his books include, the mind of thomas jefferson, and jefferson's empire. in their new book, most blessed of patriot, thomas jefferson, ms. gordon reed in they presented a character study the man from monticello who we thought we knew. presidential historian john makem praises and i quote, with characteristic insight and intellectual rigor and an they have produced a powerful and lasting portrait of a mind of thomas jefferson. this is an essential and brilliant book by two of the nation's foremost scholars. scholars. a book that will, like its protagonist, into her. we are so pleased to have them here with us this evening. ladies and gentlemen, please please join me in welcoming and that gordon reed and peter, to the free library [applause]. >> it is wonderful to be here and to be here with one of my best friends. we would just like to start by talking about our friendship. the the secret is, i would not have done this book if it had not been for her. >> the idea for this book and i would say it began sometime in the 1990s when i had written a manuscript ab

peter onuf is author of jefferson's empire, among several works on jefferson and he is the thomas jefferson memorial foundation professor at uva. he is thomas jefferson professor at mister jefferson's university. no pressure there at all. "most blessed of the patriarchs," thomas jefferson and the empire of imagination. much conversation about jefferson is on the contradiction between the ideal he imagined for the nation and the details of his own life and one of the strengths of this book is it is not a defense and not an attack. jefferson's aspirations were inextricably linked to his limitations. the book explores his for self perception and does so in part by focusing on the action at monticello which reflects him as a few places can. i am excited to hear from them so i will get out of the way. they will speak 25 minutes and take your questions. it is my pleasure to introduce annette gordon reed and peter onuf. [applause] >> thank you, great to be here and great to be here with my good friend annette gordon reed. she didn't know we were going to be good friends when she first encountered

jefferson . he will cure all of our disorders, relieve us of taxes, and prefersich the see of liberty, the storm of revelation. revolution. all of the federal officers, he will play the devil with the damn banks. commerceut a stop to and will introduce a new order one that will as make every demo happy, no doubt. another attack was jefferson's religious belief, that he was an atheist and an infidel and that america would cease to be godly. praying to the god of reason and jefferson sacrificing dogs. there was a newspaper editorial that had the headline, the grand question stated. the only question to be asked to every american, laying his hand on his heart is, shell i ortinue allegiance to god declare with jefferson, no god. jefferson had written a letter in 1796, which was meant to be a private letter in which he criticized the government and by implication, george washington. the letter had some strong language and he said that people had been sampson's in the field and solomons and counsel and

his books include the mind of thomas jefferson and jefferson's empire. in their new book "most blessed of the patriarchs: thomas jefferson and the empire of the imagination" annette gordon-reed and peter onuf present a character study of the man from monticello who we thought we knew. presidential historian john makem phrases with characteristic insight and intellectual rigor annette gordon-reed and peter onuf have produced a powerful and lasting portrait of the mind of thomas jefferson. this is an essential and brilliant book by two of the nation's for most scholars, a book that will, like its protagonists indoor. we are so pleased to have them here with us this evening. latest gentlemen please join me in welcoming annette gordon-reed and peter onuf to the free library. [applause] >> bank you very much. it is wonderful to be here and to be here with one of my best friends, annette gordon-reed. we would like to talk a little bit about that friendship. i would not have done this book if it hadn't been for annette gordon-reed inviting me and an opportunity

his books include the mind of thomas jefferson and jefferson's empire. in the new book is thomas jefferson and the entire into te imagination, ms. annette gordon reed is reviewing how character studies of demand for monticello that we thought we knew. presidential historian john praises and i quote with characteristics or insight they've produced a powerful and lasting portrait of the mind of thomas jefferson. this is an essential and brilliant book by two of the nation's foremost scholars, a book that will endure. we are so pleased to have been here with us this evening. please join me in welcoming annette gordon-reed and peter to the library. plus the [applause] >> thank you. it's wonderful to be here with one of my very best friends, annette gordon-reed. we would like to start by talking a little bit about our friendship. the secret is i wouldn't have done this but if it hadn't been for inviting me and the opportunity to spend time with her so that is a serious scholar i am. [laughter] i need to make a better argument. >> people ask us how we ca cameo

jefferson is still in paris. jefferson does not become secretary of state until march of april of 1790. there is a good chunk of time with the new government is up and running, there is a decent amount of unanimity as to look policies that should be pursued. senators were the exception. when jefferson arrives, i do think that has an influence, ultimately on madison. jefferson is -- let me see, is at least 12 or 14 years older than madison. he has used hamilton as brash, a little too much in-your-face, not a southern gentleman. there is all of the policy differences that we have talked about. i do think jefferson works on madison. i do think that contributes to the split. again, couples with some policy differences. i am not convinced, not that madison was a dupe of jefferson, but it did not help to have jefferson inside the convention whispering to people like madison, then eventually to newspaper editors about the debates that are going on within the cabinet and within the administration. there were legitimate p

jefferson refuses to listen.th his friends in the press to try to undercut washington's administration. and washington leaves at the end of his second term with great fear for what would happen if this partisanship continued to spiral out of control. >> my god, i would rather be in my grave than spend one more minute in this office. >> mr. president, i... >> the men who write and publish these papers must think me a fool. but you know me better than that, don't you, mr. jefferson? >> john adams is elected president but he takes over at a turbulent time. america is on the brink of another international conflict. france is at war with great britain. and french ships capture american vessels trading with england, leading hamilton's federalists to call for war with france. >> john adams is a federalist and thomas jefferson a democratic-republican. but when they both run for president, jeffersonmes vic. this is because the founders did not account for political parties. the candidate with the most electoral votes beco

jefferson praying to the god of reason and jefferson sacrificing dogs. there was a newspaper editorial that had the headline, the grand question stated. the only question to be asked to every american, laying his hand on his heart is, shell i continue allegiance to god or declare with jefferson, no god. jefferson had written a letter to an italian in 1796, which was meant to be a private letter in which he criticized the government and by implication, george washington. the letter had some strong language and he said that people had been sampson's in the field and solomons and counsel and it had their head shorn. this was somehow, this was leaked. it first appeared in a vulgar french issue. it was then translated into english. the letter was used to suggest that jefferson was against washington and was really turning his back on the revolutionary legacy. they also brought up his behavior as governor of virginia, that he had run away from the british. it is always a bizarre charge because the legislature, who were most critical of him ran far ahead of him

they are taking on jefferson and the jefferson administration by filing suit. the supreme court, at that point, was far from a coequal branch of government. they had no respect, no prestige. the supreme court sits and hears the arguments and the lawyer had been attorney general in the adams administration, charles lee. and then the supreme court issues an order to show cause. what that means is they are ordering madison and jefferson to justify their actions. they say they will hear the case in june of 1802. this shocked the jefferson administration. because now, the supreme court is really sticking it to them. the supreme court is going to make them justify why they did not deliver the commission and it is going to hear this lawsuit. the jefferson allies react with a fury. host: one of the things important about this series is it is interactive. we invite participation. you can call in a few minutes from now. here are the numbers. you can also tweet us questions. we will work those in throughout the program. use the #landmark cases. on the facebook page, an ar

jefferson does that. it's not that he doesn't want his daughters, but he wants them as the marines want you to be, all that you can be. that was the misapplication of something. the point is serious. what do you think about this? for instance, with his granddaughters and their ability to learn. >> i mean, the letter that he writes when she's 12, he's a middle-aged guy who's lost his life. he has two daughters.wi he has no idea what to say to don. he's lost the separate spheres of male and female. he gradually over the time, by the time he gets granddaughters, he knows what to say. he knows how to talk to young women. i'm not saying you are attacking him. i'll qualify in this notion about pete thinks he's being the dutiful father and all of that. he is somewhat thick. that it comes from a place of panic perhaps. you know, how am i going to do this. they don't have a mother. i am now in control of this. what do i do. >> even the idea -- >> we should go on.l we argue all the time. >> is a man in a black cat.

what was jefferson thinking?it is important to bring up what might seem like an old, boring story to and that is, jefferson and his fellow revolutionaries that they were changing the world by attacking monarchy, aristocracy, aristocracy, privilege, established churches, all of these forms of inequality and second-class citizenship. they were struggling against the tyranny of george the third, they were killing the king, his role have become unnatural because he was making war on his own subjects. people who, in america revered him until the imperial crisis that led to independence.or in other words, king george was a bad father. we get back to the notion of fatherhood and a simple way to understand what mobilized a loth of men, the very independent men of virginia who thought well of themselves and still do in the first families, to think of george the third is somebody who challenged their own patriarchy, there fatherhood on their fit plantations and in the families. there fatherhood was incompatible with the wi

and now the defendant, george jefferson, owner and operator of jefferson cleaners. he claims the plaintiff left a chocolate bar in his pocket. we have the making of a very interesting case here on video verdict. judge cronin is entering the courtroom. let's join him as he hears the case of... "who took who to the cleaners?" the participants have been sworn in. will the plaintiff please state his case? certainly,your honor. i took my pantsinto jefferson cleaners-- i object. this isn't a real court. this court does not recognize objections. i'm sorry, your highness. i objected because the plaintiff didn't specify which jefferson cleaners. you see, sir, i have seven locations. objection overruled. grease stains, grass stains-- no problem. knock it off! no problem. go on, mr. willis. it's very simple. i took the pants in--no stain. got them back--pure milk chocolate. you have any evidence? i do, your honor. here is exhibit "a." and "b," "c," and "d." how do you know this is chocolate? well, i, uh... i tasted it. speak up, please. i tasted it! now, look! but he has right

[applause] he patriarchs" about thomas jefferson. they start now on booktv. miss gordon reed won the national book award and the pulitzer prize for her first book [inaudible conversations] good afternoon welcome to the festival and the nonfiction but critic davidd is an honor to be here i have then to a lot of these there are few that are is inviting.se me? a few housekeeping announcements please keep your phones quiet. there are surveys to complete a negative piece of a gift card is spent on you books will be at the bookk signing area right after the presentation so with that said let's get started it is hard to imagine a better pairing of doctors to discuss thomas jefferson as professor of medical from having san monticello after publishing 2,008 in the thomas jefferson professor.son [laughter] and end with the empire of imagination with those ideas contradictionor the nation and one of the things is is not an attack or defense is actions were linked ended does so to focus on those actions of monticello as you so places can it is my pleasure to introduce an

his books include the mind of thomas jefferson, and jefferson's empire. in their new book, "most blessed of the patriots: thomas jefferson and the empire of the imagination," they present a reviewing character study of a man from monticello who we thought we knew. presidential historian john that come prices come at a quote with characteristic, insight and intellectual rigor and then annette gordon-reed and peterit onuf produced a powerful and lasting portrait of the mind of thomas jefferson. this is an essential andoremosto brilliant book by two of the nation's foremost scholars, a book that will, like its protagonists and, into her. we are so pleased to have them here with us this evening. ladies and gentlemen, please join me in welcoming annetteto gordon-reed and peter onuf to the free library. [applause] >> thank you verthank you very . it's wonderful to be your ended the year with one of my very best friends, annette gordon-reed. we were just like to start by talking a lot about our for your friendship. the secrets i wouldn't have done this book if i

it was albert j knox jefferson. brandeis was so enthusiastic about it, he suggested it be distributed to every school child in kentucky. he called jefferson the "great libertarian" and praised jefferson for attacking the increasingly powerful federal judiciary as a haven for monopolists and the exploiting classes. he saw the supreme court under the leadership of chief justice marshall as an instrument of centralization and marshall wrote to william johnson in 1823 that he feared no danger more than the consolidation of our government by the noiseless, and therefore, an alarming history mentality of the supreme court. jefferson deplored marshall as a crafty chief judge who sophisticates the law to his mind, construing our constitution from a coordination of general and special government, to general and supreme one alone. jefferson like louis brandeis was a foe not of capitalism, but of monopoly. in his hatred of monopoly, jefferson was not alone among the american founders. the boston tea party, which sparked the am

and jefferson and she met each other in france they really think of jefferson has a relationship ended jellicoe church was another married woman and to have a highly charged relationship and at the end of tenure as secretary of state to be begun by alexander hamilton. and then hamilton wins the battle the deficit is going home. doesn't mention the wars of hamilton but he knew all about it. they were very close. tsa i am going back to monticello. one of the lines he talks about is go home to his field in his barn in his books to watch the happiness of those who labor and then he talks about his daughter and if they do well to be less of the patriarchs. blessed is the most blessed of the patriarchs. and with the democratic republican and champion of a of a common man. in the patriarch of the autocrat. that is someone who rules over his domain and his family to think about ancient times. ended is the contradiction. >> and his association with rights. but one of the rights that seems most natural to him and with that domestic domain. with a household economy and a little society. they woul

, hamilton, adams, and the madison joining with jefferson and others. and then the secretary of state and leaving. i don't know whether it was a temporary perspective that jefferson had during the administration, washington is from virginia and i was very surprised to see after reading your books how jefferson turned out to be evil. am i crazy. >> did you just say evil? >> evil, because he was against the washingtons approach. >> , he times have you seen hamilton? >> i have the cd. >> know and also miranda spoken know, but the fact is looking at the book he takes a certain perspective. >> can i start on an answer? and annette will set me. first of all, the idea political opposition is absolutely illegitimate. party, factions, no good. we've been talking about love at nausea. it's that people do recognize, values and commitments, and they don't. of course love always makes, failed love makes things worse as freud would tell you about love, hate, and the second thing is to get back to the real world there is no guarantee that the american union will survi

well, jefferson himself made a big deal about his privacy.that privacy is foundational to how he understands his public life. take this simple idea, in a republic citizens are equal and they have to consent to the laws that the majority decides on and that consent has to be truly voluntary and come from the self-determination of individuals, so how do you protect individuals from insidious influences? how do you take for instance the common person out of the mob? how do you avoid the usual problems or path ologies of democracy because democracy was a dirty word. put a bunch of people together and they will get drunk and if they have a governments and they control the government, what would they do? you would pass laws and that means you would redistribute property, so how do you lift people up is a big challenge and crucial to the lifting people up is a new conception of consenting self and jefferson's project was a self fashioning project to make himself someone. he wants to exemplify how unenlightened republican citizen can become well-info

greatall jefferson the libertarian. he praised jefferson for attacking the increasingly powerful federal judiciary as a haven for monopolist and the exploiting classes. he saw the supreme court under the leadership of chief justice marshall as an instrument of centralization and marshall wrote to william johnson in 1823 that he feared no danger more than the consolidation of our government by the noiseless, therefore an alarming history mentality of the supreme court. jefferson deplored marshall as a crafty chief judge who sophisticates the law to his , construing our constitution from a coordination of general and special government, to general and supreme one alone. jefferson like louis brandeis capitalism, but of monopoly. in his hatred of monopoly, jefferson was not alone among the american founders. the boston tea party, which sparked the american revolution, was a rebellion against the government granted monopoly held by the east india company. after the constitutional convention, jefferson expressed grave concern

jefferson that jefferson could read the manuscript of the convention-buffs it's not finished. so madison has to try to finish it and he secretly borrows from george washington the official journal which nobody was supposed to see, and he makes a secret copy of the journal, then he use that secret copy of the journal to finish his notes you. can imagine two years after you have taken abbreviated notes, you don't have a lot of idea what they mean any longer. so the end of madison's notes bear a marked resemblance to the official journal, and madison then, as he was fitting everything in from the official journal, he realize head hadn't written down the important motions or things in the beginning of his notes because he was just interested in what he and his enemy is and friends were saying. so he went back and re-wrote the beginning by adding in all the little white spaces extra little notes, and then he started running out of space so he pasted little pieces on top of them all, and then he presents that thomas jefferson. i think thomas jefferson never read all of it. that is j

jefferson? >> bob, what have i told you about interrupting me? >> i'm sorry, mr. jefferson.hat... what are you writing? >> it's for the congress -- political mess. doesn't concern you. you may go. >> as jefferson struggles to reconcile the ideal of freedom with the economic realities of slavery, the fight for liberty will soon take center stage in congress, where true equality among americans could become a casualty of war. p?p?h >> what begins as a colonial rebellion against economic oppression becomes a revolution against tyranny. as the continental congress debates whether to declare war for independence, thomas jefferson struggles to put into words what freedom is and whether it applies to everyone. as george washington rides to new york to prepare for battle, he has no idea his life is so close to danger, because even among his own men, some will not tolerate independence. >> was definitely hard for a lot of colonists to choose the continental army, to choose the patriot cause, because the british government is your government. people didn't necessarily change their mi

jefferson project we described to make himself someone. he wants to exemplify how an enlightened republican citizen can become well-informed and can become a part of a new kind of public life based on informing himself. >> he sees himself much as an avatar, an example of all of this and they're sort of an arrogance to this. at the idea that he's the national teacher and an example to people and that's what monticello is supposed to be. if you have been there, you go to the indian hall in the foyer and they're all kinds of paintings and sculptures and everything in the ideas that these are things he brought back with him from france to show to people and he will show people how to be-- to model his civilized behavior and it's an interesting idea to say that im on example of something that i want other people to be and this is how you model yourself and the way to be educational for other people. >> speaking of the consenting self, obviously a whole category of people who were the-- i'm curious having obviously and that gordon wrote the semi

certainly, jefferson denied it. on the other hand, not a foot supposedly this deal consisted of was ever changed. essentially, it was carried, so with a change of the vote, the election was decided a week before the actual inauguration. jefferson would call it the revolution of 1800, felt that changed the nature of politics. he typically claims that it was the unanimous choice of the people when in fact it had been a very close run thing. there is no doubt that the movement of popular opinion was moving toward the republicans and largely in the south. they won in the house votes and senate votes. the fact is, this election made the republican party the party of government for decades afterwards. the federalist party disappeared as a party. we have run out of time, but is there a moral to all of this? jefferson and adams became friends later in life through correspondence. they left their party differences aside and it is one of the great correspondences in history. it ranges not just politics but sciences, gardening

she recorded all that she said and jefferson said. jefferson was sitting beside her.he knew every single member of congress around that table by their face, and all about each of them. jefferson would say, who is that? and who is this? not only he did not know who they were, did not know anything about them. she did not know because she made great effort to learn. she loved being at the center of things. she loved politics. george washington was an immensely intelligent man. he was not learned. not an intellectual. he was a great, natural born leader. a man with phenomenal self command. that is what adams admired most about george washington. charlie: early on, port of who ought to be leading to him.ution, he nominated >> he was the one who said that jefferson ought to write the declaration of independence, and the man when he became president who put john marshall on the supreme court, the greatest chief justice we ever had. as a casting director, he was remarkable. charlie: he could have been a kingmaker of the revolution. qualityngton's greatest during the war was

i'll get to work on it, jefferson. i always knew you'd fold, but our computer said it would be a month until you cracked. me, crack?you don't know i pulleda fast one on you. you did? that's right.you see, i wantto retire. i've been kingof the cleanerslong enough. well, you deserve a rest, jefferson. you've earned it. you see, i respect elderly people. take my mother, for instance. when she got too feeble to work, i let her live with me. no matter how cold it gets up in that attic, i still visit her. you're a regularjohn-boy, winslow. it's my mom. i owe her. i'll see you, jefferson. where's mr. winslow? seeing his boss. i said i'd sell my stores. george, why? well, i just feel like this whole thingis my fault. don't feel like that. take the positive attitude. guilt is its own reward. what does that mean? i don't know. but retiring will be great. i'll be around all the time. day after day after day... florence, look. are those liver spots? don't touchthat pillow. don't forget to dust under the toaster. [crash] i'm just t

he isn't thomas jefferson.adison is much more pragmatic and he tends to read pretty quickly and never held a great library like jefferson. he is a different person. brian: this is a group of people who were at the constitutional convention. you can talk about any of them when you see it up on the screen. it's -- we have charles pinkney who was 29. alexander hamilton, 30, edmund randall mary: you are missing -- randolph, 34. and george mason, 62. mary: you are missing franklin who was in his early 80's. so madison. george mason and benjamin franklin had been the movers and shakers at the time of the revolution. and george mason had the well-known out of virginia for having drafted the virginia bill of rights and very important. madison was ok. ben franklin drives him crazy and he is in his 80's. madison's competitors a little bit at the convention, the people he has captivated is that younger group. charles drove him crazy. as i read the notes there's a , lot of competitive desire for credit, a little jealousy w

jefferson? >> bob, what have i told you about interrupting me? >> i'm sorry, mr. jefferson.hat... what are you writing? >> it's for the congress -- political mess. doesn't concern you. you may go. >> as jefferson struggles to reconcile the ideal of freedom with the economic realities of slavery, the fight for liberty will soon take center stage in congress, where true equality among americans could become a casualty of war. welcome! searching for a great used car? we want one that's well maintained. just say show me cars with service records. find the cars you want, avoid the ones you don't, plus get a free carfax report with every listing. that's the one. start your used car search at carfax.com arrabba's, we've never celebrated our grill like this. for a short time, choose two or three grilled favorites on one plate - like chicken bryan and linguine positano starting at just $15.99. carrabba's. this is how you do italian. looktry align probiotic.our digestive system? for a non-stop, sweet treat goodness, hold on to your tiara kind of day. live 24/7. with 24/7 digestive sup

peter onuf is author of jefferson's empire, among several works on jefferson and he is the thomas jefferson memorial foundation professor at uva. he is thomas jefferson professor at mister jefferson's university. no pressure there at all. "most blessed of the patriarchs," thomas jefferson and the empire of imagination. much conversation about jefferson is on the contradiction between the ideal he imagined for the nation and the details of his own life and one of the strengths of this book is it is not a defense and not an attack. jefferson's aspirations were inextricably linked to his limitations. the book explores his for self perception and does so in part by focusing on the action at monticello which reflects him as a few places can. i am excited to hear from them so i will get out of the way. they will speak 25 minutes and take your questions. it is my pleasure to introduce annette gordon reed and peter onuf. [applause] >> thank you, great to be here and great to be here with my good friend annette gordon reed. she didn't know we were going to be good friends when she first encountered

jefferson makes a copy. i argue that the manuscript looks like what it does today on the pages by the end of the 1790's. manuscript and he and jefferson become presidents and don't think about it for a long time. it's only after mazz ison retires from the presidency in he late 18 teens and goes back about thinking about of his manuscript and fixes it up. madison worried about other people with notes and we know he kept track of who at the convention was still alive. one of his problems one of the people who had pretty good notes, jackson and king, live a long time also and madison said i'm going to publish them. at the end of his life, politics had changed again. he said he regretted the 1790's. fferson was regretting the 1790's. at old midwestern, they look back thrks period where the political world got out of control and they feel bad about it. and madison was flabbergasted by the fact that young men from the south come and visit him and all want him to vouch that their side, the states' rights side was t

he presents that to thomas jefferson. i think thomas jefferson never read all of it. that is just my own guest. what thomas jefferson immediately turned to the part involving alexander hamilton. hamilton had given this big speech where he argued maybe the united states should have an elective, basically like an elective monarch, a person who would live forever. trying to make the virginians looked moderate. thomas jefferson flipped to that part. there are people trying to create a monarchy. from that moment on jefferson is convinced alexander hamilton is enormous danger to the united states and he is secretly trying to have a monarchy. madison started thinking, gosh there are things i wrote in the notes, i gave some speeches i sounded suspiciously all these things jefferson thinks is a bad idea. the book argues that madison took those pages and the speeches and rewrote the pages leaving out the dangerous conclusion he had made so thomas jefferson would not realize he had been more with the hamilton crowd than jefferson thought was advisable when he came back. madison

two years later when thomas jefferson is returning to the united states madison promised jefferson he could read the manuscript of the convention but it isn't finished. madison secretly borrows from george washington the official journal no one was supposed to see and makes a secret cop y of the junior and uses that for this notes. but if you can imagine two years after abbreviated notes you don't know what they mean any longer. so the end of madison's notes bear little -- a lot of resemblance to the journal. he had not written down the important motions in the notes but was interested in what people he was interested in were saying. he went back and added extra notes and then he ran out of pasted pieces over it. he gave it to jefferson and i don't think he had read it. he turned to the parts where hamilton spoke and hamilton gave a speech where he said maybe the united states should have an monarch and jefferson says there are people trying to create a monarchy and jefferson is convinced that hamilton is a danger to the united states and secretly trying to have a monarchy. and madiso

. >> what's his relationship with jefferson. >> he had tremendous admiration for jefferson's political and literary talent. then what happens is the two-party system emerges from this feud between washington's first secretary of state thomas jefferson and his first secretary of the treasury alexander hamilton. jefferson is very disturbed by the growth of federal power and presidential power. he's very disturbed by this literal interpretation of the constitution, and jefferson begins to have secretly orchestrated attacks on the administration. as the 1790s went by, washington becomes increasingly disenchanted and cynical about jefferson. they are really not on speaking terms during washington's final years. most amazingly of all, if you want a sense of how hostile george washington ended up, after george washington died, thomas jefferson visits mount vernon, martha washington makes the statement to friends that the second worth day of her life was the stay thomas jefferson visited mount vernon, the worst day of her life having been the day her husband died. works powerful statement. the

talk to me a little about jefferson.e has been portrayed in the adams series and on broadway as a very weak individual. is that how you saw him? >> no. he is a complex guy and how to play basketball. and what this guy did in his lifetime in won't see again. is name is not benjamin franklin. july judge him on his personal life? should he have done a militia to fight against the british? probably. did he do some things politically to keep himself above board, to keep himself relevant, absolutely. he is such an extraordinary american, deep thinker, so curious, someone who brought so much. one of the great things about this book was going to monticello. when you go there and realize you are scratching the surface of what he achieved in his life i am not going to judge him. i am just glad he is on our team. he was called a pacifist president. he was the unlikely guy to stand up to the barbary pirates, lynne cheney said she concluded maybe madison for saw the grief jefferson took for not getting a militia together to fight for

jefferson makes a copy. i argue that the manuscript looks like what it does today on the pages by the end of the 1790's. , 1790 seven, madison probably puts the manuscript aside. he and jefferson are going to become presidents and they do not think about it for a long time. so it is only after madison retires from the presidency in the late 18-teens that he does back and starts thinking about publishing his manuscript and starts again fixing it up a little bit. madison worried most of his life about other people with notes and we know he kept track of who at the convention was still alive. one of his problems one of the people who had pretty good notes, the secretary william jackson and rufus king live a long time also. and eventually madison just gives up and says i'm going to publish them posthumous way. -- posthumously. at the end of his life, politics had changed again. he said he regretted the 1790's. jefferson was regretting the 1790's. as old men, they all look back on things. this time where the poli

in jefferson's obsession. jefferson was just obsessed with hamilton and he actually -- there's a great set of secret note that is jefferson keeps where he spends all his time recording how he was trying to tell washington how sneaky hamilton was and he records washington's responses and you feel so bad for washington because he's president, he's got all the people in the cabinet and -- and jefferson keeps showing up, hamilton said this and hamilton said, no, i didn't, i didn't say that. you're all trying to govern the country. they had -- they were once very close and then not so close. >> hamilton, maybe it's a good thing because he gets a musical because we may lose bill. >> he's not on any coins. >> there were more amendments than 10, of course, what were some of the others and not adopted? >> there's great trivia about the constitution so one thing that not everybody realizes is that there were -- madison had a lot of amendments and they are down to 12 and sent out to the states as 12 amendments which mean

about jefferson.ey are really not on speaking terms during washington's final years. and most amazingly, if you want to get a sense of just how hostile george washington ended up after george washington died, , thomas jefferson visits mount vernon. martha washington makes a statement to friends that the second worst day of her life was the day thomas jefferson visited mount vernon. the worst day having been the day her husband died. a powerful statement, and then she says to friends that thomas jefferson was among the most detestable of all mankind and martha washington was not particularly political. charlie: why did she say that? >> well she felt that jefferson , had betrayed and doublecrossed her husband. charlie: is that a true portrait of jefferson? >> well, jefferson wrote a letter to an italian friend that ended up accidentally getting published in the newspaper. where this friend who had visited the united states, he says to the italian friend, you would be amazed at the heresies that have spr

jefferson that the notes. because he is so obsessed with hamilton, he thought at the notes were published in which everyone how secretly evil hamilton was and it would destroy hamilton. madison thinking, everybody is still alive and then they will know that actually was pretty close to hamilton at the convention. jefferson will know i was close and it would be a disaster. jefferson keeps pushing madison to revise the notes and to publish them. madison refuses. throughout his life madison refused. eventually madison says i just couldn't have been published posthumously. >> i want to focus again on alexander hamilton. not just because he's got this wonderful new musical, but because even in your talk today and i should know from constitution history, the figure of hamilton perhaps justifiably looms rather large but as you say people obsessed, fascinated with them. tell us more about alexander hamilton. >> want to do things the book focuses a lot on a decade after the convention, those first years, and i think on

jefferson from his obedient servant john jay. and next, a president for mr. jefferson. so thomas jefferson gave his copy to stewart, a scottish philosopher and mr. stewart writes i was told by mr. jefferson the greater part of the papers in this collection were written by mr. madison. >> guest: that is a wonderful book they have there. at the time they were published anonymously but lots of people in the know suspected they were madison and jefferson's and madison sends some to washington and friends sort of hint-hint you will know who writes this. and afterwards as they became increasingly famous, washington used to say they were important, madison and hamilton disagreed over which ones they wrote and after hamilton's death it was discovered that hamilton said he had written some of them and madison said no, i wrote some of them. so for many years there were some historians disagreed on. even today. nowadays most historians agree on most of the essays but some of the ones in the beginning were written by both together. c-span: check out these numbers. i looked it up an

jefferson. thanks again, jefferson. if there's any problem, put him in the corner. he won't beany problem. i was talking to poopsie. right.ok. bye. as long as we know who's the master, right? yes, you are my guest. take anything you want. if you get hungry, help yourself to the maid. let's tie you out on the balcony. ok, let's visit the kitchen. george! oh, hi, honey. i have great news. [growl] excuse me, weez.florence's toast. it's a giftthat keeps giving. what'sthe good news? [growl] what was that? florence's bacon? is there a dog in here? well, i-- it sure smells like a dog's been here. oh, that's florence'snew perfume. is there a dog in the kitchen? not anymore. get that thing out! he belongs tothe whitendales. i'm not getting off this couch until that thing is gone. i'll getyour nightgown. [doorbell rings] hi, george. hi, louise. what are you doing up there? i've always wanted a dog. of course, fish are nice. that dog could take off somebody's head. really? don't be no fool. what do you want,mr. jefferson? set another plate for dinner. no!i want it out by the t

he is under jefferson when jefferson is president. jefferson starts, he is a delegate from virginia, he works on the drafting of the constitution. he becomes president. a little later. he appoints gallatin as secretary of treasury. back then, the secretary did less stuff than they are responsible for now. i doubt that he had a staff of thousands. gallatin comes up with a strategy, as part of his duties. fishman identifies this as a national planning strategy. the idea is that it is an infrastructure plan. this is his athinking. gallatin, remember, this is happening in the early 1800s. this was written in 1808. the country is very new. the whole great thing is just being passed, implemented a little bit. we stillon't have these western states. there is an undefined nature to what becomes the u.s. west of the mountains. one of the concerns jefferson has, in terms of how are we going to turn this into states, how we will turn into townships, it -- isw we will sell how can we connect these? the appalachian mountains were formidable. you c