i've not had to go to the director of atf. we work very well together and know what our lanes are. >> with that, and i would like to have that document, just to be able to see so we can get clarity of who has what lane, if it's a task force or whatever that may be. i'd like to be able to have that so we can get the clear differentiation. but part of the issue for us as well as we deal with a bunch of issues, we appreciate very much what you do and the folks that are on the street and individuals that literally lay down their life for our country and do that every day and deal with the grief and our nation grieves. we want to have the maximum number of people that are actually engaged on the street both protecting each other and our nation, the least amount of administrative work. so where there are areas of overlap and one entity is related to the area, we'd rather have one on the street and half the administrative cost as possible. so, that would help us to be able to get that perspective. i know there's a lot of focus right

four atf agents are dead. 16 wounded.h an unknown number of casualties inside the compound, including david koresh. >> at this hour fbi agents are negotiating with the cult leader. he reportedly believes he is jesus christ. >> mr. koresh, how are you doing? >> fair to midland. >> i understand you've been wounded. will you describe your position? >> weakening. >> are you shot, sir? >> yes, i am. >> well, communications opened up pretty quickly. he loved to talk. he loved to hear himself talk. >> how is god going to talk to me in the latter days? so there will be no excuse. >> so there was no lack of communication. there was a lack of productive communication. >> there's a lot of children here. i've had a lot of babies the last few years. >> is it true, david that, one of the children, a 2-year-old, is dead. >> yeah, that's true. >> he was so calm to a point where you began immediately questioning what kind of a personality are we dealing with? >> here we are at the day of the lord. god will be in the position for blood. >>

atf atf's 2016 budget request is $1.3 billion which is $60 million above the '15 level. i'm interested how the agency would use this increased funding, particularly in light of recent complaints from hunters and sportsmen who believe that atf overstepped its authority by attempting to ban certain ammunition for recreation use. i look forward to hearing the views and explanations of the witnesses for the details of their 2016 funding totals and working with our committee members to prioritize necessary funding for our federal law enforcement agencies. at this point, i'd like to recognize my friend and colleague, senator mikulski, former chairman of the committee. >> thank you for this hearing today and really bringing the full complement of federal law enforcement before the committee not only to review their budget but so we could first of all truly express our appreciation. we do appreciate every single man and woman who works for the agencies represented here today are so much valued and appreciated and they should do that. we need to do that in three ways, number one,

lawmakers are worried the obama administration is trying to ban a very popular ammunition which the atfs is armor piercing. >> the president has tried to ban this arrival the congress has refused and now it appears that he's takeing his pen and cell phone and through the atf is trying to ban the second most popular ammunition that is used in that rifle. >> reporter: good one of 239 members of congress who signed this letter to atf director specifying concern about the obama's administration plan to benthoal bullets writing "does not comport with the letter or spirit of the law. and will interfere with second amend many rights by disrupting the market for ammunition that law abiding americans use for sporting and other legitimate purposes ". the nra is going further expressing anger with president obama. >> he can't win at the ballot bock. he can't win in the congress. and now he's trying to act like a dictator and planning on forcing this ban on the american public by executive regulation. >> reporter: in the 2008 campaign mr. obama tried reassureing folks he wasn't antigua are gun. >>

>> for us, for atf? sync with doj policy, and we will continue to refine our policies in practice and on paper. >> one final question. there is a decrease in budget on the prisoner detention line item. one reason was the prisoner population decline. in one hand that is good news but can you tell us why you have seen this incline in prisoner population? >> the major contributor is the decline in population, it is also the efficiency and practice. >> any certain population that is in decline in time and attention -- in time in detention? >> the slight decline in immigration, drugs and the length of time it takes to prosecute the case is. it really impacts the dollar. immigration is a faster processing of those cases compared to drugs. it is really that time factor that reduces this. >> thank you. >> thank you. director callomey, i want to thank you for the work you do in counterterrorism. i was there when we created the development of it counterterrorism branch, and i've lost its evolution. i just want to

marshall director and dea administrator and atf director todd jones. they will later each testify about their agencies 2016 budget request. this morning i want to begin by thanking the men and women of the fbi, the dea and the atf who work every day to protect this nation. we're indebted to them and grateful for their service and their sacrifice. in particular i want to express my condolences to the family of deputy u.s. marshall josie wells killed in the line of duty on tuesday while participating in a fugitive task force in baton rouge, louisiana. deputy wells was attached to the southern district office in mississippi and volunteered for this recent task force. our thoughts and prayers are with his family, friends and the entire community for their loss here. the constantly changing landscape of criminal activity at home and abroad has challenged the justice department's ability to deal with emerging threats. we effect our law enforcement agencies to be more nimble and sophisticated than criminals and terrorists they pursue. the goal is to determine

the investigation from the atf started in delaware. they call the bomb squad after finding suspicious materials. the suspect is in custody. we will bring you the latest as soon as we have it. alison: unrest after the police shooting death of an unarmed black man in madison, wisconsin. thousands have gathered in several different protest. friday, 19-year-old tony robinson was shot in his apartment by officer kenny who claims he acted in self-defense. robinson was reportedly fighting and running in traffic. alison: a fraternity was shut down at the university of local home -- university of oklahoma. there was video of the fraternity chanting a racial slur. it also celebrated lynching. the university is launching an investigation to see of their will be additional punishment. the national chapter of the fraternity said it was disgusted by that behavior. alison: bill cosby speaks to fans in a new video. >> yes, i'm going to be in wheeling, west virginia, capitol music call. and you know i will be hilarious. alison: cosby does not address t

the atf said they were within their rights to make a warrantless inspection.a said theirs was just a routine random inspection. did you ever ask any of these agents or agencies why the sudden interest in you and your life? >> no, they were just following orders. >> where did the orders come from? >> there's the question. >> you have been quoted as saying they picked the wrong chick. what do you mean by that? >> that if this is an attempt to silence me, it's -- they've got another thing coming. i know exactly what i'm here to do. and i mean to do it. >> and so she did. in may of 2013 she filed suit against the irs claiming the agency had improperly targeted her organization. in light of obama administration assertion, the thousands of relevant e-mails had simply disappeared from the account of former irs exemptions director lois lerner, she asked for an expedited process in order to find and preserve those that remained. the irs after engaging in what they claimed was due diligence in looking for e-mails asserted they no longer existed. it was later revealed th

he is a former atf special agent. difficult case especially from what we're hearing from people on the ground. that area from which the shots were fired is a dark area. it's on a residential street. it's not heavily traveled. it may be difficult in finding who this shooter is. >> right, betty. it's going to be very tough. police officers across the country are all familiar with handling street shootings. this isn't a street shooting but it's targeted at the police. but they can be very difficult to solve. you need the public's help really to give you some information. they're going to be sweeping their intelligence databases to see if there's anybody that can make it a particular threat to harm officers. they'll be considering that. if they can recover any of the shell casings if it's possible it may be not certain it will be, but it's possible they can do some integrative ballistics identification against prior incidents. they need a witness, somebody to give them a lead on who the shooter could be. very difficult ca

great to have you with us. >> thanks, lou. >> this in prospect, the atf ban on ar-15 ammunition, why hearing more of an outcry about this? >> well probably because thet want the american public to know what this president is trying to impose on them. this is a president that is grasping for straws. he hates the second amendment he hates the fact americans have a constitutional right to own firearms, he can't win at the ballot box he can't win in the congress, and now he's trying to act like a dictator and planning on forcing this ban on the american public by executive regulation. >> explain something to me. why this sudden interest in the 556 so-called green tip ammunition that would effectively then you know wouldn't be available to gun owners, rendering the gun not much use? >> well, he tried to ban ars, he couldn't ban ars from the american public, a popular sporting rifle, so now he's trying to ban ar ammunition. i actually brought a graphic to kind of explain this. >> let's see it. >> the one he's trying to ban is the 556 the small rifle cartridge. the thing is, if he can ban t

and then ones that are concentrating on firearms are run by the atf. all the different initiatives and taskforces, each other, and that is why our four departments and our state and local partners can almost seamlessly work between these taskforces to go after the threat. senator boozman: thank you. ms. hylton, if we reduce the federal prison population, how is that going to affect you guys? director hylton: as the prison population decreases our -- and as all of us fight for gangs to be reduced, i see that population coming in to detention as we address those issues. i think we will still see them in coming. you will see it come back up. senator boozman: thank you, mr. chairman. thank you for being here very much. senator shelby: senator murphy. senator murphy: i wanted to follow up on some of the questions regarding the work that atf is doing surrounding -- following on the law enforcement officers protection act. this was just for the committee's regulation, a peace of legislation that was passed in 1986 why a 421-1 margin, passed by unanimous conse

atf atf's 2016 budget request is $1.3 billion, which is $60 million above the '15 level. interested how the agency would use this increased funding, particularly in light of recent complaints from hunters and sportsmen who believe that atf overstepped its authority by attempting to ban certain ammunition for recreation use. i look forward to hearing the views and explanations of the witnesses for the details of their 2016 funding totals and working with our committee members to prioritize necessary funding for our federal law enforcement agencies. at this point, i'd like to recognize my friend and colleague, senator mikulski, former chairman of the committee. >> thank you for this hearing today and really bringing the full complement of federal law enforcement before the committee not only to review their budget but so we could first of all truly express our appreciation. we do appreciate every single man and woman who works for the agencies represented here today are so much valued and appreciated and they should do that. we need to do that in three ways, number one, giv

that being the case, does not hold too well with the atf . >> they await word from federal authoritiesy allow the sale to go through, or seize the gun? >> they decides that this was a historic artifact that needed to be saved they reissueed a serial number, an stashed in on the gu. jamie: 5 months later, the bonnie and clyde collection, are center piece of the gangsters, outlaws and law pheup auction. men auction. >> my wife and i went to new hampshire efficient the live auction, we had some anticipation. >> we had media from russia, japan, all over europe. these two young people on the roads of america, somehow resonate with the world. it was incredible. >> i was nervous. jamie: what is happening to your heart as you watch it unfold? and what was bidding? >> place is packed. people on telephone bidding, internet bids, it is getting up to 7,000, 80,000, 100,000. jamie: at $140,000, the bidding seems to stall. >> your heart is thinking that bidding is going to stop. but all of a sudden, two main bidders on phone started to bid again. jamie: $1 theft, $200, 2 phone bidders battle it out.

and then ones that are concentrating on firearms, are often run by the atf. they are integrated, and actually, all the different initiatives and task forces complement each other. and that is why our four departments, and our state and local partners can almost seamlessly work between these task forces to go after the threat. >> thank you. ms. hilton, very quickly, because i'm out of time. as the -- if we do make success at reducing the prison population, how is that going to affect you guys? >> well i think there's always criminals ready to come into the system unfortunately on our streets. so as the prison population decreases, our detention population is all contingent on what is brought in. as we all fight for gangs and drugs to be reduced i see that pol lags as coming into detention as we aggressively address those issues that congress has explained. you'll see them go down in prisons, but you'll see it come back up. thank you. >> thank you, mr. chairman. thank you all for being here very much. >> senator murphy? >> thank you very much, mr. chairman. i w

i just want to first thank the atf. you mentioned in your testimony for the amazing work they did in and around the sandy hook shooting, but also just relay a story. i was in that fire house mere hours after the shooting took place and i had a law enforcement officer standing next to me remark that in a way, he was glad that he took his own life because he feared for life and safety of his officers should a shoot swrout have occurred giveren that ammunition, the power of the weapons found on mr. lanza's possession. i wanted to just maybe ask to follow question as to why we were considering this particular type of ammunition in the first place. my understanding that what has happened here over time when we talk about these green tips is that they were initially excemented in part because they were only used in rifles, but now, they are able to be used in handguns. we look at handguns in a different way, giffin that they are much more likely to be used in an assault on an officer. in fact, the underlying legislation speci

a spokeswoman for the atf says the response was more like 300,000 comments. we're coming right back. >>> president obama's department of homeland security release more than 60000 illegal immigrant convicted criminals in just the past two years, and the federal judge who's blocking obama's amnesty fiat accuses the justice department of bald f . lou: a federal judge blasted the obama administration after it saying flat-out that the administration lied to him after they deceived him on the president's executive amnesty fiat for illegal immigrants. at issue why the administration took action to give out more than 100,000 reprieves to those awaiting deportation. illegal immigrants with convictions. and all of that occurring before the program's official start date during a heated court hearing yesterday, judge andrew hanen told the justice department quote, i was made to look like an idiot. i believed your word that nothing happened. the justice department trying to excuse their conduct by blaming confusion for its actions. judge hanen says he is now considering o

of the biggest challenges we faced in holding this auction is picking up the phone and calling the atfes to make the call and set up a meeting at the office to present his case. >> we showed him the gun we had the letter from fred hamer saying he took it from bonnie parker. it had a good case to not be destroyed because of the significance. the case of the strange inheritance hangs in the balance. that's next. i have the worst cold with this runny nose. i better take something. dayquill cold and flu doesn't treat your runny nose. seriously? alka-seltzer plus cold and cough fights your worst cold symptoms plus your runny nose. oh, what a relief it is. and stomachs are growling. or is that just me? it's lobsterfest... ...red lobster's largest variety of lobster dishes all year. double up with dueling lobster tails. or make lobster lover's dream a delicious reality. but hurry this won't last long. yoin fact, they depend on a. unique set of nutrients. that's why there's ocuvite to help protect your eye health. as you age, your eyes can lose vital nutrients. ocuvite helps replenish key eye

the atf said they were worried they could out be used in handguns.ing extending the ban on armor piercing ammunition to this specific kind. 80,000 opinions. the atf says you spoke we listened. it is not dead, but they are deferring it. they will put it in place as soon as next monday. atf will not at this time, seek to issue a final framework. the exception survives. for the people that are opposed to a band veered they point out that it is no more, though less lethal than any other kinds of ammunition. melissa: what is the main point? what is the main point? >> i live in new york city. i am not 100% sure but the point is. i would be lying if i know what it does. the other issue is that it is expensive ammunition. presumably that is way more ammunition. melissa: the high-stakes sexism trials. taking the stand for a third day. cape cod shores. this kind of history a be a limited attraction veered at the end of the day it is all about money. ♪ and why stop what you're doing to find a bathroom? with cialis for daily use, you don't have to plan around ei

you may remember in 1986 atf said it is okay.ow they say because hand guns have been designed that can fire the bullets cops may be more likely to encounter them. as you pointed out 239 members of the house put their names on a letter opposing that ban. the congress refused now it appears he's taking his pen and cell phone through the atf trying to ban the second most popular ammunition that is used in that rifle. >> the chairman of the house judiciary committee. will he keep fighting despite the fact there will be a public comments period. >> what does it mean for the future. how can it be another ban on our rifles and bullets? >> you hit the nail on the head. if they ban this one maybe they ban another or perhaps even more. it doesn't just effect the ar 15 it can effect many on the marketplace. we will be watching this closely obviously especially in the days and months to come. >> thank you, kevin. have a great weekend. >> you, too. >>> it is now time to brew on this. a license to pray? churches in south florida are being told

. >> atf misfire what they say is to blame for the ar 15 bullet band. >> overnight a helicopter crashlled 10 people including two olympians. they won gold at the 2012 olympics and french boxer won bronze at the 2008 olympics in beijing. they were filming a reality tv show in the mountains of argentina with other athletes when two choppers carrying them collided. >>> a moment the past amtrak train is knocked right off its rails. >> oh my god. oh my god. oh. >> 55 passengers were injured when that train rammed into the big rig that was stuck on the tracks. that truck driver getting tracked while trying to make a difficult turn on the tracks. the driver managed to jump out of the truck and the bars came down on top of the truck. >> happened in halifax county there. mysterious voice you have to hear this calling for help. we are learning details about the moment the toddler was found alive 14 hours after the car crashed into the river. >> four rescuers say they definitely heard a woman's voice screaming and begging for help before they reached the car which was under the water but they ca

. >> he had been a philadelphia policeman prior to going to the atf. so, he was not somebody just out of the academy. he had been someone involved in police work for a number of years. >> the atf took no part in this investigation, but personally, avato was dumbfounded when he learned paul camiolo had been charged with arson. to him, it just didn't make sense. >> that finding shocked me. i hadn't anticipated that. it seemed very difficult to explain how the gasoline would be in hardwood floor but not in carpeting and padding above it, if a significant volume of gasoline was poured. >> and avato wasn't the least bit suspicious of paul's behavior on the night of the fire. >> it's not unusual for people in a fire to exit a building through the way that they're most comfortable exiting. if they typically come and go through the front door, no matter where they are in the house, they'll exit through the front door. >> avato told local investigators that he believed the fire was accidental, and he was roundly dismissed. >> they portrayed him in the media tha

a spokeswoman for the atf says the response was more like 300,000 comments. we're coming right back. >>> president obama's department of homeland security release more than 60000 illegal immigrant convicted criminals in just the past two years, and the federal judge who's blocking obama's amnesty fiat accuses the justice department of bald f you drop 40 grand on a new set of wheels, then... wham! a minivan t-bones you. guess what: your insurance company will only give you 37-thousand to replace it. "depreciation" they claim. "how can my car depreciate before it's first oil change?" you ask. maybe the better question is why do you have that insurance company? with liberty mutual new car replacement, we'll replace the full value of your car. see car insurance in a whole new light. liberty mutual insurance. congratulations. you're down with crestor. yes! when diet and exercise aren't enough, adding crestor lowers bad cholesterol up to 55%. crestor is not for people with liver disease or women who are nursing, pregnant, or may become pregnant. tell your doctor al

i want to bring back in jim cavanaugh, a former atf agent. bradley rayford, a freelance photo journalist on the ground who i spoke to just a little bit ago, he said the officer who was shot in the face was conscious after the shooting and moving around a bit. but give us an indication as to how important it is to determine not only where this came from about you the type of gun and bullets that were used. >> right, that's something the detectives will be after quickly. is there any shell casings on top of the hill either outside of the house as bradley described, or inside the house? depending on the type of weapon used, it could be some shell casings there, some other physical evidence as well. foot prints cigarettes. somebody could have been standing there planning to do this. it could have come from inside a vehicle. it's not to say there will be shell casings there. sometimes when you have a drive-by shooting sometimes the casings will be inside the car. but a lot of times they'll stick the gun outside the window and the shell casings wil

a spokeswoman for the atf says the response was more like 300,000 comments. we're coming right back. >>> president obama's department of homeland security release more than 60000 illegal immigrant convicted criminals in just the past two years, and the federal judge who's blocking obama's amnesty fiat accuses the justice department of bald face lies. congressman mark meadows is next. congratulations. you're down with crestor. yes! when diet and exercise aren't enough, adding crestor lowers bad cholesterol up to 55%. crestor is not for people with liver disease or women who are nursing, pregnant, or may become pregnant. tell your doctor all medicines you take. call your doctor if you have muscle pain or weakness, feel unusually tired have loss of appetite, upper belly pain, dark urine or yellowing of skin or eyes. these could be signs of serious side effects. i'm down with crestor! make your move. ask your doctor about crestor. doug. you've been staring at that for awhile, huh? listen, td ameritrade has former floor traders to help walk you through that comple

i want to bring in former atf special agent. jim, you have been watching all of this play out overnight. give us an indication what your first thoughts are when you hear police officers were shot outside of the police department. >> well first concern obviously is for the officers what's their condition, are they going to be okay, how seriously are they hurt. secondly, what's the status of the officers shooter or shooters? because you don't want this to happen again, and you want them to be caught as quick as you can. the reporter the freelance reporter there told you that the shots didn't appear to come from the group of protesters that was obviously disbanding but rather it came from a house on the hill 5 to 700 feet away from where the officers were. you know, like he described and like we discussed, they're in line for a civil disturbance. and of course there's probably lights behind it street lights. they're visible, in ambient street light. so someone who was shooting officers has a very good chance of hitting them.

then on february 28th, 1993, following a gun battle between the atf and members of a religious groupd the branch davidians, federal agents lay siege to the group's compound near waco, texas. a suspected cache of illegal weapons is at the center of the controversy. >> mcveigh was just absolutely in a rage over both of those incidents, but the one thing that pushed him over the edge and turned him into a terrorist was the waco incident. >> at one point, mcveigh drives to waco to observe the siege. >> he went and parked his car nearby and selling anti-government pamphlets, giving interviews to at least one reporter back then about how much he distrusted the u.s. government. >> during an assault by the fbi on april 19th, the branch davidian come pound is engulfed by fire. at least 76 men, women and children die during the inferno. >> mcveigh told us that he was convinced that the u.s. government purposely murdered women and children at the waco compound. it was all part of an effort to destroy gun rights in america. >> the triggering moment was waco. he was there, and he decided that the

in the proposal the atf said manufacturers would be unable to produce ammunition importers unable to ammunition and manufacturers and importers prohibited from selling and distributing. the move prompted rush limbaugh to tell radio listeners that it was a back door gun grab. >> president obama is using executive actions now to impose gun control on the nation. >> reporter: around the nation gun stores have reported buying frenzies similar to that in 2013 when the president urged congress to ban automatic weapons. >> this is the cartridge that is in great controversy at this time. >> reporter: so something like this is what it is designed for? >> yes. >> reporter: the owner of chuck's fire arms in atlanta. he says some gun owners believe all ar-15 ammo will be banned. >> there has been a run with the major distributors in the country. >> reporter: have you seen that too? >> when i say how is it going their comment is we have sold out of everything. >> reporter: in a statement to cbs nuvs the brady campaign said this is not a gun ban but a rule change to protect the lives and safety of

he sent out a bulletin and alert and said we have a call from the atf. they reference the first to bombings in 1978 in 199, brought all this together and realized in november of 1979 we now have the serial bombing case. >> how did the name unibomber get coined? >> the first two bombings were at universities. northwestern university and rpi in new york. the first bomb with the address of northwestern and the second bomb in a graduate student room in may of 1979 at northwestern gave us universities as targets. by the time the bomb was placed on the american airlines flight we knew knew -- we now had universities and airlines so this became as you know the fbi likes to attach these fancy names to its cases it got public attention and certainly did. universities and airlines unibomber. >> we have a chart behind us up all of the bombings. without getting into all of the details what was the sequence of events after the first three? >> after the first three bombings we would eventually have 13 more bombings as the judge mentioned. in 1980 the airline aspect of

citizens put in the crosshairs of their government by agents from the irs to the atf. >> they were lookingr a way to scare us. >> and homeland >>> tonight, how could this be happening in america? citizens put in the crosshairs of their government by agents from the irs to the atf. >> they were looking for a way to scare us. >> and homeland security. >> homeland security raiding a guitar factory makes no sense. >> environmental authorities threatening jail time. >> we're going to use everything in the book to come after you. >> and federal rangers staging a cattle grab. >> fully armed and fully ready to square for a fight. >> what is it like when a powerful force you thought was on your side turns against you? you can begin a struggle that will last for years. >> i'm not the only one, i'm speaking for thousands, maybe tens of thousands, maybe more.

at a basement utility room how it got started remains a history, fire investigators and agents from atf are here all day searching for clues david henry, channel 6 "action news." >> thank you. >>> it was a crack down on dead beat dads today in montgomery county sheriff's deputies rounded up nine men, in total the suspects owe more than $108,000 in unpaid child support, there were some that evaded arrest today can you find out more about that and today's operation at 6abc.com. coming up tonight, a conshohocken police officer is hurt after an accidental shooting involving his own weapon and jeff skversky is live in pittsburgh as villanova gets ready to face lafayette in round one of the the ncaa tournament. cecily tynan is back with more on the exclusive accuweather seven-day forecast. >>> the conshohocken police officer accidentally shot himself in the leg this afternoon trying to put his gun back into its holster, the plymouth township police station while he was processing a priss more is he in stable condition. >>> students suffered minor injuries in a school bus accident this morning

it was approved by the atf earlier this year. maryland official says they are concerned about misuse especially by minors. alison: lots of conversation about a picture on social media showing children climbing on the vietnam women's memorial. posted on facebook, it shows children climbing is a veteran in a wheelchair sits nearby. some are calling a disrespectful , all the way to kids being kids. the memorial is dedicated to women, most of whom served as nurses in the war. leon: facebook is launching new features, including ways to track online purchases. you also may be soon allowed to control devices such as your garage door. facebook will also support videos shot using camera technology. alison: brad bell did something today that few others have a chance to do. he held a two-month-old black bear cub. maryland department of wildlife resources were there checking on the mother. while they were there, they weighed and tagged the cub. the black bear population is growing and they are showing up in more populated areas as well. look

justice operation choke point irs goes after the conservative non profits, epa growing after cole and the atf, it goes on and on. >> it it is a pattern of lawlessness as mike pointed out. this administration makes up the law as it goes and when they get caught says, we didn't know that, we learned it from the newspapers and then they promise corrective action which is never taken. the abuse of the irs, going after at any time people, hiring rogue agents and the like targeting conservatives it just goes on and on. >> john as usual has an answer and as usual it comes out of his libertarian lay book. just close down the fidc, right? >> this is the inevitable result of government getting too close to banks, it's obviously weakened banks and politicized how they take deposits and everything and the easy saen is to close down the fidc. if you were to do that there would be private insurance companies a day later insuring deposits it would be the most seamless transition. get government out of this you it fix it. >> i love the simplicity of that solution. do you think it would work? >> yeah, i agree

if arson is expected on a fire this size they usually call in federal atf agents to help with the investigation, but so far they are not involved here. david henry channel 6 "action news." >> all right david thank you. >>> church deacons in burlington county are figuring out when they withhold services after their church went up in fire. the eastern bible church is on fire here, it's a quaker meeting house that dates back to 1811, one pastor lives next door and he got out of bed after he suddenly smelled smoke. well until the meantime the church's roof is gone and the offices are damaged however the sanctuary appears to be okay and nobody was hurt. the cause is still under investigation. >>> a firefighter suffered a minor injury after a call in camden county fire broke out at the wayan terrace apartments in collins wood, they alerted tenants and pulled the fire alarm. the cause of the fire is still under investigation. >> philadelphia police need your help finding a man who tried to rob a woman who was ordering her dinner, police say the woman was at the counter of the great taste chinese store

joining me now is jim, retired a atf agent and msnbc law enforcement analyst.ou for here here jim. >> thanks rev. >> jim, the suspect has charged. they have a gun, they believe he used, but authorities say this is very much still an active investigation. what are they looking for? >> well first, people aren't necessarily criminally culpable if they didn't pull the trigger or conspire with them. they need to come forward and talk to the detective. maybe they want to get an attorney to come forward. they be witnesses but not criminally culpable. they could be. could be co-conspirators. certainly the police are looking for any other physical evidence besides the gun, the casings, anything else they found with the search warrant. >> now, the shooter was more than 100 yards from the police and there were protesters in between them. what does that tell you, jim? >> well i agree that he's -- i don't think this guy's a protester. he's an infilltrateor really. came down there, might have walked down the street close to, and infiltrated, a better term than what the chief

the atf has used this authority very wisely very prudently.ned in the way they've dealt with it. this is a very limited step that will only effect -- and really it's an incredibly minor inconvenience for a small minority of gun owners out there. >> and just so you understand i'm not posing these questions to you as someone who's just straight anti-gun. i get it that there seems to be this duality going on out there, either you love guns or you hate guns. i'm a gun owner, but i'm saying at what point do you draw the line about what you need to shoot or hunt? if these bullets are armor piercing, you're saying all rifle cartridges can do that. reading about m 855, it's not an ordinary rifle cartridge, it is fairly specifically designed. at what point do you draw the line about how this isn't necessary for what we use weapons for if we're using them in the right way? >> well this ammunition has typically been used for target shooting for predator control, shooting prairie dogs. it's not the kind of ammunition that you typically find in a gun fight

. >> we have now on the phone a retired atf special agent in charge. good morning to you, jim. this was a peaceful demonstration turned violent. in how are we going to figure the scene? ferguson. >> we have to have help from the local citizens. they have to help police to find the shooter. a person or persons shooting at officers like that it not only dangers the police but the lawful protesters witnesses, journalists on the scenes who are dodging the bullets as well. the danger the situation needs to be brought to justice. we need to find out who did it from the witnesses at the scene. >> how much at stake does this put the police officers? the reporter said it looked like it was an intentional shooting for the police officers. they had their gear and were not anticipating any kind of violence but what does this do to change the scene out there? >> well, the response from the officers once the shots were fired at them i think was very professional. if you look at what happened they did not fire back into the darkness. they did not unleash a barrage of gunfire. they took cover