bible that this is where much of the bible history was taking place where the jews settled for thousands of years. they just found a synagogue and a little base with a relief of a menorah on it. these were people that visited the 2nd temple back in the time of jesus. it is like they are uncovering more and more bible history. >> bible comes alive in the holy land. >> you are there. >> amazing place to be. it is like the stones are crying out affirming what we know the bible says. >> god speed to you as you return to the middle east. thank you for joining us. >> thanks, gary. >>> coming up next, how god transferred a new orleans gambler into a soul winner. here his amazing testimony that has tched millions around the world. >> now a story of a life well lived. 1 man's decision for the lord transformed his family and millions around the world. john jessup takes us on a grandfather's vision for ministry and he passed it down through the generations. jo grooms lived for 36 -- he did 180 degrees. >> mike grooms thinks back on life with his dad. >> my earliest memory was getting up early in the morning to pray. i am talking, 4 or 5 o'clock. my dad talked loudly to the lord. >> god transformed jo from a new orleans gambler to a soul winner. he told people about jesus and kept him away from his wife and c

the way that the bible bible presents him the bubble presents him as being lord we must tell that to the world present him as being the only savior for the world for mankind the bible present him as the healer as the great physician the bab present him as a god of love and so many other things what we're doing in marketing of jesus christ is presenting jesus in this way in other words the viable way so whichever means we do it through whether it's a website television literature stand in a street corner talking to people at work in the office or anywhere else communicating the message it's all about presenting jesus in the way the bible presents him yes but also i mean it let's be fair it's a business too i mean you have to have a business model and i am not casting any aspersions on your work not whatsoever but you know in felling this message and the the idea is associated with this person at the center of this religion you do have to have a business plan don't you. well yes on the one of course they're different of the people in the world they're the genuine genuine christians who want to present and from what jesus christ correctly and there are those who want

bible. >> in the bible, quest was known as the most -- arch enemy of isrealites. that is where they discovered the altar. >> that is the corner of a large stone altar. the biblical description the altar with the 4 horns. >> cbn news at the dig site when a korean theology student uncovered the first horn of the altar. >> beautifully made out of stone. this is an astounding find. >> prof. aren maeir of bar-llan university is leading the excavation and 100 archaeologist are part of his team. >> we are excavating here levels which date to the iron age equivalent to the period of the first temple in jewish history. very sophisticated culture. an urban-oriented culture. urban isrealites were simple twieb tribesman. >> goliath is the most famous residents. >> isrealites were facing a group of people probably much more organized, much more sophisticated and had the military upper hand. >> years before david killed goliath, samson took his revenge by collapsing a temple with his great strength. >> it is a philistine temple. it is reminiscent of samson knocking down the pillars. u>> other proof shows the destruction of the city around 830 b.c.>> hundreds and hundreds of vessels in these houses. we can connect this to an event, 2nd kings 12. the king of damascus campaigned, captured god. >> many won't say their work proves the bibleoord deny the facts on the ground, julie news, tel es-safi, israel. >>> egypt christians fighting for the future of their country. how they are teaming up with unlikely allies to help secure their freedom. >> protesters in egypt are calling for change. >> some believe the revolution is being hijacked by islamist. gary lane reports, country's coptic christians are joining the political fight from keep thatting from happening. >> another massive summertime protest in the square. this 1 after hosni mubarak. >> it is good news to go to the streets again. to protect the revolutions, muslim brotherhood hijacked the revolution. >> they are moving towards an islamic state. that is the belief of coptic spokesman magdy khalil and many other egyptians believe there is a political deal with the muslim brotherhood. >> they are looking to protect, their position, who can accept this situation. muslim brotherhood? muslim brotherhood won't look for plan to control whole egypt. >> magdy khalil says the

bible says. the bible says that there is a husband and a wife and that's how we are to bring up our children. >> man marrying man, woman marrying woman, we're against that. not only that we're against it but god is. >> the march began on park avenue outside of the office of governor andrew cuomo who had championed the bill. today's talk back question? should president obama forget congress, just raise the debt limit? christina says, yes. he should. obama has done everything he can to work with the republicans and all they want to do is get him out of office. at all cost, even if it comes to bringing the u.s. down. more of your responses up ahead. >>> if you haven't booked your summer travel yet, you could end up paying a lot for for these last-minute plane tickets. allan chernoff is here with tips to help you save money that is me. i always buy these tickets at the last minute. help me out. help a sister out. >> well it is going to cost you, but we have got a few ideas here. >> okay. >> we checked with the travel site fair compare.com. they tell us there have been 13 fare hikes this year but there is some good news here. most of those fare hikes came earlier in the year and many of the recent ones have been withdrawn. rick seenny at fare compare says the summer travel tips are these. first of all, when you fly it really matters. many airlines will add surcharges on the busy days, so what you want to do is be flexible. here you go tuesday, wednesday and saturday are the cheapest days for domestic flights. friday and sunday, the most expensive days. so suzanne, if you have some flexibility, i don't think you do, but if you do have -- >> not that much. >> could you save a little bit. what about times to buy the tickets? is there a best time to shop, maybe? >> yeah, of course, you will need to shop while you're working, but this is what you can do. as long as the bosses aren't watching. fare compare crunch the numbers, they found that prices are lowest at 3 p.m. on tuesday. now, most of those discounts will get pulled on thursday, so you don't want to wait until the weekend to be buying the ticket. >> okay. who knew, 3:00 on tuesday. unbelievable. >> right. set your outlook. >> okay. once you figure out where you're going, you got a departure date, any other tricks that you can do to lower the price? >> well, rick seenny recommends buying tickets, get this one at a time, even if you're booking travel for a whole group. this is certainly a halls, but he says when you buy more than one ticket, the airline reservation systems will price all the tickets equally at the highest price. so if you buy one at a time, you can get some cheaper seats. and essaying that it could save you, theoretically, hundreds of dollars. honestly, to me, sounds like a huge hassle. >> and if you just can't avoid a last-minute flight is there any way to save money on the last-minute flights that you've got to book? >> right. well, okay, here are a few strategies. first of all, the airlines sometime does have last-minute deals on offpeak round trips, for example, thursday to monday, saturday to tuesday. again, what you have to do is you have to be flexible. you can also try to buy tickets using miles or points, so if you don't have enough, you can always go to the airline website, buy some extra miles. and here's another idea, you can look for packages that actually include hotel stays, even if you're not planning to stay at hotels, because seam seenny says many packages offer these combo sites that are actually cheaper than the airline tickets alone purchase ted very last minute. >> those are great ideas, i got book a flight for friday, make sure tuesday, 3:00, i'm online, trying to figure it out. thank you, allan, appreciate it. thanks again. >> good luck. >>> there is still time to vote on the story would you like to see in the next hour, text your vote to 22360, text 1 for afghanistan's female voice, mom is making a mark in independent journalism, making her voice heard in a country where women generally are silenced. text two for the last drafty retires it wasn't his choice to go to vietnam but he stayed in the army for almost four decades or text three for the history of cocaine from miracle cure to dangerous narcotic. dr. sanjay gupta is tracking the history of cocaine. winning story is going to air in the next hour. >>> deadline on the debt crisis grows more urgent with every day which bring us to today's talk back question and carol costello who joins us from washington, hey, carol. >> yeah, i got the responses back, at least some of them. the talk back question today, suzanne, should president obama forget congress and ratz debt limit? this from michael if there is a way you some say there is, for obama raise the debt ceiling, i say do it linking the debt ceiling to all these spending, cutting plans is insanity created by the gop and some reason, bought into by the democrats, a pox on both. this from adam, if he can do it legally, he should use the executive order and end this nonsense. gw bush would have done it for sure. this from barack why would we raise the debt ceiling is if no money is going it toward paying down our dealt? makes no sense, i say let's default and get it out of the way sooner rather than later because it's happening regardless. this is from kyle to do so is a subversion of the democratic process as it was designed by the founding father but then again, the founding father assumed that those who held elected office would actually manage to not be insane, hell-bent on wrecking the u.s. economy. thank you for responses, facebook.com/carol cnn. please continue the conversation. i will be back with you in 15 minutes. >> carl, you can't go yet, you got to stay, stick around. >> i'm ready. >> favorite segments for you, carol. >> i am ready. >> okay. this is a doozy. old furniture sculptures, you have anything like that lying you around? >> yeah, but it's all junk. >> you would think, right? you think it is junk. the guys from "antiques road show" stopping by atlanta next week, i got my own junk, check this out, gave the best news to this guy, out of tulsa, they praised a collection of rare carved chinese horn cups between 1 and $1.5 million. >> what? >> i'm not kidding you. they are from the late 17th or early 18th century, most valuable appraisal in the show's history. gout any rhino-horn cups laying around, carol, anything like that? >> i don't know, i'm going to look in every corner of my house. rhino stuff. you know, your junk, somebody else's treasure, really, check it out it is really kind of amazing. and i also want our viewers to check this out, too. checkth is cool, not a tech person here, look, you got to check it out. if you are away from your tv, still watch cnn newsroom right now on your phone, computer or ipad what we are watching here. you can see the show, any of our cnn favorites, live on the go so you got to check out cnn.com/florida video or just download the app and go. see? i mean it is like live tv on your ipad, on your phone, pretty cool stuff, carol. >> it is cool stuff. >> see, you can do it. >> you just did it, i'm proud of you. >> you know, i'm so afraid of technology. look we done this did this >> she doesn't even know how to operate her stereo. >> stereo? now, i'm more sophisticated than that i do have album, i have albums, it is a shame, but true. so check it out. all right. we will have more. we will have more with carol after the break. i will be back. 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[ female announcer ] ask the doctor about your loved one trying the exelon patch. visit exelonpatch.com to learn more. >>> top of the hour, i'm suzanne malveaux. i want to get you up to speed it is now 6 p.m. in oz low, norway. people are gathering for a march through downtown in memory of the 76 people killed, dozens wounds in friday's deadly bombing and shooting massacre. here's what one survivor remembers. >> translator: i was hiding and pretending that i'm not alive. it became quiet. he came to me because i heard his shoes. i held my breath and i didn't move. i heard a shot and i felt like a kick in my arm. i knew that he shot me, but my body wanted to protect me. i didn't feel any pain. i didn't feel anything. so, i could lie calm and not move. so he thought that i was dead and then he walked away. >> the man suspected in the deadly killing spree was in court briefly today. the judge said anders breivik admitted to the attacks and also claimed he worked with two terror cells. that claim has not been confirmed. the judge order breivik held for eight weeks in isolation until his next hearing. >>> the clock is ticking in the debt limit cries is cis. looking at live pictures there, no deal by august 2nd means that higher interest rates for all of to us and a financial mess for the country. talks over the weekend essentially went nowhere. now, republicans and democrats are working on separate plans to raise the debt limit and reduce spending. the deadlock over the debt ceiling is giving wall street a case of the jitters. stocks are trading in negative territory today. right now the dow jones down by 54 points. asian markets closed lower on fears of a possible u.s. default. >>> a hotel maid goes public with her allegations of sexual assault. she is standing by her claims against the former head of international monetary fund, dominique strauss-kahn. she spoke to "newsweek" magazine and robin roberts of "good morning, america." strauss-kahn denies assaulting her, diallo insists that he did. >> stop, stop this stop this. but he -- he won't saypushing m to the hall way, back to the hall way, keep pushing me, i was so afraid, i was so scared. >> what do you want? >> i want justice, i want him to go to jail, i want him to know you cannot use your power when you do something like this. >>> four teams are badly hurt after being mauled by a brown bear in the alaskan wilderness, taking part in the national outdoor leadership school when they came across batter and her cub night fall. they followed protocol by calling to the want bear bus it didn't work. >> we got on scene, we really, for the first time, saw what we were dealing with and they were mauled, very severely. >>> los angeles fire investigators looking for a possible arsonist in connection with fires in north hollywood. crews pout putt out more than a dozen fires over the weekend, all in the early morning hours. most of them involved vehicles in carports. all right. so get ready, get ready for some football. nfl owners and players, they have now agreed on a new labor deal, expected to be approved in a vote that's going to happen later today. facility does open as early as tomorrow. >>> well, christian eglin, he was among the first to let the world know what was happening friday in oslo. these are some of the first scene he is of the bombing that he actually sent to us. he was in the building that was right next door to the targeted government building and right now, he is in the middle of a march for the victims. christian, if you can hear us, i want to thank you, first of all, for those amazing pictures that you sent. i know that that was very difficult to do during that time. you were part of this march that is taking place. give us a sense of what the mood is like today. >> sure. thanks for being on your show. you know, i've never seen a scene like this before. it really feels like terror has attacked the downtown ofs level we are up to maybe 100,000 people here. people are supporting one another, talking to one another, giving each other hugs, talking about what happened. you know this feels like a national bonding time right now. >> what do you want us to know about your country, about people in light of this devastating event? >> i would say that -- be by the way, i'm positively surprised that despite the tragedies like this we are coming together like never seen before. we are hurt but certainly not defeated and i really think this is going to make our country and our society much stronger in the long term. >> christian, how are people coping? do they feel any comfort from all had this attention they are getting over this tragedy? >> absolutely. you know, within the country, even abroad, people from all over the world are sending their thoughts and prayers and giving us confidence and comfort to get through this. this is really just fascinating. this is, i would say revolutionary in many ways too. this is very positive. >> christian, we are seeing some of the pictures of what's taking place on the ground. can you describe be what people are doing right now amidst in that crowd? >> sure. people are still coming into this main town hall area, main streets in oslo. it is packed. people are walking, people are holding flowers, roses, holding around each other, smiling. this feels a little bit like our independence day unfortunate lakers bad circumstance but we are sticking together and we are going to handle this. >> christian, finally what is it that you need? if there's anything you can say to us and the people on the ground what is it that they need the most now? >> people outside of nor way? >> where you are. >> i'm sorry, say that question again, please. >> what do the people of norway need, those people that you are walking with now what so is the most important thing that they need? >> right now, we need time. we need time to come together, talk about these things to deal with it, it has been a tragedy it is still a tragedy. right now, we just need time and support from within this country and from the rest of the world. >> christian aglen, thank you so much for being with us, we really appreciate your time and obviously, your perspective and we wish you the very best for those who are there and during this time. >> thank you. thank you very much. >>> well, here's your chance to talk back on one of the big stories of the day. today's question, should president obama forget congress, just raise the debt limbity? carol costello, she's got more. hey, carol. >> boy, i do ever have more? but please, first, allow me to be crass. the popular topic on twit they are weekend was fu, washington. i doubt you're shocked about that after seven months of scathing political attacks countless meetings between the president and lawmakers, half a dozen plans, there is still no debt ceiling deal. bottom line, house speaker john boehner says if a deal is not in place by wednesday with, the country could go into fault, snag could cause interest rates to shoot up and stock prices to plummet. so if there is no deal by wednesday what should president obama do? bill clinton says he ought to invoke the 14th amendment. clinton says the 14th amendment the authority to raise the debt ceiling without congressional approval. president obama has thought about it. >> i have talked to my lawyers. they don't -- they do not -- they are not persuaded that that is a winning argument. >> so, does that sound like a no to you? maybe it is not a. no the president ignored the white house lawyers on libya, so he has done it before, right? he adopted a tenuous interpretation of the war powers resolution so why not adopt a tenuous position on the 14th amendment? the talk back question today, should president obama forget congress and raise the debt limit? facebook.com/carol cnn. i will read some of your comments later this hour. >> thank you, carol. >>> a rundown on some of the stories we are working on straight ahead. first, same sex couples now allowed to marry in new york, so how far does the new law go? we are going to read the fine print on the wedding certificates. >>> and the carnage in norway brings back memories of timothy mcvachl we are going to exam mint threat of right-wing extremism in this country. >>> and then, britain mourns one of the most talented singers. we wait to see what killed amy winehouse. >>> plus, we are going to tell you what's behind this man's crazy decision to ride this way. >>> he may sleep on the streets in denver but one music finds a home for his music on i tunes. ♪ [ marge ] psst. constipated? phillips' caplets use magnesium, an ingredient that works more naturally with your colon than stimulant laxatives, for effective relief of constipation without cramps. thanks. [ professor ] good morning students. today, we're gonna... ♪ hey, gramps, what do you got in there? well, a trout lure, a set of dentures, broadway albums. you know -- stuff. yeah. about that. that big wheel behind us... yeah? he's got a flat-screen, swivel chairs, and a fridge. oh. hey, man! can we come over tonight? it's surprising just how affordable an rv vacation can be. visit gorving.com and get a free video. or see an rv dealer. go affordably. go rving. >>> debt ceiling crisis is turning into a real cliffhanger. the outcome determines whether or not you end up paying more high interest rate, whether or not the economy takes a major him. the talks over the weekend, they stalled. now, democrats and republicans are working on separate plans. senate majority leader harry reid's plan calls for $2.7 trillion in deficit reduction. does not include tax hikes opposed by republicans. house speaker john boehner, he is expected to propose a two-step plan, $1 trillion in spending cuts while raising the debt limit through 2011, then a second stage tied to tax reforms and entitlement changes. the white house says that president obama, he opposes any short-term deal that requires a second vote in the midhall of the 2012 elections. treasury secretary timothy geithner says you got to act. >> back in january, more than seven months ago, we started this process of working with the congress to get them to raise the debt limit so we could avoid a default crisis it has taken us seven months to get to the place we are now, we are almost out of run way, not nowhere, but almost out of runway and we can nut knot put the american economy through this -- >> is that a no? >> take a closer look at the politics behind the debt limit deadline. john avlon is cnn contributor, senior political columnist for "newsweek" amount daily beast. john joins us from new york. john, you and i, i mean, it was amazing to watch, when you think about it over the weekend this game of chicken that was played out very dramatic, yet president obama coming out, you had speaker boehner following, both blaming the other for dropping the ball. give us a sense why are both sides really digging in over this point about whether or not it is a short term or long term deal about the debt? >> there is a bit of denial about the government, a bipartisan plan is all that can pass people. i think president obama has shown good faith in negotiations, particularly by pushing for a long-term flan would deal with entitlement reform that is an historic concession for a democratic con session to make to a republican congress. the sticking point has been that some republicans who realize that any big plan needs to raise revenue are even saying closing tax loopholes would be counted as a tax increase that, of course is philosophically forbidden that is a fundamental breaking point. right now debate, suzanne, as you said is whether we have a short-term plan and go to become this before the presidential leeks or try to have a long-term plan that would get us past the presidential election and deal with our long-term deficit and debt, high-stakes stuff. the reality is our politics are being hijacked by hyper partisans with real fiscal consequences on the brink of this cliff. >> seems like it is political, when you think about, talking about whether or not this can happen before or after 2012, very important time with the election. we saw these competing news conferences, appearance by the president, speak pear reid and others throwing out their own plans, getting involved in this. do you this think that there's real dealmaking that's taking place here or is this primarily for show? >> certainly washingtons into shortage of kabuki theater but this kabuki theater has consequences. we have known this deadline was coming up for months months now. when negotiations fell apart friday afternoon that sent a really bad sign not just to the market bus people watching these negotiations closely. i think everyone response anybody washington realizes that the debt ceiling needs to be raised. you have some debt ceiling denie deniers, don't worry about it, fall off the cliff, maybe some political advantage in that for them, a sick way of viewing politics. i think at the end of the day people know tough get the room, the big sticking point now, a short-term plan, a band-aid or try to get a long-term band pushed forward while raising the debt ceiling as soon as possible? anyone with a credit card bill understand this, this isn't a sign of fiscal discipline not to pay your bill it is economic i will lit ras say deeper hole overnight i interest rates get jacked. >> take it out of washington for a bit, how fed up are the american people over this? >> increasingly and we should be this is not a fiscal crisis this is a political crisis. we areth is a self-inflicted wound we are applying to ourselves, our economy and full faith and credit. people at home, work every day with people with different political believes, you know you sit down, define the common ground and you build on it you find a way to reason together them look at this dysfunctional culture of hyper partisanship of washington, d.c. and concluding that washington is broken they can't do the basic stuff even when we have a gun to our head, even when pedaling towards a fiscal cliff. >> wonder if they will shoot that gun what everybody is wondering, self-inflicted, shoot the gun. john, thank you. appreciate it. . >> thank you. >>> three great stories, only someone going to air. the chance to choose the news, here are your option, in a country where women's voices of the gone unheard, this afghan mom is making a mark in independent journalism. number, wasn't his choice to join the army but it became his life. he served his country for almost four decades, now the last drafty is about to retire. number three, you know it as a dangerous drug but century ago, sigmund freud was calling it a medical cure for mental illness. dr. sanjay gupta takes a look back at the strange life of cocaine. winning story will air later this hour. with diabetes, it's tough to keep life balanced. i don't always have time to eat like i should. that's why i like glucerna shakes. they have slowly digestible carbs to help minimize blood sugar spikes, which can help lower a1c. [ male announcer ] glucerna. helping people with diabetes find balance. >>> wedding bells were ringing all over new york this weekend as the state officially began allowing same-sex marriages. the first couple to tie the knot in new york city was 77-year-old phil siegel and 85-year-old connie cuppola, they had been together for decades and finally married at the city clerk's office as a crowd of onlookers cheered them on. >> it was just so amazing. it's -- it's the only way i can describe it. i lost my breath and a few tears and it's indexrirable. >> not everyone was celebrating the new marriage law. thousands in new york marched with the national organization for marriage to protest the weddings. >> that's not what the bible says that there is a husband and a wife and these how we are to bring up our children. >> man marrying men, woman marrying woman, we are against that, not only -- not only that we are against it but god is. >> march began on park avenue outside the office of governor andrew cuomo who had championed the bill. whether new yorkers like it or not, same sex mar search at new law of the land in that state, how far does the new law go? i'm joined now by avery friedman, civil rights attorney to take a closer look at the letter of the law here. avery, thanks for joining us here on "newsroom." i want to put this into context f a couple gets married in new york, say and then crosses into another state, is the marriage still valid? >> no. and that's actually the big question, suzanne, while new york did pass its law and there were mean that were married this weekend, 44 other states do not have same-sex marriage laws. so in the example that you use, if someone gets married or got married in new y

. >> that's not what the bible says. the bible says that there's a husband and a wife and that's how we're to bring up our children. >> men married men, women married women, we're against that. not only that we're against it but god is. >> well, many of these protesters are irritated that lawmakers didn't go to the voters like other states have done and despite local opposition, today there has been no stopping the sprint down the aisle that hundreds of same-sex couples are making. as we mentioned before, we'll go live to a same-sex marriage officiated by mayor michael bloomberg a little later on this hour. >>> i want to turn now to the tragedy in norway and the disturbing window into the mind of the man suspected of killing at least 93 people in a pair of terrorist attacks there. ♪ >> images from a 12-minute video reportedly created by anders beari bearing breivik. there's a 1,500-page manifesto that was published online the day of the attack. he's expected to plead not guilty. meantime norway's prime minister led a memorial serv

bible. >> safer: for instance, this spectacular bible, commissioned in 1476 by the duke of urbino... >> janz: ...who wanted to have a very fancy biblego. >> janz: and this is what he got. >> safer: library curator timothy janz tells us the bible took years to make by hand, letter by letter, picture by picture. >> janz: decorated with real gold. >> safer: it's just one of the library's 80,000 handwritten manuscripts from the ages before the printing press. add to that those two million or so printed books, christian and pagan, sacred and profane, in virtually every language known to man. there are thousands of prints and drawings, windows on the past. and a huge collection of ancient coins-- this was the money of palestine 2,000 years ago-- including the kind of silver coins judas was said to have been paid to betray christ. here is a map of the world, drawn 50 years before columbus; at its edge, the towers of paradise. and an immediate best seller, columbus' description of his voyage to the new world, published in 1493. in a certain way, the library is kind of the attic of western civilization. >> father michael collins: it's so tru

especially if you want to learn and he's getting me into more about god and jesus and got me a bible and we do bible and personal savior? >> yep, right when i first started coming here, i totally decided to let him fully in my life and i got rid of all my sins and blessed him for everything that i've done and what i have to become. >> that's the first part. you accepted. now it's time to let you go and let him work through you and change you to let you become the person he wants you to be. >>> coming up, marc gonzales makes a surprising new discovery about his new cellmate. >> when i first found out it kind of took me off guard. i was like whoa, okay. >> and a judge decides if paula rivas can leave jail. will roam the earth. that's seven devices per person. this will change how we work in ways we've never before imagined. what do you need to secure your people, their devices, and your business? a network that can evolve and grow to protect your human network. a vacation on a budget with expedia. make it work. booking a flight by itself is an uh-oh. see if we can "stitch" together a better deal. that

bible says that. i'm fairly convinced that the bible says if you reject me, i'll reject you. >> some evangelicals sayl doesn't give enough importance to the passages where biblical authors describe god's judgment toward sin. >> when they talk about god's great love, it's always set against the backdrop of god's righteousness, god's wrath, god's holiness. >> i think what happens for many people is they heard about the judgment before the love. but if you start with the love and the judgment flows out of that, god's love is for us to flourish in god's good world. for us to flourish in god's good world, judgments have to be made. well, that then now that puts judgment in s properlace >> many evangelicals have been severe in their condemnation of bell. some even called him a heretic. >> we care about people, and people who have grown up in the church, who have sung these same songs, who are being won over by somebody who has produced great videos and is a good communicator but is ultimately teaching a false gospel. >> what made people mad about rob bell was that he calls himself a conservative evangelica

bible both the loyalist ministers and the evangelical patriotic ministers. they use the the bible to justify their positions for revolution. now it's really interesting about the pro-patriot ministers of the day. they often, you know, had fun playing around with the bible. you know, things like slavery throughout the nation of the christian church is understood as sort of slavery to sin, slavery to our sin naturings. suddenly slavery takes on political means with verses like that and things like liberty which is freedom from sin, freedom from the devil or say tin becomes liberty and friem from george the iii so there's a lot of sort of -- i don't want to call it manipulating because i don't want to be in a debate about how to interpret the bible here because it's out of my pay grade a little bit, but clearly the ways in which they interpret the bible, many of the patriots, do not conform in the ways of which the christian church a millennium before interpreted the passages. the anglicans are biblical literalists. romans 13 says submit yourself to government because government comes from god and says in that chapter we should pay our tribute or taxes and submit to the authority. there's this huge debate over the meaning of the bible in these passages, a

bible, you don't think of passionate sex like oh, the bible? no, god is so engaged about our sexual relationships that he wants to be able to put an end to the 40 million marriages that are in sexless marriages. talk about the book. passionate and erotic. we show our audiences in this dvd series. >> it sounds like you're not just trying to target the christian audience but you're trying to reach the secular audience as well and say, hey, look. you know? the bible isn't necessarily what you think it is. >> absolutely. >> it really is a lot more exciting. take a look. here is how i perceive and how i want to portray it. >> whether you are of christian faith or not, there are principles that apply to love that are pliblapplicable. god is the author of love. he wants to be able to experience that love in its debt, in the essence of it and why not better than go to the author of the manufacturer of it? so this is not simply a christian perspective if i can say that. but it's a universal language because most of us want to experience that impact, that kind of love. >> i never heard of a web-based evangelist until i met you. a fascinating approach to the show and to the bible. thanks for talking to us about it. it's actually a dvd series and you can check it out online. thanks so much, thai. >> thanks so much, kyra. >> you bet. >> if you want to find out more, here is where you can check it out. all things religion, cnn belief blog at cnn.com/belief.

bible. some christians relationship to the bible. some people of literalists. they believe in the literal interpretation of the world. some are liberal and think this is the suggestion of the moral identity, and we must not adhere strictly to that. we, can interpret them andndpply them in ways that are edifying. we can't assume we know the one to one correlation between the founding fear, the constitution and what we do today. >> for instance, the first amendment, the controversial, in some quarter, ruling by the supreme court this week, regarding violent video games for children. there are many parents who have been sort of outraged by that. yet, it's framed in a basic first amendment right. is that an example of something that is obvious? it should be like that, or is that also part of the struggle to figure out how to match 200 years with today? >> i think it was important not to collapse the distance between 200 years and today and understand the history that's come in between the two. there's this great moment, if i could be preserved in a vat of madeira w

bible both the loyalist ministers and the evangelical, patriotic ministers used the bible to justify their positions for revolution. now, it's really interesting about the pro-patriot ministers of the day is they often, you know, had some fun playing around with the bible. you know, things like slavery which throughout the history of the christian church has always been understood as sort of slavery to sin, or, you know, slavery to our sin natures. suddenly it takes on political meanings. or things like liberty which had always been understood in the new testament as sort of liberty and freedom from sin, from the devil or satan quickly becomes liberty and freedom from george the iii. so there's a lot of sort of i don't want to call it manipulating because i don't want to get into a debate about how to interpret the bible here because it's sort of out of my pay grade a little bit, but clearly the ways in this which they're interpreting the bible, many of the patriots, often do not conform with the ways in which the christian church for a millennia before have interpreted these passages. of course, the anglicans, you know, they're biblical literalists. romans 13 says we should submit ourselves to government because government comes from god. it even says

bible. >> it was a moment when we have moved away from the medieval world and moved toward the renaissance. >> it is one of the first items that greets visitors and the jefferson building. >> another famous bible is the one that president lincoln used in his inauguration. >> lincoln was on his way of moving to washington. >> president obama used this bible his 2009 swearing in. >> there have been other request for bibles. there was a very famous event a few years ago and which the first modern day muslim member of congress asked to use the koran from thomas jefferson's collection for a ceremony. >> including the contents of his pockets on the 90 was assassinated. >> the only currency you was carrying was a $5 confederate bill, a couple of pairs of glasses, a small wallets that contained numerous news clippings. it is a moment in his life that it's captured. he had been further south of washington. did he carry it with them to remind him of the struggle? all of these questions. it also marks a moment of his assassination. much in the way that his life marks the sort of moment of his presidency and america is moving forward. a life mask -- he had developed a technique that made it more comfortable to sit under a and allow the process to speed up. >> the rare books collection contains many literary items, including collections of walt whit

bible. a lot of stuff he was using seminary, no offense to seminary, but he didn't believe in the verbal analysis of the bible. he didn't believe in the literal second comings. he was not a literalist at all, and they were suspicious of him, but there's a lot of stuff that's going wrong, and they see his overall impact that they've take p over, and -- taken over, and i would say there's a lee git mat -- legitimate claim on it. one is radical, and the other is the letter themselves as a whole, the publisher gave a cover of it. himself from within, and he always identified with it, but you could never look out. little closet-sized cell and writing prayers that are much used and hymns now in hymn books of catholics as well as everybody else, and i think just the fact that his spirit, you could use the wore soul survived the circumstances had a strong impact on people today. the one is the whole book and the other is the late theology, final letters. >> sir, you had a question? >> yes. thank you. when you say he was generally a pass is vies against it, he was trying to be part of the firing squad, and you notice how he had a cop flick with the lutherans about supporting government. well, jesus wiped out authority in mark 10:34. that's why he couldn't resist hitler notary public violencely. -- nonviolently. >> good question. i'm glad i don't have to write a book about jesus. [laughter] i don't know any place one text makes a lot of. jesus' own texts are nonviolent throughout. there's all these things, and he's rarely been followed all the way dietrich bonhoeffer made an appeal to that. probably his greatest book is the cost of discipleship which is nothing but his interpretation of jesus and the sermon on the mount. there's a line in there where jesus says you follow me, it's your risk. when jesus christ calls a person, he calls him or her to die. he was that devoted to what's there, but he also enjoyed the life that jesus also enjoyed. >> he could have died either way. >> but that -- >> he could have died either way, nonviolently. >> yeah, it took him a year and a half to get to him, but yes, he knew his doom. if you're trying to shoot the head man, you're doomed. they had all the power, and they got him, so there's nothing, no other alternative for him. he could only live by his witness. thank you. >> another question. sir, thank you. >> as one who is not even sure how to spell, dietrich bonhoeffer, know little about him. what led up to his imprisonment and final death. why was he in jail? >> okay. great question. by the way, when you should spell dietrich bonhoeffer. my name is marty, m-a-r-t-y. >> yeah, i heard of you. [laughter] >> you should hear the people in taiwan pronounce it. why he was in prison -- first of all, he was a resister all along, and those people in the reform churches that resisted were marked. everyone knows only appear for him was martin, a very -- a u-boat captain of world war i and he says first it came for labor, an i didn't speak up, and then he came for the jews and i didn't speak up. finally, they came for me, and there was no one left. i think that he was with that movement from 1933 on, and so he's a marked man, every move, the more records we have, they knew every move he was making. well, they thought they knew every move along the way. finally, he was caught -- some of you following news may know the name of a very major conductor who was a nephew of bonhoeffer. they had his number. one of his sisters were married to a jewish lawyer, and they had to leave for london otherwise he would have been killed. all these things raised a flag, and i think he would have been put in prison anyhow, but the death penalty waited until the attempt on hitler's life. when they got all the files, bonhoeffer was in what was like the cia. they smuggled papers there. when a different faction came over, and he was found out. >> yes, sir? >> you mentioned that universities in europe became secular, but africa became religious. the more educated part of population became secular, but very uneducated, became very religious, and yesterday professor christopher lectured here and said people who do not believe in evolution should not use cell phone. [laughter] the point is this, if you don't believe in science, you should not use it. you can pray. [laughter] >> i believe in evolution, but i also use the cell phone. well, that's an extreme statement of the case, but there is something to it. in general it's been not only evolution, but many other features. i did editing of a six volume study on fundamentalism around the world. what interested me was all across the board they were critical of moo derpty -- moo modernity. there's better radio, internet, television, and so on. you put the worlds together in very different ways. the generalization is true. a mar -- majority of people in higher learning do this. darwin said when i started out in science, i put my beliefs on paper in a drawer, and then years later i pull it out, and a lot of people in science do work at it and think fresh thoughts about religion, but your generalization is generally true, but i don't think the state is uneducated. again, if i took you to -- i taught at cape town the year before the change, and the leaders of the christian resistance and a couple jewish physicians there to the government were the top scientists. they were at the hospital where christian was and i have seminars with people, in fact, six different religions. everyone is there, hindus all the way back to gandhi's time. communists, catholic protestants, black, colored, everything. we studied the different religious views of human rights, and they were highly educated people and highly intensely religious. i think it depends on what you devote yourself to, and if you're a busy scientist, that's what you devote yourself to. >> having read these three books and partial list coming in the series, there's certainly an opinion in parts of the academy that there are still -- there's much to be learned from understanding how the great religious texts of many faiths bear on the world today, and partly what we see around the world too is people acquire literal sigh and the urgency to ask questions in new ways, and we see that too in many institutions that are rejected for the first time because somebody gets the ability to ask questions. it's an interesting phenomena that makes books like this no less important. sir, you have a question. >> yes, i would pretend i'm with audiences who work at a think tank and not unemployed. i hope i'm not the only one here that's not unemployed. the other fellow mentioned christopher hill, co-author of the book that talked about physics. he thinks global warming is a problem. i mentioned my interest in equipment that i got from my late father, as well as classical music, i wish i could mention that's not one reasons i don't have a girlfriend. there's a cd player and amp fieres and christopher said he wanted a stienway piano himself. there's difference between long term and short term trends. if people were different than they were yesterday, it doesn't necessarily mean they'll be more religious. not being a scholar or genius and trying to come up something worth your hearing, how long will people believe in bible or verbal tradition about faith when there's not the miracles that occurred in the bible that prove virtually god exists like the parting of the red sea, and even a silent film and the roy specific effects department did a good job. i saw that part. they used gelatin and they burned the path and like john fullton did in the later movie, they reversed the film. i like specific effects. >> [inaudible] >> how long will people believe -- >> i got the heart of your question, and i'll give a quick illustration, in 1960 the book came out "near the year 2000." wonderful book, early use of computers just coming in, and he -- they, hudson institute put it together, and the book starts with long term multifold trends, and moping them, the first 18 were about secularization and religion. the future of the world will be that everything will be determined empirically. there were about 10 adjectives. the empirical concrete pragmatic, a whole list of things. then he says because they were not dumb pe

bible. abraham lincoln was raised on text pre-much, the bible and shakespeare. we have lost the are. we need to learn from the left in order to fight them and we can do. we can fight the battle. we need your help, your money, your time and your child to come to hollywood, make it actually opened up once again. we have to in the primetime propaganda. thank you very much. [applause] >> we'll be glad to take questions or i have a few thoughts during this. number one, you have given me a reason to actually like lyndon johnson. and i can't imagine retesting cbs as a conservative broadcasting service. i'm sure there are a few rendered would like to do that. we will take questions. we have a mic. we will start over here and then he will take the rest of them. >> you said in fact the people who watched the shows that highly racist or, call in either middle of the road or conservatives. why are they watching and doing good things for the advertisers if they're being offended every step of the way? there's a disconnect between what you said and the reality of advertising which is unique to ple

bible belt. nashville is a place where gospel music goes out. bibles are printed and produced. they feel like it is a direct premeditated assault on really the heart of christian america. >> host: if that's true, then why did the city council approve the mosque? is it all dollar and sense or political correctness or a combination of the two. >> guest: great question. i think it's a combination of political correctness and ignorance. i interviewed the mayor of rutherford county, tennessee, where murfreesboro was located. he didn't know the first thing about islam, about the muslim brotherhood. didn't know anything about the funding sources to this mosque because they still have not come clean about where the money is coming from and that's a common theme in all of these mosques going up. these controversial mosques. they can't tell you where the money is coming from, and i saw the congregation in murfreesboro. this was cab drivers, college students, some professional types. i hate to stereotype but really i didn't see the means to raise millions of dollars. i mean, it just didn'

bible in a way because of the way people respond to text. i guess i want to respond that it's not like a discussion to the bible. i think part of our problem is that we read books like their religious text. you know, religion in and of itself is irrational, you believe it. i'm a christian. you believe it and even though you can't scientifically prove of us have come you believe what you believe. too often when it comes to our heroes, we read about them and internalized stories about them as though they are a religious figure and a deity. and we cut off our critical faculty and we become infested in perpetuating certain myths. it happened with martin for many years through that process that we don't even remember how much people were invested in a mythology about martin luther king jr., who had to be humanized over decades that we now recognize that missing and feared dead as the state we're at now with this task. you can never fully understand raw the product of competing narratives. we all know we talk about ourselves a little to differently than how other people would talk about it. you're reading a biased tex

to suggest that this sound like a discussion about the bible because of the way people respond to text but it is not like a discussion about the bible because part of our problem is that we read books like they are religious texts. religion in and of itself is irrational. i am a christian. you believe it even though you can't scientifically proved it you believe what you believe. too often particularly when it comes to our heroes we read about them and in internalize stories about them as though they are a religious figure. so we cut off our critical faculties and we become interested in perpetuating certain myths. it happened with martin for many years. we have been through that process we don't remember how much people were invested in a mythology about martin luther king jr. who had to be humanized over decades of recognize him as a man. that is the stage we are at with this text and i loved it because precisely as dr. dyson said as a competing narrative you can never fully understand any human being. we are all the product of competing narrative's including those about ourselves. when you start reading an autobiography we all kn

bible is be fruitful and multiply. it seems to me he was right in that groove. >> but t t bible also says when you're praying, you shouldyourself. >> he wasn't bringing -- i suppose he was bringing attention to himself. but trying to direct it to other things as the father said. >> he certainly got a lot after tension. >> really, he directed it to god. smokin' hot god. we're talking about prayer here. >> god created a beautiful human being and he's grateful. >> gentlemen, fascinating to have both of you on. i know we'll do a lot more in the future. i look forward to it. >> thank you. >>> coming up on "gma" this sunday morning. a much lighter topic, the doggy drama queen. we'll tell you more about this incredible canine actoto from the divine to the also kind of divine. i can surely make do with less than two. and that's how sharing works. cause sharing means caring. and caring means sharing. and sharing means caring.♪ ♪ and that's how sharing works.♪ vo: bk minis are easy to share, ♪and that's how sharing works. vo: but that doesn't mean they're easy to share. ♪and that's how sharing works. get yours at burger king, bef

bible presents him that other presents him as good lord we must tell that to the present him as being the only savior for the world for mankind the bible present him as the healer as the great physician resent him as a god of love and so many other things what we're doing in marketing of jesus christ is presented in jesus in this way in other words the viable way so whichever means we do it through whether it's a television literature stand in the street corner talking to people at work at the office or anywhere else communicating the message it's all about presenting jesus in the way the bible presents him yes but also i mean it but speed fair it's a business through i mean you have to have a business model and i am not casting any aspersions on your work whatsoever but you know in filming this message and in the the ideas associated with this person at the center of this religion you do have to have a business plan don't you. well yes on the front line of course the difference of the people in the world are the genuine genuine christians who want to present them from what do you just price correctly and there are those who want to make money and therefore they see marketing as a means by which they can persuade people to buy their products and you listed a few already but there's many others as we know they want to buy their products because they want to make money so their motivation isn't to win souls or to change their lives or to cause others to come to jesus as their lord and savior but it is to profit that's where i draw the line with those type of people ok philip y

bible. in this case, it's a bible app. >> yes. >> for ipad.nny, funny, sex scene. you guys spend a lot of time in this movie naked. >> we actually are more clothed than we are naked. >> uh -- >> i love it when people point that out, particularly. >> that's the scene, yeah. >> this is the scene. but how did you guys develop the chemistry and then move on to those bedroom scenes? >> those scenes were shot at the end of the production. but while all of those scenes are very awkward to shoot, we sort of found solace in the fact that we were required to make them goofy, funny, awkward. we wanted to make those scenes real, but, you know, it's kind of that thing when you're first starting to get intimate with someone, all of those awkward things happen, and as you develop a relationship with them, you go back and go, remember that, and we didn't talk about it? yeah, that happened. >> but you're laughing through it. mila, easier to play than a romantic type scene? >> 100%. because we didn't have to be sexy or attractive. we just had to be goofy. and,

bible has as many admonitions to kill in fact any one of the ten commandments if your kids talk back to you take them out in the public square and kill them the bible has as many of those things as the qur'an may have that's you know and second at the day after nine eleven the world was united with us in downtown tehran iran they had a candlelight vigil in support of the united states the not not just the vast majority of virtually universal majority of muslim leaders around the world have repudiated these kinds of terror terror attacks well under simply wrong about the reaction in the muslim world on nine eleven i've seen video footage in gaza for instance where palestinians were celebrating the single exception emptying out candy you don't find anything like that i mean universally scenario like exceptions ever the muslim or was it islamic terror is only accounting only accounts for six percent of all terror attacks in the u.s. and since one thousand nine hundred isn't isn't t.h.s. looking on iran. well if you look at the koran there's a command from almost through mohammad slay the idolaters wherever you find them so if you masturbate that's the first commandment in christianity if you ask a christian what command jesus were you following when you bomb this abortion clinic you will get dead silence there is no command of jesus to take out the infidels but there's a lot of this that i can i come not to bring peace i come with a sword that's the quote that's most of all i think people who are who are bombing abortion clinics or who are blowing up people in the name of jesus and you know that the first commandment of the commander but is that if somebody is an idolater they should be put to death well it's time now you're talking about the old testament you can bring out a jewish theologian to debate that's not fair to your boss and is a christian does it if a christian does it what command of jesus christ is he obeying if the muslim does it i can find you one hundred nine commands in the koran tells them to take out the infidels and again this you know these are both archaic religions brian the there are in modern day people are not modern day christians are not stoning their children because they're they're speaking back to them and you know or selling their daughters into slavery simply because the bible says that you can be done and most moderate at least the vast majority of modern day christians i don't know maybe there's crazy mormons other data and the vast majority of of muslims are not in any case i think we've we if we've pretty much covered this brian thanks for being with us the new york times let's hope that the one guy who's working on domestic terror but one guy at the department homeland security doesn't decide to take a vacations but there's another problem here and that's the media nasser jason. was arrested for plotting to fort hood texas. skys a muslim and you know he was apparently planning something really nasty had guns and he had bombs and you know kinds of you know the stuff that happens and the media went nuts today i mean absolutely nuts take a look at this montage. the arrest of an a wall muslim american soldier he's been on the run since two thousand and ten arrested today with allegedly plans to possibly set off two bombs near fort hood in clean texas law e

bible as a reason that women not only should be equal in ford nation be playing sports what do you think about that. well i mean obviously that's ridiculous you know we don't generally allow the bible to tell us what we're going to do with our gender roles in the modern society anyway women are allowed to speak in church they're allowed to take leadership roles they're allowed to teach they're allowed to hold jobs they're allowed to use birth control certainly they can play sports and in fact i would say that sports is good for women it's not only good for young women who have lower teenage pregnancy rates and higher graduation rates when they purchase street smarts but i think that women should look at this isn't as a life time thing that's good for their health good for their bodies good for their competitive spirit well why amanda has on society not embrace this view i mean why why is that not equal yet here we are in two thousand and eleven. well i think it's because words have always been framed as sort of a male thing and i think that part of that has a lot to do with competition one of the fun things of for me of watching the world cup is watching women just get in there and

bible the end of the way in which it was shaped and jesus wasn't born when it said he was and the stuff you read part emmons work now before jury, the stuff in the bible written by paul wasn't written by paul and all that stuff, at the end of the day you may still have a faith that is sustained in the midst of the deconstruction, but the deconstruction of to give you a different sense of how the text was produced if we talk of the professor notion of the black box of production because talking about the black box assume there's been a crash, too and the clash between our understanding of intellectual process these you bring the scholarship possible and the faith assertions and the professor is right on here that manning takes the cosmology and the theology of the nation of islam which makes just as much sense as any other religious assertion that's been put out there so i would end by saying i don't think you have to give up alex haley's book but you have to give up what you think about the book and when you thought it did and what malcolm said about himself. where do you begin? at the beginning. to begin by seeing that lives are lived in constant and repeated affirmation of ideas put constantly evolves. that's why frederick douglass had to write three autobiographies and had he lived he might have read more. we have to give up what we think about it and then begin to use that taxed differently with all the stuff that manning brought to us. [applause] i was going to also suggest that this sort of like a discussion about the bible because of the way people respond but i guess i want to suggest it's not like a discussion about the bible because i think part of our problem is we read books like they are religious text. religion in and of itself is irrational. you believe it even though you can't scientifically proved all the stuff you believe what you believe, and too often particularly when it comes to our heroes we read about them and internalize stories about them as though they are a religious figure and so we cut off our critical faculties and become invested in perpetuating certain myths and it happened with martin for many years it's just we've been through the process and sometimes we don't remember how much people were invested in the mythology about martin luther king jr. who had to be humanized so we now recognize him as a man, and i think that that is the states that we are at now with this text, and i love it because as dr. dyson says the competing narrative, you can never fully understand any human

bible as one of our prized possession. it was the first example of printing with a metal type. >> the bible is the moment when we moved away from the medieval world and we look forward to the renaissance. >> it is one of the first items to greet visitors. another famous bibles the one that president lincoln used at his inauguration. >> it was acquired by clark of the court. the reason is lincoln was on his way moving to washington, and was moving in transit. >> president obama was useed ths bible at his inauguration. >> representative -- as to use a efferson's jus collection. >> lincoln was carrying a small what it contains numerous news clippings, some positive, some-, e negative, it is a moment in his life where these questions, if he have been further south from washington in the days previous, said a souvenir, to be carried with him, to remind him of the struggle these questions at the vault, and it marks the moment of his assassination in the way that his life a few months previous in his presidency, when the conflict seem resolved. the life mask was done by a man who had among other things developed a technique that made it more comfortable to sit under a plaster, something that allowed the process this leadup. >> rare books collection contains in ma

bible stated. yet the republicans always talk about christianity. christians in the bible were taught to help their neighbors. host: geraldine, republican caller in pennsylvania. caller: good morning. i want to remind everybody that the constitution was written to restrain the government, not the people. it goes to the separation of church and state. that was set up so there would be no state religion. it does not hamper religion in any way. whether we want to practice on a street corner or anywhere we want to. i am so tired of people misinterpreting what it was all originally about and it certainly does matter and it will matter as long as we have a country. host: bob wright's from venice, florida -- what'd you think, tom, in miami? caller: thanks for taking my call. i've been watching 30 years and i appreciated getting in. the question is does it matter or whether it should matter? it should matter. whether it does is debatable. it's all about we the people. seems like conservatives don't even read the constitution or the dictionary or history. they talk about original i

bible. >> it is the moment in which we have moved away from the medieval world and we begin to look forward to the renaissance. >> the bible as one of the first items to greet visitors in the great hall of the jefferson building. another famous biblethe rare books division is the one the president lincoln used at his inauguration. >> it was quite -- it was acquired for him by a clerk in the supreme court. lincoln was on his way, moving to washington, and his belongings were in transit. in president obama is this possible for his 2009 swearing in

bible is right about discipline. you spare the rod, you spare the child. i had to get tough. >> there is debate whether that exists in the biblend i will have to talk about that in the next segment, okay? that is the next one. let me ask you, what are you advocating here? are you advocating spanking, a smack on the cheek or as soon as the baby comes out of the womb you're giving it that look you better listen to me or you're going to know what is coming? >> i'm advocating discipline. whatever that discipline means to the parent. what i don't think is that we should be allowing kids to dictate what should happen in the environment. they are not the center of the universe. they are wonderful people, they are wonderful, cute created tours but the center of the universe. i think if we teach the kids early to become part of society and not society rotates around them, i think that is better for everyone. you won't have teachers having to be forced to spend so much of their teaching time disciplining undisciplined children in the classroom. those children's can be more focused on teaching. those are the kind of progressive things i