ted olsen and david boies who you will remember opposed each other famously in bush v. gore in 2000. but they banded together to take on california's proposition eight. gloria spent some time with both of them. for her reporting at cnn. why do they take this case on now? and why this case? >> those are questions that lots of people were asking at the start of this. including lots of gay groups. because they were saying, ok, you have this conservative legal icon, ted olsen. teaming -- gwen: former solicitor general. >> teaming up with in democrat, david boies, to take on proposition eight. and it's something that the issue of gay marriage has not been successful at the state level if you're for gay marriage. more than 40 states are on the record opposing it. only a handful of states support it. and there were a lot of gay activists saying wo. why are you rushing this? why not let this work its way flew the states? this could really be a problem for us if we lose, it will set us back. that's exactly the point i raised with these two superlawyers. and they said to me, look

. >> david boy one of the torrence who helped of turn prop 8 spoke tonight in san francisco commonwealth club. >> whether he to convince judge walker open the facts and on the law. now we have the facts demonstrated. i think that is a platform that makes it easier to convince judges of the law. >>reporter: as for the stay the appeal could provide a clue about how the high court might rule. legal analyst dean johnson says whoever loses the next round will take the issue of the state immediately to the 9th the circuit court of appeals. the loser at the 9th circuit would then take it to the u.s. supreme court. is in the supreme court is not in session and parties would claim a need for immediate relief. motion goes to the justice assign to the ninth circuit which happens to be anthony ken can i. likely swing vote in the prop 8 case and decision on the stay could give us the first indication of how prop 8 might ultimately be decided. >> pre-skyles open the chopping block in the east day with no state budge net site the governor is talking about cuts and in berkeley that can translate to pre-

on the other hand, the plaintiffs' lawyer, david boies, last night was talking at the commonwealth clubbout how there's this finding there's a fundamental constitutional right being abridged and judges are hesitant to let that go on for a year and a half of appeals very often. so there are a lot of things to weigh. >> i'm interested in what's happening outside the courtroom because it's clear that the battle for hearts and minds is going to continue, particularly outside the rainbow belt. there are celebrations here. but the national organization for marriage is still doing their whistle stop tour, trying to convince people that gay marriage is wrong. in fact, the head of the organization said that the judge's ruling was something like a soviet-style takeover of marriage. so the vitriol still continues. >> yeah. >> what's that going to look like on the ground, though? >> well, i think that there's going to be vitriol all the way up to the supreme court and well beyond whatever the supreme court does from one side or the other. yeah, the national organization for marriage is out there st

democrat david boies, who represented al gore in the 2000 election dispute. and republican ted olson, who argued for george w. bush in that case. but they found common ground in fighting for the rights of gays and lesbians. >> this is what american justice is all about. >> reporter: on the other side, there was anger. and in this election year, republicans see an opening. senator jeff sessions of alabama blasted the ruling. >> it's an example of a judge feeling that they know better than the people what higher and better values are. >> reporter: now, the judge stayed his ruling from going into effect, so, no gay marriages in california just yet. this case is headed for an appeal, diane, no question, all the way to the supreme court. >> i want to show everybody the map right now, terry. as of tonight, there are five states that have already approved same sex marriage. and they're massachusetts, connecticut, iowa, new hampshire, vermont and, of course, washington, d.c., as well. so, tell us what the courts have been saying about this nationwide. >> reporter: we

ted olson versus david boies. ted olson got five votes in bush v. gore. and david boies got four.ne. yeah. >> do they get your vote? >> well, ted olson and david boies, i think are two of the most brilliant lawyers in the country. you know i think that they are a brilliant team obviously. i think they're on the right side of the issue. i see this less as a legal battle, although that's where it will play out, than a battle of really conscience and understanding of the constitution. the 14th amendment, which has been much in the news of late speaks to due process. it speaks to equality under the law. and it seems to me i understand and respect, profoundly those who have objections to homosexual marriage on the basis of their religion. but i think all of us respect the constitution far too much to deny its rights to any american. >> you bring up the constitution. laura schlessinger invoked the constitution when she was leaving her radio show. she said she was doing it to protect her first amendment rights. take a listen. >> i want to regain my first amendment rights. i want to be ab

ted olson and david boies were on opposite sides in 2000 on bush v. gore.sh's side. david boies on gore's side. but here, they have come together to fight against the ban. the judge is expected to rule later today, announcing the future of same-sex marriage here in california. both sides have said, if they lose, they will immediately appeal. rob? vinita? >>> computer hackers have launched a sophisticated, new attack on power plants and factories. their weapon is a malicious computer code that can seize the inner workings of power plants and industrial plants. investigators are calling it the struxnet worm. u.s. power plants are particularly vulnerable because a successful attack could shut down an enticomm >>> six teenagers drowned in shreveport, louisiana, while trying to save another teen who had slipped into deep water. none of those teens, though, and no adults nearby could swim. as ron claiborne reports, that is true of so many african-americans. >> reporter: in the sweltering heat, a group of adults and teenagers went down to the red river to barbecue

. >> david my boy. >> sun rise. >> dear david, don't you think we should begin at the beginning.ry astute observation. >> after 25 years of kcbs, mac flipped a switch. and he made the move to tv. at cbs 5. a critic at the time called it either a flash of genius or an incredible blunder. some of the new technology was a challenge. but dave met it with a smile every time. >> eyewitness news with dave mcelhatton. >> well, we had a fast landing there, didn't we? good evening, i'm dave mcelhatton. >> that was very good, and good humored and he knew he looked funny compared to the typical anchor man, he wasn't a young guy, he wasn't handsome and perky and energetic, he was mcelhatton, slightly avuncular and humorous and never cruel, he was glib but not mean spirited. >> later his news director and general manager was there for some of the biggest moments. >> the bay area is a sadder place whether or not you shared their beliefs. these two leaders had a zest for life. wild jim jones and most of the group may be dead, topping our news this tuesday, the worst disaster? >> here comes the f

. >> reporter: the two lead plaintiff's attorneys in the case, david boies and ted olson, were on oppositeides when they battled over the 2000 presidential race. on wednesday after the gay marriage ruling, they were asked what might happen on appeal. >> the fundamental right to marry is already established by ample supreme court precedent. in light of that, we believe the constitutional violation of depriving gay and lesbian citizens of this fundamental right is very clear and we believe that that will be held by the ninth circuit court of the appeals and the united states supreme court. >> suarez: by contrast, defense lawyers argued the supreme court has never recognized any such right. as a result they called just two witnesses. five states now permit gay marriage-- vermont, new hampshire, massachusetts, iowa, and connecticut. it's also allowed in the district of columbia. maryland and new york recognize same-sex unions from other jurisdictions but do not permit the practice. the california case could become the vehicle that leads to legalization nationwide . for now, no dates set for he

arguing the case against prop. 8 were two high profile attorneys: david boies and ted olson, who were on opposite sides in the "bush verses gore" case that decided the 2000 presidential election. this time they're on the same side. it was defended by evangelicals and other religious and conservative groups who disapprove of gays marrying and raising children. frank shubert was campaign manager for the proposition 8 ballot measure. >> the people are the supreme power in california. they created the judiciary, they created the legislature, and they control the constitution, and they have decided that marriage should be between a man and a woman. >> reporter: it's not clear yet how today's ruling will affect marriage laws across the country. currently, five states plus the district of columbia allow same- sex couples to marry. more than 40 states define marriage as between a man and a woman. kristen perry was one of the plaintiffs who filed suit against proposition 8. here is some of what she had to say. >> today, every american should be proud . for so long, sandy and i and our family h

david boys, the attorney for the anti-prop 8 forces says he expects this to be at the u.s.me court sometime in the fall of next year. other top stories, let's go to theresa garcia. good morning, theresa. >> good morning, terry. in the heart of silicon valley, the top news out of city council is pot, pension and arbitration. what it always boils down to is money. city council approved 7-4 to put three new controversial measures on the november ballot. one measure calls for limiting bindi bindi binding arbitration. it prohibits arbitrators from increasing benefits to police and fire unions by more than the rate of growth and revenues and not allow pay and benefits fits to be raised retroactively. they approved a pension reform measure. that amendment would allow council to lower retirement benefits but only workers hired after 2011. 30 years of service can require with a pension of 90% of their highest year's average salary. the civilian employees get 75%. there's a third revenue-related measure approved for the ballot and that is a medical marijuana business tax. if passed,

. >> david my boy. >> oh, heart, the sunshine pan zsa of the sunset. >> david, don't you think we shouldegin at the beginning. >> a very astute observation allan. >> but after 25 years at kcbs mac flipped the switch and made the move to tv. at cbs5. a critic at the time called it either a flash of genious or an incredible blunder. some of the new technology was a challenge but dave met it with a smile every time. >> eyewitness news, with dave mac ill hat on the. . >> he wasn't a young guy, wasn't handsome, wasn't perqy and energetic, mcelhatton, kill her humorous, occasionally sharp witted but usually when he did was talking about himself, never cruel, he was glib but he i can't say never mean spirited. >> harry fuller produced dave's first television new cast and later as news director and general manager was there for some of the biggest moments. >> the bay area is a sadder place whether or not you shared their beliefs. these two leaders had a zest for life. while jim jones and most of his flock may be dead, tonnage our news the worst disaster in ... >> here comes a footage of the bay

democrat david boies, who represented al gore in the 2000 election dispute.ommon ground in fighting for the rights of gays and lesbians. >> this is what american justice is all about. >> reporter: on the other side, there was anger. and in this election year, republicans see an opening. senator jeff sessions of alabama blasted the ruling. >> it's an example of a judge feeling that they know better than the people what higher and better values are. >> reporter: now, the judge stayed this ruling from going into effect. so, there will be no gay marriages in california yet. this case is headed for an appeal. without question, all the way to the supreme court of the united states. terry moran, abc news, washington. >>> in other news, now. the daughter of former new york city mayor rudy giuliani has been arrested for shoplifting. police say a surveillance camera caught caroline giuliani stealing makeup at a cosmetics store in manhattan. police later released her. she is charged now with petty larceny. >>> some heavy rain in the area around des moines, iowa, gave pe

the boy is now with his mother. >>>-- ktvu's david stevenson live in san san francisco with our report. >> reporter: supporters hope it would encourage would be criminals to think twice before striking. >> people want to feel safe when they are going on public transit. >> reporter: san francisco's council took a look at a plan to fine criminals for loitering while carrying a concealed weapon, in or around the bus zone or vehicle. >> we want to send a message that crime on munni is something that we just don't tolerate. >> reporter: their proposal comes on the wake of three violent attack on munni's three line. tran says her service revealed acts of violence. >> sometimes provoked, people would throw flower seeds at them, or tried to block them from leaving the buses. >> reporter: still, very few cases involved aggressive pursuit or weapon charges. >> statistically the crime is very low. >> i think it's a good idea to increase the fine. >> reporter: personalities for troublemakers should be hiked say riders. >> it's a start, should be more, i don't know. >> reporter: the proposal goes b

. >> reporter: in march after three days of labor kate and david ogg had premature twins -- a girl, emily, and a boy, jamie. born at just 27 weeks, both babies were struggling to breathe, but it looked like jamie wasn't going to make it. >> it is the worst feeling i have ever felt. >> reporter: expecting the worst, the nurse laid jamie on his mother's warm, bare chest, the grief-stricken couple trying to say good-bye. >> i was just devastated. >> reporter: as the couple cuddled the two-pound baby, he started gasping -- a reflex doctors told them to expect. >> almost as soon as the last person left the room he startled, which is the first movement i felt of his arms and legs. i was like, oh, my god, what's going on? >> reporter: in this video, taken by a midwife, jamie began to slowly move, twisting, turning, even grasping kate's hand. how could a baby in such critical condition suddenly be so responsive? >> what's important, it's the warmth the mother provides and the stimulation the baby may have received from hearing the mother's heartrate. those are things that may have helped the baby in terms o

boy was just too good. peter uihlein wins 4 and 2 over david chung. to the pros. cup playoffs, final round of the barclays. on 18, laird would just have to two-putt to win. after his first putt went long, he cannot make the comebacker, three-putt. his wife can't believe it. so laird would head the playoffs with matt kuchar. on the first playoff hole, kuchar punches the 7 iron from the rough. watch this good going to catch the slope. and ends up a few feet from the hole and he would tap in for birdie. and the victory. matt kuchar jumps up to number one in the fedex playoffs. >> find round of the canadian women's open, michelle wie leading wire-to-wire. a chip and drops. shoots a 2-under 70 today to capture her second career lpga victory. >> stay tuned. the world's basketball championships, team u.s.a. playing slovenia. curry, three-ball. his only three points but watch transition. behind the back to russell westbrook. the americans roll again, 99-77. meet brad sill tomorrow. >>> the raiders not only last the game to the 49ers but had two key injuries. jay con campb

. >> reporter: when he was just a boy growing up in point richmond, david vincent whied away the hoursthe plunge. >> the school bus would take us to the plunge. and you learned to swim. >> reporter: the plunge opened in 1926. >> at a time when it odd, there was a culture of going to the water. but it was it was a great place to have family swim, so the whole family would be done. >> reporter: the city condemned the building in 2001, through community outcry and fund raising, the plunge is coming back to life. >> this is another mow sayic tile artist. >> reporter: todd jersey oversaw the renovation called the richmond municipal. >> we rebuilt this historic roof monitor, which was the top of the roof, the part that pops up. >> reporter: tiles line the showers and massive mural by john worely covers a far wall. >> municipal pools were a huge thing, that's why the balconies were here. they would have water performances. >> reporter: as workers poured in, the plunge was a place where all races could come together. >> it was a place where everyone understood that this was a place of peace an

david stevenson, ktvu channel 2 news. >>> uc-berkeley student newspapers are reporting that a victim of a plane crash in pakistan. this boy appears on the facebook page that her fans created. the daily californian reports that the software was a rising software start. she was traveling in her home country of pakistan when the air blue jet crashed of, killing all 152 people on board. >>> a big area musician was killed shortly after 5:00 this morning. police say the driver of the van lost control when he fell asleep and was carrying members of two bay area metal bands, funeral pyre and early grave. the vocalist was killed. police say he was not wearing a seat belt and the driver has been identified by the guitarist justin garcia. he and a passenger were hurt. their injuries are not life- threatening. >>> we are learning more to net about the background of a danville man arrested yesterday after his car hit a bicyclist. the 23-year-old was convicted of drunken driving when he was 17 years old. he is the younger brother of sam and scope giants out fielder nate shierfold. no details are available of the circumstances. they say

boy was too good. the amateur with the long birdie putt. it is the championship four and two over davidhung. >> the play of yos -- the playoffs will start at the 17th. he takes the lead at 13 under. on 18 he needs to two putt from 25 feet. he misses the first one and he can't make the come backer. his fiancee is reconsidering. so he has a sudden death with kutcher. on the first hole he punches a seven out on the rough. he has had 10 top 10 finishes and he is due for a win. watch it go all the way to the back of the green. he will end up a few feet from the hole and kutcher will tap in for birdie and his first victory of the year. on to the canadian women's open michelle -- michelle wie on 15. bottom of the jar. it drops her to 13 under and she shoots a two under 70. wins by three strokes. 377,000 capturing her second career lpga victory. day two of the world basketball championships. usa facing slovenia. curry adding 5* triple. curry in transition and watch this dish. that's too pretty. the americans roll again and they will meet brazil tomorrow. and japan ends the five-year run beating

gathered at kyron's school, releasing balloons with messages of hope that the lost boy might soon be found. priya davidnews, los angeles. >> joining us now from portland is attorney bruce mccain, former captain with the multnomah county sheriff's office. good morning to. >> you good morning, chris. >> let me ask you this, two new search this is weekend. so, what is behind these searches? what are they looking for? >> again, we should not confuse these weekend searches with the ones happening nine weeks ago. the initial search was massive search and rescue looking for presumably lost and alive 7-year-old boy. this is a different type of search. this is a search for forensic evidence of criminal activity. one of the clues of course is going to be the spacing of the searchers themselves, what they're looking for and what we heard in the last report, is that it does look like the grand jury process is starting to squeeze critical information out of people that may have been reluctant to tell investigators without the power of subpoena. >> is that why this friend spicher was able to come forward now with th

boy ] sure! tellour friends hi for me. ♪ [ femalennouncer ] high speed internet from at&t. some call him america's historn... time magazine named him "one of amera's most influential evangelicals." davidarton wants to remind us of our rich, religious and moral history... our forgotten heroes. and our duty to get involv in the politica process. "this is like turning e hearts of the children back to the forefathers. and there's a changehat's on the way. there's a different wind blowing and it will have an impact." his plans for the 828 restoring honor event and the impact he hopes for. on the "700 club"

one trillion lost oh no don't tell david cameron it was done billion dollars we've been doing it for years so knowing that these banks in the u.k. who are the barclays boy lloyds bank i don't want. member we've said six months before the collapse of northern rock bank that it was going to collapse of the reasons it didn't collapse where is your finder's fee where's your bounty that's ten billion large you owe me dave cameron don't make me fly to london right now go down to number ten downing street and have to shake it out of your pockets don't make me do it you owe me oh i see you're going to pretend like you don't know how the banking system works and anyway i continue to continue on this benefit fraud thing chris grayling defends plan to use credit rating agencies to help catch benefit cheats the welfare minister chris grayling in the case saying that if there is a huge mismatch between the way you are living your life and the amount of money you are supposed to be receiving from the state and benefits surely it is right and proper that we should be saying how is that happening how is that happening though i mean this is what we were talking about wi

boy and a lobbyist from virginia. the four others who died include the pilot and friend of stevens from alaska. priya david clemens, cbs news, los angeles. >> couric: and, priya, a lot of attention has been focused today on senator stevens and sean of the ways and means committee and now facing a house ethics trial and possible expulsion. wyatt andrews tells us rangel took to the floor of the house today to defend himself. >> are you going to expel me from this party? >> reporter: in an emotional and raw defense against 13 ethics charges, charles rangel mixed small doses of contrition... >> i apologize for any embarrassment that i've caused. >> reporter: ...into a speech of political defiance... >> fire your best shot in getting rid of me. >> reporter: ...and to any democrat, starting with the president, who hoped rangel would resign to avoid any embarrassing ethic trial just before the election. >> don't leave me swinging in the wind until november. i deserve and demand the right to be heard. >> reporter: rangel said he wants a trial and isn't going anywhere. >> hey, if i was you, i may want know go away,

david stewart. >> there's no charges right now, evidence continues to be collected, including ballistic evidence and video evidence. >> five people were detained saturday night. >>> new developments tonight in the hasani campbell case. the little boy has now been missing for one year. and today investigators had some strong words about the boy's foster father. meanwhile events have been held throughout the day for the missing child. ktvu's rita williams is live tonight in oakland with details for us, rita. >> reporter: heather as you said it's been a year ago today since he disappeared but some folks who care about hasani campbell the most are still clinging to hope. >> i have a hopes that he's still alive. like i said before, that he was kidnapped and dragged out of the shoe store. >> reporter: the little boy's grandmother who's also the mother of hasani's foster mom may be the only one close to the case who still believes the boy is still alive. >> honestly, i think my nephew was murdered. >> reporter: the case is still classified as a missing person's case. but based on the investigation, i feel that hasani campbell fell foul play at the hands of lewis ross and he remains the main person of interest in our case. >> reporter: po

i was intrigued by the attention that was being paid to two white boys in the class, david and rusty, who were at the top of the key, so to speak, in terms of reading. competitive. i ran track. in fact, i won the city meet the last time i competed. i liked the idea of trying to catch these guys. i liked the idea of taking athletic competition over into the academic arena and i'm happy to say that i did catch those guys. but by the time i got to middle school, i was -- again, after going to an all-black school -- and then i was exposed to the most profound teacher, the most profound experience i had. he was an african american english teacher. you talk about making education fund. he was the first one i was ever aware of to have a quiz-bo competition and we had marvin gaye in the background, you know, "what is going on -- "what's going on?" and it was cool to be smart. it was one of the greatest educational experiences i had in school. i look at what i do now and i try to help other -- what i try to help other african-american men in particular with is i look back at whatever kind of j

david curly, abc news. >>> back home, three teenagers were injured after a shooting in north richmond this afternoon. police say multiple shots were fired and a 14-year-old girl along with two boys one 14 and the other 16 years old were hit on market avenue near third street. it happened a little after 4:30 and police say none of the injuries are life-threatening. no word tonight on a motive or suspects. >>> many airlines charge a fee for checked baggage, but spirit airlines is now taking it to the next level. it began charging passengers today for carry ons. spirit is defending its decision saying it prevents passengers from delaying the boarding process by trying to stuff huge carry on bags in the overhead compartment. they are charging $30 for any bag big enough to fit in front of you and $45 who wait until they get to the boarding gate to pay for the oversized carry on bags. >>> there is a new breed of storm chaser out there called lightning chasers. summertime is hunting season for these scientists who are making new discoveries about what is behind each bolt. >> we have seen lightning captured on home video. striking so fast that until now, scientists have known remarkably

she's been married to her husband david for 25 years sxr three boys together.d, david, over there with his blindfold on. keep your blind fiefold on. here's the before picture. let's see the new you. >> simply irresistible. >> are you ready, husband david? take off that blindfold. >> wow! >> look at him light up. >> you look great. >> i'm ready. oh, my god. awesome. >> no wonder those people come to you. >> it's adorable. >> tell us about the hair, louis. >> first of all, she had hair that was very fine. so jennifer gave her a more appropriate haircut for her hair texture and made her hair wider on the side which emphasized the shape of the face. i softened her hair color, which is the contrast between the skin color and hair color was too deep. >> it is beautiful and gorgeous. >> it looks like it's hers and not mine, and that's the key to great-looking hair. >> look at david. david, tell us what you think. >> she looks great, wonderful. >> when is the 25th anniversary. >> in about a week. >> perfect. don't sleep. keep your hair and make up like this. >> she wan

david, thanks. >>> coming up, the unbelievable rescue story of a 5-year-old boy missing overnight in a state park. a frantic 18-hour search turned up nothing. and these father and son heroes save the day. how did they do it? we'll talk to them in a "gma" exclusive. that is coming right up. [ male announcer ] this is america. and this is our cheese. kraft singles. american cheese. only one nation could create it. and that nation is...america. ♪ kraft singles. the american cheese. waking up with morning pain can drain the energy right out of you. fight it with new... it combines extra strength bayer aspirin to treat pain plus an alertness aid to help you get off to a running start. try bayer am the morning pain reliever. who are you?!? i'm your "genie"! weren't you just wishing for something more nutritious to eat? i was! well, you could enjoy the taste of decadent dark chocolate, the crunch of almonds, plus 35% of your daily fiber... plus antioxidants in a kellogg's fiber plus bar. mmmm. right then. two more wishes? i'm good. oh. back to the lamp then. see ya! [ female announcer ] kellogg's fiber p

david buick. explains. this is very very. old. absolutely. and frankly. frankfurt and paris are running around like headless chickens responding to good and bad. at the moment because we've had. and this is really boy. moscow's a prosecutor has the filed eight cnts rushes to discount airlines of your love and sky legs spread when all the claims relate to flight delays back in july sky express went from being among the best reliability to the worst with a fifty percent of home of its flight suffering hold ups however faced with the prospect of losing its license because of the house mileage down all that armor of delayed flights in august. to other news now foreign direct investment to russia fell from eleven percent in the first half of this year according to statistics agency and also that f.d.r. told from six point two to five point four billion dollars overall foreign investment into the country also slips. and retail sells in russia or excel rated in july that's just plain staggering the way they rose up bigger than expected six point six percent year on year that's the best showing says they've ever two thousand and eight cells of salt and sugar posted double digit growth compared with the pre

boy. this guy is out of his mind. i can't deal with him? i guess you have a lot of tolerance. >> let me tell you something, in david's defense, he never turned >> and my thing is hey, whatever you do in your own time, god bless. he can snort, sniff, shoot, as long as he comes to work straight, which he did. >> jimmy: did you see the whole roast of david hasselhoff? it was -- it was -- >> why do people do those roasts? why, why, why would anybody just be totally humiliated? i mean it's like you must -- he must be into s & m or something. into fists and all of that because he was abused. he was totally abused. >> jimmy: that's how those go. you abused him, too, as i recall. >> i did not. >> jimmy: a little bit. >> i only asked him if he pitted himself on a plane again. >> jimmy: my favorite part i thing, is when they showed highlights from his career, and in the highlights you see baywatch, night rider, and then you see him rolling around on the floor with a hamburger in his mouth. >> see that's mean because that was in his private life. we have all been pissed on the floor, all done crap we didn't want people to see, but this poor guy, somebo

david on the democratic line in washington, go ahead. caller: you financial people so discussed me in so many ways. i am an engineer. a former farm boy. i saw this coming years ago. where were you when these mortgage brokers for making these fraudulent loans? why were you honest bankers, which there is not such a thing -- but why were you honest bankers not doing something about it? guest: i think you have raised a very interesting point, which is, there are banks, and then there are non-banks that were making a lot of loans. and even the administration has admitted that a large percentage of those loans that were made were made outside the banking industry. if i understand your frustration about this, -- i understand your frustration about this, and all lot of institutions were providing products that we know today were not the best products. but most of those were made from outside the banking industry. i think we tend to think of the economy as large global banks or wall street banks, and of course, we get vilified throughout that. but there are 8 million banks in this country. most of them are the banks you see on the corner, thos