joining us now, michael schmidt washington correspondent from "the new york times" and one of the reporters who broke the story. michael, thank you very much for being with us tonight. talk me through the time line here. what is it looking like? >> so we know that in recent weeks, before the appointment of the special counsel, thomas wyndham, the lead investigators on the january 6th inquiry, the one looking at whether trump broke the law when he, and his allies, turned, overturned the election, reached out to pence's said, to say that they wanted to talk to him. now, it will be many weeks, if not months, before the government hears from pence, because pence will have to be subpoenaed and trump will try and stop this. trump will try to assert executive privilege. this is a play that he has run before, where he has tried to use these claims to stop former top white house aides from speaking with investigators. so far, for trump, this has not worked. but it has slowed the process. and when you have someone like a vice president and you have questions of privilege, that a former president is t

joining us, now michael schmidt, washington correspondent for the new york times. and one of the reporters who broke this story. michael, thank you so much for being with us tonight. talk me through the timeline here. what is it looking like? >> so, we know that in recent weeks, before the appointment of the special counsel, thomas windham, the lead investigator on the january 6th investigation. the one looking at whether trump broke the law when he and his allies tried to overturn the election reached down to pence's side to say that they wanted to talk to him. now, it will be many weeks if not months before the government hears from pence. subpoenaed. trump will try to assert his exe before where he has tried to use these cl top white house so far for trump, t a vice p questions of privilege tha former president is trying to assert, it will become a very formalized process. this is not just something where investigators or fbi agents could sit down with pence and do a quick interview. this will be something that there is a lot of back and forth in. my guess is tha

on the phone with us is "new york times" washington correspondent michael schmidt who broke that storylong with former federal prosecutor and msnbc legal analyst paul butler as well. michael, let me start you with on this one. a couple of questions here. what does the d.o.j. want to know first from the former vice president? why now? and what does the d.o.j. realistically is going to happen? >> a very important witness in the january 6th investigation, he was the pressure point, the direct target of donald trump's effort to overturn the election. donald trump thought that mike pence, that mike pence could take the election basically into his hands, and decide which votes to count when he certified the election on january 6th. the justice department is conducting an investigation into january 6th, the criminal investigation, to determine whether anyone broke the law. we know that that investigation is now under the special counsel jack smith. we know that before mr. smith was appointed, one of the top prosecutors on the january 6th investigation reached out to the defense side, to say t

michael schmidt at the new york times reporting in july thought of all the tens of millions of taxpayersw, to the people donald trump hated most got picked, supposedly at random, for an audit so invasive that tax lawyers joke about it as an autopsy without the benefit of that. that was the times reporting back in july. now, that already troubling story has gotten significantly worse. trump's longest serving chief of staff, john kelly, but when you see holding the door for his boss here, john kelly now tells the new york times that yes, those audits were instigated because trump asked for them. quote, yes, trump wanted irs investigations of -- john kelly telling reporter michael schmidt -- i would say it's important to get, it's illegal, it's against their integrity, and the irs knows what it's doing, and it's not a good book. trump responded, yeah, but the writing back -- bad things about me. the former president is denying these allegations from john kelly, a spokesperson for the former president called john kelly today a psycho. that's what the spokesperson said, he's a psycho. that's

. >> i also want to bring in "new york times" washington correspondent michael schmidt and nbc's vaughnd is here as well. michael, let me start just w-just sort of the big picture, because you have covered both of these that are going to be a part of this case. obviously mar-a-lago, the documents case, but also the key aspects of the 1/6 case, specifically the overturning of the 2020 election, and get your reaction to the special counsel, and where you think this is headed now. >> well, i thought it was interesting how the attorney general used the word obstruction more than once, in regards to these investigations. we knew that in regards to mar-a-lago, that was something that they were looking at. if i heard the attorney general correctly, he said that that was also something that was being looked at in terms of january 6th. that is something that i had not, i don't believe, i had been reported and that we knew about. i think the best way to think about the january 6th part of it is that this special counsel will be looking at everyone who is essentially involved in january 6th, and o

new york times" and joining us by phone is a reporter who has broken the news, correspondent michael schmidtou know? >> we know that in recent weeks, the justice department reached out to former vice president pence's representative, because they want to question him in connection with the january 6th investigation into trump. this was the first outreach that came from the department through the pence team, and pence had not been subpoenaed yet, but sort of the first step in trying to turn pence into a witness against trump in that investigation. this could take a long time to play out. trump has tried to invoke and use executive privilege to slow and stop former white house officials from testifying against him. that is probably something he would try to do here. he has not been successful in stopping that so far. i think among other aides, but he has been able to slow the process. pence is said to be considering the request from the department, looking at it differently than the congressional investigation of january 6th, which he had said, he said in interviews last week, for his book, th

michael schmidt testified that somehow two of the people donald trump hated most got picked supposedly an audit that was so specific that it was like an autopsy after death. john kelly now tells the the "new york times" that, yes, those audit were instigated because trump asked for them. he wanted investigations of his foes. john kelly saying "i would say it's inappropriate, it's illegal and the irs knows what it's doing and it's no the a good idea." kelly responded, yeah, but they're writing bad things about me. for the record, the former president is denying these allegations from john kelly. a spokesperson for the former president called john kelly today a psycho. that's what the spokesperson said, he's a psycho. why did you pick a psycho to be your longest serving chief of staff? but this is a big deal and a potentially criminally big deal for anybody at the irs who might have gone along with this kind of improper pressure and also for donald trump if he in fact asked for this sort of thing to be done. it is a federal crime for anyone, including the president, to request even indir

michael schmidt, "new york times" national correspondent and msnbc national security contributor.versation. co-founder of the lincoln project as well as the host of the "enemies list" pod cast. and myles tailer's here, former chief of staff at the department of homeland security and co-founder of the political party forward. mike schmidt, take me through what you're reporting. >> so what we were able to do is learn from john kelly about how donald trump was -- what he was doing and saying behind closed doors about how he wanted to use the irs or the justice department for revoking the security clearances of people that were saying and doing things in the media or publicly that embarrassed the president and the president thought were his enemies. we know that donald trump wanted to use his justice department against people. we know that he's wanted to have the security clearances of former intelligence officials who had been critical of him revoked. but we know far less and had known far less about what trump was saying or had said at different times about the irs. and we had learn

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michael's -- my whole house is decked out already. carl: the wonderful world of disney magical holiday celebration is on saturday night right here on abc. carl schmidt news. ama: once again you can catch the wonderful world of disney magical holiday celebration this sunday november 27 starting at 8:00 p.m. on abc7. ♪music playing♪ ♪♪ ♪♪ ♪♪ ♪♪ nothing brings the pack together like a trip to great wolf lodge. now open in northern california. folks, it looks like we're gonna have to land this big old bird like a trip to great wolf lodge. earlier than expected because it's the xfinity black friday sale. stream your heart out with the ultimate streamer setup when you get internet with unlimited data for 55 dollars a month. plus get a free flex 4k streaming box. oh my! and for a limited time, get hbo max included for 1 year. even you in 22c. flight attendants, prepare for streaming. drop everything and get to the xfinity black friday sale. click, call or visit a store today. ama: here on abc7 we have had college football games all day long, but there is a different football drawing attention, soccer. lena howland found bars packed. lena: booked out weeks