chesebro as possible. so, again, in terms of what the jury will hear, all of that will probably be at least attempted to be well-scripted by the parties outside of the jury's presence before they go forward. >> joyce vance, could that be part of defendant chesebro's strategy at the moment thinking that the only way or the best way for me to try to win is to be alone in that courtroom because i don't want the -- to be affected in a negative way by the other defendants, and i want the sympathy of the jury being there alone and let that jury wonder where all the other people who were part of this conspiracy. >> yeah, i think that's exactly right, lawrence. it could easily be his strategy, and it's not a bad strategy for that single defendant to point his finger at the empty chairs and say it was these other people. i wasn't the president of the united states. i had no stake in the outcome of this election, i was simply giving legal advice. that might have worked for chesebro until we learned a couple of weeks

chesebro as possible. so again, in terms of what the jury will hear, all of that will probably be, at least attempted to be well scripted by the parties outside of the jury's presence before they go forward. >> joyce vance, could that be part of defendant chesebro's strategy at the moment? thinking that the only way or the best way for me to try to win is to be alone in that courtroom, because i don't want to be affected in a negative way by the other defendants. and i want the sympathy of the jury being there alone and what that jury will wonder where are all the other people who were part of this conspiracy? >> yeah, i think that's exactly right, lawrence. it could easily be his strategy, and it's not a bad strategy for that single defendant to point his finger at the empty chairs and say, it was these other people. i wasn't the president of the united states. i had no stake in the outcome of this election. i was simply giving legal advice. that might have worked for chesebro entail we learned a couple o

no indication chesebro entered the capitol building or engaged in violence, but shortly after chesebro and jones left the steps on the east side, the capitol was breached again as the mob poured into the doors. in all, more than 2,000 rioters would enter the building, vandalizing and looting, attempting to prevent a joint session of congress from counting the electoral college votes. the house committee investigating january 6 would eventually call it the final step in donald trump's plan to try and overturn the election, a plan that started in earnest with kenneth chesebro. and we're hearing from kenneth chesebro's attorney who told us last night he spoke to my coll colleague saying they're going to allow the legal process to play out and that they're declining to issue any public comment at this time. and that sort of has been chesebro's thing. he hasn't wanted to talk about it before the january 6th committee. he pleaded the fifth. he claimed attorney/client privilege for most of the interview. he is one of the people who is going to have to surrender in georgia next week by friday.

i never dealt with kenneth chesebro.was an attorney who came in when the former president stopped listen to his white house counsel. as we saw in the indictment, there will be violence in the streets if you do this. i am old enough to remember ten ye years ago in the gop, if you were paling around with alex jones, you would have been chased out. he was very much involved in this effort we know and had a close line to the white house. >> do you think this has legal implications for the president's pending cases, for the president? not just for chesebro? >> no, not for the president. it does speak to sort of the inner play here between the legal team, the events of january 6th, and that the fringe became the center of the republican party at this moment. alex jones was the fringe of the republican party and yet the people who were with him, the lawyers that were advising alex jones were part of the electoral college scheme. it came together in a really terrible, violent way on january 6th. >> i want to ask you, the frontru

yes, one of the lawyers that helped do this was kenneth chesebro, and yes kenneth chesebro did it partlye memos that what i had said about florida in the case of bush v. gore could somehow be extrapolated to all the states, wisconsin, michigan, pennsylvania, arizona. new mexico, he completely twisted everything out of shape. and to get into the weeds of how he did it, it's really basically piling on. i don't think i need to do that, the indictment makes it clear. a lot of other scholars have now gone into it. there is an essay on msnbc. com by norm eisen and fred today that explains it all. i don't want to make it look like, oh, i am offended that chesebro did something to my work. that's really not what the important point is. the important point is that a number of lawyers unlike the great tradition of making even pretty bold arguments in court, in open court. just an adversary and a judge to weigh things. a number of lawyers and secret writing confidential memos, twisting the law, with nobody on the other side. it's a lot like what alan dershowitz did. in the senate, although, that wa

chesebro is being investigated by various bar committees for possible disbarment. that's why i imagine it's likely that he will be indicted, probably by fani willis because georgia was gonna be one of the victims of the scheme that really he, even more than john eastman, engineered. that's why he may well be separately indicted by jack smith, not necessarily the superseding indictment but a separate indictment of one or more of the coconspirators. good example of what lawyers shouldn't ever do>> what we seee now that we ha the point you've ma t these story of the we had all been con on eastman, the attention, but starts with che what did it feel like for you when you finally saw this memo in which he surgically removes the last few words of a sentence you wrote there is about the state of florida and only about the state of florida. he surgically removes those words and applies them, in effect, by implication, to all 50 states. this obviously is not harvard law school practice. you'd be in big trouble doing that kind of thing on an exam or a paper. but how did you

ken chesebro is only charged with a bunch of conspiracy charges. he doesn't have his fingerprints on things in the way that donald trump has his fingerprints on things or some of the other defendants. donald trump also has an election to campaign for. >> speaking of that election, what we are looking at now is a remarkable image some thought we would never see. sara, we covered trump together in the white house. his first few indictments, they made up a fake mug shot that they were selling on t-shirts. there was this sense of they felt upset there wasn't a mug shot before. now that there's a real one, how does it change the calculus for them? zbliets hard to imagine they don't somehow use this to their advantage or attempted advantage or fundraising or merchandising. you get the same emails i get in the run-up to his appearance here saying, i'm going to be arrested, please donate. we know they need the money because they've spent a lot of money on legal fees, not just for the former president but on a number of witnesses and codefendants involved t

chesebro is entitled to that if he wants it.presumably some of the cases will be dropped off, et cetera. he got a new attorney today, donald trump, i would think that would bolster an argument that he has even more time to collect himself and prepare. >> i think that's right, i don't think that's why he got the attorney i think that steve is a good lawyer he will be great in the case, i think he is confident i'm used to handling the larger cases, high profile cases, that will be fine. but there is no way that the lawyer can be ready on the case having just gone in that amount of time especially the lead defendant in a case. the constitution guarantees the defending the right to have an effect of laura not just a lawyer but somebody who is affective, to have that you have to have time to prepare. dolores of the half the time. the judge is not gonna hold him or anybody else to this day. chesebro wants it and i think those are good strategic move because it throws down the gauntlet and says let's move forward, you have a case on us

chesebro told mr. eastman, as they discussed filing illegal action, that in terms of the highest court, the quote, odds of action before january 6th will become more favorable if the justices start to fear that there will be wild chaos on january 6th unless they rule by then, either way, and quote. that is a story. joining us now, the former united states attorney and professor at the university of alabama law school. jim kirschner is a former federal prosecutor and the host of the justice matters podcast. they are both msnbc legal analysts. good evening to both of you. joyce, tell me about this, we have wondered for a long time as these cases of the people who were in front of the capitol, and inside the capitol on january 6th move forward, what the connections are and have been and were with those people on the other side of pennsylvania avenue. those people who were scheming to overturn this election. now, this guy, kenneth chesebro, yet another name that a whole lot of people did not know a couple

kenneth chesebro. and his attorney says mr. chesebro will look forward to whatever date the court sates. this is of interest to donald trump because he brought on a new lead attorney, steven sadow, replacing drew finling who had been working on the case for the last year. i want you to get a little bit of a look outside the jail hours before donald trump is expected to arrive here. take a listen. >> it's just a beautiful thing to have someone who's just a regular guy come out and with his flaws say sarcastic things are nothing but the truth. >> he's never lied. >> reporter: i want to ask you guys, by a show of handles, who thinks the 2020 election was stolen. >> pastor, get over here. here's our pastor right here. >> reporter: so everybody here thinks the 2020 election -- >> absolutely. it was. >> reporter: chris, we expect donald trump to arrive here later on this evening for his official booking process, those are supporters who are on the front side of the jail. there are dozens of his backers who have been here over the cou

chesebro. so this is a very interesting play. i don't think that we will see a trial begin in october, but nonetheless, this is obviously something that we'll all be watching. >> but charles, is it easier to be trying these candidates -- candidates -- defendants i should say, one at a time, given, you know, if you have all of them before a jury, you're dealing with all of their lawyers, all the cross examinations, all the motions that may come from each individual client -- lawyer's client along the way, which as we discussed previously only, you know, makes it more likely that this trial process gets dragged out. >> you're absolutely right. i think that typically what you would see in a case of this nature is that the defendants would be grouped and tried in groups. not necessarily 19 at a time, but usually groups between four and six. those are going to be based on what they are culpable of and what they're responsible for doing in terms of how you make the decision of whom to pair with whom. donald trump is someone you would h

>> right, so ken chesebro has filed for a speedy trial demand.eans is about four months after that demand you are supposed to be brought to trial or else that could be grounds for dismissal in the state does not bring you to trial within that period of roughly four months. and yesterday we saw that judge mcafee went ahead and sat ken chesebro's file for october 23, 2023, which was the date that fani willis and her team suggested. but trump's new attorney pretty expectedly, you know, opposed that date and said trumpwise oppose being tried with anyone who makes a speedy trial demand like chesebro. so judge mcafee has said at this time he's only setting that october 23, 2023 date as to chesebro and not to trump at this time, so i think what we will see play out over the next week as there are more legal developments here, we'll see potentially judge mcafee making some judgment calls whether or not to sever or separate people like trump who do not want to join chesebro's speedy trial demand. so it's possible that chesebro could be tried by himself se

chesebro has done recently. >> you wonder why. clearly, there is a lot of counsel now getting involved. what is the strategy in all of the moves? >> look. each defendant, and particularly the ones that are lower down the chain of culpability prefer to be severed, and it is easier for kenneth chesebro to be sitting down from trump and the other conspirator conspirators, and so i see why they want to peel off, and have them preview the evidence. i think that chesebro believes that if he is going first, the government will not be showing all of the cards in the trial, because of the looming and much more significant trial of the former president and other, and tactically, i understand why a defendant or two would want to go fast particularly if it is going to result in a severance which is favorable for them. >> i wanted to ask you about mark meadows, and we have talked about him in the past, and what you did and didn't get from mark meadows in your investigation for the january 6th congressional meeting, and he is trying to get a he

chesebro also appears to be a coconspirator number five, and -- chesebro is sort of everywhere, literallycation that mr. chesebro entered the capitol or acted violently on january 6th, this could greatly complicate his legal defense. as law professor notes, this evidence could be decided by prosecutors as further proof that chesebro was not operating as a bona fide legal advisor, but rather was an activist aligned in the cause to overturn the 2020 election. joining me now is christie greenberg, a former federal prosecutor for the southern district of new york, where she served as the deputy chief of the criminal division. thank you for being with me on this friday night. i wonder if you agree with ryan goodman's assessment that the presence of chesebro, on the january 6th insurrection, though not acting violently, could be a real problem for the defense he is trying to mount in a federal indictment? >> absolutely, it could. his lawyers are going to portray him as a lawyer sitting in his office, turning out memos, sending out legal theories, and just offering potential options to a client.

it is because chesebro requested a speedy trial.and now, joining us is elie honig, and former prosecutor michael zelden, and this is lost over the mug shot yesterday, but there is a trial set for 59 days from now in the georgia case, and it is not trump's, but man, this matters. >> it is such a big deal, because what has happened here is that the one defendant of 19, mr. chesebro wants a speedy trial, and you have a right under georgia trial to have a trial before the next judicial term. and if this holds, we will see a trial, and as you are trying the trial against mr. chesebro, you will have to put up all of the evidence, and you know who is sitting in the gallery watching that every move? the lawyers and the defendants of the other 18 people in this case, and taking notes and building the strategy and what is working for the prosecutors and the holes to exploit, and if this trial is going on, and a, we will see a trial, and b, it is enormous tactical advantage. >> and we will be seeing a trial, and cameras in the courtroom gaeoge

fani willis and kenneth chesebro are in agreement, yeah, that's fine. does that mean we might see a trial with just him or him and a few others as soon as october? >> reporter: possibly, but in order for donald trump to get out from under that trial date, a judge is first going to have to decide that his case should be severed from the rest of them, and the standard for zef whether state court or federal court, that the prejudice to you in having to sit next to another defendant is so high that you can't get a full and fair trial sits next to them. the fact that trump would rather be on the campaign trail, for example, doesn't constitute that kind of prejudice, nor does the fact that he has other indictments going on simultaneously. it remains to be seen -- first of all, we haven't seen trump's motion. he's just filed a notice that he intends to file his own motion, and it remains to be seen whether a judge will entertain that, and then of course there's the other issue, is this case going to be in the state court to begin with. i think mark meadow's mo

no comment yet from chesebro's lawyer on the revelations. now, when chesebro was asked by the january 6th committee whether he had any direct communications with donald trump about the election or the january 6th joint session of congress, he asserted his fifth amendment right against self-incrimination. chesebro also pleaded the fifth when asked whether he was in washington, d.c. during the first week of january leading up to the joint session. quote, i think just on that subject in terms of presidents and washington, d.c., i think i'll just take the fifth amendment and to the whole subject matter. weeks ago his december 6, 2020 memo, outlining a strategy to overturn biden's win. this newly surfaced video offering a key link between the plans to overturn the election of joe biden and the storming of the capitol. joining me is david corn, washington bureau chief for "mother jones." his book," american psychosis of the gop" coming out next month, and prosecutor joyce vance. this is huge to me, right? because what you had, a lot of these peopl

chesebro did not respond to requests for comment. >> chesebro was the architect of a strategy to just keep biden from getting to the magic number of 270, doing something that he knew was almost certainly unlawful to buy time. >> reporter: but the effort fell short of pushing then vice president mike pence to disavow certifying the 2020 election. pence has since become a key witness in the investigation. >> president trump asked me to put him over the constitution, but i chose the constitution. >> cbs news has learned chesebro is also likely one of the co-conspirators in the trump indictment but has not been charged. the next standoff in this case comes friday. a hear willing be held over what trump can and cannot say about the investigation. this comes after prosecutors sounded the alarm about comments the former president made on the trail and in social media. major? >> a key word in that memo, deprive. robert costa, thank you. >>> supporters of abortion rights in ohio are claiming victory after voters overwhelmingly rejected a ballot measure that would have made it more difficult to

the chesebro the codefendants surrender? the: chesebro request the codefendants surrender?t in georgia. he is entitled to that and he is entitled to a trial before november six for the trial to begin of this year and so october 23 was the date proposed by the prosecutor and accepted by the judge. proposed by the prosecutor and accepted by thejudge. he is entitled to that date. now what is going to happen is there is going to bejust a is going to happen is there is going to be just a tremendous volume of what is called motion practice for a lot of defendants looking to sever and waving their speedy trial rights, say "i am not ready" and so on. so i think that is going to be the next batch of action. i am going to be the next batch of action. iam not going to be the next batch of action. i am not expecting the removal petitions to the federal court to do much other than delaying the case. as other business is going to make for a lot of work for a lot of lawyers. for a lot of work for a lot of lawyers-— for a lot of work for a lot of la ers. , , :, :, , :, lawyers. just one mo

chesebro over e-mail. of those instances, someone like me can reverse engineer from the evidence available through the january 6th investigation that the house conducted who those people are. for example, in the indictment there's a reference to an e-mail between mr. chesebro and other people that is quoted in the indictment. looking at the january 6th committee's discovery, i can tell you, that unindicted coconspirator number 4 is robert sinners, director of the election day operations for the trump campaign in georgia. he's now the communications director for brad raffensperger, who as you know, is also a prominent witness here. i think mr. chesebro, with some home work, could unpack who many of these people are. on the other hand, if he's going to trial on october 23rd, it's not totally unreasonable for him to ask who some of the rest of them are. >> i have also had a chance to look at this new filing, the state of georgia versus donald john trump, and this is the argument that the lawyer for the former

if kenneth chesebro, if he is successful in getting, sorry, if chesebro is successful in severing his case, that bodes well for, sorry, is don trump's successful in severing his case, that would have an effect on everybody else in this case as well, correct? and likewise, if mark meadows is able to move his case into federal court, that also would apply to everyone in that case, in this case. is that correct? >> it's not clear. the removal statute says that when you have a federal official acting within the scope of his duties and others under his direction, they may remove the case to federal court. and so i think all of this turns on whether anyone was really acting within the scope of the authority of the native states of america. i think it's a pretty easy answer. the answer is no. but if a judge were to find that mark meadows and donald trump are acting within the scope of their authority and these others were simply acting at the direction to advance the interests of the country, not a candidate or the campaign, but the country, then they could come along as well. but it could b

chesebro as filed a demand for a speedy trial. under georgia statute, if he isn't -- the trial hasn't begun before the end of the term of court, which here, i think, is november the 6th, he would be entitled to an acquittal. regardless of what happens, because mr. chesebro has made this demand, it looks like he is going to have to have a trial within the next two months. >> glenn, it sounds like distributor any willis wants to get some organization here on the question of how many people are going to be in the speedy trial? there's another defendant now asking for a speedy trial. district attorney willis is saying, as of now, i want all of the defendants in the speedy trial. she is asking the judge to think about two things at once, a speedy trial and severance, and, therefore, if you are going to sever, create a deadline for motions to sever so we can get donald trump's motion to sever. everyone else's motion to sever in the court, considered at the same time. >> yeah, and i agree that the judge has not really taken up the questi

you know, it's easy for him to say, no, that was chesebro's idea.doesn't care about these people. i bonder when people finally have that moment, there's the kraken lady. that they say, you know what, yeah, this ain't worth it. i'm going to try to help myself and not help trump. >> that's it exactly. i'll add to humbling and humiliating and sobering, terrifying. you take a step into that kind of booking environment and you contemplate that being your residence, maybe for the rest of your life, it focuses the mind on your own self interest right quick. so, we're seeing that already. this is a very sort of dynamic time in the fulton county proceedings themselves, joy, in which ken chesebro, jeff clark, mark meadows, david shaffer have all made efforts to, one way or another, get themselves out of it other than just toeing the line for donald trump. so, for trump, it's a very dangerous time. and you add to that that for most of them they don't have the money to -- for the exorbitant bills of defending themselves and trump isn't giving it to them. he, mo

and i want to redo what chesebro said in a statement, in his defense.i think this is his lawyer, actually. mr. chesebro is asked to provide -- he applied his legal acumen to these complex legal issues. based on that exceeding existing legal president, he summarized his finding writings. whether the campaign relied on that -- we hope the full indeed special counsel floyd recognize these issues before deciding who, if anyone, to charge. what do you make of that? >> well, i'm not shocked by that approach. john eastman has made similar arguments in his state bar proceeding, hey i'm just giving legal advice. but when you look at this, as lisa mentioned, when you look at these documents together in a sequence of events, it's very clear that what went from back in november, and idea that we should have contingent electors, backing up for the viewers a little bit, the idea was december 14th electors need to meet. and the hard and fast deadline under the. while law and hey, we've got all these court challenges, and what if we win one of those after december 14th

and made it clear that it's just for chesebro at this time. and, so i don't think it's what we're gonna see even him try to tie day or more than one of the defendants tried on that day. we've talked about how on we leave the cases, how complex the cases. just on the facts alone, she's pulling in a lot of information. not just about things that happen in georgia. but remember, everything -- part of the allegation there they're sending that data outside of the state. to what end? we don't know. they're gonna discovery and all that. but i think it highlights what we're dealing with here. and the october is technically what has to happen for a speedy trial reasons. in all likelihood, -- this discovery process does not begin now. for those who have been following along at home in some of these federal trials, the discovery process seems underway after the surrender. >> yes it's already started. >> that's not happening in georgia, right? it will not likely not have until september, is that right? >> perhaps. and we'll see. the judge has the sort of

chesebro cited what he described as mr.'s legal views, along with writing as by several liberals as potential fodder for a messaging strategy. it would be the height of hypocrisy for democrats to resist january 6th as the real deadline or to suggest that trump and pence would be doing anything to -- he wrote, joining us now is professor laurence tribe, teaching constitutional at harvard law school for five decades. mr., triborane the middle of tonight's breaking news story. i know you've had time to read it. what is your reaction to what you have discovered about yourself in this memo that the times has reported on? >> i have to say, i did not recognize myself. i haven't often been fodder for anything. what kenneth chesebro did was take stuff that i had said in the year 2000 about florida, and florida law did not set a deadline just before midnight on december 12th. it allowed counting all the way up until january 6th. the date of the joint session, and in fact, maybe even beyond. that was about florida law. remember, tim r

i think it's an interesting gambit by chesebro. he might want to be the canary in the coal mine on this one, might want to distance himself from president trump, t might wt tore challenge the d.a. to see she was in fact ready to go. it was a bold and interesting move today. >> what do you make of the speedy trial request by kenneth chesebro. >> look, it is fani willis' burden. she knows it's her burden. she has to prove the case beyond a reasonable doubt. and i assume the reason for the delay as barb mentioned she knew this was a possibility because of this unique feature in georgia lawtu where someone can demand and get a speedy trial. it's not that dissimilar than in federal court, but it is rare that somebody does this as barb said. sometimes it can play to an advantage.va barb's right to point to the tet stevens case. i've seen it sort of rarely done even when you have both sides sort of racing to prepare, the government usually wins on that. i mean this is a really risky gambit for the defense to do. if fani willis has her duc

chesebro did not respond to requests for comment. >> chesebro was the architect of a strategy, just keepof 270, doing something that he knew was almost certainly unlawful to buy time. >> reporter: but the effort fell short of pushing then-vice president mike pence to disavow certifying the 2020 election. pence has since become a key witness in the investigation. >> president trump asked me to put him over the constitution, but i chose the constitution. >> reporter: cbs news has learned chesebro is also likely one of the coconspirators in the trump indictment, but has not been charged. the next standoff in this case comes friday. a hearing will be held over what trump can and cannot say about the investigation. this comes after prosecutors sounded the alarm about comments the former president made on the trail and on social media. major? >> major: a key word in that memo: deprive. robert costa, thank you. we turn now to a closely watched battle over abortion. supporters of abortion rights in ohio are claiming victory after voters overwhelmingly rejected a ballot measure that would have ma

a judge has already scheduled an october trial for chesebro.response to the request, fani willis wants a trial for all 19 defendants at the end of october. but the defense team for former president trump is trying to delay the start. trump and his 18 codefendants are facing a variety of charges, including, racketeering and conspiracy. they all surrendered ahead of yesterday's noon deadline. cnn's jeremy herb is tracking the developments. what's next in this case? >> reporter: now that the 19 defendants have surrendered, we get into this very complicated process of how exactly this trial is going to proceed. the question of when the trial is going to happen is one of the first ones the judge is going to have to answer. another question is which venue is this trial going to take place. we learn on monday potentially whether or not defendants can move this case from state court into federal court. five of the 19 defendants have filed to move their case, including, mark meadows, jeffrey clark and three of the fake electors who said they were electo

they're going to use chesebro, chesebro, as a guinea pig. the only person hurt by this will be chesebro himself because i think that he is going to feel the brunt of going first. >> lisa, we know this is the fourth case against donald trump. which is the case you think he should be most concerned about? >> i think the case that is still poses the most risk to him is jack smith's federal election interference case. and that may well be, jose, the first case that is tried. that's where the special counsel's office asked for a january of 2024 trial date. you know, of course, that donald trump would like to try that case never and his lawyers propose april of 2026. on monday, judge chutkan of the federal court in d.c. will hold a hearing at which he's -- she's expected to rule on when that trial date will be. and both because of the timing and the severity of the charges, and the fact that trump is the sole defendant in that case and is expected to remain the soul defendant, i think that case still poses the greatest risk to him. even though the

>> i didn't know chesebro was with alex jones. committee certainly looked at thousands and thousands of video from all the different camera footage. we certainly looked at a lot of video footage of alex jones. it's quite possible that chesebro was in some of that footage and we didn't recognize him. one of the things about chesebro we've been learning there's more recent images that have come of late, and maybe that helped identify him here. >> yeah, does it tell you anything more, though, about the question of, what is the line? is there a line between the people who were leading the political part of this and the kind of election interference part, the fake electors, and the people who were breaking windows and breaking into the capitol? does it tell you anything more about that? >> you know, abby, one of the things we've seen in the press has been questioning how did somebody like kenneth chess borrow, with his pedigree and education, end up in the thing of this conspiracy to overturn the 2020 presidential election? we're start

the judge is artie set in october date for chesebro. they are rightfully trying to gain a tactical advantage here? or is this a miscalculation? >> well, look. i think at least in federal rico cases there ÃÃthey are often split up into the smaller trials with defendants or groups of defendants. that does not strike me as terribly unusual. if i were in position of being in a defense counsel here, i would be thinking separating myself from the la brea tar pit of the trial trump and meadows and giuliani. might be to my advantage. and try to indicate differences between my position, my interest in the defense i would like to make and that of trump and some of the others.they may be right and the may be wrong. a lot of people speculated that chesebro's lawyer and now powell's lawyer are thought that they could bluff the georgia prosecutors and into backing off. if that's what they thought, think they were making a big mistake. i think this is gonna have enormous consequences. >> yes. what does it say to you ÃÃ when you look at that the list o

for now the new date only applies to chesebro. and as of thursday's filing, trump voiced his opposition to that start date and intends to file a motion to separate his case from chesebro's >>> let's turn to new developments in hawaii maui county officials announcing that they are suing hawaii electric company over the devastating wildfires, alleging negligence the power company says it is focussed on supporting the community at investigation unfolds. overnight, officials in maui released a list of 388 people who they say have first and last names for and a contact for who reported them missing. our steve patterson has more on the recovery effort. >> reporter: more than two weeks since the deadly fire that devastated lahaina, search and recovery efforts are still ramping up hawaiian authorities and federal officials bumping the number of missing and unaccounted for to 1100 >> so we don't want to leave any stone unturned we're considering everybody on that list until we can prove they shouldn't be on that list >> reporter: as the de

the _ is a gamble on chesebro's bluff and is probably calling the bluff - is a gamble on chesebro'salling the bluff of the prosecutor but _ is probably calling the bluff of the prosecutor but everyone - is probably calling the bluff of the prosecutor but everyone is - prosecutor but everyone is interested _ prosecutor but everyone is interested in _ prosecutor but everyone is interested in donald - prosecutor but everyone is| interested in donald trump prosecutor but everyone is - interested in donald trump mainly. yes, interested in donald trump mainly. yes. the _ interested in donald trump mainly. yes. the other— interested in donald trump mainly. yes, the other ones— interested in donald trump mainly. yes, the other ones are _ interested in donald trump mainly. yes, the other ones are interestingj yes, the other ones are interesting and certainly— yes, the other ones are interesting and certainly rudy _ yes, the other ones are interesting and certainly rudy giuliani - yes, the other ones are interesting and certainly rudy giuliani it- yes, the other ones are interesting and certa

>> i didn't know that kenneth chesebro was with alex jones. we certainly looked at thousands and thousands of hours of video of all of the footage, and certainly looked at a lot of video footage of alex jones, and it is quite possible that chesebro was in that footage and we just didn't recognize him. one of the things about him that we have been learning is more images have been coming out as of late that helped identify him here. >> yeah, i mean, does it tell you anything more though about this question of what is the line? is there a line between the people who were leading the political part of this, and the kind of election interference part? the fake electors? and the people who were breaking windows and breaking into the capitol? does it tell you anything more about that? >> well, you know, abby, one of the things we've seen in the press recently is how does somebody like kenneth chesebro, with his pedigree and education and up in the thick of this, sort of conspiracy to overturn the 2020 presidential election, and we are starting to ge

to get this| context, attorney chesebro who was in the _ context, attorney chesebro who was in the employmp is alleged to have orchestrated the scheme — alleged to have orchestrated the scheme for for collectors and georgia _ scheme for for collectors and georgia. and, yes, it's scheduled for 0ctoher— georgia. and, yes, it's scheduled for october 23 and fani willis so she wanted to try all 19 defendants on that— she wanted to try all 19 defendants on that day. the court said for this purpose they are looking for the speedy— purpose they are looking for the speedy trial for him alone. now between — speedy trial for him alone. now between now and october 23, there will be _ between now and october 23, there will be a _ between now and october 23, there will be a lot of legal manoeuvring. there _ will be a lot of legal manoeuvring. there will— will be a lot of legal manoeuvring. there will be an arraignment. there will be _ there will be an arraignment. there will be discovery. there will be pretrial— will be discovery. there will be pretrial motions. and we can expect other— pretrial motion

one of the defendants, kenneth chesebro, asked for a speedy trial and d.a. fani willis said let's go. she also wants to try all the defendants beginning that day. >> georgia's secretary of state has been subpoenaed to testify against mark meadows this monday. that's when a hearing will be held to discuss whether trump's former chief of staff can move his case to federal court. >> and there is one co-defendant who had to spend the night in jail, harrison floyd, he's the leader of black voters for trump. he slept over after he failed to negotiate a bond agreement before surrendering. we're going to cover all of this, this morning. "cnn this morning" starts right now. >>> if you think about it, it was just five months ago that we were talking about maybe one indictment, maybe two, maybe three. and now it has been four and this one is different because this comes with a mug shot. >> fingerprints. >> inmate number. >> yeah. >> quite a night. >> a moment of history. >> for sure. this morning you're waking up to that moment of history. former president trump's mug

joyce, help us understand this memo from kenneth chesebro. walk us through what it means. and do you see this thing being a key piece of evidence? >> yes. this is definitely incredibly important. chesebro is, of course, widely believed to be coconspirator number five, one of the unindicted coconspirators in the trump indictment connected to january 6th. and here is what happens. chesebro, who is a harvard educated lawyer, someone who understands election law and has worked on these issued, issues comes up with this squirrelly theory that becomes this notion that you can use fake slates of electors to circumvent the will of the american people. and when he writes about it in 2020, he acknowledges that it's really pushing the envelope, and that the supreme court won't go for it. but he suggested we be put into in place because it can accomplish two goals. it can perpetuate this myth of fraud that trump ultimately pushes. it can also buy a little extra time for some litigation to proceed, and perhaps to add a few numbers to the trumps side of the occasion in the election. so

>> when the dose at this trial date for chesebro last, week he said the stage for chesebro alone at thiss probably making the calculus of october 23rd is not that far away, i already have sydney powell who wants a speedy trial. i have little trump who has already told the court that he intends to sever with but hasn't. yeah she's basically saying judge, it's time to move this train along. if you're going to several people, let's have a briefing. let's go through this process. but, it's a default position, i want you to know, judge, my position is, we should try all these -- >> what that's gonna do is shake loose the motion to sever, which trump's people have been sitting on because every day that goes by is good for them. >> yes, and -- >> they're not gonna get head of anything. they're not like the ones are gonna go okay we probably sent them motion to sever. we're gonna wait to the last minute to do. it >> and they're probably gonna see how the removal motion is going to come. donald trump has not filed his own motion for removal, but his lawyers were in the court during that hearing a

when kenneth chesebro said i demand a speedy trial, what did fani willis do? oh, i've got you a speedy trial right. here october 23rd, let's go. in fact, she said i'm ready to try all 19 defendants on october 23rd. now, judge mcafee said let's start with the defendant who demanded a speedy trial. now we have a second one. sidney powell, but she indicated, unflinchingly, she is ready to go against all 19. she has her ducks in a row. and then some. if this was kenneth chesebro trying to call fani willis's bluff, she called his bluff. now what he may do, ali, is once he begins to get the discovery dump, the millions of documents, he might say, judge, i withdraw my request for a speedy trial. i didn't realize i was going to be contending with so much evidence. so stay tuned for that. >> paul, if one law would like to see justice play out here, i've read all of the indictments. they are all very detailed. jack smith looks very prepared. fani willis looks very prepared. obviously, this will be tried, and there will be a jury of their peers. which one should one who