again, a smaller number than the margin boehner had. but mccarthy looks weaker because the gop is so much weaker now. they blew their touted red wave with a historically terrible showing in nochl we remember watching kornacki at the board. there wasn't any wave, a fizzle of extreme candidates and political malpractice. they usually buck trends that fave the opposition party. that fizzle is the reason why mccarthy is going through his living hell of groundhog day this week. at times that historical context may have gotten lost. boehner would have been stopped with exactly this kind of thin margin. so if you're looking at this and saying, mccarthy is so much worse at doing this than boehner that's a math thing, not a leadership thing. now, boehner's opponents ultimately did oust him, and his successors, if you remember, fared even worse. there was a member of his leadership team, eric kanter who lost to a rookie in a primary. there was the much vaunted paul ryan who found his speakership hobbled by the same extreme wing to the point it wa

speaker boehner called them the chaos caucus for a reason. that's what they do best. >> appreciate your candor. i think you know the other person on the screen, david plouffe, you both worked for different people in power and you had a lot of clashes, boehner and obama having clashes over all sorts of things. and yet, david, do you disagree with anything maura just said? >> no. the last time it was with obama and boehner, mcconnell was in play and so was schumer. the thought this group of house republicans will find a way through things like the debt ceiling at a time, by the way, the economy could be heading to a recession already, so that will intensify that, accelerate that, could crash the global economy. i think this might be entertaining for some. to me it scares the day lights out of me. i think this is only going to get worse. whether mccarthy gets through, how many speakers are we going to have? how much authority are they going to have? congressional negotiations, one of the things leaders do is speak for their caucus. i don't think

john boehner reappointed me to the committee. speaker ryan reappointed me to the committee so again i don't want to validate the smears. kevin mccarthy is making claims about something that two prior speakers had access to and speaker boehner was briefed on and didn't say anything kept me on the committee and doing what every other american would do if they found that somebody like this chinese individual -- [inaudible] [inaudible]

look, we kind of saw this with boehner.d these experiences where there were some members usually from the hard-liners wouldn't vote for boehner and sweated it out where he barely met the number. this is much worse. >> things are more hard line -- >> more hard-liners and the margin is smaller so right now it appears that kevin mccarthy does not have the votes. he has five that publicly declared they will not support him plus 9 or 10 others out there maybe opposing him but many of these guys, they made it personal. they've made it personal with mccarthy. you know, mccarthy can make concessions to them. he can appease them, but it will never be enough. >> it seems like mccarthy has based on the reporting manu raju and others, he asked some what is it you want and they don't have an answer. >> they don't want him. that's the issue and like i said it's largely personal and i think maybe it's partly geographic, he's from california. much of the caucus is from the south and texas so i think there is a little geographic politics he

john boehner reappointed me to the committee. speaker ryan reappointed me to the committee so again i don't want to validate the smears. kevin mccarthy is making claims about something that two prior speakers had access to and speaker boehner was briefed on and didn't say anything kept me on the committee and doing what every other american would do if they found that somebody like this chinese individual -- [inaudible] >> book tv every sunn c-span2 features authors discuss in their latest nonfiction book. at 8:00 p.m. eastern, the upcoming book, why congress? examine how to address the challenges it faces. at 10:00 p.m. eastern, republican congressman buck says that tech companies are hurting commerce in his book, crushed. watch book tv every sunday on c-span2 and find a full schedule on your program guide, or watch online anytime. >> c-span now is a free mobile app picture in your unfiltered view of what is happening in washington, life -- life. stay up-to-date with live video coverage of the day's biggest events, from live str

he commended boehner, supported boehner. boehner was essentially just tossed by this group and, if you can take me through that, what brought us to paul ryan and how quickly he assembled the votes? >> yeah. thanks, neil. i was there when that happened. when boehner decided he wasn't going to run again or step down. neil: right. >> everybody thought it would be ascension for kevin. turned out not to be. a lot of different issues. we literally went on break. we didn't know boehner agreed to stay on but we doesn't know who it would be. it took paul ryan, if you heard the paul ryan was in a street stand, he thought about, agreed to put forward. he didn't really want to. this is something he didn't want to. if you have person don't want to be speakers classic movie ending, i didn't want to be speaker but here i am. if you doesn't want to be speaker, tomorrow you and i put in the speaker position, you have to gear up from ground zero to run one of the largest organizations capitol hill, third in line to the presidency. don't have

boehner had 242.arthy is the least talented of these three politicians who are on the screen right now. he will have 222 republicans. and as eugene just mentioned, there are 14 house republicans who are either no or maybe no. and most of them are insurrectionists. gosar, dan bishop, andy harris, so several of those, most of them are insurrectionists. and then you have a bunch of also insurrectionists if you look on the screen, the ones with the stars are the insurrectionists. only a couple who are not insurrectionists who are against him. so he's facing a whole bunch of people, and david, just talk about this. as somebody who has opposed him in the past when he tried to be speaker, how humiliating is it that he's having to beg matt gaetz when he's not asking for pardons for maybe trafficking a teenage girl, he's wielding power over the maybe next speaker? >> yeah, joy, and i would start with your comparison to boehner and ryan, because boehner and ryan had something else that kevin mccarthy doesn't ha

remember, john boehner disagreed. if you go back to that clash over a decade ago, speaker boehner was telling the rebels to their face, that kind of hijacking would hurt them all. >> john boehner is cracking the whip. he conseend meeting of all 240 house republicans today. sources there tell abc he had a blunt message for tea partiers. get your [ bleep ] in line, he said. i can't do this job unless you are behind me. >> they ultimately handled that debt. different republicans drew different lessons, though, from the standoffs. republican leaders from baner to paul ryan saw a hijacking with no end game as basically dumb. when you hijack without a plan, they said, you would just draw attention to the gop's political failures, like their failure to end obamacare and raise fantasy expectations among the base and waste capital on improbable goals. others, tonight, see hijacking as a tactic that works in the short run, that elevate otherwise low ranking members like matt gates to the scene you saw here that makes so much ne

speaker boehner i know for a fact was briefed on and didn't do anything. didn't say anything. kept me on the committee because it was nothing other than doing what every american would did if they found out somebody like this chinese individual was trying to infiltrate the campaign. [captions copyright national cable satellite corp. 2023] [captioning performed by the national captioning institute, which is responsible for its caption content and accuracy visit ncicap.org] >> the house will return later for votes. members debated several bills today. including e that would create a task force to review how pilots receive flight path data and other information. also debate on the bill of the tkroudown of crude oil from the strategic petroleum reserve. we expects the house back at about 4 p.m. easte. live here on c-span. >> preorder your copy of the congressional directory for the 118th congress. its your access to the federal government with bioand

had that led to boehner's ouster.ou heard him there when i asked about the concern. he said i am not afraid of that. i'm not going to be a weaker speaker. so he has claims he is fine with this. but it could very well mean he could have a short-lived speakership if he even gets there, jake. >> that's exactly right. one of those precivil war multiple ballot speakership deadlocks, the guy that won, jontay lore, he lost the next year. it was a very weak speakership. anderson? >> jake, manu, thank you so much. joining us now is iowa republican marionette meeks. congresswoman, i appreciate you joining us. are you happy? do you think progress can be made overnight into tomorrow? >> i think the fact that we got 219 votes to adjourn. i know that seems like a farcical thing, but that's a small victory. and yes, i think that we're going to continue this process. but people are seeing the process that typically occurs behind closed doors, and what people used to laughingly refer to and derisively referred to as smoke-filled back

john boehner decided to resign as speaker. without for several days kevin mccarthy was the odds-on favorite and this would be complete. he did not have the vote and it comes down to the math. the high watermark was about 219, which is one over what you need. i was told his number was actually lower in the hundreds. what we might be sitting on the house for is a fight that did not occur in 2015 that was delayed for seven years. perhaps kevin mccarthy is just never going to be the speaker of the house. >> john: you know, chad you talked about a couple of nightmare scenarios in the amount of time it might take to get this done. but is there a potential nightmare scenario for the republicans here? people voting for the president and instead of voting for a candidate and potential attrition that the democrats actually get to the magic number and the republicans don't? >> you come in that case you would have to have people who are away and you would have to say people vote present in the democrats come in at 212. this will be the ma

boehner, the motion to vacate was placed on boehner. i came mid-term. tail off to campaign and fund raise and build over the last two cycles. he did that. it's different than what happened in 2015. kevin was the leader of the conference as the minority leader for two cycles, built that majority. then there really wasn't another alternative for people to go to so i really thought he would get through it, even with this tough margin, i just didn't think it would take 15 votes and all the concessions that it did, but it did. >> there's this moment, we'll show it, armed services committee -- >> you don't have to show me the pictures. >> there he is lunging at congressman matt gaetz after gaetz did not vote aye, thus stopping mccarthy from winning on the 14th ballot. does this bode ill for your party's ability to unite and govern? >> no. they're very good friends of mine. mike just got hot under the collar. they were pretty exasperated by that time. my understanding is matt gaetz was going to vote for him and then changed his mind in the vote without telling

but since it is a boehner i would've fired the writer ofud this story if he did not include boehner'ss jackson hole. [laughter] boom. cap this is a great story.ymbo don't you think? it's basically symbolic thumb inuring toc they california. gas u.s. are going to ban gas cars were to ban electric vehicles how's that customer x obviouslyh wouldn't agree with it in terms of policy. but is doing something very understandable biden guilty of t lot.ey which is acting up not getting enough attention.. [laughter] y are sittingthe that were going to ban this, ban this and people those ar ae ours jobs people are cavalierly talking about decimating entire industries where people work there. they wanted to bring a little attention back to themselves is understand pickwick does anyonen know how people in wyoming?ecau how's then people i dated i went y there. and thi went there. that's a fun fact every went repeated. unlike thank you yes, i did hea that. >> was a weird dude.n' they did not datt e a cow. [laughter] talks ere.i struck out. >> we ask of the population was questioned its 570,000 per.em

this was a problem for republicans back in the days of speaker john boehner when the house ultimately of it because it made it too difficult for the house to function, for a speaker to govern. this was the demand by the right-wing holdouts because they want to keep speaker mccarthy on a short leash and make sure he doesn't cross it with the demands. the second, you alluded to this, there are various budgetary restrictions on the package. it makes it harder to raise spending. and it most notably makes it harder to raise the debt limit by eliminated the end runs that congress has used in the past to protect members from tough votes. this is a major confrontation coming down the road because this is not an optional piece of legislation. it has to happen to prevent the catastrophic default that at the moment i can't quite figure out how the republican controlled house, you know, where these right-wing holdoccupants who almost sunk speaker mccarthy's bid have so much influence can reconcile with the democratic controlled senate. but big picture, this was the easy part for speaker mccarthy,

this is what john boehner and paul ryan went through. not in such a dramatic way, but this is really the culmination of a lot of the chaos that has been the house republican conference for the last decade or so. it's very obvious and dramatic today that this has been a part of the conference's dna for quite some time now. >> let me go to brendan buck who lived through that. that does feel i think different from the perspective of a political reporter covering this. does it feel different to you, somebody who's lived it? >> this is remarkable. of course it's built around the fact there's such a small majority and these dynamics have existed for years and years. that's ultimately i think what it's coming to a head. this is 12 years of frustration between leadership type folks and it had far right. the distrust that's existed and they're finally taking their shot at it and there's been reporting that they wanted to take a shot at paul ryan. they obviously came close to using a motion to vacate against boehner and challenged him on the floor

when we voted against john boehner, we did it because he was trying to marginalize the conservatives. mccarthy wants to make jim jordan on the committee. i don't think it's practical. i don't think it's policy. i just think it's a combination of they don't like kevin and they like the attention and that's a really, really bad way to run a speaker race. >> i understand that you don't think bad behavior should be rewarded but we are now in a place as a country that we have not been in since 1923 with somebody running for speaker and not winning on the first ballot, second ballot, third ballot, who knows how long this will go. at what point do you start thinking i don't know that kevin mccarthy can win and even if he can, i don't know he can be the speaker effectively given the fact that he can't even get this done. >> no, i think that's a fair point. i think that's one likely outcome. it's eithersomebody l less acceptable to me. i'll use a name. it's a guy i like. let's say fred up toton is this compromised candidate a large group of moderate republicans come together with democrats and

it is impossible to imagine john boehner taking 15 votes and making every concession under the sun justrs gavel. and yet that is something that kevin mccarthy did. >> it is a totally fair question, i think that there is a real possibility that he is going to have to face the choice, the question of bring up a bill that probably upsets a lot of your conference and face their wrath or go over the limit. i think he will ultimately choose to bring that bill up but it will be hard to execute and it will be incredible political pressure. i don't know how we'll get there, i do not know it's gonna look like, but i do think there is going to be that moment in june or july where he has to make that decision. it may cost him a motion to vacate. he may survive that, they make about, but i do think it is a very real possibility. those are the stakes that we are dealing with, i just think that kevin mccarthy is probably, i don't think he's willing to risk economic catastrophe for this job. >> that's a big thank. i have one last one for you brandon. mitch mcconnell was seen in a bipartisan event with

joining us now is brandon buck former senior adviser to republican speaker paul ryan and john boehnerthat every time i speak with you it seems to be like a crisis moment for the republican party. but i know that there is a lot of comparison. it's not that you are creating, it but you are part of the negotiations. this time it feels different. not just because it wasn't a landscape, dan pfeiffer says in the political article today, john boehner may have been willing to put more of his but -- i'm paraphrasing, but on the line. he did intellectually and subsequently siwa default was terrible. i'm not sure that mccarthy understands that. mccarthy cares and will value this over his own job i don't necessarily agree with it entirely i think the difference here is in 2011, you are covering. this i think appreciated at we all confidence now that john boehner was not gonna let something really bad happened. i don't think kevin mccarthy wants something really bad to happen. i think he knows really bad if we went over the limit. here but what is dealing with is just so much further to the right

there was obama and john boehner. they took golfing trips together. that didn't really get anywhere. and meanwhile, there was then as there is now a clock ticking down when it came to the debt ceiling and a potential default on the debt. and there were attempts, all sorts of attempts at negotiations. there was a lot of tension within republican party, the tea party side calling for pretty dramatic cuts. john boehner trying to balance their interests with the potential compromise with obama. the democrats came all the way down to the wire in the summer of 2011, right to the brink of a potential default on the debt. and this is what happened. >> all right. >> reporter: just seeing that tired look on house speaker's john boehner's face captured the grueling end game of this debt ceiling crisis. >> it's very frustrating to all americans. >> have a seat. have a seat. >> reporter: after the deal was announced sunday night, the president made a point to give special credit to the public. >> it's been your voices, your letters, your emails, your tweets, your

it is what boehner did for paul ryan. in 2015 when mccarthy did not have enough votes, rather than let his opponent win, dan webster of florida, boehner shut everything down and said we're going to hand pick paul ryan and give it to paul ryan. garrett's right about how the rules work. the rules don't make any sense. the way we stopped mccarthy in 2015 was this, behind closed doors you only need 51% of the republican conference. it's not really a concurrence if it's only 51%, but on the floor as we're all watching you need 218. the way we stopped mccarthy in 2015 was exactly this. we withheld sufficient votes on the floor. now in that case mccarthy knew ahead of time, i'm not going to go through what he's going through today. boehner crafted the runway for paul ryan, and that's ultimately how republicans chose him. kevin mccarthy right now at this moment could solve all of this by withdrawing and republicans could have a very conservative republican speaker by nightfall tonight. >> but this isn't about conservatism. why di

you were there in 2015 when mark meadows uses the motion to vacate that led to john boehner head for the exit. how do you see this playing out? i don't understand how lowering this threshold will make mccarthy anything other than a caretaker speaker, waiting for the first time matt gaetz and his gang object to something. >> well, it will certainly weaken him. back in 2015, mark meadows did come to the floor with a motion to vacate. only took one member back then. his group was disorganized. they would not have won that vote. in fact, i remember imploring speaker boehner and his staff who called the question immediately because the freedom caucus, some of whom behind that maneuver, were not, they weren't organized. they were divided. throttle this little insurrection while it's in its bassinet here and boehner didn't want to do that. because he wanted to protect his members who were going to be facing primary challenges, which i thought was ridiculous at the time. but that's what happened and a new months later, he did resign. so i'm curious to see what happens tomorrow because i susp

boehner succeeded. i k kevin mccarthyk kevi and steve scalise and the steve scalise and th others will also succeed. i actually think they're goingtp to get some help fromim the senate this time around.ound but the crazy point is the government is spending 24% ofgo our economvernmey. if you if you go to the states in the localities, federal, state and local. >> 44% o f our economy. and that's why you're getting for all twenty two . the econ got the last numbers today. the economy grew at one percenot and that's the worst performance since the financial meltdown. erformancee the financial meltd the inflation rate for the whole year was six point 6 three percent. that.3%. is the highest inflatit in 40 years.ion what's the culpritin here?what i five to six trillion dollars of spending and borrowing. okay, and then student debtt cancelations could add another six eight hundred billiocanceln8 so, no00, you're right.yo there will be negotiations. the gop is not going to destroy the gog entitlement program. th

brendan buck, former adviser to two former republican speakers of the house john boehner and paul ryan days. thank you for your time tonight, brendan. >> when they fund. thank you. >> you still ahead tonight, if you're wondering why after 11 failed attempts to secure the votes needed to become speaker of the house, kevin mccarthy is ready to go at it again. join the club -- nbc's ali vitale will join me to discuss the latest on a potential deal that came -- earn the votes. but next, seemingly out of nowhere, some republicans decided they cared about nominating one of their own to be the first black speaker of the house. democratic congresswoman ilhan omar joins me next to discuss the reason why. ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ detect this: living with hiv, i learned i can stay undetectable with fewer medicines. that's why i switched to dovato. dovato is for some adults who are starting hiv-1 treatment or replacing their current hiv-1 regimen. detect this: no other complete hiv pill uses fewer medicines to help keep you undetectable than dovato. detect this: most hiv pills contain 3 or 4 medicines. dovato is

boehner, dealmaker. cats in their caucus and one quote from john boehner hammers home the problem that kevin mccarthy seems to be facing. wrote in his memoir under new rules of crazy town i may have been speaker but i didn't hold the power. the chaos caucus in the house built up their own power base thanks to fawning right-wing media and outraged driven fund-raising cash. a reminder. the fise that kevin mccarthy seems to be facing today has been brewing for a long time but it seems to be getting worse. >> yeah. in that quote, i may have been the speaker but didn't hold the power that could be kevin mccarthy giving the concessions he'd made to those still standing in the way of this. john avlon, thank you for breaking it down. we'll stay tuned. 82 members set to take the oath. the freshman class includes a number of women and more diversity. talking to congresswoman-elect from washington's third district, marie, a young mom. came from an auto body repair shop she owns and thinks congress needs to look mor

when john boehner was running, he stayed back in his remarks. >> mccarthy. [ applause ] >> mccall. >> i think he wanted to show people he's willing to stick this out with them. he's on the floor when he was getting this vote. i think he knows this is going to be a long day, a long night, maybe even a long week. he's sticking with them on the floor being present, which is a bit of an unusual twist. >> he's basically daring them to vote against him to his face. >> so far, people are doing it. but he's going to have to rely on peer pressure and wearing people down. he gave the longest speech in the history of the house. i think he's getting ready for a long night. it's going to annoy some people. there's going tok some people that are frustrated. they want to get off the floor at some point. so maybe two, three, four votes they have to break. but this is really ultimately a test ofs will. kevin mccarthy is going to say i have all of these people. what is your plan? that's when you start talking about somebody else trying to emerge. then it gets really complicated. >> and ashley parker fr

brendan's boss boehner did that. that's what mccarthy couldn't do.t continue, chai. >> i use the term rigged because part of making this a finished election is that horse trading, is making sure that the people whose vote you want get what they need, et cetera, which i think brings up another factor here. perhaps the real speaker of the house, regardless of whoever the republicans end up electing, will be tucker carlson. tucker carlson, fox news, newsmax, oan seem to be the drivers behind what's motivating house republican members now, and they decide based on their ratings, their programming who goes on their show, and these members seem to want to go on their shows saying, we stuck with the republican establishment. >> we have a clip i want to bring up of mccarthy. what hangs over all of this -- we just talked a lot about the math that got here. and then there's the fact that this is someone who has really tried to curry all the favor he could with these maga hardliners, with trump, and even at times minimizing the horrific insurrection that at one

that's held john boehner hostage. it's held paul ryan hostage.seeing the same thing happening with kevin mccarthy where this small group does not like the idea of compromise. they don't want to do it. they also don't even like the structure of how their conference operates. they don't like the leadership structure in the house. that's extremely problematic for anyone. maybe it's kevin mccarthy. maybe it will be someone else. i guarantee you this problem which is that they don't want to be led, is not going to go away, even if someone is able to get to 218 between now and god knows when. it could go on forever. >> it's interesting, jam knee. kevin mccarthy seems to be losing votes during every ballot. >> it is not going in the right direction. it went from 19 to 20. he has not -- it is not going well. look, to abby's point, the chaos caucus, as boehner used to call it, has lived up to its reputation. and a republican source, a member who is not in the freedom caucus told me earlier, i just don't know how he gets there. that's kevin. the caucus, th

john boehner was not supposed to succeed tom delay in 2006. paul ryan did not want to succeed john boehner in 2015. it was supposed to be kevin mccarthy. particle politics, little things like this start to add up and a tell you who gets in to leadership, this is significant today. we're in our third ballot. we'll have a fourth ballot. that number ofments opposed to kevin mccarthy is growing. at some point, we will see if they continue to vote. right now looks like they will continue to vote and vote and voted. none of the members have been sworn in. they have their family members in, the college roommates. there's no house of representatives. everybody who you talk to all of these members, they're members elect. the senate is in session. they're ready to go. the house is not. does that be a problem over a period of time? i asked the former speaker of the house, nancy pelosi, the other day. i said what happens if you're the last speaker that they have for a while. what does that say about the institution? she says i don't it weakens it but i ho

this is a guy who voted against john boehner for speaker. i mean, mick mulvaney, mark meadows, and jim jordan, where the guys who work the textbook on how to obstruct the majority. and all witnessing here today is really a continuation of what we saw since 2011. this is the same thing, except it's worse. because there is a smaller margin and they're more wild man. >> we will have more to talk about with 18 here in new york. everyone will stick around. also tonight, seeing an update on the condition of buffalo bills safety damar hamlin, who clapped on the field last. night detailed new reporting about what he went through last night and still going through right now the hospital. plus, we'll get perspective from our own doctor sanjay gupta. is here to support all your “ands.” national university. supporting the whole you. >> talking tonight about history making -- kevin mccarthy in his midterm to come in the speaker of the house. part of it was watching this florida congressman, matt gaetz, nominating jim jordan for speaker. >> mr. jordan sai

boehner was able to push that vote off for a couple of months. what he was hearing from his colleagues, republican colleagues, was that you cannot make me walk the plank and take this vote. this is going to be a difficult vote for me to take. i'm hearing from constituents in my district. what weiner ultimately decided to do was rather than force his colleagues to take that difficult vote about whether to oust him from the house of representatives, he decided to resign instead. those motions have consequences. nancy pelosi when she took over as speaker raised the threshold for the motion to vacate to a high level. now, what republicans have decided to do is bring that back down to a single member who can bring that motion to vacate. host: was that a house freedom congress -- caucus request to lower the threshold? guest: it was in one of these negotiations with kevin mccarthy. caller: i appreciate him explaining it thoroughly. the other question was, when you use the term discretionary funding, that is basically as i understand it, affects the home

this is a guy who voted against john boehner for speaker. mick mulvaney and jim jordan wrote the textbook on how to obstruct the majority. all we're witnessing is a continuation of what we saw since 2011. this is the same thing, except it's worse because there is a smaller margin and they're the wild men. >> we have more to talk with the team here in new york. everyone is going to stick around. >>> also tonight, significant update on the condition of last-minute damar hamlin. what he went through and is still going through at the hospital, plus perspective from our own dr. gupta. will you make something better? ♪ will you create something entirelyly new? ♪ our dell technologies advisors provide you with the tools and expertise you need to do incredible things. because we believe there's an innovator in all of us. aubree: i'm aubree. i went to st. jude because i had a cancerous tumor. casey: these kids, they don't deserve to have to go through this. my beautiful little redheaded girl has cancer. you don't know what's going to happen. narrator

that's what brought down john boehner. now it has been down to one -- he conceded it's one that can bring up a motion, as garrett was saying earlier, this could be the third motion after the pledge and the prayer each day, a motion to vacate. something that nancy pelosi got rid of after seeing what happened to her predecessor john boehner. >> it is fascinating to watch kevin mccarthy appear to lose the seventh ballot here because as you said, he made those concessions. he talked about the fact he was going to go and talk to these conservative members who didn't want to be part of the people who were supporting him initially. i think it's something to say that kevin mccarthy last night was telling reporters, i crawl before i walk, i walk before i run. saying that this is a mountain that he is climbing. he might be on his knees at the beginning but he is hoping to be on his feet and at the top of the mountain. it's hard to understand how he gets to the number where he doesn't lose four republicans. this seems personal. i hav

. >> are we seeing here a small faction of republican lawmakers who john boehner, the former speakerred to as people who committed legislative terrorism effectively holding the party to ransom? >> 100%. you have maybe 10, 20 republicans who say never kevin. i look at that and say fine. you don't like kevin mccarthy, that is your business. but are you doing justice to the republicans who gained the majority in this new congress and have the opportunity to legislate? who have the opportunity to step up to president biden and say we need to have border security, we need to find a way to reduce the inflation or are you going to stand up and say never kevin and for pito the republicans ambitions in congress? >> what is this going to mean whoever comes speaker for a publican control for the next two years given this tiny majority? >> the last two speakers, paul ryan and john boehner have been my friends and they do not want the job. they do not like the idea you could have this caucus of 10, 15 or 20 who could torpedo them at every opportunity. why on earth would you want to be speaker of

this is what happened to the former speaker john boehner. five of these individuals say no.are never kevin sprayed you nine putting out a letter saying even though he gave into some concessions, one of them making it much easier to call a no-confidence vote on him being speaker. if he was elected they say they still needs to be more specific sent he did not give in. alix: could he have the votes if he gives stuff away? what would they vote for him for? >> potentially but he can really only lose four individuals. we have seen in the past newt gingrich, boehner, pelosi also one year did not get exactly 218 but got the majority. there are individuals who just don't want it to be him. so potentially what we will see here is that if he is unable to get this vote. it's a roll call vote, it happens once, usually that individual is elected. it's been a century since it didn't happen that way. it would potentially be a resolution to change the rules or go back to negotiations and we could see another speaker emerge. alix: we look forward to that throughout the day as well. let's dig

. >> you helped push john boehner out of power, you weighed in on this in 2021.want to listen to what you said. >> he would have been a great speaker in 1968. but was not a good speaker in 2010. you could not go into the tea party movement not realizing it was something different and if the leadership doesn't change it will be replaced. >> do you think you helped pave the road for what we are seeing play out right now? >> no. i thought about that lot. i get asked that a lot. when we fought with john boehner in 2013 and 2015, it was because we felt, rightly or wrongly, we felt he was marginalizing the tea party wave of the party. we couldn't on committees, get our amendments heard, get our legislation voted on, those things. you fast forward to today and kevin mccarthy has done more than anybody to bring conservatives into the fold. jim jordan, a member of the -- founding member of the freedom caucus stands to be the chairman of the judiciary committee if kevin is speaker. some of the rules changes that kevin offered, offering amendments to prevent unfunded m mand

not a tear was shed for -- except john boehner's tears shed for himself. so, it will be exactly the same way for kevin mccarthy kevin mccarthy knows tonight that not a single tier will be shed for him in the house when republicans, if he ever makes it to speaker, he also knows tonight that if he loses his attempt to be speaker, not a single tier will be shed -- and if he does make it to speaker, kevin mccarthy knows right now he will be the weakest speaker of the house we have ever seen. leading off our discussion tonight is democratic congressman adam schiff of california, he is the outgoing chairman of the house intelligence committee and was a member of the january 6th select committee. thank you very much for joining us tonight, congressman adam schiff. the first thing i want to try to understand here was how you got not just to an adjournment at the end of that third vote. but it was a unanimous voice vote for an enjoyment and your adjournment -- there was one no vote from the back of the room. -- the time it took to count up that vote tally that was

joining us now is brendan buck who served as an adviser to two former republican speakers john boehner paul ryan, a man who i'm delighted to say is making his debut appearance on this television show and, boy, what a time, brendan. it's good to see you. thanks for being here. >> great to be with you, alex. >> honestly, brendan, as you do the research into this group of 20 effectively holding the house of representatives hostage, it makes the tea party insurgents of the john boehner era think like a think tank with well developed policy foundations. what is your opinion of this group of people in terms of what they actually want and how republican leadership can possibly negotiate with them? >> yeah, that was a great setup. look, this politics for these people has become entertainment and become sport. as you said, it is all about getting on tv and being famous. that's the problem for kevin mccarthy. he has now found himself in a game of -- a staring contest, a contest of wills with people who love being on stage right now. they love the fact that we are talking about them. they exist f

how concerned are you that speaker boehner, speaker mccarthy, will not be as successful as speaker boehnerin navigating his conference to get them to the place where they need to be, which is so left the debt ceiling? >> i'm deeply concerned. i was deeply involved in the 2011 -- we came up quickly, set a framework for how this is going to be done. and we were really committed that we were going to do. it was a matter of how. it's not clear that republicans have a plan right now. i'm not sure the white house has a plan right now. i think this is a question everyone needs to be asking over the next six months, how are going to do that? us right now, i couldn't tell you. >> okay. not the hopeful, well, i wasn't expecting hopeful answer to that, but it's a very berry scene and realistic answer. thank you both very much for coming to the sunday show. coming, up the looming fight over the debt ceiling. what i came in for you, don't go anywhere. go anywhere. >> tech: when you have auto glass damage, trust safelite. this dad and daughter were driving when they got a crack in their windshield. [sma

remember, john boehner in 2015, he got elected speaker with 25 defections.row majorities. that is one path. the second thing, kevin mccarthy could try to get these far-right rebels everything they want. specifically, they want to keep him on a very tight leash here. they want to be able to make a motion to overthrow him whenever they please. they want him to commit to holding votes on bills that may not be able to pass. they want commitments for him to pass those bills even though he cannot control some of the votes. it is very difficult. but he can try going down that road and maybe reduce the defections to four, which is all he can afford. and the third option here is the least likely option. but it is the one card that moderates and mainstream publicans have to play. they can cut a deal with democrats, a group of them can go to maybe ten, 20 democrats, as many as they need, to overcome the rebels and say we are going to elect a more moderate speaker. and that will really teach the far-right a lesson because they can get a more liberal speaker than the one

i'm also struck by in that stubbornness why did john boehner resign as speaker of the house? why did paul ryan decide to throw in the towel? beth of them thought that letting this group of people hold them hostage, hold the u.s. government hostage in critical important situations was too much. they didn't want to deal with it anymore. some of that was personal. they didn't want to put up with it, they didn't like it. but some of it was also about what is the responsible thing to do when you have been given the power to govern the country in critical moments like raising the debt ceiling or dealing with a national security crisis among other things. and mccarthy in his stubbornness has essentially said i will give them what they want so that i can stay in power. now, i'm interested to see how long that continues for him, but i see a significant difference between how he's willing to handle this and how some of his predecessors have. >> so we are approaching in about minute congressman matt rosendale of montana who has been described to me by his colleagues as unpredictable and

joining us now communication strategist and former aide to ryan and boehner. had a new opinion piece in "the new york times." a failed speaker vote kevin mccarthy would be a historic event. help put this in perspective. talk about kevin mckarnlg qui -- mccarthy, what would it mean for him for a fauld vote? >> it's important to appreciate this is kevin mccarthy's second time trying to be speaker when john boehner retired in 2015, kevin mccarthy was next in line. he was ready to take the gavel and dropped out at the last minute with the same type of conservatives questioning whether he was fit for the job. i think everything that kevin mccarthy has done since that time in the last seven years has been to avoid the situation he's facing right now. he may be alliances with the freedom caucus, he made jim jordan, freedom caucus leader and close ally of his and very close to donald trump. i think all of those things were explained by him wanting to get the gavel on the first ballot today. and if he doesn't, and it's looking increasingly like he won't, this will be t

remember what happened to john boehner.the rule was just one member would call for the vote, he didn't want to go through with the vote that could have toppled a sitting speaker so he resigned. he stepped aside from the speakership. and that is to oust a speaker, it has been wielded over the last several years. so much so that it was nancy pelosi who raised the threshold to have other members to call for such a vote. but this group of conservatives want to lower that threshold to empower themselves over the speakership. that has caused a lot of concern within the ranks that perhaps this will lead to an unwieldy situation where at any moment the sitting speaker could be ousted. >> manu raju, thank you so much. here with me in the studio tonight, cnn political commentator david urban, also cnn anchor and correspondent audi cornish and -- senior contributor at axios. look, the more you lower the threshold, the closer you bring that right above the head of the speaker. he is well aware of that. if you only have four votes to lo

american voters are getting to see what john boehner called, legislative terrorists at work. kevin mccarthy is doing everything he can to become one of those legislative terrorists. so that they will vote for him, as speaker of the house. kevin mccarthy, already pledging, to the legislative terrorists, that he would support a new rule of the house, allowing a single member of the house to call for a vote to remove the speaker. that is a legislative terrorists tactic against the speaker which kevin mccarthy is, now, supporting against himself, if he is to become speaker. it means, in september, if kevin mccarthy does not become the first republican speaker of the house to refuse to bring an increase in the debt ceiling to a vote, then republicans will vote on removing him from office. most of the legislative terrorists kevin mccarthy is dealing with have pledged to never vote for any increase in the debt ceiling. so, in september, just as the credit of the united states of america is about to hit its limit, kevin mccarthy, like every speaker of the house before him, democrat,

it makes the tea party insurgents of the john boehner area look like a think tank. with weld of -- policy foundations. what is your opinion of this group of people, in terms of what they actually want, and how republican leadership can possibly negotiate with them? >> yeah, great setup. look, the politics for these people has become entertainment. it's become sport. as you say, it's all about getting on tv, being famous. and that's the problem for kevin mccarthy, he's found himself in a game of -- staring contest. a contest of wells, with people who love being onstage right now. they love that the fact that we're talking about. them they exist for this in the house caucus, where the center of all of this is operating they like to talk about how they organize around conservative principles. or maybe the rules of the house operate. but they're really, they exist to make themselves -- there are a group of misfits. who found ways to make leadership pay attention to them by being difficult. and this is a natural out -- it started in 2010 with the tea party, but those peo

guest: that's what he did in 2011 back when john boehner was there with the new house. they were intent on cutting the deficit and they wanted to pass a balanced budget amendment to the debt limit, it was much more ambitious than what kevin mccarthy is talking about which is a more modest cap deal on spending. i think mitch mcconnell is in the wings and if the house is unable to get its act together and unable to pass anything, there is a chance that macconnell in the end could pick up the phone to joe biden and try to craft a deal that they think may enough folks in the house would fix it up. host: you and others at bloomberg had a story published about the options that the government may consider when taking care of these issues so what's the genesis of this story? guest: a lot of folks have been talking about ways to bypass the house of representatives. it's very inconvenient with a house of representative that disagrees that you don't want to raise the debt limit. people are saying you could raise cash to keep paying the bills, one of which has been popular is minti

pelosi, mitch mcconnell, john boehner. you need.ffice where the situation room or the cabinet room with the president and the leader. is when those people need to say, i can deliver this and there is no way that it's not just akeem jeffries, and joe schumer, mitch mcconnell will be able to count on the house leader liver and -- it's basically, a stools out of the chair. i don't see any way gets repaired. >> there is also the politics of this. those are the big substantial. things the debt ceiling thing, but the politics are, again, it's the opposite of what you would design. if you're paid to give advice for the republican party. that's just hat is really disappointing midterm election. that, obviously this kind of performance was the thing that hurt them the, mouse along with roby and overturned to come out front and center, they're aware of that. do you think this is the kind of thing that everybody forgets in a few, months ours is the kind of thing that does land with voters? >> and reinforcing an image that may not -- >>, while