belittles this crime, read what the souther district prosecutor said in th sentencing memo for michae cohen neil -- keep reminding their audienc as i do. the second thing is what are the facts that we are worrie about on michael cohen's credibility. the jury has to decide whether there was any politica motivation by donald trump whe he directed michael cohen to pay $130,000 if donald trump says no it was only about melania, and michae cohen and lots of evidence o evidence i've seen with my own eyes documented evidence it ha a political motivation at th very end of the campaign not t have stormy daniels be reveale and he has got to convince a jury that he had no politica motivation any significant motivation he is guilty so i still think and ask what is th problem that everyone is seein other than let's let a jur decide what or the he tells th truth our experience to date i that those people have seen hi lie and now it is up to 12 people in new york to the sock is he telling the truth. >> i'm not knocking michae cohen's credibility, but let's talk about what he's in fo here donald trump and

he felt pretty strongly abou that again, under oath, it does raise questions about michae cohen. rget, it was not just what happened with stormy daniels and that michael cohen went to prison for it was a lot of other issues one reason was not completel clear because he did not wan to discuss any legal matters he is not an ideal witness but donald trump might as well have said, i expect to b beamed up to mars on tuesday it is out of nowhere my guess is by wednesday w will see where the distric attorney stands. based on what everything has shown, it will likely be a indictment of donald trump >> local, state, and federal law enforcement have securit agencies prepared for th possibility that trump will be indicted as early as this week senior officials familiar with the preparations have told nbc news trump's attorney, joe tacopina, told nbc news that trump will follow normal procedures if it gets to the point of having to surrender t authorities for the da's office kurt, are you worried a trum indictment could derai democratic efforts to focus on legislating and governing? >> i'm no

plus former trump fixer michae cohen revealing exclusively to msnbc a short time ago as well that hec of his named robert castella. a war of words over a potentia trump in

plus former trump fixer michae cohen revealing exclusively to msnbc a short time ago as well that he will be back before th grand jury as a rebuttal witness and nbc news now confirming who he will b rebooting, a critic of his named robert castella. a war of words over a potentia trump indictment in th manhattan da's investigation >> no one is above the law that is the defining principle of the republic and has been the case for 247 years >> it's another example of two tier system. >> it's outrageous, and ther is no too low i can't reach. every time you think he ha bottomed out, he goes even further. >> i think he's building a lot of sympathy for the former president. i think the fact i was wit coffee this morning with folks none of them were big trum supporters and they all said, they felt like he was being attacked >> also this hour, we are just hours away from a meeting that has the u.s. and the world o edge russian president vladimi putin and his chines counterpart, xi jinping, later this hour i will talk to congressman seth moulton about the threat of unified russia and china. as

mone payments made to stormy daniel during donald trump's 2016 campaign trump's formal fixer, michae cohenis a key witness in the probe, testified befor manhattan grand jury today for more than three hours. he still didn't finish his testimony. that guy talks he's expected to retur wednesday to finish and told reporters today, he has this goal >> this is all about accountability, he needs to be counted -- for his dirty deeds. >> should this go to trial you're prepared to testify >> absolutely. with me now former new yor prosecutor and civil right attorney, charles coleman, and stewart stevens. -- his now with the lincoln project. mr. coleman, three hours o testimony, michael cohen i going back for more? what does that tell you? >> it tells me that alvin brag in the manhattan da's office have determined that they ar going to dot every i and crossed every t. they know that - >> that's a lot of letters three hours. >> it is but this is a very big deal. they know that they can' afford to leave any stone on touched when it comes to his testimony and what it is that is at stake >> alvin brag has

, renat mariotti welcome to you both, renato, were you listening to th conversation i had with michae cohenow and if so, your thoughts on his statements and he's going to be a rebutta witness potentially tomorrow i the new york - the manhattan da's case? >> i think it's very interesting. and suggested maybe the lock somebody in as a witness who i not a person of th government's team. so to speak. a lot of times, you are puttin out witnesses before the grand jury that are essentially just building your case occasionally, you'll put a witness in who somebody yo think it's gonna go south. you want to lock in thei testimony so you know thei story in advance let's say the bank robbers girlfriend, that sort of thing in this, case perhaps or somebody they're locking and who said something that wa helpful to the defense and the want to -- show the other side of the grand jury >> they do this so that they have an opportunity for michae cohen to rebut it. it will have to appear and rebut it you citizen to be down there o lease on standby if he needs t be called. >> very interesting. it's an unusual c

and here based on what we have heard publicly from michae cohen and what he pled guilt to, we know thatfo the falsification of the business records was to concea the payments that was donation to the campaign in 2016. had that payment abandoned goe up publicly, it could have damage his political campaig or his personal reputation, or both so concealing can constitute that second crime whic converts this minute - misdemeanor, into a felony so it is a serious crime i don't know that length prison sentence is likely. i'm not sure any priso sentence is likely, although i know that michael cohen did ge three years for this can bin with other crimes. i think a felony conviction fo someone running for presiden will be very damaging to his ability to campaign. >> yeah, i mean jonathan mayer let's remember that michae cohen spent more than a year i prison so on 13 and a half months inside a federal prison an this very case for this hush money payment to storm daniels. he says came from donald trump in the white house, through an intermediary but this coming, i would say this unprecedented for fo

costello, is expected to testify tomorrow this afternoon, in an exclusiv interview with msnbc, michae cohenrmed that he will also be back at the da's offic tomorrow and casey is needed a a rebuttal witness >> this is not about a vendett or about my book revenge this is about donald trump being held accountable for his own dirty deeds, plain and simple i don't want to see anyone, an that includes donald trump indicted, prosecuted, convicted, incarcerated because i fundamentally, or the country, fundamentally disagrees with s much that comes out of his mouth. >> meantime, much of the gop rallied behind trump this afternoon, kur tweeting again that the gop led house will open investigations int what he calls politicall motivated prosecutions the party of law and order not wanting to investigate the investigators it's not jus mccarthy, earlier on abc forme president mike pence als intact the investigation >> i'm taken back at the ide of indicted a former president of the united states if there is a crime wave in ne york city, the fact that the manhattan da thinks that indicting president trump'

apprentice.çó @qiu5a1■and in allÑi of thiád a came out yesterday in a pretuv public way andñr impugned micha cohen'sed. he lied to congress about trump hotel in moscow that he was trying to build. he plea80■ guilty toe1 qñthat. he hasn't beenÑi 100% truthful p that's something trump's lawyers are going tor assuming he'sxd indicted and if there comes a trial they'll be able to attack michael cohen's credibility and have concreteñrr examples. there's a lot of supporting evidence, there's the picture of them together, there's the fact surrogate. >> house speakerw3 mccarthy tod suggested that trump wasn't■óÑi trying to hide hisxd payments t stormy daniels. from your reporting, we know thatxd michael cohen first of a took out a home equity line of credit and then wired to stormy daniels lawyer and thenÑi wired( stormy daniels, is that right in. íók] yes. >> that seems like so%t trying tot(çó hide io%ething. >> yes. >> was itv down those payments? >>5a■ yeah, i mean, we had gott informationfá about the -- we0l didn't get records of the actual payments at the time but we had multiple sources about what hap

way back when thi happened i'm not entirely sure there is a case there people talk a lot about michae cohenfying for three hours, and two that i ask, i there anything about michael cohen's testimony that w wouldn't know at this point? he testified before congress he's got a podcast he has been on this network several time telling the story. he is telling the story to everyone that would listen, so i think we probably know wha those three hours consisted of michael cohen, and i mean no disrespect, has the same problem as every cooperating witness defense attorney i going to get up there, point t him and say, this is someone who is a convicted liar. by the way, he talks about accountability, and, again i'm doing what a defense attorne would say, and i say, ladies and gentlemen, the jury as yourself, would michael cohe have been so concerned about trump's accountability if he himself had never been indicted? would he have had this moral compulsion to out trump and hi alleged crimes the answer to that, obviously, is no. michael cohen never gets indicted he is still trump's best pal so, i think

we don't kno what the criminality of it is, but we know that stormy daniel got a payment, from michae cohenthose reimbursed by donald trump, you make of that what you will. why is this happening? >> look, how it is fair in a general election, not clear. in a republican primary, quinnipiac released a poll yesterday, they thought wa notable, nationally, republica voters, 75% of them said, they have donald trump would be criminally charge, that thos charges should not disqualif him from being the republica nominee for president, 75% they see those polls, we saw those polls, they know wha that means and just like after the mar-a-lago search last august, the public and circled the wagon to come to fentany trump they've propped up the idea of the deep state for years, it's too late to go bac on that, they told everybody they told the republican voters, this is real, it's really hard thing to do a one 80, mike pence to finish this up, mik pence back in the wall stree journal wrote the story abou michael cohen stormy daniels hush money arrangement he called it at the time baseless allegations years

can be the wrap, as i were, on any notion of campaig finance violations even though that's what michae cohen was exactly what he wa found guilty of in federal court. >> yeah, that's a lawyer versu loyal or dispute, cohen versus this new lawyer. if there is an indictment, which as i suspect there wil be, if i'm in this new yor district attorney. that's going to be reviewed in court. and the prosecution is gonna have to prove beyond, reasonable doubt, that michael cohen is saying is right i think that's not tha difficult to lift, quite honestly, these payments wer made right before the 2016 election you have to be an idiot to think that it wasn't gonna benefit your campaign, whe you're paying it at that particular moment in tha particular rush. lawrence, you're absolutel right to say, there's an number of other problems wit the payments, like the tax consequences, because last i checked, paying hundred $30,00 to the porn star you slept wit is not a legal expense >> yes, professor gilles, when you listen to that the accusations laid out about stephen passantino and his representation of cassid

what his former fixer michae cohen told our colleague reverend al sharpton just last october -- ♪ lookt go under it. ♪ ♪ the rocks and the mud. ♪ ♪ can't go over it. ♪ ♪ gotta go through it! ♪ ♪ we're going on a bear hunt.♪ ♪ we're going on a bear hunt.♪ ♪ oh going on a bear hunt!♪ ♪ going on a bear hunt! ♪ ♪ yeah we're going on a ber hunt! ♪ -bear! ♪ going on a bear hunt! ♪ - such a good boy. ♪ going on a bear hunt! ♪ ♪ oh what a beautiful day.♪ [ dog barks ] you want a loan to build a factory in america? you can't do that. this is what we were up against. nobody builds factories in the us anymore. you can't do that. experts claimed you couldn't do what we did. you want to hire workers here in the states? you can't do that. weathertech has been proving them wrong, for over 33 years. building our own factories, employing thousands, and making world-class products, right here in america. because when you buy something made in america...we all win. weathertech. for copd, ask your doctor about breztri. breztri gives you better breathing, symptom improvement, and helps prevent flare-ups. b

-- instead, they decide to tell the public markets and blow th joint up renato, before we go, michae cohening for his secon grand jury appearance tomorrow what can we expect and then what happens? >> well, i think what we can expect is an indictment within probably, i would guess, 7 t ten days, coming out of th manhattan da's office. it's definitely going to be circus i think we already saw tha earlier today on the ari melbe show you played that clip certainly, trump intends to tr to turn this into the court of public opinion i have to say, it's not th best defense strategy for hi and for his side in this case. but it's definitely going to be, i think, a challenging case fo prosecutors. and i think the real questio is, is this going to be th last trump indictment even i it is the first? >> what is your guess? >> i think it's not. in fact, fulton county, i woul bet very heavily on fulton county - producing an indictment as well >> there you go. peter baker, david enrich, and renato mariotti, thank you all for being here tonight and when we come back -- let's go to the sunshine state ron des

aftermath of the acces hollywood tape instantly shook $130,000 in the bank account in discussions with michae cohen. one of the murkiness tha surrounds it is, if this was correct i'm not on the percent sure that we have a perfec understanding of often bragg's theory of the case, here i it's going to eastern connecte to a campaign finance la violation, he needs to sho that money was connected to th presidential campaign. trump could say no i just di not want my wife to find out so stormy daniels describing the long history of trying t get, payoff a hush money payment, and how it did no work until the last second o the presidential campaign, suddenly something changed, th important evidence for a grand jury considering whether tha second crime, it avonburg need to make a bookkeeping frau violation of new york law into a felony, works as a campaig finance crime. >> charlie said a, lot there's a lot we don't know. we don't know if this will be misdemeanor, a felony. there is a lot here that w don't know it, score this is not a slam dunk case of the four cases. but the president is facing. i would argue

presidency these were the crimes accordin to federal prosecutors in thei charging documents on michae cohenre the crimes that were committed in order t defraud voters, in fact, in th presidential election. these were the crimes that wer committed death so prosecutors put, it to affect presidential election. the other crimes that he is in line now to be charged with, was only commendable after h won the presidency these are the crimes tha allowed him to rig the electoral college. >> i'm so glad you said that lawrence, because too many people have been talking about this case as if it is not a bi deal especially as contrasted to th case in fulton county, georgia and jack smith's special counsel case into the januar 6th insurrection and the allegedly stolen classifie documents. this is a foundational case. he did not just pay off stormy daniels to keep her quie because it was embarrassing to him personally as you just said, he did thi to sway the results of the election in 2016, the american people did not have all of the information they were entitled to, before deciding for whom they wanted

but he said no, and he developed this case and michae cohen is going to be a great witness, but he is to corroborate ever word that he says. and i think that alvin bragg and his team have been working to corroborate him and i think they have what they need now and plus, by the way, th statute of limitations is abou to run out so they have to do this on now. >> what would be the time limit? obviously the campaign i inescapable part of the contex here the former president is runnin for president of the unite states what we do see is the timeline for this case? and how much will judges handl that because obviously they set a lot of that timeline, delay, delay, delay, get him into the white house so he can avoid it >> yeah, this is unprecedented we can only guess what is goin to happen, but, as you said, i going to delay, delay, delay that's what he does. it is mo i'm sure he's going to challenge the statute of limitations. he's going to challenge th statute. he's got people saying it's novel statute, or a novel us of the statute so he's going to try to make these claims but look, judges

the from the - falsified business records whe you funneled the funds from hi business company to michae cohen pay off stormy daniels under -- misdemeanor, can you explain the novel legal theory that th da's office were likely relyin on to elevate this to a fina in the offense and if they are going to use that theory, will it convince jury when it is the basis of a indictment >> fantastic question. so i think that the first poin is that the misdemeanor is a very clear one which is falsifying this record and that stands from the fact, as michael cohen has said an testified to, that these payments to stormy daniels where masked as a payment by donald trump of legal fees t michael cohen. and they weren't that. and so that filing of fals business records is misdemeanor. in order for that to be felony, you have to be able to show that the false business records were done to aid and abet or cover up some othe crime. whether it is a felony or misdemeanor. but you need some other crime. and there are a lot of issue there. we don't know yet what other crime the da might be thinking of it could be some

city starting tomorro as you mentioned, robert costello the legal adviser former legal adviser to michae cohen, he's not a househol name by any means. but he's somebody who is representing rudy giuliani steve bannon, and he knows trump world so well. he knows the ins, the outs, th people, he know it makes everybody in that world tick and that's something the trump team hopes will help as they work to discredit all of michael cohen's allegation with this. president trump, forme president trump is thrille that he's going -- tomorrow to testify. he said in a statement here, the most important witness t go before the new york cit ground jury and says quote, th information will present wil supposedly be conclusive and irrefutable. quite an endorsement there alicia >> gary grumbach, thank you fo getting a starting joining me now is kadia tubman managing editor for insider, and barb mcquade, former u.s attorney, co-host of the hashtag sisters in law podcast and professor at the universit of michigan law school it's great to see you borth. barbara, let's start with. you why do you think trump's team i

records that they have it could be text message between the main parties o could be something like michae cohen had a conversation wit donald trump and he turned around and texted, let's say texted a member of his famil that if you'll not believe wha happened at the office today it is crazy hush money payment he may have mentioned it i attacks. they will be going through and getting as much documentatio as they can together and then, secondly they are looking fo cooperating witnesses. people who back up his story about what happened. that is why they're brough another individuals wh potentially were a witness t this >> suzanne, thanks for joining us from the new york times suzanne craig. >> and now i want to bring i glenn kirschner, and bisson bc legal analyst and former prosecutor let's just take a step bac here and we talk about how unusual the situation is and kind of complex legal security environment that maybe president in lower manhattan later this week. >> yes, carrot the securit issues i think just got more dramatic quite frankly as result of donald trump's post. it is so reminiscent o

there has since been allegations by cohen, michae cohen his lawyer, jeffre berman the u.s. district attorney for the souther district of new york i'm interested get you thought. if the manhattan da goes forward with this indictment what bearing what implicatio does that have on the southern district of new york an office that you are ver familiar with. >> i will start with a disclaimer while that case i being prosecuted while out tha the office i had no involvemen in anything i'm talking abou has been publicly reported it looks like that sdn investigation, as it extends t donald trump has been closed obviously michael cohen ha been convicted of to campaig finance violations and sentenced to three years for that and other offenses. asked to the sdny investigation, when michael cohen pled guilty he directly implicated donal trump. he said, i took these action in coordination and at the direction of donald trump. you're thinking as a prosecuto watching, this is music to the prosecutors ears he is a potential cooperatin witness. that is not how it transpired. essentially michae

and if i were the prosecutor i'd welcome bob costello wit open arms and i would recall michae cohen tohe recor straight >> it seems like that's what he's doing we'll see how this plays out b the end of tomorrow. lisa, i want to ask you abou what mike pence said they're breakdown for us, ho alvin bragg is simply followin legal procedure here in trump' case >> bob costello reportedly i coming in tomorrow, not at the request of the manhattan da' office but at the request of trump' attorney, there is a provision of new york's criminal procedure law, that allows defendants not only to ask for notice when they might becom the subject of an indictment and to appear themselves, bu to also make a similar request when they are the subject of the criminal, charge are they're about to become th subject of criminal charges. they can make that request t have a witness on their behalf come in. in terms of what mike pence is saying, that this is politically, charged, again al go back to what you said in th introduction this is politically-charged in part because of donald trump's own making not becaus

called in, and if she did she' likely been mainly conversations that she's had with michael cohen, michae cohen'sr lawyers tha have been involved i'm not sure she'd be the wild common, i think she can add lot to the trial, but they called her and initially to se what she would say, previously she's met with attorneys fro the district attorney's office i think they've called in th main people that they want t have, that they wanted t ground jury here already >> panel, stick around we have a lot more to brea down our coverage continues after a quick break, don't go anywhere ...or a double shift. make your move and get out in front of eczema... with steroid-free cibinqo. not an injection,... cibinqo is a once-daily pill for those who didn't respond to past treatments. and it's proven to help provide clearer skin and relieve itch fast. cibinqo continuously treats eczema whether you're flaring or not. cibinqo can lower your ability to fight infections, including tb. before and during treatment, your doctor should check for infections and do blood tests. tell your doctor if you've had hepatitis b or c,

called in, and if she did she's likely been mainly conversations that she' had with michael cohen, michae cohen'sr lawyers tha have been involved. i'm no sure she'd be the wild common, i think she can add a lot to the trial, but they called her and initially to see what sh would say, previously she's me with attorneys from th district attorney's office. think they've called in th main people that they want t have, that they wanted t ground jury here already >> panel, stick around. we hav a lot more to break down. ou coverage continues after a quick break, don't go anywhere ♪♪ inner voice (kombucha brewer): if i just stare at these payroll forms... my business' payroll taxes will calculate themselves. right? uhh...nope. intuit quickbooks helps you manage your payroll taxes, cheers! with 100% accurate tax calculations guaranteed. >> tech: when you have auto glass damage, trust safelite. my customer really relies on his car's advanced safety system. [alarm] >> instructor: veer right. [ringing] >> instructor: and slow down. >> tech: so when he got a cracked windshield, he turned to safelite. we're th

interview, again, i'm not sure but yes, i was asked to make myself available >> so, the witness, michae cohen, is rebutting. it - bob castella will testify on monday looking into the hush money payments made to adult film star stormy daniels trump's attorneys asked the da -- late last night, after trump's surprise social media post protecting his tuesday arrest, we learned that manhattan da - sent a message - assuring them that efforts t intimidate them would not be tolerated. it's not every day about suc an important law enforcement officer feels compelled to ask wage the fears of his staffers republicans continue to defend donald trump and attack alvi bragg, despite there being n charges filed and no indicatio that charges will be filed -- chris immunity says -- senator lindsey graham say alvin bragg, quote, has done more to help donald trump ge elected president than any single person in america today that may be the case in some circles, but does not mean alvin bragg should not follo the rule of law? alvin bragg shouldn't be dissuaded from fulfilling hi elected duties just becaus republic

president as he comes here to iowa on monday i that investigation by a gran jury as former attorney, michae cohen will be testifying on th investigation looking into hus money payments that he made on behalf of mr. trump to adult film actress, stormy daniels trump of course denies wrongdoing, denies that he had any affair and all the, whil we are looking to see what happened with the new york prosecutor, if there might be possible indictment coming alex >> you will have to see if tha hinders his campaign plans a all, donald trump. where he would be indicted he has already said, no he would keep going forward but i guess he has to wait and see what ultimately happens if one is issued or not okay dasha burns, thank you so much interesting piece from des moines so when push came to shove and the rubber meant the, road s if you never thought you would see well, you are seeing it. next we'll hear a soundbit from a lawmaker who perfectl sums up the impact of kevi mccarthy's bargain with th far-right. , plus the lead investigator for the 16 panel joins me to debunk false narratives perche after the rele

michael cohen guilty that same justice department this is the federal justic department, says that michae cohen's actions were directe by individual number one, whic we know to beat donald trump and that this wasn't legitimat expenses for legal fees and th like, but that it was hush money. now the most important fac about this is that that was no the obama justice department making that finding. it was not the merrick garland justice department making that finding, it was donald trump's own justice department tha made that finding in federal court. so, you know, when you hear al this talk about this is al politicized in the like, i think it is important to remember that trump's ow justice department drew similar conclusion back then but of course there was doctrine that said that sittin presidents could be indicted for federal crimes trump is no longer a sitting president. >> i tell, you that perspectiv is valuable as we approach the story in news today. let me get to you now peter. your reaction to trump announcing that he's going t be arrested on tuesday, an then, calling on his supporter to pr

trump's attorney, michae cohen.even though prosecutors said they had evidence that cohen only committed the crime and the direction of president trump and for the benefit of president trump. they never charge presiden trump. we now know, because the u.s attorney at the time has spilled the beans about it he's written a book about it we now know that trump appointees at the department o justice ordered federa prosecutors to stop that investigation, to stop their inquiries relayed to that case after they charged michael cohen. according to former u.s. attorney jeffrey berman, the trump justice department repeatedly interfered in tha investigation after cohen wa convicted. jeff berman wrote a book about it dispels at all route. when bill barr took over his attorney in february 2019, h not only try to kill the ongoing investigations, bu incredibly suggested that mike the cohen's conviction o campaign finance charges b reversed barr summoned statewid officials to challenge the basis of cohen's plea as wel as the reason b