chechnya had 1 million. they managed to stop a tank column and an entire brigade of one of the world's most powerful armies. longtime new york times foreign correspondent was in grozny at the time. she says there was, quote, a stunning silence in russia in the days that followed as the leadership took stock of what happened in the army, and the army sent in reinforcements. she described what happened next. quote, the russian army unleashed a terrifying onslaught of air and artillery strikes on the city. a modern, european city became a ravage moonscape. i remember how buildings were shown in half, and the contents of people's lives spilled out of their apartments into the open air. after three months, russian forces took the city center, and soldiers sat on plastic chairs guarding a wasteland of destroyed buildings, gouged earth and stricken tree stumps. after leveling the place, russian signed a peace deal with chechnya. but russia did not seem to get much out of the deal besides widespread destruction and

the leader of the russian republic of chechnya is calling for the storming of ukraine's capital keith as part of russia, so called special military co operation. for years, soldiers from chechnya have been fighting alongside pro russian separatists in eastern ukraine, chechen separatists ford to wars against russia after the collapse of the soviet union. but russia violently defeated the separatists. now chechnya, as part of the russian federation and is ruled by rams on cathedral, a loyal ally of president vladimir putin. putin has repeatedly called upon, could've paramilitary fighters to undertake risky missions in ukraine. but some chechen separatists have also joined the war on the ukrainian side, fighting against russian forces. ah, they're seen as the muscle of the russian military feared for their brutality on the battlefield. soldiers from chechnya fighting for president vladimir putin in ukraine. the chechens, i believe, to be in the thick of a fighting here in what's left of mary, a pole. beverly sophist footage. they say he's from inside the city. it shows them going house

now chechnya is part of the russian federation and is ruled by rams. i'm caddied of a loyal ally of president vladimir putin. putin, as repeatedly called upon caddied of military fighters to undertake risky missions in ukraine. but some chechen separatists have also joined the war on the ukrainian side, fighting against russian forces they're seen as the muscle of the russian military feared for their brutality on the battlefield. soldiers from chechnya fighting for president vladimir putin in the chechens, i believe, to be in the thick of a fighting here in what's left of mary, a pole. federalist 5th footage they say is from inside the city, show them going house to house and firing on residential building. they're loyal to this man, rams on career of for pro kremlin presidents of a church and republic because himself putins foot soldier at your door. so i'd like to give some advice to the current president of ukraine, viola, demi zalinski, before he becomes a former president of ukraine. stubborn prescott. you should hurry up and call our president t

is believed fighters from chechnya over in its ranks fighting for the government in heath and against rams and kidney, rav chechens on both sides of a front line in a war within a wall of more. this aspect i am now joined by miriam hes. she's a research fellow as the and the german council on foreign relations who's written extensively on chechnya and it's malicious. now, ramson kabir, of calling for the storming of keys there, just as russia analysis. it is scaling back its forces in that area is he acting outside the crime is authority? well, 1st of all, i think we have to understand kind of rule really in the put in a power structure. and this is more that could, you know, it's really the only person or one of the person that is only loyal to put in him. right. so i think this narrative of him acting outside of, put in command is something i'm highly skeptical about. i think this maneuver of him really like trying to emphasize the more narrative of being ready to storm and like to 5 key of something which just like playing into the narrative of him trying to instrumental lies. the

his militia helped moscow defeat separate his rebels and bring chechnya back into russia control. it was a brutal war but left for capital growth in the in ruins. seen similar to the destruction seen today in ukraine. kirov claims tens of thousands of his men are fighting in ukraine, whatever their true number they're seen as a potent psychological weapon for vladimir putin. for analysts suggest they might actually be more hype than help. this footage filmed by the ukrainian mandatory on b outskirts of keith claims to show what's left of a chechen column after an ambush, burns how armor litters road book a day, rough denies his forces suffered any setback near country yardage to will be to some say that many of our fighters were killed, nuggets are not natural by so long when i see it from the other. we have not sustained a single loss. no, it's not a single soldier has been wounded up. not a single soldier scratched. not a single person has even caught a cold, or nascar conversion. a fierce fire fight in the village northeast of keys. this video was posted on social media by ukra

in 1999, russian forces invaded chechnya and shifted to greater artillery and missile strikes and also cut off supply lights -- supply lines between cities. the capital was leveled in the fighting. 20 years earlier, the then soviet union invaded neighboring afghanistan in an attempt to reinforce the soviet regime in kabul. the soviets never sent enough soldiers to account for stiff resistance by afghans and foreign fighters. let me come to you and ask you about, you know, the scale of russia's military involvement in ukraine compared to, first of all, the entire capacity of russian forces and compared to these recent conflicts, if it's syria or even going as far back as the afghanistan war. how has russia fared? what is different this time? >> this war in ukraine is perhaps more similar to soviet involvement in afghanistan and russia's wars in chechnya then compared to involvement in syria. it is similar to syria in the fact that they are leveling cities and committing serious atrocities against civilians, but it is different because syria did not have such major ground campaigns from

do you think he could treat this like chechnya indefinitely? >> you're right, gratzny and chechnya were, like for islamist ex ttrem extremists, okay, we didn't know what was going on there. but the other key thing which you just mentioned which is absolutely true, vladimir putin has much more problems at home than he did going after chechnya. there's the crippling sanctions and unrest. some of his senior military people who might begin to question what's going on not just here but that russia. >> steve hall, thank you so much. >>> just ahead, some of the war's most fragile victims, critically ill children, they're harrowing journey aboard a makeshift medical train. d-on trt for severe eosinophilic asthma that can mean less oral ststeroids. not for sudden breathing problems. allergic reactions can occur.. get help right away for swswelling of face, mouth, tongue, or trouble breathing. infections that can cause shingles have occurred. don't stop steroids unless told by your doctor. tell your doctor if you have a parasitic infection. may cause hea

in 1999 russian forces invaders chechnya for the 2nd time in 5 years, then they shifted towards greater use of artillery and messiah strikes against major cities. and they also cut off supply lines between cities. the capital of grossey was leveled in the fighting 20 years earlier. the then soviet union invaded neighboring afghanistan in an attempt to reinforce a new pro soviet regime in cavil. the soviets counted on a short term military operation, but never sent enough soldiers to deal with stiff resistance by afghans and thousands of foreign fighters. a dog. let me come to you and ask you about, ah, you know, the scale of russia's military involvement in, in ukraine compared to a, 1st of all the entire capacity of russian forces. and compared to these recent conflicts without syria or even going as far back as the afghanistan war. how has russia fed? what, what is different this time around for? so this warren, ukraine is perhaps more similar to soviet involvement in afghanistan and russia's wars in chechnya. then compared to involvement and syria, it's similar to syria in the fact t

what the chechnya has seen these places and talked to people who actually lived a little bit was so a bit of kind of hand hands on experience there. to some extent they were all quite different. the boy in check now was horrible miscalculation, but remember, the russian army at the time was of course script army. and they stamped into battle field a lot of completely an experience. unwilling, once good, there was also a big opposition within the russia and within the russian military to the company yet. so in that they would move the really quite sent ground groups. so the only way liberal tactic was to warm, grossly from the ear. ok out sick and it was different because russia started involvement in a live pool all get towards the end of 2016 when the war was on already ranging for 4 years. and there were multiple actors in walk in. it is also a lot of so a lot of difference as you say, and let me come to your legacy, how the tactic used in syria western circle and besieged rebel held areas and pound them from the air and from artillery batteries any any, and exhaust really that the

the capital of chechnya was leveled in the fighting. in 2008, russia fought a 12 day war with georgia. moscow occupied the breakaway regions and thousands of russian soldiers are still there. six years later, russia annexed the crimean peninsula within a month and began rib -- began supporting separatists in the east. russia's involvement in syria's war helped turn the conflict in president bashar al-assad's favor. when you look at the invasion of ukraine and compared to grozny, for example, what has hindered this russian operation? whether they lack of preparedness or a lack of equipment or more row being low among russian troops? guest: in war, it's always a complicated picture and it is a bit of all of that. but in the strategic military mistake, in chechnya, it was a concentrated offensive. from the north, the east and west. russian groups were converging and uniting forces. in ukraine, they are moving in different directions. they are not converging with each other. it is as if they are trying to corral cattle or something. they di

there been committing war crimes in syria, chechnya. and if the _ war crimes in syria, chechnya. and if the series seem regime change in the p _ if the series seem regime change in the p available to appear at the international criminal court, great. the effort — international criminal court, great. the effort should be focused on bringing — the effort should be focused on bringing in the strongest sanctions we can _ bringing in the strongest sanctions we can. when i went to persuade him, so we _ we can. when i went to persuade him, so we must _ we can. when i went to persuade him, so we must force them. and the next story, the daily telegraph. the lead story there barbaric putin rains down terror. the prime minister has written this in the _ the prime minister has written this in the new— the prime minister has written this in the new york times and in his anger— in the new york times and in his anger what— in the new york times and in his anger what is happened in the i , this is been going on less than a fortnight — , this is been going on less than a fortnight and the europea

a similar intervention by the russians against part of russia that was seeking to secede down in chechnya. and the lessons that they had learned from nearly a decade in afghanistan were not applied even then. and i, i think it's almost this on this confidence that overwhelming military porter a show of military mike will persuade your adversary to surrender and stir that. his confidence still seems to be that i'd like to talk the presenter bronson, which is now ruled by the taliban. miracles fighters did find the soviets, as well as on which i had been. or do you think the soviet actions in afghanistan innocence set up the conditions for the creation of the taliban and their subsequent when a, that's a good question. i obviously with the soviet invasion led to a lot of support for merger, dean and then obviously splitting out into the taliban. so yeah, i suppose it could be argued that yes. and they created the conditions for, for decades off of conflict, ongoing conflict. but we will leave it there for the time being talked to tracy, german from king's college, a london. thank you so muc

intelligence with regards to afghanistan, the lessons when even lent, when they went back in to chechnya in 1994. so here, only 5 years after the soviet withdrawal from afghanistan, we saw a similar intervention by the russians against part of russia that were seeking to succeed down in chechnya. and the lessons that they had learned from nearly a decade in afghanistan were not applied even then. and i, i, i think it's almost this on this confidence that overwhelming military force or a show of military might, will persuade your adversary to surrender. i am. and that, that is confidence still seems to be that. what i'd like to talk about present have brought us on, which is now ruled by the taliban. miracles fighters did fight the soviets, as well as on which i had been. or do you think the soviet actions in afghanistan innocence set up the conditions for the creation of the taliban and their subsequent? when a darcy, quick question. obviously the, the soviet invasion led to a lot of support for merger, dean and then obviously splitting out into the taliban. so e, i suppose it could be a

it stayed today was to quash chechnya. an armed forces trying to establish an islamic fate in russia's baggage on chechnya, as capital glossy was leveled in the fighting in 2008 russia ford a 12 day war with georgia. moscow occupied the breakaway regions of samples set. yeah. and up, cause yeah, thousands of russian soldiers are still there. 6 years later, russia annexed ukraine's crimean peninsula within a month and began supporting separatists in the east and rushes involvement, inferiors. war from 2015 have turned the conflict in present mashaila fads favor battle. let me come to you now. when you look at the invasion of ukraine and compare it to gross me, for example. what do you think has hindered this russian operation? in particular, was it a lack of preparedness or a lack of equipment? you all morale being low a among russian troops as some have claimed louis, so he's in war. so it's a complicated picture and it's a bit of every of all of that. but then in the main strategic military mistake was that then changed.

and what he did in chechnya, in the 2nd chechnya war during the yeltsin term, what he has been doing in syria. and really it is a style of warfare that i think is shocking to the rest of the world. it may, it may be unusual, it may, it may be because it's in europe rather than chechnya or syria. it shouldn't be that different. but in fact, i think people understand this is a very brutal form of warfare, and it's not, it's not going to achieve rushes objectives to say the least any, a form of warfare, brutal, but it's much more careful of the civilian casualties than the american style. and since you mentioned, say, lee, i should because that's the key style. because in theory, if you remember, if you look at the map of theory and hearing that offensive, there were lots of opposition. how enclave located right next to the government controlled areas. precisely because a frosh, a refusal to use heavy artillery on heavily populated areas. that's a very different from the way the americans form that war. and the russians brought a totally new style of warfare to the middle is to reach th

and anyone who's looked at chechnya would recognize much of what we're seeing in ukraine today. say in syria the past years of just the hospitals and schools and whole cities just flattened. do you think that is the world, are we prepared for that to happen in ukraine, for him to destroy these cities and just kill tens of thousands for his aims? >> i don't think the west is quite ready for what's yet to come. but if you take a look at the conflict in chechnya, we can get a sense of what the strategy will be. a 1-3 year period the putin regime, through its offensive there, took a population of about a million people and an area the size of connecticut, they displaced about half a million people, 50% of the population, and they killed between 10-20% of the population. so imagine a place the size of connecticut with a population roughly the size of new hampshire falling apart within a matter of a few years. now, the putin regime's going to have a much harder time in ukraine which is a country of 444 million people, bigger than the state of texas -- 34 million. he's moving from coun

he starting with crimea but i will go back to 99 and chechnya it i i will go back to 99 and chechnyan in 99. it is as simple as that, when gross neat was level _ simple as that, when gross neat was level that _ simple as that, when gross neat was level that is— simple as that, when gross neat was level. that is where the west fell down _ level. that is where the west fell down on — level. that is where the west fell down on its own principles and everything that it believes it stands — everything that it believes it stands for. for some reason, none of that mattered when it came to mastering people in chechnya, and that is— mastering people in chechnya, and that is where this whole crisis starts — that is where this whole crisis starts l— that is where this whole crisis starts. ., that is where this whole crisis starts. ~' ., , ., starts. i think the real question here is this _ starts. i think the real question here is this only _ starts. i think the real question here is this only ends _ starts. i think the real question here is this only ends with i starts. i think the real questi

and so, it's very different from what he's done before, except in chechnya.s similar to what he did in chechnya. >> sreenivasan: on the one hand, he has managed to unite an enormous portion, the majority of the world, against him. yet india and china, who are not on board with what he's doing per se, but they're not standing strongly against him. and those are two very important countries with significant resources. not that they might send troops and tanks to him, but that they might not ice him out. >> you know, what i would recommend that we do is rather than paying attention to what these countries say and the rhetoric that they use, to pay attention to the actions that they take. and it will surprise me a lot if china goes against the sanctions regime because we know in 2014 they did not. chinese state owned corporations and chinese state owned banks rely so much on the western market and on banks that have an influence coming from the u.s. banking system that they did not violate those sanctions. so, it will be a real surprise if even countries that do

he's been a war criminal since 2000 in chechnya. he did it again in 2015.nds of civilians. it's horrific. we never had knowledge about it because the international media ignored it. it was happening in -- we would get pieces of it, but not the everyday unrelenting view of what is taking place almost by the hour, which we're doing here with ukraine. so yeah, this is the right move. >> neil: you know, we had a former ukrainian minister on who has joined the fight as have so many government officials. stars, celebrities. he had an interesting take on this controversy about this controversy making its way to kyiv and the russian soldiers didn't know the mission or slowing the mission. they said they had no idea what they were up to. he said russians are liars. he didn't believe it. he said it was a head fake. what did you think of that? >> no, i really don't know. i do know this: there's serious problems certainly operationally. they didn't not plan this operation to support the operational campaign plan of attacking on four axis same tampa bay usually. the off

first will be chechnya, and chechnya had a situation where some of the leaders in the russian federatione 1990s. and that was the result -- the result that was too vicious wars. and at the end of the war, there was basically the flattening of the capital grozny and eventually the recruitment of a klan leader, who would become a russian dependent in the new chechnya and that is still part of the russian federation. the second example is georgia, an independent country. hence, more like ukraine. and here, the result was a war that was successful from the point of view of the russians, was the de facto influence of two new areas that used to be part of georgia and are now debated lee sovereign states but very much dependent on russia. when we think about ukraine, i obviously one solution would be some kind of territorial division. >> right. >> but after the last month of war, i think it's very difficult to imagine that ukrainian leaders want to give up any of their territory. flattening of capitals, the capital cities and countryside, the destruction of villages, that is going on as we spea

and i think in the previous hour, we talked about chechnya, the reference to chechnya, i was there as a reporter after the second war, at the end of the second war, and they had destroyed the town. that was the capital of chechnya that was revolting against moscow, they carpet bombed it worse than anything has seen in europe since world war ii and we see that kind of brutality there, we see it here here, and we're seeing it in ukraine day after day. >> ambassador, to peter's very point, we shouldn't be surprised to see vladimir putin breaking international norms, but when we sit here and say, you know, this could constitute war crimes, this is unprecedented, or yesterday, when the u.n. general assembly condemned this, urged russia to change course, does any of this matter? are we speaking a language that means nothing to vladimir putin? he was never in it for the norms. >> great point. after world war ii, we wrote down a lot of norms, we created the u.n. security council, one the norms was thou shall not an ex the territory of thy neighbor, that's how world war ii started through an e

and neighboring dagestan. >> narrator: putin struck chechnya with incredible force. >> (speaking russianated): this was his decision. he was angry. and he wanted to punish the separatists. >> he is seen on tv as a doer, a man of action. he goes down there. he's talking to the troops. he is in command. >> narrator: as putin suited up for the cameras, his political fortunes were on the rise. ♪ ♪ and just a few months later, he was inaugurated as russia's new president. >> (translated): the powers of the head of state have been turned over to me today. >> narrator: putin's first promise to the russian people: strength. >> (translated): i assure you that there will be no vacuum of power, not for a minute. >> he came to power because of the war in chechnya inside russia's own borders. just as brutal as the horrors that we're seeing in ukraine today. again, against a part of his own country. they are willing to destroy the village in order to save it. >> narrator: as president, he wasn't just presenting himself as the strongman. he commissioned film and photo shoots. >> he is a man who is obse

you mentioned chechnya.mbassador to russia, michael mcfaul, former director of national intelligence james clapper here on cnn calling putin unhinged. but hasn't this always been his m.o., the way he operated, whether it's chechnya, whether it's crimea, whether it's georgia, even poisoning his enemies at home and abroad? >> there is no doubt. clapper and mcfaul, both of whom i worked for and with know him well. this is part of his style. it's how authoritarians work and especially in russia. it is something that is very common. the biggest question in my mind is this, of course, was entirely unprovoked in ukraine. there was no -- despite russian propaganda, there was no threat of attack. there was no reason for him to go into ukraine except for the fact that this is something that putin decided that now is the time to go ahead and do it. again, the great strangeness of the whole thing is that as he looks at the situation, he has achieved the exact opposite of everything that he hoped to. so that part is inex

the play book, if you go back to chechnya, for instance, 20 years ago was to level grozny, weapons.n for civilian life. no hesitation. and that's the concern, that we haven't seen the worst of it yet. and more importantly, that the people of ukraine haven't seen the worst of it yet. >> look, targeting civilians, whether it's a rational choice or irrational choice, it's an evil choice. the outcome is the same either way. jim sciutto in lviv, thank you very much for this reporting. we'll check in back with you in a little bit. >> thanks. >>> fighting in ukraine has pushed more than half a million people to flee to neighboring countries and the number is rising exponentially hour after hour, according to the united nations. at a train station in poland, this one here, 20 minutes from the border, there are large crowds that have arrived from kyiv seeking shelter, trying to figure out what to do next. nearly 400,000 ukrainians have already fled to poland. border guards say they have seen 24,000 cross into poland so far just today. joining us now is the polish ambassador to the u.s. sir,

they used it in chechnya and they used it in syria where they were actively known to target hospitals they would get the coordinates of the hospitals from the u.n. and target them on purpose. this is a longstanding russian target, we recognize it and we should know it for what it is. >> before we move on to the next map, colonel, what anne is saying is something i've heard from other military men and women, which is, this is not just a putin playbook, not just a russian playbook, and we are p -- ukraine is pawns in it. i can only hope this isn't true, but president zelenskyy says there are children under the rubble. >> i'm afraid president zelenskyy is probably right. you're right, this is ethnic cleansing at its worst and it's also part of the russian playbook. go way back in history to world war ii, go back to chechnya, go back to any of these conflicts russia has been involved in. this is exactly what they do and it is a complete violation of international law and standard wartime procedures. >> i want to turn now, as we wait for more details on this, ii want to turn to cnn reporti

the head of chechnya promised to enter on the same armored cars in kyiv well, right.r to the entire current leadership of ukraine if it can be done comfortably behind the wheel of an armored car. and the car is a good car. this one will reach warsaw. yes, it will even reach london. it was an international sawmill, see you in a week. in the meantime, take care of the country. glass spring i'm glad today at the apartment house on ntv cheers everything that's inside. light snow is flying up

the war in chechnya is vladimir putin's original sin.ings in apartments in russia. now, nobody doubts this is a deliberate provocation. imagine the mindset, of a man, who would go up peaceful citizens of his own country because those bombings happen in the middle of the night to create a pretext for war and begin this propaganda to come to power. this is how he began. >> he was try family coming in like he won world war ii single- handedly. >> the first thing putin did when he came to power, when he became president after president laura schultz and, he started another war. the war against civil society, and independent media in russia. he shut down all of independent television networks. he began imprisoning his opponents. all the while, transformed russia from the imperfect democracy we had back in the 90s to the perfect dictatorship it is today. all this time, western leaders, both west european and north american, continued to welcome him to summits, offer him proper treatment. exactly. so, this is the way that a dictators mindset wo

their conduct in chechnya was l their conduct in chechnya was reprehensible.cal conduct of warfare. we saw— in the ethical conduct of warfare. we saw that in aleppo and we saw chemical— we saw that in aleppo and we saw chemical weapons in aleppo and the waistcoat _ chemical weapons in aleppo and the waistcoat with the british game of the american scheme of the french reached _ the american scheme of the french reached out to punish the machine there _ reached out to punish the machine there but— reached out to punish the machine there but the russians who collaborated in those attacks stood try collaborated in those attacks stood by and _ collaborated in those attacks stood by and that was her principal. they may destroy it and then walk back into that _ may destroy it and then walk back into that may want very happy mariupol but i do not see the ukrainian _ mariupol but i do not see the ukrainian people tolerating that enable — ukrainian people tolerating that enable fight to the last person to defend _ enable fight to the last person to defend their capital

when you go over what he did in grozny, what he did in chechnya. i got to tell you, this is fabulous, put up by the army, it doesn't take long to read, chechen wars what you see is putin comes in, and he says, what the heck are we doing here? let's level the city with artillery because our soldiers won't get hurt i think what people are forgetting is you can level a city with artillery. this is the threat i don't understand why people aren't talking about it. it's been the pattern. it was the pattern in syria, and it was the pattern in chechnya so what the heck are we thinking we think that, you know what, he's just going to like say that was it. >> all right, well, unlike our country in 2003 where there's actual pressure that can be brought to bear because we're a democracy, it's unclear where the pressure will come from. >> one of the things that his -- there was reckless disregard for killing civilians in syria and in chechnya. by the way, a lot of russians died in chechnya. >> a lot of russians are dying here as well a lot of soldiers are dying

they're all too familiar to the people of chechnya, georgia, and syria.re than 20 years of moscow's unbridled aggression on some of those countries after this. ancestry's helped me really understand my family's immigration experience and what life st have been like for them. and as i pass it on to my daughter, it's an importt part of understanding who we are. >> tech: does your windshield have a crack? trust safelite. >> tech vo: this customer had auto glass damage, but he was busy working from home... ...so he scheduled with safelite in just a few clicks. we came to his house... ...then we got to work. we replaced his windshield and installed new wipers to protect his new glass, while he finished his meeting. let safelite come to you. >> man: looks great. thank you. >> tech: my pleasure. that's service on your time. schedule now. >> singers: ♪ safelite repair, safelite replace. ♪ if you really wanna find out what you're made of, you can forget the personality tests and social media quizzes. because the only way you're ever gonna know is by heading into t

chechnya in this matter. you understand not to borrow. well, kadyrov also instructed the chechen fighters to take kiev as soon as possible by direct quotation, but still, it is remarkable that the conversation is no longer only about war, but also about peace, and the restoration of donbass and mariupol, russia will definitely be restored, look. group command well done any question there is no problem right away, and we are in touch with me adamuskay. this is what we need, what needs to be done is to eat at the request of the lord's offer, my relatives are not, you have everything order of friendship thank you very much. that's the belt, thank you very much. yes, the president set us the task of quickly clearing it. it’s not fair, he should restore these regions and the republic of the republic to the house next to the house and build a peaceful life, like we have in the chechen republic. we will carry out the task set by our supreme wave commanders so that it doesn’t cost us there and are ready to go further. by the way, the cadres just

i think in the previous hour we talked about chechnya. i was in rosalia as a reporter after the second war. and they had destroyed the compounds. the compound of chechnya that was the result against moscow. almost anything that anybody has seen in europe since world war ii. and we've seen that mentality there, we see it here in ukraine. and we're already seeing in ukraine day after day. >> ambassador, to peter's point, we should not be surprised to see vladimir putin breaking international norms. but when we sit here and say that this constitute war crimes? this is unprecedented! or yesterday, when the un assembly condemned this, urged russia to change course. does any of this matter? are we speaking and language that speaks nothing to vladimir putin? he was never in it for the norms. >> great point. after world war ii, we were down a lot of norms. we created the un security council. one of the norms was, thou shall not annexed the territory of that a neighbor. that's where world war ii started, through annexation. sure enough he did that

putin came in and slammed chechnya, took every building made.erson was killed, every -- was somehow eliminated. he has that in him. the worry going forward is that is what he's going to do to ukraine. the world will be watching this time, and was not one he did it 20 years ago to chechnya. that's where we come into work crimes territory. >> the investigation does go back that far. >> that's a good point, we couldn't see it. when the president says on one part of the sentence -- it's kind of like "you are brilliant --" it's all coming together. after you are fully like-minded, or you are not. we will move on. brand-new video from fox news alert: horrific devastation american from a town northwest of kyiv, following an attack by the russian military. it's kind of foggy great cars burning or destroyed, buildings destroyed. this looks like file footage of world war ii. parts of it when you look -- obviously, not the size of some of the buildings, the more contemporary textures, but they are reducing cities to rocks and sand. it's heartbreaking. not

it may, it may be unusual, it may, it may be because it's in europe rather than in chechnya or syria. it shouldn't be that different, but in fact, i think people understand this is a very brutal form of warfare, and it's not, it's, it's not going to achieve rushes objectives to say the least any form of warfare, brutal, but it's much more careful of the civilian casualties. than the american style. and since you mentioned, we actually called that style. because in theory, if you remember, if you look at the map of theory and hearing that are fancy, there were lots of opposition. how enclave located right next to the government controlled area of precisely because a process refusal to use heavy artillery on heavily populated areas that is very different from the way the americans for the war. and the russians brought a totally new style of warfare to the middle is which the middle east actually appreciates. believe it or not. yeah. well, we could take a vote of that throughout the middle east. i mean, i think russia and some of that would be our to, to, to attack the civilian targets.

next thing you know you end up in chechnya.country going to end up the same way, chechnya? >> can chechnya become a model what we're seeing now. if it is, it's a horrible model. it's basically surrounding the city, kill everyone and then pave it over and rebuild it. it might take a decade. it might take 20 years. if a war goes on that long, one thing i noticed in chechnya that might happy in this war too, is that people change. the fighters on the ground change. if your house getting destroyed, if your family member getting killed, you fight differently. the fear of battle gets wider. you attack schools like they did in moscow. fears, terror attacks. this kind of war if it goes on, people change. they get little crazy. >> bill: you're saying that the ukrainians will change? they will fight in ways that are unforeseen. >> you summed it up. >> julie: it's incredible. the president of ukraine has handed out 25,000 guns to ukrainians. these are volunteers. these are not military members. they are lacking supplies. these people are

what do you know about the mercenaries out of chechnya? >> vladimir putin prosecuted totally unjust war full of war crimes and atrocities against chechnya. he made a deal with the local strong man, the head of chechnya. in return for giving chechnya some economic freedom, the mercenaries are at putin's beck and call. when putin needs hit men to fight wherever, they do that. it gives putin a little bit of a degree of non-attribution. he could say that this wasn't me, this was chechnya and that might suit vladimir putin. vladimir putin is a purveyor of lies and disinformation. unimaginable that chechyans would be holding ukrainian scientists hostage at gun point at a nuclear power plant that russia attacked. i can tell you in our military -- i served in war zones. we put a big red line around civilian infrastructure, nuclear power plants. we would advise our u.s. military of these places so we would be sure not to conduct strikes against these places. russia is doing it deliberately. >> dana: dan hoffman, thank you so much. >> bill: horrific

he's starting with crimea, but i will go back to 1999 and chechnya and then we go to aleppo and syriaith ben wallace talking about appeasement at the beginning of the war. the appeasement began in 1999. it is as simple as that, when grozhny was levelled. that is where the west fell down on its own principles and everything that it believes it stands for. for some reason, none of that mattered when it came to massacring people in chechnya, and that is where this whole crisis starts. i think the real question here is this only ends with some sort of negotiated settlement. and what russia has demanded, which is recognition of crimea as russian territory, allowing donestk and luhansk to be recognised as independent states and neutrality for ukraine, now the neutrality for ukraine is the easy part, right? those two other things are really hard for president zelensky to accept. and i don't see how you get to a deal without solving those two things. and him saving face. so you've a situation where putin needs an offering, but zelensky need a deal he gets out of the public and in a weird way