but brother david axelrod, he looks at the world through the lens of the establishment. well of course from the lens of the establishment, he is concerned about reproducing the establishment. my god, my god. there is no doubt about that. and the 1850s, both parties supported slavery. >> but i think he is more, you know david axelrod, he seems more interested in preventing former president trump from getting reelected. more than i would say recreating the establishment? >> yes, no, i am talking about the democratic party establishment, grow brother. axelrod, you see what i mean? you would agree, you are part of the democratic party establishment. >> i don't know. his interests, anyways, i don't want to speak for him. but you criticize president biden, saying that where he is contributing, in your words, i am quoting, contributed to a crime against humanity when he became the architect of the mass incarceration regime and the 1990s. you were a frank update 1994 violent crime law enforcement act that then senator by mid sponsors. he also said it is, quote, very clear that h

thank you, david axelrod. and you don't get much better than the picture of abe lincoln behind you. >>> and now, in iowa, the florida governor is trying to reset, and also to save his campaign. we will have the details there. >> and what we know about the new probe of the investigation just ahead. ♪ hehelps you stay connected, ♪ safe ♪ and charged. ♪ the all-new chevy trax starting at $21,495. the possibilities are endless. okay everyone, our mission is complete balanced nutritio together we provide nutrients to support immune, muscle, bone, and heart health. yaaay! woo hoo! ensure with 25 vitamins and minerals and ensure complete with 30 grams of protein. ♪ just the three of us girls. i never thought twice about feeding her kibble. but about two years ago, i realized she was overweight. she was always out of breath. that's when i decided to introduce the farmer's dog to her diet. it's just so fresh that she literally gets bubbles in her mouth. now she's a lot more active, she's able to join us on our adventur

joey: what david axelrod is talking about the fact that democrats managed to forestall the great marketingbeen happening the republican party for a long time, we saw with the tea party with trump in 2016. donald trump was a third-party candidate, he came in and beca republicans and to cover the republican party and beat democrats he's a third-partymo candidate that everybody wants tocr talk about, democrats have not been to that because they run their party was such an iron fist and don't let somebody liky that, they kill bernie sanders, tulsi gabbard, they are sothey wedded to the party and the system that they don't allow thn interloper to get in there. the polling just to finish that i think is a very serious issue for democrats and we see with rfk junior and cornell west. another thing that is interesting in south carolina donald trump at 48 and the son and daughter in south carolina, tim scott and nikki haley, you combine them and they reach halo of trump support and south carolina. the second thing ron desantis on april 1 the polling average had trump at 30, desantis at 30,t 30 trump

charlie: what david axelrod is talking about democrats have managed to force all the great reckonings happening for the republican party for a long time, we saw with the tea party and with trumpets 2016. donald trump was a third-party candidate. he came in and be republicans and took over the republican party and the democrats. he is a third-party candidate that everybody wants to talk about and democrats have not been to that because largely because democrats run their party with an iron fist. they don't want somebody like that, they killed bernie sanders in the crib. tulsi gabbard. they are so wedded to the party and system that they don't allow the interloper to get in there. on the polling just to finish the i think that is a very serious issue for democrats. we see with rfk junior and cornell west. another thing that is interesting, and south carolina you have donald trump at 48 and a son and daughter in south carolina, tim scott nikki haley, you combine them and they reach half of trump's important south carolina. the second thing, ron desantis on april 1, the real clear pollin

joining us, republican strategist alice steward and cnn's nia malik henderson and david axelrod is withwhy do you think mccarthy is threatening this impeachment inquiry right now? and what's the appetite that other republicans have for it? >> listen, i think if you're a moderate republican who is up for reelection in 2024, there is not a lot of appetite for this. there is a fear among some republicans that this would begin up the democratic base, sort of rally around biden. the reason mccarthy is doing this now is because he sort of failed in terms of getting impeachment inquiries in terms of the ag or even the homeland security secretary. so now they want a bigger fish. the question is this sort of messaging and it's not going to go anywhere, to please the far right, to please donald trump as well? that seems to be what it is. because you look at sort of the timeline that they're working with, they don't have a lot of time. typically, if they were to get this done, it would have to be done by the end of the year. the calendar is pretty packed. they're about to go on a six-week recess.

david axelrod tweeted saying in 2016 the green party played an outside role in the tipping to donald trump. now with cornell west, they could likely do it again. risky business. i know you said you don't believe jill stein made that big of a difference. how do you answer that critique that you will be siphoning votes away and potentially leading to a trump victory? >> well, part of it is that nearly 40% of our precious citizens every two and four years decide not to vote at all. and we know that the so-called spoilers, which is a category you can imagine i don't accept at all. two-thirds of those who vote, it could be gary johnson, jill stein, ralph nader, whoever. people say they'll never vote for the two parties. i can understand. those two parties become two corrupt. too many of the politicians themselves are just cowardly, will just say anything. what about truth? what about justice? truth and justice, bigger than all of us, bigger than every party, every race, every person. if you're concerned about truth and justice, then you can't be cowardly, complacent, and conformist. and e

first of all, this quote from david axelrod, our colleague who helped get barama elected, there is going, i don'kn why alarm bells aren't going off now, they should be at a steady drum beat from now until the election. i'm sure they were thrilled to see that in the white house. >> as they often are when david axelrod makes a comment like that. look, with the mixed metaphor that he used there, is getting at where democrats are thinking about this. and within the biden campaign itself, there's not concern so far about this. but the green party has a ballot line in a number of states already. i think it's 16 states already. they have been -- in 2016 they were in 44 states. when you think about the attention that's been going to this no labels possibility and how they could spoil the election, they are still getting on the ballot whereas the green party is much easier to get there and would be there with a candidate who is well-known among progressives, has celebrity and connection to a lot of black voters, and that is what is generating this. >> such an important point. and you have a quote

disqualify him from -- special correspondent jamie gangel, a former senior advisor to president obama, david axelrod lieutenant governor of georgia, jeff duncan. david, when you listen to governor desantis, there he doesn't -- he mentions the new york. case he doesn't even -- mention >> well, it's pretty disingenuous. this is a guy who was a drag in the military. if he had done, for example, the documents what president trump did, he knows he would be in prison. that's why he doesn't want to discuss that case. everyone is afraid -- they are tiptoeing through the minefield, because donald trump is still popular within the republican party. and they don't want to take it head on. >> jeff, why are they tiptoeing through the minefield, as david puts? it >> one of the most damaging affects donald trump has had on our party is that he's taught us to mistake honesty for weakness. that's a fatal flaw. you watch these folks try to step up to the line, and i think they are playing cute or some political advisers in their ear about the next fundraising. look, there is no other place to be on january 6th and it

i want to get perspective now from cnn senior political correspondent, david axelrod. rmer republican congressman, joe walsh. david, with a new charges, and the classified documents case, how do you see it impacting the campaign for the former president? >> you know, i have to see evidence, which i haven't seen so far, that it is going to influence it, at least in a negative way. that construct that you read of his, he has drilled it in again and again and again, each of these indictments is an effort on the part of the deep state. his political enemies in the biden administration to stop him from running and to pry people of their voice. to his supporters, that's been a compelling argument. right now, ever since these indictments started, he's actually climbed in the polls. anderson, i need to see some evidence that this is going to be somehow different than that. >> congressman, you republican senator, roger, marshall sidestepped questions about the new charges. saying he hadn't even heard. trump ally, and member of the gop leadership congresswoman elise stefanik, is

joined by two senior political commentators, adam kinzinger, former congressman, and david axelrod, former senior adviser to president obama. a commanding lead in two key primary states doesn't appear as though legal troubles amount to much for supporters in those states. do you think another indictment from the special counsel makes a difference? >> no, i mean, no. i think, look, every indictment, every legal issue makes it less likely that donald trump wins the presidency because certainly i think independents this will affect, and it will drive turnout from the democrats and may depress turnout a little bit on the republicans, but look, it is a sign of your fealty to republicanism if you just want to own the libs and owning the libs including i'm going to put donald trump back in despite all of this, and there's obviously this information warfare out there from the party, from other networks and stuff that basically is saying this is one big attack by the deep state against donald trump. so i don't know if this one strengthens him per se, i don't think it's going to hurt him. i think wh

want to get reaction from david axelrod, a former senior adviser to president obama.ents case, how do you see it impacting the campaign for the former president? >> you know, i have to see evidence, which i haven't seen so far that, it is going to influence it at least in a negative way. that construct that you read of his, he has drilled it in again and again and again that each of these indictments is an effort on the part of the deep state and his political enemies in the biden administration to stop him from running and to deprive people of their voice. and i think to his supporters that's been a compelling argument. and right now, ever since these indictments started, he's actually climbed in the polls. anderson, i need to see evidence that this is going to be somehow different from that. >> congressman, your republican senator roger marshall sidestepped saying the charges he hasn't heard. elise stefanik is railing against the new charges saying our justice system is broken. do you think the cake is already baked with the majority of congressional republicans on

i was to excited to see david axe axelrod's smiling face. i wanted to rush over here.ould never intentionally skip paula and her great reporting. alyssa, when you look at the former president's response to the target letter yesterday. he is the one who broke the news. his response yesterday what he said last night in iowa, how do you think he's taking this specific potential indictment. >> well, listen, he clung to some of the same lines he's been using. i'm being indicted for you. trying to say we have a weaponized department of justice. but for a while the trump team said they're most legally worried about the documents case, the mar-a-lago classified documents because it's much more of a straight-forward case. the politics of relitigating january 6th is something they're very worried about. this means for weeks if not months on end we'll talk about his worst day in office. people will relive that footage and officer fanone will talk about that day. i guarantee he is worried especially as there is a primary under way. he is running actively for president right now. l

ambassador nides: it is a great question and as you know several months ago, i was asked on david axelrod's podcast uh about what i uh what my advice has been to the prime minister -- several months, and the night before i did the podcast -- anyway, the night before did the podcast, i talked to my daughter who had met this new guy in she met him online and she liked him an da da da, and he's great, and i said tap the brakes, you just met this guy. so i had that in mind and when i went to the podcast he asked me the question, i tell the prime minister what i tell my daughter , tap the brakes. it did not go over as well, but anyway, the president of the united states wanted and asked to try to slow down and build consensus. that consensus was taking place under the auspices of the president -- who are as many of you on the phone are as well -- um, those meetings have been taking place the last few months and have broken down over the last couple of weeks. i don't know what will happen. i do know that we will not wake up and do all this legislation unilaterally. i do not bleed out. in my humbl

david axelrod, she would be interesting politician someday if so inclined. don't know if i would rather her be a journalist or princess kate, take your pick. >> greg: i don't really care about female women's soccer, i didn't even know it existed until today. the side sheic tatakes is outside the field. kids in locker rooms, that is where it is the problem. nobody really cares about the soccer, they care about what happens when there is a guy in the locker room and she sides with the guy. if there is a guy in your locker room and he is kien of aroused, which has happened00 >> kat: what locker room are you in? >> greg: the fox locker room. there will be a woman with an epenis or a technician and the guy will ask him to remove the hair around his testicles. >> what? >> greg: yes. you can google this stuff. my point being, she issic taking the side of somebody she perceives as a victim, when in fact it is the other people who are the victim. second question, lee, did you become a golf pro? >> not at all. take a pass on this question and give to kat and i'll take

james clyburn endorsed him on the eve of the soccer liner primary and suddenly the guy even they, david axelroder magooing his way through becomes the party nominee and then becomes president. a lot of things can change between now and january 15th little in between now and november 2024. neil: we follow closely and see how this goes. the 24 presidential candidate. getting the latest on housing. we had such little turnover in housing down to 1% of all us homes changed in the past year. we have that after this. i was told my small business wouldn't qualify for an erc tax refund. you should get a second opinion from innovation refunds at no upfront cost. sometimes you need a second opinion. [coughs] good to go. yeah, i think i'll get a second opinion. all these walls gotta go! ah ah ah! i'd love a second opinion. no. i'm going to get a second opinion. with innovation refunds, there's no upfront cost to find out. so why not check like i did for my small business? take the first step to see if your small business qualifies for the erc. if you have this... and you get this... you could end up with t

and then a guy that david axelrod said was mr. mcgooing his way through became the party nominee.hings can change between now and january let alone november of 2024. >> neil: a dozen republicans vying for the republican nomination. mitt romney is afraid that if some don't drop out soon and get their donors to do so and soon, it will tee up a nominee named donald trump. people might not have any problem with that. my next guest is saying why are you searching for that guy? andy sabans says he has him. a big donor to tim scott. he joins us right now. good to have you. >> hey, neil. nice to be with you. my friend, dick rosso sends his love. >> neil: give him my best. the former chairman of the new york stock exchange. let's ask you about what mitt romney saying. i know you don't believe your candidate should pull out. tim scott is polling well. he does have the resources. what romney is getting too, there's too many in the race and too crowded and tees up donald trump all over again, picking off a large field. what do you think of that? some for the better part of the party should go

know what happened to hillary clinton when jill stein ran, former senior strategist to obama, david axelrodw with cornell west as their likely nominee, they could easily do it again, risky business. the third-party threat doesn't end with cornell west. no labels is eyeing moderate democrat joe manchin to lead it. next week, it is hosting a common sense event featuring the senator in new hampshire, here is how joe manchin reacted. >> it is about the dialogue for common sense, which is hard to have here, find commonality. >> are you ruling out a third party bill? >> i never ruled out anything or ruled in anything, this is strictly a conference we're having. >> harris: gianno caldwell and -- the problem of losing votes at a time like this with all of the headwind, what do you make of what joe manchin just said? >> all this talk about spoilers, my spoiler alert is that a third party will not spoil the chance in 2024. democrats have seen this movie before, we're talking about 2016 and jill stein. democrats know the consequences, did not take it serious lee in 2016, thought hillary clinton was go

out front now david axelrod, senior adviser to president obama. ist or conspiracy theorist. he said and quote last week at a fund-raiser in new york. covid-19 is targeted to attack caucasians and black people. the most immune are ashkenazi jews and chinese. how can he say that and then say he's not racist and anti-semitic. >> you are looking at an ashkenazi jew who had covid twice, i either didn't get the benefit or someone lied to me about my heritage. those are blatant, racist tropes. he also compared the protocols for vaccines and covid to nazi germany and enslavement and he is very free and easy with those kinds of phrases and he's become the darling of conspiracy theorists and afficionados of those and of the far right. you know, he got a very warm welcome today from jim jordan. he's been embraced by tucker carlson and others for those reasons and his anti-corporate populism and for opposing our support for ukraine and a lot of his support comes from these theories which are dangerous because if you tell parents, for example, that childhood va

instead, they send david axelrod to go out there and take the hatchet to him.hink it plays into everything he is talking about. this is a party that is more concerned with the status quo than they are with the safety and security of black and brown communities. i would also say that we can't forget this is the same cornell west that was ostracized because he wanted to support bernie sanders and push further, because he wanted to have a black state of union to talk about what was rightfully owed to a black community that came out in record numbers to help elect the first black president. for me, it just confirms what many believe the democratic party seemingly has forgotten about, what they claim is their core conviction, trying to make sure they can deliver results to multigenerational poverty and despair. >> i was struck today, the fact that cornell west was a major surrogate for bernie sanders. >> i think he has done quite well given the limitations that we have. i do think that there are ebbs and flows. >> will you be supporting joe biden for re-election? >>

but again david axelrod a smart political operative saying there's a lot of problems on the democratowing that concern. >> lawrence jones show last night he had a gen-z democrat voteer on jamiel jackson had an interesting dream ticket we'll see. watch. >> it would be donald trump as the president and joe manchin as the vice president. i say that because you can call me crazy, but i think joe manchin has played to both sides. i think he really is going to bring the country together which would make a great vice president to bring in a lot of independence where as i think donald trump i've come around to conservative policies even though i'm still a democrat and donald trump can lead us back to a great economy. [laughter] i couldn't call hill crazy but naive. he's played both parties. and been played by both parties. and i don't know that he would be a great -- a great uniter but you know, president biden was supposed to be -- >> he said it is a dream ticket i think he understands that's not going to what because donald trump has learned his lesson he needs to have people in his -- as

david axelrod says this is so disingenuous. you have 19% with ross perot. no labels will be spoilers and highly likely in favor of trump and the republicans. why do they think a third party works against only joe biden? >> they are making a ton of progress right now. they are getting on the ballot in battleground states like arizona. not just in the northeast. we need to pay attention to it. i don't think joe biden needs help lowering the desperate cries of the american people right now. they see the left and what is presented and the right, voters do. they'll be very clear about what will it take to turn around our country, to secure the border, to help the economy? a third party candidate won't scratch that itch. usually these things fizzle out. history has borne that out. i think it will happen again now. what i would watch is how the left is using election law changes like the support for rank choice voting in some states begins to confuse voters about how they are supposed to go about their election process. these two things the rise of rank choice, th

let me david axelrod, in his promotion of this said we want to talk to people who will make campaign reporters smarter. and so we've assembled this terrific group here with that in mind. and i want to start really picture with each of you and sort of in reverse panel discussion mode, start with sort of a lightning round question. and that question is when you hear the phrase that you saw the title of this, how campaigns mobilize their bases, what does that mean to you? campaign mobilizing their base is it will start with patrick and work our way down this way. so the way i would put it is it's not actually all that different from winning over independents, right. i mean, when you're mobilizing your base, it's probably because you have picked a six that let's say a 6040 issue like it's an issue that's not purely divisive, 5050, but it's not 8020 where. well, the other just going to just say, yeah, i agree to that these are winning, that, you know, 90% of your base on board get 60% of the independent and divide the other side but divide the divides the other side in such a way that it

things that the two former party chairman, reince priebus and tom perez, said last night when david axelrod was interviewing them was that elections, national elections are run now on very small margins. and, you know, a few maybe 100,000 people in the country may settle the race with margins that tight. does that mean that covering election officials and what they do is approaching an importance what candidates and campaigns do? because what election officials do can move votes on the margin? i, i guess i've always had faith in my election officials. i know that we have an investigation division in our office to look at any single allegation that comes forward. but they take an oath of office. and i know that in our 159 counties, yes, we have a lot of counties in georgia, in 159 counties that everyone take an oath of office to do their job. don't look left or right. just do your job. walk that line up integrity. and i feel that they do now, sometimes some of them are more competent than others. and that's why it's very distressing for me when people quit early in their career because of th

david axelrod was saying he's worried about cornel west.n dearly. you just have to siphon off a few thousand votes in a few states. do you worry that a progressive african american candidate is going to appeal more to black voters who have been cooling to biden in recent polls? we see it in recent polls, support for biden among african americans dropped from 84% in 2021. it's down to 56% from earlier this year. that's a stunning plunge. >> i'm more concerned, erin, about african american voters and voters in general staying at home than i am about a third-party candidate. it's not ideal. obviously, every single vote will matter. but what we are seeing voters are becoming increasingly unhappy with elected officials. that's not particular to president biden. but, again, i believe that when the policies are focused on in the midst of a campaign when people are reminded of how the american rescue plan fund sent money to cities in atlanta, it stopped us from having to furlough city employees. it allowed us to do things that we otherwise wouldn't

. >> and some of the reporting there in the sand -- cnn these, david axelrod, our colleague has saidlly and in this report, he is concerned. there is no apparatus around, biden is not raising money, a dozen of the staff. it doesn't give the appearance that he is running. and people are looking at the numbers, the fundraising numbers are going to come out and they're go to compare them to the obama numbers and saying he should have raised more money. so there is a great reason to be alarmed. plus he is using the baby stairs on air force one every day now. >> i would take the elevator if i could. david, it's great to see you both. thank you for playing. we really appreciate it. so you want to leave a bag of cocaine somewhere where you will never get caught? how about the white house. that is next. ahhh! icy hot pro starts working instantly. wi two max-strength pain relievers, so you can rise from pain like pro. icy hot pro. somebody would ask her something and she would just walk right past them. she didn't know they were talking to her. i just could not hear. i was hesitant to get the

i mean, david axelrod recently warned that a third party candidate could very well heard president biden'section we, we're talking about ronna mcdaniel not giving a yes or no answer. we're not getting one from joe manchin either. look, a third party candidacy, and he's talking about doing it on the new labels manner banner, identity, you got cornell west talking about doing it with the green party. remember, back in 2020, joe biden won some of these key swing states, i think it was georgia by 11,000 votes, arizona by 10,000 votes. if you get joe manchin on the ballot, if, if you get cornell west on the ballot, and i think most people think that they would draw more votes from biden than they would for trump, and this is, you know, it's a three person race, a four person race, this absolutely hurts joe biden and increases the chances for donald trump, if he's the republican nominee, whoever the republican nominee, of actually taking a lot of those swing states. so, it's a very big deal. and if you're in the biden white house, this has got to scare the heck out of you. >> and have the noncom

to discuss, cnn special correspondent jamie gangel, former senior adviser to president obama, david axelrod, geoff duncan. when you listen to governor desantis, he mentions the new york case and not even the documents -- >> it's pretty disingenuous. he was a j.a.g. in the military. if he had done, for example, with the documents what president trump did, he knows he would be in prison, and that's why he doesn't want to discuss that case. everyone is afraid, they're tiptoeing through the minefield because donald trump is still popular within the republican party and they don't want to take it head-on. >> geoff, i mean, why are they tiptoeing through the minefield? >> one of the most damaging effects donald trump has had on our party he taught us to mistake honesty for weakness and that's a fatal flaw. you watch these folks try to step up to the line and think they're playing cute orsome political adviser is in their ear about the next fund-raising, look, there is no other place to be on january 6th than it was wrong. there's no other place to be on the 2020 election than it was fair and lega

david axelrod, former adviser to president obama joins me now.s in the republican field, you tweeted in 2016 the green party played an outsized role in tipping the election to donald trump, now with cornel west as their nominee, they could likely do it again. risky business. your warning is getting a lot of attention. do you think biden recognizes how big of a problem cornel west could be for him? >> i have to assume that he does. but it isn't necessarily up to him. it's up to party leaders across the board. progressive leaders in particular because the great threat from cornel west on the green party line is that he'll attract some progressive voters on that line away from biden. and, look, erin, you look at some of the states last time that tipped the election. arizona was won by 11,000 votes. wisconsin by about 20,000 votes. it doesn't take much to tip an election. so this should be a concern as should the no-labels party, which i think has the capacity to also hurt biden. biden's strategy relies on don't judge me against the almighty, judge m

. >> david axelrod, alyssa farah griffin, thank you for fact-checking that, that was perfect.all of trump's wrath after certifying biden's win in georgia, saying he cannot do what trump did and wanted him to do when it came to overturning the election results, but will he support trump again? >> i've told him exactly what i could and could not do when it came to the election, and i followed the law and constitution. that is a lot bigger than donald trump, a lot bigger than me, a lot bigger than the republican party. >> that exclusive interview with republican governor brian kemp is next. shbacking you could earn on everything with just one card. chase freedom unlimited. so, if you're off the racking... ...or crab cracking, you're cashbacking. cashback on flapjacks, baby backs, or tacos at the taco shack. nah, i'm working on my six pack. switch to a king suite- or book a silent retreat. silent retreat? hold up - yeeerp? i can't talk right now, i'm at a silent retreat. cashback on everything you buy with chase freedom unlimited with no annual fee. how do you cashback? chase. mak

to win this thing according to his team's delegate math, various people in his orbit, including david axelrod, valerie jarrett, sit him down and say, well, who do you think you want to have as vice president? and obama consistently surprised them by saying, i think we should take joe biden fairly seriously. now, it wasn't that surprising terms of the conventional wisdom because he was an you know, he fit all of the boxes that we in washington like to think about. you know, he's a complementary kind of figure. but they all said and i'll get into that in a second, but they all. well, but don't you not like this guy, aren't you? not by him and obama consistently said that he had actually been quite impressed with the way that biden had handled themselves during the primary debates. biden didn't get a lot of time talk during the primary debates because he was not the but he was it was clear to obama and to some of the other candidates that he was substantively there. he really understood the policy. he really cared about it, particularly on economics and foreign policy. so obama said, well, this

former president obama's own campaign manager, david axelrod, acknowledged that west is a real threat a bidenobama's dge the . >> do you think biden>> recognizes how big of a problem cornell west do yo could be for? >> i have to assume that he does, but it isn't necessarily up to him. it's up to party leadersest acrs the board, progressive leaders in particular, because the great threat from cornel west and the green party line is that he'll attract some progressive voter is hes or away from biden, the third party,act the third party is cod be really problematical for him. >>problemati the character, likw west, is a threat. >> imagine what someone like joe manchin could dohaoe. raise manchin raised over $1,000,000 last quarter and is headlining an eventmillion with the biparn group no labels, which itself th organizing an independent presidential campaign. the group says a third partye cl candidate could garner as much as 20% of the vote in 2024. well, manchin himself hasn't ruled out that possibility. >> this is nothing. our party big. no, no, this is nothing about t a third party. t

i saw david axelrod the other day saying the bigger worry for democrats should be the green party candidates another option that's not donald trump, they would consider that are. they would vote republican all the way down the ballot and vote for an independent third-party ticket. we only talk about the suburban moms versus the other ones. but a third-party candidate who is a green candidate who is pulling away from the real core of biden's appeal, which is younger voters or voters of color, even just a thousand of those votes would be detrimental to biden. >> the thing the no labels effort is perpetuating from 2016 is this idea of thelesser of two evils. this is coming up time and time again in our focus groups of swing voters, and it's fascinating. trump's backbaggage is not the as any potential baggage with biden, which is his age. folks say i don't want trump, i don't want biden. when it comes down to the two, i guess biden, because he's the lesser of two evils. >> john huntsman, everybody's favorite republican from several cycles ago. there are democrats in this town still talking to t