allegedly paying for sex with a minor. now, perhaps, the long republican was found success by moving a little bit away from the trump method, or at least doing it with a certain touches of governor ron desantis. and look, his policies are terrible, and really dangerous, as governor of florida. but he also says things that a savvy politician might say, rather than calling woman who support abortion rights, ugly, he stares up, cares to present a lighter more insidious touch. >> i will have math books sent to my department of education for reviewing these textbooks. and they will do things like woke matt. and i'm thinking to myself, to plus two equals four. it's not two-plus-two, well, let's have a struggle session over that, how do you feel about it. now, there is a right answer here, and it's not about injecting ideology in the concepts like math's. so what we do with the department of education is we sent the books back. these textbook companies and no other choice, but to take the woke out, and send us back normal math books. d so, we are winning. >> of course, the question is whether the base not once yet run desantis is offering, or what donald trump is? civil rights cheryl eiffel summed up very well this sort of desire, i think you see it on display with matt gaetz and others, that what donald trump offered was the freedom to be your worst self, and it turns out, many americans have been waiting for that opportunity. i've been thinking about that, although many in the party are not copying him, trump is the founder of that particular style of conservative politics, at least in this era. but lately, the ex president seems to be so caught up in his own grievances. he's lost a bit of his ability to successfully pander to his supporters grievances. we saw how this resulted at the turning point usa conference. the trump applause lineup, right after this. your projects done right . with angi, you can connect with and see ratings and reviews. and when you book and pay throug you're covered by our happiness check out angi.com today. angi... and done. >> the cracks in donald trump's iron grip over the republican party were visible this weekend, when this line, intended to rile up the crowd of conservative turning point usa conference, was instead met with crickets. >> a friend of mine recently said that i was the most persecuted person in the history of our country, me, the most persecuted. i never thought of that. i never had time. i was always fighting with these people that were trying to persecute me. i didn't have time to think about being persecuted because i was fighting persecution. >> just no reaction whatsoever from the crowd to the ex president's whining there. so, donald trump's grievance politics become too self absorbed for his base. tim millerpokesman, author of why we did it: a traveler from the republican road to hell. and he joins me now. i thought that moment encapsulated a lot. and you've seen it borne out in some of focus groups, some of the polling as well. thing if it's your grievances he's into. and it's another, not just his own grievances. and it does seem a little bit of a distinction there. >> yeah, and this was always something that it's like, this battle within donald trump himself. this isn't the person that you got a little wrapped around the acts on his own complaints, and winding out of the trail. he always was good at reading the crowd, some, a lot of times, we recognize that the crowd liked some of his most deplorable tricks, and then continued to promote them. that's how we got the muslim ban, for example. look, the focus groups on this, these are data points, and it's showing that it's possible that he is losing the excitement level with the crowd. but we've all been here before. the question is, can