andrew weissmann, thank you for joining this discussion. ew, please stay with us for the next one, because coming up, it's working. the pressure on clarence thomas is working to the point where he has recused himself for the first time, from a case involving the attempt to overturn the presidential election. which is wife was praying would happen. that's next. >> amy lee copeland, thank you very much for your invaluable local knowledge of the way things work in georgia courts. andrew weissmann, thank you for joining this discussion. and andrew, please stay with us for the next one, because coming up, it's working. the pressure on clarence thomas is working to the point where he has recused himself for the first time, from a case involving the attempt to overturn the presidential election. which is wife was praying would happen. that's next. okay everyone, our mission is to provide complete, balanced nutrition for strength and energy. yay - woo hoo! ensure, with 27 vitamins and minerals, nutrients for immune health. and ensure complete with 3

andrew weissmann, two things here.ry willing now prosecution witness clearly going to be a powerful witness in the case against sydney powell. and also, this issue with bernie kerik, how do you expect that to be resolved as the issue of his testimony approaches? will he get an immunity deal to testify? >> so what you are seeing play out is the when you have a strategy like fani willis's, which is that you indict big, you are putting more pressure on people like mr. hall and mr. kerik and others to cooperate. and you see people starting to point fingers. the same way in that little clip of donald trump pointing a finger at allen weisselberg. you have now tim parlatore, the lawyer for bernie kerik, saying, you know, you might want to give him immunity, because he can help you on the sydney powell deal. but that's, you know, that's a real prosecutorial decision. those are the things where you are sort of paid the big bucks, which is to decide whether you really would give immunity to somebody like bernie kerik. and it's u

tim and andrew weissmann are both msnbc analysts.m, we begin with you again tonight because you are in the courtroom. the most important place you can be to talk about this. tell us, first of all, about that gag order moment. >> one of the most interesting things about that was the -- bustle that proceeded that moment. because, what happened was trump posted this attack on the judges clerk right before the lunch recess. and we saw trump, his son eric, his lawyers, and the new york attorney generals lawyers going in and out of the court for these private conferences over the lunch recess. and the start of the afternoon session was delayed because of it. then, when the new start time happens, everyone goes back into the courtroom, wondering how the judge is going to react to this startling post. and the judge has a sharp change of demeanor, off the bat. this judge is usually very mild mannered. usually cracks jokes in the courtroom, quite jovial. very stern. very angry. and he basically calls out the elephant in the room, talks about w

alex andrew weissmann hasn't been spending as much time with us as usual on this program, but he will be here tonight because there was of course, the guilty plea today, and alex, imagine that you are sidney powell -- i >> don't want to imagine that, but okay. >> that's the way i want to put it, though. it's just more fun that way. and you are still crazy and you have to find a way to show in court today they were still crazy. she found a way to do that when it was very clear that for her a single most embarrassing thing that happened in the courtroom today was not admitting her crimes, which she did, was not saying the word guilty, which she did. it was when she had to see how old she is. >> oh, lawrence. >> and that's the reason donald trump is never going to plead guilty. because you have to say how old you are. >> i feel that particular pain. i thought you were gonna say involved a diet dr pepper or a leopard print cardigan, but there are many other ways that we can find ourselves mortified. >> it's not a subject i want to talk about. >> mean either. >> but if i'm pleading guilty

acting assistant attorney general at for national security at the department of justice, and andrew weissmannr fbi special counsel and member of special counsel robert mueller's investigation. mary and andrew, are, of course, of the indispensable msnbc podcast prosecuting donald trump. it is an honor to have you both here in the flesh tonight as we try to understand what is going on here. alcoholism is a disease that affects a lot of people. we know people, in my family, that have it. and i'm sure there are viewers out there who have grappled with this as well. and my heart goes out to everybody who has had to struggle with this. but i want to focus on the sort of legal implications here. can you just -- mary, the news that jack smith is looking into whether rudy giuliani was drunk in the postelection period. can you talk to me a little bit about, does that surprise you? and what specifically could he be looking for? >> i think, as you indicated in your intro, one of the things that jack smith and his team are trying to prepare for is an advice of counsel defense. but they're also trying to u

we're going to get a first person report of all of that one tonight, andrew weissmann's going to analyze it for us, you know professor timothy snyder is going to join us later, and of course we will consider this unusual day. we will figure out a way to talk about that too with congressman james clyburn, who had every right in the world to think he had seen it all, until today. >> nobody seen it all, apparently, with this house republican conference. unusual is one word for it, my friend. one word for it. >> thank you alex. >> have a great show. >> thank you. >> >> matt gaetz, the 42-year-old republican congressman who overthrew the speaker of the house today, had not been born yet when republican ronald reagan began running against government. ronald reagan was the first republican president to be rhetorically and only rhetorically anti government. the last republican president, elected before reagan, richard knutson, was a very conservative republican. but he believed in the government's capacity to solve problems. nixon willingly signed the legislation creating the environmental prote

andrew weissmann is the former council with the fbi.el robert mueller. both our viewers know you quite well. i want to start with you, andrew. i heard this week that the plea from kenneth chesebro and the georgia case is potentially far more significant than the sydney powell. it may be des surprising. why is that? >> there is no question that both are significant in terms of what the signal. you've got a fraud in the election. it was perpetrated by donald trump and his allies. you have canisters burrow saying that in fact the whole architecture of this scheme of fake electors was a crime. all of that is significant. and you have sydney powell saying that she illegally helped break into the coffee county voting machines. that is also significant. to your question about what this means going forward with respect to the lead defendant, donald trump, that is where i think there is a difference. and that's because we don't know what it is that both of them will say going forward. i tend to be relatively pessimistic that they are fully coope

still with, us andrew weissmann and barbara mcquade. these two gag orders are different things. goron's, the 5000 dollar fine. the response i've seen from many people to that is, one of the 5000 dollar fine for donald trump mean? tell me what the significance of it is? >> the amount of money is nothing. but what he is saying is, look, i credit that you do this inadvertently. you took down the post, social media, but you didn't do it from your website. but the judge had every right to be livid, because what he is concerned about, and what i think all courts that have donald trump is a defendant would be concerned about, is he is language resulting in people being hurt. and witnesses being in danger and threatened and people who are just civil servants, doing their job, having to fear for their lives. all of those are concerns because of the language of the former president of the united states. and so judge engoron was saying look, i understand what was happening here. it better not happen. again it's important to know that he did say that the penalty for this going forward can in

so he can have the first crack. >> andrew weissmann, kristy greenberg, thank you both.as to american israeli hostages are risks are released by hamas. that's next. that's next. i oversee approximately 20 people and my memory just has to be sharp. i always hear people say, you know, when you get older, you know, people lose memory. i didn't want to be that person. i decided to give prevagen a try. my memory became much sharper. i remembered more! i've been taking prevagen for four years now. prevagen. at stores everywhere without a prescription. somedays, i cover up because of my moderate to severe plaque psoriasis. now i feel free to bare my skin, thanks to skyrizi. ♪(uplifting music)♪ ♪nothing is everything♪ i'm celebrating my clearer skin... my way. with skyrizi, 3 out of 4 people achieved 90% clearer skin at 4 months. in another study, most people had 90% clearer skin, even at 5 years. and skyrizi is just 4 doses a year, after 2 starter doses. serious allergic reactions and an increased risk of infections or a lower ability to fight them may occur. tell your doctor i

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how do we solve that, andrew weissmann? want to focus the lens and a light on the enablers. because you know, we would not be here if the gang of eight and the republicans who serve in the gang of eight, the sort of senior leadership in the senate and house who see the intelligence, who understand, who are serious people by and large, who understand how important that is to all of our safety, to not have attacks here like the ones that we've seen in israel, to make sure that another 9/11 does not happen here, there is such a complicity and lack of moral fortitude by people who know better. and the way that donald trump gets away with this is because he plays on fear, on actual fear of violence, fear of losing an election, fear of just being publicly humiliated and denigrated, and at some point you're thinking why did these people actually run for office? wasn't there some core of beliefs that is at the center of their being so that when they wake up and look in the mirror they actually think about the american public and if

former fbi counterintense agency pete struck, legal analyst andrew weissmann, a former top official with the justice department. this would be the proverbial cliche, if you pitched it as a netflix show, tossed out if it was the plot line of your first novel by an agent who said, this would never happen. just take me through, one, what abc's reports, and, two, what in your assessment is the most significt piece of this. >> well, i sigficant this is part of the documents investigation. this story, as far as we know, has nothing to do with an actual document. it gets to what is at the heart of that case, which is what you just spoke about, and that is how trump treated our nation's most sensitive military secrets. it's hard to imagine secrets more sensitive than the capabilities of our nuclear arsenal. so, we know jack smith has spoken to this australian billionaire on two occasions. he has described how trump explained to him the details, at least what he purported to be the details on the capabilities of our nuclear subs, including that particularly sensitive piece of information, which i

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joining us now hour andrew weissmann, former fbi general counsel and former chief of the criminal divisionrk. also with us, neal katyal, former acting u.s. solicitor general and host of the podcast courtside with neal katyal. they are both msnbc legal analysts. also with us tonight, roger parloff. he is a senior editor at lawfare, and he was at the courthouse for today's hearing. roger, we always begin with anyone who heard everything that happened in that courtroom today. what was it like? we have read the transcript, but it seems like the judge certainly at the end, took full control this? >> yeah, it was very exciting. everyone -- in the media room had a sense that this is an unprecedented issue. it is an incredibly sensitive first amendment issue. and that is really nothing -- there isn't a whole lot known on this. it's a little surprising that you think it would come up more often. but we are a party, as opposed to an attorney, is creating this sort of issue. it is incredibly sensitive. and it was an exciting hearing. >> neal katyal, donald trump said today that he is going to appeal.

andrew weissmann, david k.nston, thank you both. >>> coming up, former trump chief of staff john kelly confirms reporting trump considers members of the military to be suckers and sees dead and wounded service members as losers. back in a second. (aidyl) hi, i'm aidyl, and i lost 90 pounds on golo. i struggled with weight loss and weight gain my entire life. with all the yo-yo dieting i did in the past, i would lose 20, 30, 50 pounds just to gain them over and over again. in one year, i've lost five sizes, and i'm on my way to lose another three. with golo, i can do it. (announcer) change your life at golo.com. that's golo.com. (upbeat music) - [narrator] what if there was a hearing aid that could keep up with you? (notification dings) this is jabra enhance select. it's a smart hearing solution that makes hearing aids more convenient and less expensive. it connects with your phone so you can stream calls and music. with jabra enhance select's premium package, better hearing doesn't have to start in a doctor's o

also joining us, andrew weissmann. a former top official with the justice department. er fbi counterintelligence act pete struck is back. andrew, i want to start with you. i know that in the political arena trump's lies have a cumulative positive effect for him. they aid him politically because he lies so many times that his supporters believe that there was some fraud in the 2020 -- whatever the lie is he is telling them. i have wonder in a legal capacity if he is clearly making these stops to raise money, if they are going to bite him in the butt when he tries to argue that he doesn't have time to go to trials because he is campaigning. he is making the trials the centerpiece of his political candidacy. >> well, i don't think that he is going to do very well with the current motions that he has made in d.c. and in florida where he is seeking more time, and what the government has said is transparent effort to ultimately have the trial dates put off. a march date in the d.c. federal case, and a may date in the florida federal case. i don't think it's going to play well

still with, us andrew weissmann and barbara mcquade. these two gag orders are different things. rew, let's talk about judge engoron's, the 5000 dollar fine. the response i've seen from many people to that is, one of the 5000 dollar fine for donald trump mean? tell me what the significance of it is? >> the amount of money is nothing. but what he is saying is, look, i credit that you do this inadvertently. you took down the post, social media, but you didn't do it from your website. but the judge had every right to be livid, because what he is concerned about, and what i think all courts that have donald trump is a defendant would be concerned about, is he is language resulting in people being hurt. and witnesses being in danger and threatened and people who are just civil servants, doing their job, having to fear for their lives. all of those are concerns because of the language of the former president of the united states. and so judge engoron was saying look, i understand what was happening here. it better not happen. again it's important to know that he did say that the penalty

former top official at the department of justice, andrew weissmann, former acting u.s. solicitor general, neal katyal, former "new york times" investigation winner, russ buettner is back. we're going to start with my colleague, lisa rubin inside the courthouse for all of this. tell us how this all went down. >> reporter: today should have been a day where we were really talking about michael cohen es cross-examination but as usual, trump found a way to make it about trump. as you noted and played earlier, in the hallway on a break, trump made a common about the highly partisan person sitting alongside the judge. once that came the subject of the judge's attention, insisted -- we are watching michael cohen come out of the courtroom right behind me right now, we're expecting michael cohen to make a statement to the press. i'm happy to continue talking to you about what happened today, but in the event our viewers want to hear what michael cohen has to say, i wanted you to know he's walking out having finished his cross-examination today. >> let's see what he has to say. w

let's bring in former fbi general counsel, now an nbc news legal analyst, andrew weissmann.he new york times," russ beutner joins us once again. thank you so much both of you. let's start with you, russ, with the very latest on this case. once again, this is not if he is liable for fraud. this is how much he pays for it, correct? >> that's exactly right. there's a few moving parts in this. there's going to be some kind of financial analysis that hasn't been explained yet i don't think about how you calculate the financial benefit that he obtained in doing this. whether that's going to be the hundreds of millions of dollars he obtained or the beneficial interest rate he received on those or a lower rate i don't think it is clear. the attorney general estimated that to be $250 million. i think that suggests it could go even higher than that. >> oh, my god. >> and then add to that what the receiver will do in trying to maintain enough assets and the performance of those assets to make sure he will have access to pay whatever judgment is finally determined. >> well, andrew, also

we will have andrew weissmann and help us pick through. i just left him. i said, listen.t does this mean. you have all these rabbit. holes on my friends with trump -- every time it's a development like this with, the sydney piloting. this is, at this is going to be a thing. and then it comes down to the rabbit hole, trump double judges illegal bullet. when you clear out the brush, that case is not going to happen before november of next year. the federal case in d. c. is the one from march 4th. that's the one to keep your eye. and that's the one that could. happened that could have consequences. so, the powell thing is. interesting it's not going to happen for a long time. >> and you think what happens on march 4th colin impact the election? >> it could it could be the only case that will. it's the only case that's going to be operative before the election. >> what do you think? >> you have to get inside of these republicans. >> okay you too are the ones who know how to do that. so give it. >> i will plead guilty it to that at one-time. it's like crop circles. it all make

legal analyst and the co-host of the x podcast, prosecuting donald trump are cast, along with andrew weissmanny, a lot to get to. judge chutkan's gag order is frozen until at least this saturday, or as early as saturday, while trump's legal appeal plays out. what happens next? >> yeah, and this is not that uncommon. in fact, judge chutkan, back in the trump versus thompson case, the case involving the house select committee's request for presidential records, judge chutkan was the first judge to rule there. she also administratively, reinstated her order because she knew trump was gonna take an appeal, and she thought let's gonna preserve the status quo while he takes his appeal, and that's what she's done here. so administratively, she reinstated until she rules herself, that she she should be state throughout the entire pendency of the appeal, or when the circuit, the appellate court, could also say we are going to stay her order. now, it doesn't mean there is literally no holds bar. it means her order is not in effect. >> yeah. >> you know, he still can't issue actual threats to people, lik

so she imposed a somewhat limited gag order that she did. >> andrew weissmann, you know as well as anyone how we struggle mightily with reporting on trump's statements without amplifying them. i think in this instance it's important to understand what he's telegraphing to his supporters, and what he said, i think, hours before the gag order was imposed. i'm going to paraphrase, because there are nonsensical things in between. you'll get the spirit of it. tomorrow is a big day for democracy, a leaking, crooked and deranged prosecutor, jack smith, who has a terrible record of failure, is asking a highly partisan obama-appointed judge, chutkan, who should recuse herself based on the horrible things she has said to silence me through the use of a gag order, making it impossible for me to criticize those doing the silencing, namely crooked joe biden and the weaponized doj and fbi. he goes on and on. i'll stop there. the point is, you see how critical smearing and annihilating the credibility of the doj, the fbi, judge chutkan and everyone involved is to his political strategy. it seems that, i

let me -- let me -- and i think andrew weissmann shares your legal assessment of her potentially limitedfulness and understanding the broader plot. let me just bring people back into the room with your questioning. it starts with your questioning of her, and this is around the december 18th oval office meeting and her association with team crazy. >> how much time did you have alone with the president, i say alone, you had other people with you, but from his aides before the crowd came running. >> probably no more than 10 or 15 minutes. >> was in that -- >> i'll bet pat cipollone set a new land speed record. >> i opened the door and i walked in, i saw general flynn. i saw sidney powell sitting there. i was not happy to see the people in the oval office. >> i was asking if i could -- the democrats were working with hugo chavez, venezuelans and whoever else, and at one point general flynn took out a diagram that supposedly showed all over the world. >> i mean, at times there were people shouting at each other throwing insults at each other. it wasn't just sort of people sitting around on th

. >> neil katyal, andrew weissmann, thank you both, as always.k forward to having you back. and up next, my conversation with senator raphael warnock about these challenging times we find ourselves in. weiss says it's important that american stand up in this moment. moment. this is spring semester at fairfield-suisun unified. they switched to google tools for education because there's never been a reported ransomware attack on a chromebook. now they're focused on learning knowing that their data is secure. ( ♪♪ ) listen, your deodorant just has to work. i use secret aluminum free. just swipe and it lasts all day. secret helps eliminate odor, instead of just masking it. and hours later, i still smell fresh. secret works! ohhh yesss. ♪♪ choosing a treatment for your chronic migraine - 15 or more headache days a month, each lasting 4 hours or more - can be overwhelming. so, ask your doctor about botox®. botox® prevents headaches in adults with chronic migraine before they even start. it's the #1 prescribed branded chronic migraine treatment. so far,

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chesbrough and sidney powell, each pleaded last meek, it's unclear one at the issues flagged by andrew weissmanne program last week, it's unclear how full that cooperation is. pal seemed to have some kind of more traditional cooperation agreement. with prosecutors, i want to play what rudy giuliani said back in august at the suggestion that is number two, his former lieutenant general janet ellis might flip. he did not react, take a listen. >> i hope that is not the case. >> she was my number two. she was excellent, and she was firmly convinced of the election, she was firmly convinced that the election was over. it was more zealous about the fact that it was a stolen election dan jenna ellis. i think anybody on that team with testify to that, so i would find it hard to believe that she did that. he could have gotten intimidated. >> -- i don't know what that is saying, but she does not want her to flip. it seems to me like if you talk to trump's lawyers, jenna ellis flipping puts squarely rudy giuliani in the sights. >> surely does, but they're also talking about a r. i. c. o. case. anytime you

she's also done that with andrew weissmann.y show. >> nice to be here in person. >> i mean, we've got the three oldest trump kids in the stand. one day after another. i think daddy trump's going to be on the stand also in that trial. what can we expect? >> i think these are going to be the days that really bring the explosive magic. it's kind of a modest affair, donald trump stood outside of the courtroom last week, that was pretty explosive. but i think this is where the rubber really meets the road. we're going to hear from these children, adult children, don junior, eric, who actually run the company. the work that's been going on here. we are really going to have them being grilled about how they valued certain things. whether they were being truthful, and all of this is in service of the ultimate goal, which is to determine the legal penalties because the company has already been found guilty of fraud. so fully liable. >> civilly liable for fraud. i was about to ask, we already know that they're liable for fraud so why bri

andrew weissmann is going to analyze it for us, yale professor tim snyder is going to join us.

alex andrew weissmann hasn't been spending as much time with us as usual on this program, but he willbe here tonight because there was of course, the guilty plea today, and alex, imagine that you are sidney powell -- i >> don't want to imagine th

we're going to get a first person report of all of that one tonight, andrew weissmann's going to analyzeow professor timothy snyder is going to join us later, and of course we will consider this unusual day. we will figure out a way to talk about that too with