so he says, christina bobb, the part of the transcript that he testifies to, senator graham was saying, get me your information, get me five dead voters, give me an example of illegal voting. give me a small snapshot that i can take and champion, and i think that senator graham is savvy enough to know that, she would never be able to produce five dead voters, so he was saying, i am happy to be a champion, knowing that that would not happen. >> i don't know if i interpret that. that is a reasonable interpretation. you can also be saying, just give me anything, and i will be willing to go out and defend donald trump, but it really goes to your point a minute ago about accountability. obviously, criminal liability is one form of accountability, but as the committee itself noted in the report, it's not the only form of accountability, and they talk about sanctions against lawyers who were involved in the effort to overturn the election. where they are in conspicuously silent is what if any sanctions should there be four members of congress who participated in this? i think charlie was part

they were even, i think, the way i interpret what senator graham was saying to christina bobb here is that he was basically calling her bluff. so he says, christina bobb, the part of the transcript she testifies to, senator graham was saying get me your information. just give me five dead voters. give me, you know, an example of illegal voting. give me a very small snapshot i can take and champion. i think senator graham is savvy enough to know she would never be able to produce five dead voters. so he was saying, i'm happy to be your champion knowing that wasn't going to happen. >> that is a reasonable interpretation. it could also be him just saying just give me anything and i would be willing to go out and defend donald trump. it really goes to your point from a minute ago about accountability. obviously, criminal liability is one form of accountability but as the committee, itself noted in the report, it is not the only form of accountability. and they talk about disbarment or sanctions against lawyers who are involved in the effort to overturn the election where they are conspicu

this is from christina bobb. who's now become infamous for her role in the mar-a-lago investigation. question, do you remember senator lindsey graham reaching out to the legal team for information about dead voters in georgia? christina bobb, yeah, i did we were in meadows office, and graham was like, oh, i love to support the cause. i think it would be great to, you know, really show all the fraud. send me a memo and show me what information you have got. i'll champion it. senator graham was saying, get your information. just give me five dead voters. give me, you know, an example of illegals. just give me a very small snapshot that i can take and champion. i thought of sheamus and ruby freeman when i saw. this all the extraordinary efforts that ran deep, ran to the highest levels of the republican party. to manufacture fog that was never their, never their choice. >> yeah, this doesn't happen in a vacuum, nicole, for anyone that's worked particularly in the deep south doing election law for a period of decades.

i think christina bobb can be spending some quality time in the grand jury at the federal prosecutors. and what that exposes there, what you just read, alicia, is that lindsey graham was pretty enthusiastic about joining trump's efforts to overturn the elections result. and when you hear things from senator lindsey graham lag, hey, find me five dead people who voted. isn't that reminiscent of donald trump telling brad raffensperger, secretary of state down in georgia, while -- 11,780 votes. i maintain, lindsey graham has some real problems in connection with that. -- because brad raffensperger himself are republicans, these calls that i was taking from lindsey graham. i was interpreting what he was saying. as him asking me to toss out lawfully asked ballots. it really feels more and more like lindsey graham was unenthusiastic participant and donald trump's team. >> cynthia, i want you to take a listen to what representative adam schiff said tonight about what he thinks should happen to trump's enabler's, like -- take a listen. >> those that should be broke the law should be prosecuted

testimony transcripts from 19 witnesses, including trump's son donald trump jr., trump attorney christina bobb, kimberly guilfoyle, stephen miller and former white house press secretary stephanie grisham. there's one key thing that sticks out, and that's the role of mark meadows. he was, of course, trump's chief of staff on january 6th and the closest person to the president throughout that day. and multiple witnesses recounting texting meadows during the insurrection, desperately asking meadows to persuade trump to condemn the violence. sara murray is with us now. you've been pouring over donald trump's tran scripts and every other one, too. what have you found so far? >> we've had a whole team that is digging into this today but the donald trump jr. transcripts are interesting, because he was texting mark meadows while the riot was unfolding. now, he is saying to mark meadows, talking about his dad, they will try to eff his liar legacy on this if it gets worse. so, he's imploring mark meadows to get his dad to do something and call off the rioters as the attack is unfolding. the other thing

one of them comes from christina bobb, the lawyer working with donald trump. she remembered a meeting where mark meadows met with senator lindy graham and graham said in christina bobb's telling just give me five dead voters. give me you know an example of illegals voting. just give me a very small snapshot i can take and champion so people like lindsey graham at the time after the election were very interested in trying to help trump advance this myth of voter fraud. graham ultimately didn't do anything with the information that the campaign provided because it was so implausible. >> what else stood out to you as you were going through these transcripts? >> there's one of the things that you keep seeing in these transcripts is there is a deep bench of people in the white house who are witnessing all kinds of conversations. the white house was really consumed with what was happening, what donald trump wanted. one of the things, one of the people that spoke to the committee, a transcript that was released yesterday was stephanie grishams the former chief of sta

this is from a transcript with an interview with christina bobb who is a member of trump's legal timeshe is recounting a conversation she had with the senator. and the senator says just give me five dead votes. give me, you know, an example of illegals voting. just give me a very small snapshot that i can take and champion. and this of course interesting because you didn't need five dead votes to overturn the election. you needed a whole lot more votes for donald trump to be the victor in this. but what lindsey graham is essentially saying is give me something symbolic that i can go out there and talk about and use in donald trump's favor. >> yeah so, i can continue to sow doubt about the election results. sara murray, stay with us. i want to bring in cnn contributor john dean, former white house council for president nixon and cnn political contributor david urban, a republican strategist and former trump campaign adviser. all right, so david, you heard sara lay it out. we all know the former president and his allies were obsessed with finding voter fraud. but now we're learning more

nick, then christina bobb did produce something and sent it other to senator graham. and the title of it was "chairman graham dead votes memo for your consideration." but strangely, he never did do it. so, obviously there was no there there. >> he did do part of it. let's look at what happened afterwards. in early -- i guess it was in december, a couple weeks before donald trump made that famous january 2nd call to brad raffensperger, the secretary of state of georgia, lindsey graham was in there talking about the same things with brad raffensperger. he was trying to pressure him. it wasn't the dead voters this time. it was the people who didn't really sign the absentee ballots, which was another issue that donald trump was harping on that he knew was false, that he also raised with brad raffensperger after it didn't work with lindsey graham. so, i don't think lindsey graham is necessarily an innocent player here. i mean, he jumped right in and called up brad raffensperger and gave him the same pitch that later was repeated almost verbatim by donald trump. and it's al

we also had christina bobb who told the committee senator lindsey graham said in a meeting with former chief of staff mark meadows and other white house officials days before the insurrection, just give me five dead voters, give me an example of illegals voting. a small snapshot i can take and champion. end quote. and former communications director stephanie grisham told the committee even if the secret service had approved it, trump wouldn't have marched to the capitol, saying, quote, i just know him. he's afraid of people. but even one week later, as we are still piecing together all of this new information, there are a lot of unanswered legal questions. what does it all mean for the doj, who else is implicated, and when donald trump finally be held to account? joining me now is david jolly, a former republican and a former republican congressman. charles coleman jr., civil rights attorney, msnbc legal analyst, and host of charles coleman podcast, and hugo lowell, political investigative reporter for the guardian. hugo, i want to start with you because you have been following this so

we also had christina bobb who told the committee that's lindsey graham said in a meeting with formerchief of staff mark meadows and former officials, days before the insurrection, quote just give me five dead voters. give me an examples of illegals voting. just give me a small snapshot that i can take and champion. and quote. former communication director stephanie grisham told the committee that even if the secret service had approved, it trump would not have march the capital. saying quote, i just know him. he is afraid of people. but even one week later as we are still piecing together all the new information, there are a lot of unanswered legal questions. what does all mean for the doj, who else is implicated, and will donald trump finally be held to account? joining me now is david jolly, a former republican and a former republican congressman. charles coleman junior, civil rights attorney, msnbc legal analyst, and host of charles cohen podcast and -- political investigator reporter for the guardian. i want to start with you, you have been following this so closely, you've been

renato, one of the new pieces of information that we're getting is from actually the transcript of christina bobb, who is relaying to the committee in her testimony some conversations that she had with senator lindsey graham who, as you know, is a close ally of former president trump's and this seems to kind of speak to desire on the part of so many people around trump to find fraud where there was none. christina says that lindsey graham tells her to just give me five dead voters, give me -- i'm sorry. that graham told meadows this, but she told the committee, give me five dead voters, find an example of legal's voting. give me a small snapshot, he says, of anything that he can take and champion in order to find -- in order to demonstrate evidence of fraud and as we know, there was no evidence of fraud but what does it tell you that someone like a sitting senator lindsey graham was basically begging for examples of anything that would prove these baseless claims that the election was stolen? >> yeah, it certainly makes it look like something i think we already knew is that he was on team trump a

we also got some interesting revelations from the christina bobb transcript. she was member of trump's legal team. she is recounting a conversation she had with south carolina senator lindsey graham, who was very eager apparently to help the trump team with their claims of election fraud. so in their recollection, the senator said to her just give me five dead voters. give me an example of illegals voting. just give me a very small snapshot that i can take and champion. now obviously a small snapshot, five dead voter, that was not going swing the election into donald trump's favor, but that's what the senator was looking for to be able to out the publicly. after the rioters stormed the capitol, senator lindsey graham eventually voted to confirm the election results. >> we're also learning the former first lady melania trump didn't exactly trust the then president's inner circle. tell us about that. >> yeah. this is from the transcript with stephanie grisham, who is of course a close aide to melania trump, the former first lady. and in this transcript, stephani

we are also learning from another transcript, with an interview with trump attorney, christina bobb,hat senator lindsey graham and mark meadows discussed ways that graham could help amplify these false claims of election fraud. graham told meadows that he only needed, quote, five dead voters -- he just needed a little bit of information that he could latch onto and then amplify these claims. now there is also additional testimony from stephanie grisham, a top aide to former president trump and also to his wife melania. stephanie grisham testified that the first lady did not trust mark meadows. she was concerned that he was not giving her husband the best advice, that he was telling him what he wanted to hear. she also had concerns about some of his attorneys, including sydney powell, -- ellis and also rudy giuliani. two years later, based on what we have under this investigation and from it ease transcripts, those concerns appear to be well founded. now all of these transcripts and the evidence gathered by the committee will go to special counsel jack smith, who will have to determin

christina bobb, yeah, i did. we were in meadows' office and graham was like oh, i'd love to support the cause,ik i think it would bee, great to, you know, really show all the fraud. send me a memo and show me, you know, what information you have got. i'llor champion it. senator graham was saying get your information. justyo give me five dead voters. givead me, you know, an examplef illegals voting. just give me a very small snapshot that i can take and champion. i thought of ruby freeman when i saw that and all of the extraordinary effort, the highest levels of the republican party, to manufacture fraud thac wasy, never there, joyce. >> and so this doesn't happen in a vacuum, for anyone who has worked particularly in the deep south, doing election law, for a period of decades, these are the same sorts of allegations that are made in every election, dead people are voting, people who are detitled to vote are voting and that's why democrats are winning, you hear those claims of fraud persistently, and very often re

we learned about his efforts in the transcript from the former president's lawyer christina bobb.fied that lindsey graham told, again, mark meadows that graham would become a champion of the president's fraud claims, all he needed was, quote, five dead voters. she recalls he he said, "give me, you know, an example of illegals voting. just give me a very small snapshot that i can take and champion." and this exchange, wolf, came just a few days before january 6th. but it shows the white house was trying to get some high-profile allies to amplify these false claims. but here's the kicker. his legal team actually followed up with graham. they gave him a memo titled "chairman graham dead votes memo. for your consideration." bobb testified graham didn't do anything with that. graham's office has not responded to our request for comment. but one of the big themes that we've taken away over the past week in all of these transcripts, wolf, is that all roads go through the former chief of staff mark meadows. a lot of this questionable conduct, these schemes that they were hatching. everyth

transcripts about what lindsey graham, senator lindsey graham was doing behind the scenes, so christina bobb testifies to senator graham saying, well, get me your information, just give me 5 that voters, give me an example of illegal voting, give me a small snapshot that i can take and champion. what i hear here, and i am interested in your thoughts, this is lindsey graham playing them. this is lindsey graham saying, i am happy to go out and talk about how dead people voted. if you just give me a few examples, and knowing, i think you knew, that doesn't never come. >> i do think, alison, it's senator graham standpoint -- i will not do it just based on no facts, no representation, only your word and representation. give me anything. politicians do the, lawyers do that all the time, where they take some facts, something they can hang their hat on and kind of run with it and blow it up a bit. i think that is what senator graham is going to do, the subtle message in their. if you got nothing, leave me out of this, because i will not go out there and walk the plank and give the american public in

the fbi found hundreds of documents when they conducted a search in august and that lawyer, christina bobb, now has had to seek getting a lawyer as a result of all of this. >> they found classified documents not only at mar-a-lago, but at a storage facility and elsewhere, trump facilities as well. >> exactly. and, again, part of this dispute has been the justice department's insistence that there were additional documents missing. so in recent weeks, over thanksgiving, the trump team did hire their own team to do a search at four additional properties and they did find two additional classified documents at a storage facility. so the question is, is this all? is this all that there is? and the justice department seems to believe that it may not be. >> well, we shall see. evan, stay with us. i also want to bring in defense attorney, former federal prosecutor shan wu and cnn's chief political analyst, gloria borger. what's your reaction to this decision not to hold, at least for now, trump in contempt? >> i really think it puts the justice department back in a difficult situation. they can't

christina bobb, a former oan host turned trump lawyer testifying about a conversation involving graham and meadows and others, saying in part, and i'm quoting here, "senator graham was trying to get me your information. just give me five dead voters. give me, you know, an example of an illegal's voting. give me a very small snapshot that i can take and champion." paula reid is "outfront" for us tonight. paula, you have heard the name mark meadows there a few times, but witness after witness after witness the transcript after transcript, meadows' name comes up again and again and seems to be there for everything. >> that's exactly right. and while the committee made a conscious decision to focus its final report on former president trump, it's clear from pouring over these transcripts, dozens and dozens of them, clearly establish the fact that mark meadows was at the center of this multifaceted plan to try to overturn the election. just going through a few examples here. it starts right around the time of the election. mark meadows is the one texting with donald trump jr. about a plan t

he'd rather throw the lawyers under the bus, like he did this christina bobb. was legitimately false. on this show i had said to you i think it was in early september, we need to look because i guarantee you that there are documents out there that has not been returned to nara. >> lo and behold. >> lo and behold. and i don't want to be right about this stuff. people attack me on twitter -- >> get off twitter. >> well, i can't because it's a good forum to continue to express, you know, our side. >> the truth. >> yeah, the truth. >> michael cohen, what do you think happens at the end of the year for donald trump? >> i don't think anything's going to happen through the end of the year. but he knows it's coming. and sometimes the anticipation is worse, you know, than the actual event. waiting for it to happen, waiting for the next raid, waiting for the guys to come knocking on the door with the handcuffs and the charges coming through, he knows it's coming. which is why he's in the panic mode that he's in right now. >> dining with the likes of nick fuentes. >> unbe

or because there's christina bobb and otherlawyers that got involved, did everybody have a little piecend of things that i think can cause delay. but you're absolutely right that there are certainly probable cause here that there is evidence of obstruction of justice. and i think the question just becomes, at what point does the justice department feel that it has enough evidence that it can prove a case beyond a reasonable doubt, which is a higher standard. >> i mean, pete, you have mueller volume two obstruction exhibits style volumes of obstruction here. and the -- the incidents are eerily similar, tell a lawyer to say something that isn't true so that you can do something that isn't legal. it's what he does. why not charge the obstruction case? >> well, i think the wise, exactly what was laid out in volume two, what michael cohen and others have said, it is very difficult when it comes down to the elements of the crime to pin in particular trump down of knowing or saying something. he's not the kind of person that writes on an email, a document, look, i want you to meet to the depar

christina baab regarding senator lindsey graham. tell us about that. >> this is interesting, sara, i will say. baab bobbemembered telling mark meadows that he would love to champion the claims of election fraud and all he would need to do is, quote, five dead voters. she said -- she's quoting graham, give me an example, you know, a little voting, give me a small snapshot that i can take and champion. just give me five dead voters. this exchange came before january 6th but it shows how the south carolina republican was willing to push the false claims of election fraud. and also how the white house was seeking out high-profile politicians. graham testified that actually got a memo titled chairman graham dead votes memo for your consideration. but bobb added he did nothing with that. the senator's office has not responded to comments on that. >> dead votes memo. it would be funny, but we saw what happened on january 6th, so it isn't. paula reid, thank you so much. >>> to ukraine where cities across the country were hit with a barrage of russian missiles on thursday. one official calling it one of the larg