so do you agree with asa hutchinson on this? >> well, absolutely, and we've been saying all along that section 3 of the 14th amendment presents a clear and unequivocal statement that anyone who has sworn an oath of office, and not just a president but members of congress and others who hold federal office, who engage in insurrection or rebellion, having sworn an oath to uphold the constitution against enemies foreign and domestic, could never serve again and this is added after the civil war as a general constitutional principle. and we have to abide by it. donald trump was impeached by the house of representatives for insighting an insurrection against the union and then 57 of 100 senators determined as a constitutional fact that donald trump had incited an insurrection. so i think you have robust bicamera and bipartisan that has established this is a fact and i agree with the law professors out there saying as well as mr. hutchinson, that donald trump is disqualified as if he were running and not a born u.s. citizen and if he

ron desantis, vivek ramaswamy, >> nicole: nikki haley, tim scott, hutchinson and doug burgum.e people don't know all the candidates and looking to learn about them on stage. chris christie has been on the presidential debate stage, has been slamming desantis for that electioned memo talking about his campaign strategy suggesting he should defend trump and beat down on vivek ramaswamy, who is rising in the polls. florida politician showing he can memorize lines, what could possibly go wrong? ramaswamy is leaning on the founding fathers, saying this is our 1776 moment. vivek ramaswamy compared himself to jefferson saying if he can do it at 33, i can lead at 38. he hit the gym with his wife, preparing for the debate and pushing back on nikki haley who criticized him for foreign policy and defending himself. >> a lot of experience [indiscernible] -- how are you going to handle that if she brings it up. if somebody breaks your car for 25 years, you don't hand over the keys for the future. it is a badge 've honor. >> people want to know what he thinks about foreign plsz. nikki haley

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miss hutchinson said mr.assantino never explicitly told her to lie, but he did encourage her to use the phrase, i do not recall. and to tell investigators that she did not recall important events surrounding the capitol attack. miss hutchinson eventually hired new legal representation ahead of her public testimony. but like so many trump associates, she was forced to face the question, when donald trump is paying your legal fees, who is your lawyer really representing? joining me now is danya perry, a former assistant u.s. attorney for the southern district of new york and andrew weissmann, former fbi general counsel and member of special counsel robert mueller's investigation, also co-host of the indispensable msnbc podcast, prosecuting donald trump. danya and andrew, i found this to be a shocking revelation here. i don't know whether i should put my eyes back in my head here. the suggestion that a trump affiliated lawyer did not recuse himself or get off of this case for, a, a conflict of interest here. but

the committee's star witness, cassidy hutchinson, you may remember she got a phone call ahead of her deposition with the january 6th investigation, and in that phone call she was told trump's chief of staff knew she was loyal and that she would do the right thing. investigators later released testimony from her in which she described how her trump funded lawyer had attempted to shape her testimony and limit what she was willing to tell the january 6th investigation. cassidy hutchinson says that trump funded lawyer told her, quote, the less you remember, the better. eventually cassidy hutchinson got herself a new lawyer who wasn't on trump's payroll or on the payroll of his campaign, but that allegation about a trump funded lawyer trying to influence the testimony of his purported client now seems quite relevant again. there are now two trump employees charged along with their boss in the classified documents case, the federal criminal case in florida. lawyers for both those men are being paid by legal entities -- excuse me -- by political entities associated with trump. and that rais

asa hutchinson joins us live.sure trump actually posted about you on his truth social account earlier this morning saying this, and i'm quoting now from that account. "ada," that's what he called you, "ada hutchinson is too boring, he's at less than 1% and heading south, zero chance." governor, what's your strategy to stand out during tomorrow's debate and have a breakthrough moment? >> first of all, i think donald trump's getting a little bit weak on his nicknames. that doesn't mean a lot. but in terms of this debate, the fact that i'm here is a breakout moment for the campaign in and of itself. this is really my first opportunity on a broad scale to introduce myself to america, talk about my record, my vision for this country. and so that's the opportunity i have. very excited about being on that stage. >> you've said, governor, you intend to prosecute trump from the debate stage. what can you actually say to change the minds of trump supporters? >> whenever i use that phrase in a political sense, i want to make

former arkansas governor asa hutchinson, welcome. we wanted to talk to you, first of all, to talk to some of the other candidates, but you have stood alone with chris christie and will hurd perhaps in ignoring the polls. first, why do you think this is a defining moment? does it change anything for the race, do you think? and how can you continue this way and ignore the polls and risk not being able to actually get on the stages and play a major part in this debate? >> well, the polls are real. donald trump's strength is a realistic proposition we all have to face. we also have to look at the country and whenever you look at what's a common appearance in court today going in for an arraignment is an extraordinary time for our country. and there's a choice here, do you support the rule of law and accountability or do you support donald trump and support the chaos that he brings and a disregard for the rule of law? those are the serious issues that we face as a country but also as a party. so yes, i'm going against the grain. i hope th

is asa hutchinson getting on the stage and if not, how is he able to compete?at's a great question. he's going to get on the stage. the last requirement he has is 40,000 donor requirements which he said today on twitter he's over 36,000 and less than 4,000 donors away and i tell you if you're watching this and you want a conservative governor at the debate. i hope you'll going to asa debate.com and give $1. i think he'll get there today or tomorrow and a lot of momentum to want to see asa on the stage. if you go to asa debate.com and give a dollar you'll get him there. anita: he's got until monday night, i think that's the deadline. congresswoman luna, let me ask you, so much speculation whether trump will attend the debate. we're hearing a lot of mixed messages out there. what can you tell us. >> it's my understanding president trump will not be attending the debate, but he'll be doing a sit-down with tucker carlson around the same time. i'll say this as a candidate who run for office and attended and not attended certain debates i think he actually made the c

hutchinson said mr. pasatinob never told her explicitly to law but told her to use the phrase i did not recall and told her to tell investigators she did not recall important events surrounding the capitol attack. like so many trump associates, she was forced to face the question. when donald trump is paying your legal fees, who is your lawyer really representing? joining me now is danya perry, a former assistant u.s. attorney for the southern district of new york, and andrew wiseman, former member of robert mueller's. i found this to be a shocking sort of revelation here and i don't know whether i'm -- i should put my eyes back in my head here, but the suggestion that a trump affiliated lawyer did not recuse himself or get off this case for, "a," conflict of interest here. but, "b," the minute yucil taveras no longer has his trump lawyer, he flips. how do you read this, andrew? >> i think the reference to cassidy hutchinson is such a good one because i think it eicates people here to what's happening in

asa hutchinson was good. chris christie would be more effective. wanted to start with the talking about trump, and talk about what he will do for the nation because he was a good governor. in new jersey. i have a problem with donald trump, and i'm not going to tell you a lie. but number one, when i was being raised up, my parents always told us no matter what, always tell the truth. donald trump has a record of lying, and we have documents to prove it. over 35,000 lies, and i don't understand how anybody, and i just can't understand it. how anyone could follow a liar. >> that is this link c-span will examine some of those cases involving voting rights, affirmative action, antidiscrimination and free-speech, executive power and election laws. tonight, hear the case, biden versus nebraska were the court struck down the biden administration student debt relief row graham created during the covid-19 pandemic. watch key supreme oral arguments at 9 a.m. eastern time on c-span and online at c-span that org. >> i have a dream. my children will live in a na

the committee's star witness, cassidy hutchinson, you may remember she got a phone call ahead of herd she got a call that trump's staff said she knew she was loyal and cassidy hutchinson says that that trump-funded lawyer told her, quote, the less you remember the better. eventually she got herself a new lawyer who want on the payroll of the trump campaign. but that lawyer trying to influence the testimony of his purported client now seems quite relevant again. there are now two trump employees charged along with their boss in the classified documents case, the federal criminal case in florida. lawyers for both those men are being paid by legal -- excuse me, political entities associated with trump. that raises the question are they working in the interests of their clients or in trump's interest? did the trump lawyer who tried to influence cassidy hutchinson's testimony face any consequences to are -- for that? what did they learn when they went up against this kind of potential witness tampering before? luckily we have the former lead investigator for the congressional investigates

joining us live from iowa, republican presidential candidate, former governor of arkansas asa hutchinson. governor, thanks so much for being with us. we appreciate it. let's just get right to it if we can. this past week, as you heard, trump, the leader of the republican party, the current front-runner for the gop nomination, was indicted on charges of attempting to overthrow the 2020 election. he traveled to washington for his arraignment. since then, he's been issuing these threats on social media, saying, if you go after me, i'm coming after you. he described the special counsel, jack smith, as deranged. he's now attacking the judge handling the case, saying there's no way he can get a fair trial from her. how do you think the judge should handle this situation? does he need to be issued a warning, do you think? >> well, i think she will, and of course there's a whole trough of evidence that's going to be turned over to the defense which they'll show and share with donald trump. and what he does with that information is a legitimate question. obviously if he sees something to his poli

. >> sandra: all the candidates had a moment, asa hutchinson will be joining us later this hour, his thoughts how he thought he performed on the stage and how he thought his opponents on the gop primary stage performed as well. so, we look forward to that. >> john: spoiler alert, a columnist in the boston globe thought he was one of the highlights of the night. >> sandra: fox news alert for you, news coming into us right now as we are learning in the georgia -- the trump georgia election case as more trump co-defendants have surrendered in that georgia election case, that the trial has now been set. we know the campaign lawyer for trump issued a motion for a speedy trial. the d.a. in that case has now requested the start date, and this is the news, for all 19 defendants in that case to be, john, october 23rd, that is the trial date, october 23rd. >> john: so we'll see if trump's attorneys accept that or not. that would certainly put that trial well ahead of the primary schedule, we didn't think it was going to happen maybe until next year, but trump already has certainly enough thing

amy: that his former arkansas governor asa hutchinson. there were 4000 people in the audience. hear him being booed. you have written extensively about the 14th amendment was to conservative legal scholars are also writing about this. explain. >> the 14th amend midsection 3 is a post-civil war section, amendment. it deals with people who swear an oath to the united states and then in a position of power take actions that might up in the government, might in some way cause a political crisis of a sort that we saw certainly during the civil war that many people believe we saw were recently with trump's efforts to overturn the election. certainly different actions by any measure but at the end of the day, a failure to abide by it, the basic structures of the casa touche and. people generally have been on the left. in recent months, you've seen conservative legal scholars and even some conservative activists bring this issue up. it is a legitimate issue, a complex one, because the constitution doesn't really lay out how you enforce this standard. but the standard is that it someone

him, asa hutchinson, will hurd.f others would come forward and just tell the truth, first off, it would be liberating, it's fun to do that because you don't have to constantly worry and they may do damage to donald trump. >> former congressman adam kinzinger, thanks for the time. >> you bet. >>> coming up next on "cnn news central" 1911 lines down, roads covered in mud, water gushing out of storm drains. the latest on the damage that hilary brought to the southwest. >>> people have died, more are sick after drinking tainted milk shakes. what you need to know. safelite came right to us, and we could see exactly when they'd arrive with a replacement we could trust. that's servicece the way we want it. >> singers: ♪ safelite e repai, safelite replace. ♪ with 30 grams of protein. those who tried me felt more energy in just two weeks! uuuhhhh... those who tried me felt morehere, i'll take that!eeks! woohoo! ensure max protein, 30 grams of protein, 1 gram of sugar. enter the $10,000 powered by protein max allenge. ♪ ♪ you

governor asa hutchinson joins me now. he was governor of arkansas from 2015 until this year. about your status. i will admit that the metrics for making it got a little in the weeds for me to stay on top of. where are you, in terms of the? >> well, thanks chris. we are going to make the debate. we are not there yet. the rnc requires 40,000 unique donors to make the debate stage. we are getting close. we've got till monday, close of business, to make that 40,000. they said 2024.com is where you go to make sure i get on the debate stage. i'm not going to defend donald trump, i will be a prosecutor. i will be telling the truth on donald trump, and whether he's there or not, he will be a focal point of issue. both own what happened on january 6th, but also how he will not lead the republican party well into the future. >> so, this sort of encapsulates the issue here, right? the bind everyone is in. you and chris christie, at least, have a theory of the case. donald trump, the front runner is unfit for office. he shouldn't be the president. also he's a political liability. i think

i think asa hutchinson kind of faded into the background a little. i think tim scott the way he's running this presidential campaign is sort of as he's going to be the adult in the room, he's not going to take those punches, i think -- i don't know how much that helps him tonight on the debate stage especially given you had pence and vivek ramaswamy really going after each other and kind of sucking up all the oxygen in the room. so in that sense vivek ramaswamy i remember when he was polling at 1 or 2% told me his main goal was to make the debate stage because it would be a big opportunity to get eyeballs and get his name out there. whether or not you think he did a good or bad job, i think he got that done clearly. the other person who i think will be really interesting to see whether he gets a bump in the polls or not is ron desantis because remember before this debate, ron desantis' campaign was telling everybody he was going to be the center of attacks. he was not. so i'm curious whether that means there's a shift in who people think is in second

i wouldn't mind standing there next to chris christie and asa hutchinson getting booed, but i didn'tey have to keep telling the truth because the fact that people are willing to just forget about what happened on january 6th, it's ridiculous. it's absurd. it's an embarrassment to the party. and they have to stand up and have a little more courage. donald trump last night saids it was january 6th was a beautiful day. it wasn't a beautiful day. it was one of the darkest days in american history. i was sending in the maryland national guard to protect the leaders of congress, while they are chanting to hang the vice president. it's not even in reality anymore. i don't understand. >> you have been flirting with the notion of participating in a third party run. the group is no labels. you are involved with no labels. after you saw what you saw last night where you look at the large picture of where the race is right now, are you any closer to saying, that's something i want to do? >> it's really not something i'm focused on. i believe that the group is out there representing a lot of folk

it within the republican primary or anywhere else for that matter, but all of them accept visa, hutchinson, former governor barrick, arkansas, you know, essentially said that they would be supportive of donald trump, even if convicted of serious federal crimes and then he would, they would still support donald trump in that in that case. and so it raises this interesting question which i think conflicts a little bit with what you said shelby, how can both things be true? how can they both authentically, seriously want to be present of united states and still be so obsequious to the last president who's facing so many federal indictments? i think the simple answer is you look at the republican based as a whole, and when i'm on the ground talking to voters, which, you know, we've been to south carolina, new hampshire, iowa. even the voters who are interested in a trump alternative or flat out don't want trump to be present. and again, at the same time, don't want to vote for somebody who directly goes after the former president. and there's this, there's this kind of weird. uh, there's weird

bret: imannals from earlier this month -- governor hutchinson.s from earlier this month -- vice president pence, really doesn't help. i'm asking a question. earlier this month, images showed suspected cartel members crossing into texas with rifles. do you consider this an invasion? would you authorize lethal force along that border? >> there would be lethal force used by the border patrol, law enforcement as needed to protect the border. absolutely. when you look at the military, the military has to be used for intelligence gathering purposes. this is not unusual. whenever i was in the bush administration, we went down there and met with president fox of mexico and asked him help going after the cartels. he looked at me and said they're a problem to us as well and so we join together and we took down the felix brothers leagued the tijuana cartel and that made a difference. ramon was shot and killed and the other captured. cooperation makes a difference. we cannot be successful going against the cartel unless we bring in mexico as a partner. we ha

i think asa hutchinson is trying to make the best version of the argument to republican voters, whichmething you kind of heard ron desantis say, which is we want someone who is unencumbered by all this stuff and who can day one get to the job at hand. that may be the best version of this argument you can make, the best case you can make. republican voters don't want to hear attacks on trump, but they might be swayed by this idea that perhaps he just has simply too much baggage to be in the job. we'll see who else is willing to make that case as well. >> too much baggage, but i just want our viewers to see the snapshot of the national mood among republicans with regard to these candidates. donald trump, this is cnn's poll of polls, 57%, ron desantis is 40 points below him. he's the closest at 17. vivek ramaswamy at 6%. all other candidates even below that. >> it's remarkable. that's why donald trump is not showing up this that auditorium behind you tonight, dana. it's because the concern that if he does come, if someone was able to effectively criticize him or take a shot at him, wheth

one asa hutchinson joins us. a former member of the house select committee jamie raskin as our breaking news continues on this historic and sad night. ggl] ♪ jitterbug! ♪ [ giggles loudly ] [ tapping ] ♪ you put the boom-boom into my heart ♪ intuitive sit-to-start in the all-electric id.4. it's the little things, it's a vw. ♪ "please don't go" by harry casey, richard raymond finch ♪ (sfx: ping) ( ♪ ) ♪ please don't go ♪ ♪ please don't go... ♪ ♪ please don't go ♪ ♪ please don't go ♪ ♪ don't goooooo! ♪ ( ♪ ) ♪ don't go away ♪ get a free storage upgrade when you pre-order at t-mobile. ♪ please don't go ♪ our ears connect us to the moments that matter. give them the nutrients they need with lipo. it's formulated with ingredients clinically shown to protect your ears from dizziness, ear ringing, and even hearing loss. never miss a moment with lipo flavonoid. you tried. limiting when it was okay. no tech behind closed doors. but social media's algorithms of addiction always won out. it's not your fault. alone you can't

why isn't asa hutchinson on the stage and have no idea.chinson, he was on one side on the end and then doug burgum was on the other because of the polling issue. there are a lot of calls to be called with asa hutchinson and doug burgum should step aside but your thoughts about the debate last night in general, did you see a breakout moment when you are watching at all? >> breakout moments were tough, i think with debates i get more annoyed and then i think this is my person, i thought the little squeamish between mike pence and vivek, i was surprised mike pence was trying to talk over the moderator and getting as many fights as he ended up doing. i think those to enact dynamic did not go so well and i think ron desantis actually met or exceeded expectations and those were sky high. people say he dodged some questions, yes he answered the question that he wanted to which is i have a record in florida, look what i've done i'm not just words i've actually done stuff. to answer that question to point to his record is not dodging the question i

does the president really think he lost, hutchinson as meadows, on one occasion? unclear. >> i think the january 6th hearings actually presented a pretty concise case, and i do think that i got through to voters, and i think it was partly because was from some appointees, republican appointees, who are the ones that were used to display against him. whether that lingers in voters minds, i think, is a real open question. >> i don't think that they wanted him in a sense of, the change a lot of minds. his supporters either don't care or so believe what he says, which is that the election was stolen and that biden is not a legitimately elected president. >> is any of this new revelations from these transcript enough to loosen donald trump scrimp on the republican party, you think? >> i doubt it, not his base. his peace will stay where they are they don't care about the facts. >> donald trump and his supporters are clear and present danger to american democracy. >> jake tapper: you've been shouting from the rooftops. this is not just about 2020. you're worried about 20

enter this race, the those that won't be on the debate stage again a so hutchinson, he'll be gone. doug brougham, he could, he shouldn't be the next candidate. that would go because he really is a no no and but he has the personal resources to meet the requirements that might be forth that are forthcoming by the warranty. so you can't count him out. but in the governor to santa's he, he won the he won parts of the debate last night because he didn't take the bait. and i think he was smart to look around and realize everybody was looking at the clown show that became vague and they attacked the vague instead of him. that was a good thing because i think everybody's thought after the dissenters debate memo was linked by his consultant that ron was going to be structured on his talking points and go after vague. he didn't have to do that. he did not to follow his poli memo. maybe that was a genius moved by his team and to get everybody else to focus on the vague because he was truly the one who was given. ron, the most heartburn before that event, final final final world to, to shelby

here's how asa hutchinson says he is going to address trump. listen. >> i'm not going to defend donald trump. i will be a prosecutor. i will be telling the truth on donald trump. and whether he's there or not, he will be a focal point of issue, both what happened on january 6 but also how he will not lead the republican party well into the future. >> chris christie also expected to take a similar approach. those two are going to be pretty much the only anti-trump or trump-critical candidates. what do you think of that strategy, bakari? >> well, i actually think that chris christie and asa hutchinson probably have the ability to perform the best at this debate. they come in with this prosecutorial experience. both of them have led states. both of them have won elections multiple times over. so, i do believe that legal background is going to bode them well at this debate. we all know that the individual who has kind of the most to gain and the most to lose in this outside of donald trump's just looming presence is ron desantis. and i think ron de

asa hutchinson, minus 18 points., do not want to hear it and chris christie at minus 44 points, my goodness gracious. >> yeah. he is not running to be donald trump's vice president this time around. this goes without saying and harry, which republican candidates are actually gaining ground in the polls? are we talking about ramaswamy? who are we talking about? >> yeah. we're talking vivek ramaswamy, and tim scott. look at their net favorability ratings and ramaswamy has been basically praying at the altar of donald trump and not so much of a surprise that his favorability is as high as it is and tim scott isn't mentioning donald trump and he's trying to strike the middle ground which seems to be working and either striking the middle ground and donald trump works within the republican ranks and being critical of the former president, simply put, does not work. >> you have new data on who trump supporters believe the most, the former president or their family and friends? i feel like i want to shield myself from the g

the strategies you feel his supporters away, you either do a chris christie or asa hutchinson and takeead-on or you are vivek ramaswamy, trying to position yourself just like trump that may be different enough. katrina: we will give an eye on that tonight. anthony, thank you. earlier, i spoke with jason miller, senior advisor on donald trump's campaign, about this debate. jason miller, senior advisor for donald trump, his campaign, thank you for joining is. first, why is he skipping the debate? >> president trump is ahead by 50 points in the primary. looking ahead to the general election, he is the only republican candidate meeting joe biden. he is focused on getting this country back on track. he has said he will not get any debates until further notice, not unlike what ronald reagan did years ago. but there is no reason when you have a candidate like president trump at 62% in the polls and candidates like asa hutchinson who are at less than 1%, to go in there, that is not how we will fix inflation and other issues. >> nevertheless, wisconsin is an important state. the convention will

i thought -- saw asa hutchinson tonight.ing that he will be there talking about being there for the second debate. why? what is the point of that? they did not realize that there think the thing to look out for is who is going to rise to the clear second position in this group. and on the basis of tonight, i think that the movement we can expect is for vivek to be rising. i don't know whether that will mean he will be consistently in the number two slot versus ron desantis who has already beat desantis in a couple of polls. what we will see. i think he is the one who is on the way up and i don't really agree with how we. i think that desantis did not do enough to stabilize his campaign. he, -- do not stand out enough. i think that he is the one who really will have the pressure on him in the next debate. >> trace: dr. reince priebus was on with sean hannity. he talked about some of the other candidates. i want to play this because even steve mentioned this earlier, joe, that he thought that nikki haley had a good night and m

asa hutchinson's in that column with him. that helps on that front a little bit. for america or not. asa hutchinson and chris christie both fall into the category of people that moderate voters might look at and say, maybe the republican parties not dead and lutak. maybe there's some conservative people who are involved in it. the rest of them are maga -- >> dappling side, asa hutchinson and chris christie are still polling in the one to 2%. that's considering they've been going after the former president repeatedly from the get-go. this is gonna be a reckoning for the republican party. and i wonder how they're going to toggle going after the former president of the united states that won't be on the debate stage. the leading candidate for president in 2024 in the republican party. and also a guy that's been indicted for times with 90-plus criminal charges under his belt. >> it's not deterring those people that will defend donald trump. vivek ramaswamy, five of them said they will pardon donald trump. vivek ramaswamy sat on day one, vivek ramaswamy, who's pulling

asa hutchinson's a good man. will hurd's a good man. chris christie.he nomination. the only lane in this party is to try to hug trump and hope that he can't run. >> and paul, trump also has a few choice words for his former vice president. he posted on his truth social account about mike pence saying he was about to be ousted as governor of indiana until trump picked him to be his running mate. he called pence delusional and a bunch of other stuff. there.n see it on your screen i won't read it all. but i mean pence potentially could be one of the star witnesses in this trial. again, isn't this witness intimidation? doesn't the judge have to warn trump and say knock it off? >> the lawyer in me wants to protect the first amendment. that's the most important thing. and i hope this judge has a very, very wide strike zone. donald trump is running for president. mike pence is running against him. he should have a perfect right to criticize pence. this to me doesn't cross the line the way the veiled threat does, "i'm coming after you." that's different from j

asa hutchinson former governor of arkansas appreciate your time.with the most obvious one. you haven't said if you met the fundraising threshold to qualify for the first debate. how close are you at this point? >> we are getting very close. we have until monday evening to qualify for the 40,000 individual donors and it is up to all the viewers. go to asa 2024.com. a dollar helps us get on the debate stage and i think my voice is very important. this is the first debate that will really be show casing a future republican party without donald trump. whether there or not he will be a topic. we'll state our positions on him. i'll tell the truth. it is important debate because it is going to be a future republican party without donald trump. >> do you believe, you are still confident you'll get there by monday based on the numbers you're looking at? >> i do. we're gaining a couple thousand new donors which is extraordinary. new donors every day. people have gone to asa 2024.com and said we want you on the debate stage so that momentum is there. we have

hutchinson at 1%. public knows who i am and what a successful presidency i had with energy independence and military. no inflation. strong as the economy in history and much more. finishing off by saying this i will therefore not be doing the debates. that's from the truth social sites that he made that announcement yesterday. citing the cbs poll that came out yesterday that did show mr. trump of the considerable lead over the republican who want to be in the white house of 2024 but also showed a little bit of information about the debate itself this week when it comes to the debate mr. trump's opponent should focus more on -- 91% saying they should make the case for themselves and 9% only saying it makes the case against former president trump. again that some of the polls there. we will show you others. in this first topic when it comes to republicans only and that fox debate the rnc debate should president trump change his mind and attend. saying he should be in attendance and debate his challengers

if you're asa hutchinson or even a ron desantis, what's your reaction when you see that poll? >> this poll should send shockwaves through any member of the republican party who wants to see the party take a different direction from donald trump. this notion that ron desantis was supposed to be the heir apparent, i think he had a shot of that shortly after the midterms, but that's been squandered. i have to place blame on the top contenders in the field af donald trump, whether it's ron desantis, nikki haley, tim scott, who i have a ton of respect for, they have not taken on donald trump. a former president who's got near 100% name i.d. in this country, this notion you're going to somehow beat him by defining yourself and rolling out a great policy proposal, that doesn't work in donald trump's america. there has to be an effort to talk about why he's not a credible leader, why he is ununfit for office. how many indictments do we have to have before they're going to do that. i think as smart as folks may be, they're waiting for magic to happen. >> thomas massie, who's a kentucky

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-- asa hutchinson.hat may change if they detect the republican base is starting to tire. there is a lack of courage among these candidates. the fear is if they were to take on trump, they would lose any possible benefit if down the road donald trump is no longer a candidate. so they want to retain the maga base and also attempt to have other republicans as well. kristen: i want to end this on what the timeline looks like for the four separate indictments and potential trials. circled on the calendar there is november 2024, the presidential election. >> so that's a real good question. because all four of these cases cannot be heard in that one year period of time. it's just impossible. i think the most recent indictment in georgia is more complicated because there is 19 defendants. so you have 19 attorneys. you can see how that easily turns into a circus. i still believe that the document case is the simplest, most clear one because he obstructed justice, stole documents, you can go back to clinton's nat

and everyone except for chris christie and asa hutchinson put their hands up.f a pardon of trump. >> may i speak on this issue? >> you didn't -- >> you didn't -- say something. we thought you were done but -- >> -- say this. why don't you join me in -- >> hold on -- >> on the older only candidate on the stage with the courage to actually say. that is the -- our nation forward. -- >> donald trump will be convicted of these crimes -- >> -- be able to make a commitment the same justice is -- them >> -- the difference between you and me. >> -- answer the question. >> -- i've actually given pardons when i was governor of the state of indiana usually follows a finding of guilt and contrition by the individual that has been convicted. >> now, there were many moments in this debate that left me with so, so many questions. but to especially jump out. first of all, will anything we saw tonight hurt front runner donald trump? and will this debate have any impact on the standing of the rest of the field. maybe. we will see. joining me now with his first reaction to this de

hutchinson has struggled amid the shifting sands of his party. while policy-wise he remains mostly in lock step as governor he signed one of the country's strictest abortion bans. lacks the fire breathing troll that animates most of the gop. what do you make of it? >> i think it's a challenge we face. this election will define the future of the republican party. and i don't believe that donald trump will define the future of the republican party in a way that is consistent with the principles that have been so historic of a limited government, of a strong leadership role that the united states plays. so it's really about who is a conservative but also who can lead effectively and not bring us into chaos and that can bring our country not necessarily together, but at least united around the common set of principles and values. and not to further that divide. so this is an important time in our country and i think that article articulated that i'm fighting for republican party that believes in those principles of reagan, lincoln, that -- of opportu

we saw it with the january 6th committee, and cassidy hutchinson. they were telling her to not recall events that happened. she did very well recall. and what did she do? she did the right thing, which is switch lawyers. so she was defending her best interests and not trump's best interest. >> when you look at this, gene, this is essentially one of the thing thats i can imagine is going to make the prosecutors raise their eyebrows on something and say, that's interesting. so, your co-defendant in this important case, in fulton county, is a fund-raiser for it? and there's also the bond agreement that you can't actually talk about the facts of the case. is this going to make you nervous? >> as a defense attorney, would make me very nervous. as a prosecutor, i'm salivating. >> i knew it. i knew it. my mouth was watering, as well. >> the reason is this. you go to trial and what is a jury going to hear? they're going to hear that all these people sitting together at the table, are being funded by the lead guy, donald trump. and there's probably going to

chris christie went over and over talking about the serious conduct, asa hutchinson routeing that inke pence received boos from the audience when he offered his two cents on the age of the next president. we don't need a president. we don't need a president who is too old. we don't need a president who is too young. we need a president who has been there. we need a president who knows how congress works, how the white house works, how states work. on this education issue... that was mike _ on this education issue... that was mike pence _ on this education issue... that was mike pence using - on this education issue... that was mike pence using the - was mike pence using the goldilocks argument, not too old, not too young, someone just right, ie, him. that old, not too young, someone just right, ie, him.— old, not too young, someone just right, ie, him. at the end ofthe just right, ie, him. at the end of the day. — just right, ie, him. at the end of the day, there's _ just right, ie, him. at the end of the day, there's a - just right, ie, him. at the end of the day, there's a phrase i

that is our road back to get the country on track again. >> governor hutchinson?as former head of the dea i understand the drug crisis in america. right now whenever you look at the challenges in the inner-city, theirs three simple words that would be helpful. one, enforce the law when it comes to crime. secondly, deal with the challenge of fentanyl. it is both about fentanyl coming from mexico, but it's also about education of our young people making sure that we have the tools that are needed for addiction counseling. that is what we expanded in arkansas as well. whenever you look at the underlying challenge of america, no one likes to see an america of smash and grab in inner cities. as president of the united states, that will stop. it starts at the top with respect for our justice system, that a former president who is under indictment were undermined by attacking judges, by attacking prosecutors, by attacking the system and saying he is aggrieved. we have to have respect for our justice system and the rule of law. it starts at the top with the president of t